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Might want to add improved power delivery and reduced thermal throttling to the list of reasons to wait. From the recent info that has come out concerning the 2018 models, Apple screwed up badly by not even testing how the 2018 MacBook Pro i9 performed under a heavy workload. That is the bare minimum of testing I would expect to see done.
The 13" Touch Bar models are not as prone to throttling, but they still suffer from a high price tag and the same screen res introduced in 2012. On top of that, next year's models will be receiving LPDDR4 RAM, and hopefully we'll see 16 GB become standard (with 32 GB as optional). So even with the 13", it's hard to justify getting one now.
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It's clear that Cupertino only had one thing in mind when they released this: make sure we have an i9 ready for the Quarterly Earnings call - we need to beat Amazon to 1T valuation! There is absolutely no doubt in my mind. Definitely rushed out the door on a wing and prayer. I'm just sorry for the poor suckers in Engineering who probably fell on their swords for what was essentially a poor management priority. And they talk about Courage!?
That said, it is a testament to some previous brilliant minds (no longer there) that the beautiful and functional design lasted this long. It is now showing its age, and I believe this the last cycle where using the same enclosure and molds will be viable. Even though 10nm promises to be less power hungry, something else will always take up the headroom.
I myself am one of those in a pickle: I love macOS and I need a 32G laptop for my livelihood (i run multiple VMs - windoze and many linux variants) and bursty complex compilations would definitely benefit from an i9. But even after the numerous patches and eventual fixes, I still wonder whether the stresses on these components will eventually shorten its life expectancy. I tend to keep my equipment for a long time. Reliability and build quality has always been their hallmark (my 10 year old mac pros and macbook pros are still humming even on Mojave betas) . However, now we are talking about equipment failures right out of the box (bad keyboards, hot logic boards, T2 failures etc.) Not what you would expect after shelling out $4000 - the true cost of the machine everyone really wants.
All of this is pushing me into Hackintosh territory and I really hate it.
I would wait 6 months in. By then the early adopters will reveal their full findings whether this was update to take a chance on.
Ultimately, next years model would really be the one to wait for since it will iron some of issues with problems like the T2 chip and other components; and maybe Apple will make some well needed interim changes to the chassis.
If Intel is promising 10nm core i9 late 2019, I don't see how they could deliver anything of significance macbook pro related in 2019. And I'm not sure how reliable the Intel projections are any more. Apple developing its own chips is also fraught with potential risks. The down-side of Apple hitting the 1T valuation is it validates the strategy of building more disposal appliances and focusing on services. The whole macbook X, iMac X and Mac X line is suffering from neglect, and I don't see it getting any better. Dunno, maybe I need to drink more of the cool-aid
Or maybe you just keep waiting and waiting until Apple releases the perfect machine for you. Meanwhile, a lot of people are busy using their new machines and actually getting work done.
I just ordered an i9. I know it has issues and won't reach it's full potential. I'm fine with it. There are real world tests where users are seeing a significant gain over the i7. I'm hoping it meets all my needs. I can't wait anymore. I've been waiting since 2014 for a new machine. I'm tired of reading these forums everyday and hour looking for the perfect machine. It's never going to happen. Deal with the limitations and adapt. When Apple releases a significantly better machine, I'll think about selling my i9 and buying it. Until then, I'll enjoy my machine and get work done.
I think it is more realistic to say, that mbp 2020 will be brand new and simultaneously mature machine.
I think that the one that waits for 2019, if it is possible, it is better to wait for 2020.
Of course if someone needs a new machine right now, he can get it.
But I guess that 2020 mbp is what we really expect.
Opinions?
I think that the one that waits for 2019, if it is possible, it is better to wait for 2020.
Of course if someone needs a new machine right now, he can get it.
But I guess that 2020 mbp is what we really expect.
Opinions?
The trend I see in the many threads like this (People holding out for XXXX), is that they want something on their device that they didn't realize existed previously. Like now, there's a lot of people demanding FaceID, and they will not buy if it doesn't have it... There's obvious reasons why the Mac doesn't have FaceID, but primarily, they didn't know it existed before the iPhone X - now it's another excuse to write a thread about why the new Mac doesn't meet their requirements, and to hold on till the next one.
By the time FaceID is on the Mac, there will be something else even better to use as a reason to not upgrade. Truth be told, I swear 90% of people looking to upgrade do not need to upgrade, they just want something new for Apple reasons, so it is crucial to have the latest and greatest - if you can't have this, then have a reason why you're waiting. That way you can still be 'the best'.
No one is really wringing their hands here and I'm certainly glad you're enjoying your i9 - more power to you. The thing is, some us don't have thousands to blow on a mistake - just a fact of life. If all of this was pocket change, I would be the first one in line - like you. Take a risk, sell (and lose more money and time) if I'm not happy. No problem. I've even indulged like that many times (to Apple's benefit) So let us weigh the pros and cons out loud and air out the logic while we have fun shopping and dreaming...I also need to get "work" done.
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Agreed. I have a relatively new 2017 and wish I had held out another year. I don't want to be in the same position next year if I sell (hassle) and jump on the 2018 band wagon. Apple and Wall Street love it when we play their game.
About the need of upgrading that New_Mac_Smell mentioned:
I prefer having the luxury of choosing the time of upgrading,
rather being forced to upgrade due to a serious/urgent reason.
Recently I lost my mobile phone.
I was forced to buy immediately a new one, simply because I did not had the time/luxury of waiting or getting exactly what I would.
Availability, delivery times etc.
If I had the time, I would have more money for my new phone, more time to search what suits my needs best, etc.
But I didn't.
So I was forced to just buy a new one, not bad, but not what I would really wanted.
So yes, discussing about my new mbp, it is not just for fun.
I enjoy the fact that I am not pressed to just buy one, anything on the market right now.
And besides people that complain all the time 'whatever it takes',
there are people that do have good reasons to expect not just something newer/better, but possibly something 'else', in other direction.
I am not sure that these topics 'waiting for the new model' were so frequent before 2010. And this can tell a lot about the choices the Apple makes.
Yes, they still build incredible machines, but as I have said in the past, I believe that somehow they lose their focus...
I prefer having the luxury of choosing the time of upgrading,
rather being forced to upgrade due to a serious/urgent reason.
Recently I lost my mobile phone.
I was forced to buy immediately a new one, simply because I did not had the time/luxury of waiting or getting exactly what I would.
Availability, delivery times etc.
If I had the time, I would have more money for my new phone, more time to search what suits my needs best, etc.
But I didn't.
So I was forced to just buy a new one, not bad, but not what I would really wanted.
So yes, discussing about my new mbp, it is not just for fun.
I enjoy the fact that I am not pressed to just buy one, anything on the market right now.
And besides people that complain all the time 'whatever it takes',
there are people that do have good reasons to expect not just something newer/better, but possibly something 'else', in other direction.
I am not sure that these topics 'waiting for the new model' were so frequent before 2010. And this can tell a lot about the choices the Apple makes.
Yes, they still build incredible machines, but as I have said in the past, I believe that somehow they lose their focus...
Honestly if I lost my phone now I'd just buy a local cheapo' Android special and wait for a newer model.
These kind of topics weren't popular before 2010, however I think you're looking at it from the wrong angle. Before 2010, Macs were very much a niche product. Now they sell a lot more than they did 10 years ago, so there's a lot more users. They're marketing is also done in a way to make you 'want' a Mac, and so you get a lot of people wanting to want one... There's also other parallels with the continued prevalence of the internet across everything in your life now, and much easier and faster access anywhere you go.
So I think the complaints, concerns, nonsense, has always been the same - when observed as a percentage, relevant to the users available.
TL;DR of course there are more complaints these days, there are a lot more users.
To be clear, the 2018 13" TB Gen 8 i5 does not throttle at all at the claimed CPU level - not ever. Indeed, it has sufficient margin to operate well-above its specified base CPU frequency with all 4 cores running at 100%.
Apple routinely unlocks the Intel cpus so they are able to perform at levels beyond those indicated by the Intel specifications; so they are only limited by the silicone lottery and safe thermal limits.
Bouncing along at a thermal maximum whilst maintaining or exceeding the base frequency is not a performance throttle.
Agreed. The level of complaints cannot be compared in absolute terms: more users = more complaints just doesn't fly. And the nature of the problems has changed. Apple's head of Software Engineering no less has admitted that they have serious quality issues - hence the focus on "fixing bugs" in Mojave. They said it, I didn't.
Those who don't think dysfunctional fragile keyboards, overheating logic boards, and Kernel Panics that warrant complete replacements within a few weeks of purchase (not to mention complete loss of data) , indicate serious quality control issues, just don't get it.
Is it seriously too much to ask a company raking in $15B of profit a quarter, hoarding $300B in cold hard cash and now valued at over 1T, to simply test the products they claim are the best in the world? I for one would like to expect more for my hard earned cash. Others will blindly just buy a shiny new thing Apple showcases every 6 months. To each his/her own.
TL;DR They can and should simply do better.
To back this up - a screenshot of my 2.3GHz i5 operating continuously at or above the 3.0GHz level. It is not often than you get more than what you bargained for:
Honestly, I'm beginning to care less and less each year about refresh cycles. I'll just buy what I want to buy when I want it. There's always something new around the corner.
For my uses, current devices are more than powerful enough these days. I really won't see any benefit having the latest and greatest processor from Intel.
These guys and their keep waiting threads. Just bought the i9 32GB RAM 1TB and it's the nicest MacBook I've own. Way smoother than the 2015 13" and 15" that I've been using. SSD read and write speeds over 2700MB/s. I can run a bunch of my VMs at the same time with no hiccups. I didn't buy a laptop to constantly run Cinebench and look at numbers that don't mean anything.
Always avoid first gen machines, 2021 is the first (potential) ARM computer I’d personally consider (I’m quite happy to transition to ARM, there’s little compatibility to break for me and Apple will likely be able to deliver performance updates beyond what intel are currently offering). I’m not willing to wait that long to upgrade though so it’s the 2019 or a windows laptop next year (likely XPS 15, Spectre X360 or surface book 15 (though like the MacBook I’m not enamoured with what they’re asking for the surface book, and what they’re offering for that money so more likely one of the other two)).
Assuming Apple stick to 4 year design cycles I’m probably going for the last of each (2019, 2023...) from now on where I opt for the MacBook Pro. Assuming I go for a windows laptop, I’ll likely get a cheaper MacBook to keep a toe in the water though. My ideal solution would be Apple producing a 15” retina MacBook for around the same £1,599 they used to sell the pro for. I really don’t need a dGPU on a Mac, I’d be very happy with a 28W cpu and intel iris, 2016 speed SSDs and be able to get a 512GB SSD for more like £1,700 than the £2,700 a machine thus configured would cost at present.
6 months ago I bought a 2015 13" MBP for half of what a new 2017 MBP would have cost. I think I'll wait until 2020 and then buy a 2018 machine, assuming the 2018 keyboards turn out to be OK and the Bridge OS error is fixed. I don't need very high performance -- the one thing that makes me want the 2018 is the True Tone display.
- True Tone display
- better keyboard (quieter or not, the thing I am interested in is the supposedly better spring-back action)
- better sounding speakers
- two more cores across the spectrum
These are all the things that I desire to have, but do not need to have. 2016 MBP here.
If you bought a 2015 just 6 months ago, and from your reasoning you seem to know what you need, you are saving a lot of money while staying reasonably updated with the technology. Great going!
I guess Cool11 is forgetting all the issues with first revs:
2012 had issues with the lamination peeling - even with the 2015 I got burned by this. There was also some battery swelling issues if I remember correctly.
2016 had its own issues with graphical glitches, battery life and of course the keyboard.
2020 will be no different and the idea year to upgrade in that generation will likely be 2024.
I prefer to get in on the last generation of this batch where I know its well tested and proven design.