Why is Big Sur so ugly?

[nsklaus]

i'm still testing around, i wanted to report this screenshot below.
it's using some of the mojave settings. i got the gradient and the white background around the buttons back.
(works also with safari toolbar)
sadly no progress on toolbar height itself.

 

[fisherking]

It's all been down hill since here:

Look at those nice tangible buttons and windows. You know what you were doing back then. Not like now.

shouldn't there be a sarcastic emoji at the end of this post? that can't be serious....

 

[Digital Dude]

This is all my option, but I've heard some hate on Big Sur here and there as well. My question is, why does Apple want to make Mac OS into IOS like seriously; I've always liked how good and "professional" OS X looked, but now it just looks so unprofessional...

And when Apple pushes this update, do you think it is safe for me to stay on Catalina?

Like I just got my new Mac, and I see this...

Despite Tim Cook's rhetoric, the goal of merging the macOS into iOS has been ongoing for years. As for the look of Big Sur, I have no opinion because I'm not real crazy about the mac os anymore. In the decades I've been with Apple, the last couple of years have been horrible in unresolved bugs. I have come to like the appearance of windows more than the macOS. Yes, warts and all.

Notwithstanding, I just received the 12MAX and still waiting on the AW6, so clearly, I'm still in, just not as enthusiastic as I used to be. The Apple Watch and Homepods have kept me in the game, due to failing health. I believe the future is wearables, and those things we carry around in our hands will become obsolete.

 

[nickdalzell1]

Yeah, I don't think a watch will replace the phone anytime soon. It was a pipe dream that tablets would replace laptops (a move Google gambled on and lost, and killing Tablet UI didn't help) But it seems phones are getting bigger and bigger. The iPhone 'mini' is the same size as a Galaxy Note 2. The SE2 is just another 6S (even 6S cases fit!). I actually want the 3.5-4" display to come back in a modern device. But trying to use an Apple (or Galaxy) Watch as a phone? that's going too far! The last time anyone attempted that was when the Samsung Gear S released. It was literally a smartphone on one's wrist. It ended up being too big for a watch, but too small for a phone. Worst of both worlds. Looked pretty on display though.

More likely we'll see phones and tablets converge. That's already happening (and will bring back parachute pants as well for them requiring quite large pockets)

 

[CasualFanboy]

@All,
was there any audacious endeavour undertaken with testing theme-engine so far ?

I looked at the stuff you posted a few days ago. I like the fact that you dug into this and figured out how to make some changes, and posted detailed instructions on how to do it. It's encouraging to know that this can be done. But....

Weighing the difference against the amount of effort it took to get there, it's not something I would even bother with. Just like every other "unsupported" change I've ever made on Apple products, I have no doubt my efforts will be clobbered by the next (increasingly frequent) patch. Even worse, nagging little things will start to behave unexpectedly as a result of off-path changes.

Over time, the "just works" nature of Apple has declined, but it's still better than any others out there. If I take away that benefit, Apple has nothing left to offer me. I hate the new theme, I hate the obsession with trying to lock everything into these SaaS/subscription arrangements.

Plus, I'm not even using Big Sur, and may never use it, depending on my next purchase decision...

 

[CasualFanboy]

Yeah, I don't think a watch will replace the phone anytime soon. It was a pipe dream that tablets would replace laptops...

Well they won't work as hard to force this "trend" upon their customers, at least not as intensely as their phone-is-the-new-desktop hype. The driving effort behind that was getting everyone on a perpetual subscription/rental model. The old idea that you buy a computer and then you actually own that computer as a physical piece of property is offensive to corporate giants now, because they don't make guaranteed monthly income off of your ownership, and can't include it on a slide at the shareholder presentation.

It's getting to the point at which a macbook is just a delivery device for software on apple servers. Without your subscriptions, you're holding a brick with a keyboard attached to it. And until recently, a very defective keyboard.

 

[fisherking]

Well they won't work as hard to force this "trend" upon their customers, at least not as intensely as their phone-is-the-new-desktop hype. The driving effort behind that was getting everyone on a perpetual subscription/rental model. The old idea that you buy a computer and then you actually own that computer as a physical piece of property is offensive to corporate giants now, because they don't make guaranteed monthly income off of your ownership, and can't include it on a slide at the shareholder presentation.

It's getting to the point at which a macbook is just a delivery device for software on apple servers. Without your subscriptions, you're holding a brick with a keyboard attached to it. And until recently, a very defective keyboard.

not my experience; i get a lot of work done on my macs. and, all things considered, am still rocking a 2016 12" macbook... with that keyboard, and no issues (except the usb C cable/port is a little loose).

 

[lupinglade]

shouldn't there be a sarcastic emoji at the end of this post? that can't be serious....

No. Consistency was very good in those versions. We have a big problem with consistent behaviour and appearance now, making the Mac harder to use and less of an enjoyable experience. They have a good point. It might not look very modern, but there is a far better execution with much more attention to detail (disregarding the customized clock font).

I think macOS is in a transitionary period, hopefully eventually some or all of these things will get ironed out.

 

[CasualFanboy]

not my experience; i get a lot of work done on my macs. and, all things considered, am still rocking a 2016 12" macbook... with that keyboard, and no issues (except the usb C cable/port is a little loose).

I have a Macbook Pro 2016 15", and I get all my work done on mine too. It's still a good laptop, and I still like it. But the trend since then has been clear and linear toward complete lock-down and more dependence on pings to/from Apple servers. Some of this activity is deliberately opaque and obscure. The Big Sur rollout disaster made a lot of people realize that virtually every application they run must be approved by Apple. Some people are just fine or even happy with this, and that's great. But I don't like it at all. There's no doubt in my mind that Apple already has, or will soon have, the ability to flip a switch that can brick any Apple-connected computer without warning.

Edit: To clarify, they have or will have the ability to brick any new computer, not necessarily all the older models.

 

[Oz.]

Why this BIG title bars?

On terminal 🤮🤦‍♂️

Safari title bar is double in Big Sur

I have to set the resolution to maximum to make it look acceptable

MBP 13

wtf!!!

 

[fisherking]

No. Consistency was very good in those versions. We have a big problem with consistent behaviour and appearance now, making the Mac harder to use and less of an enjoyable experience. They have a good point. It might not look very modern, but there is a far better execution with much more attention to detail (disregarding the customized clock font).

I think macOS is in a transitionary period, hopefully eventually some or all of these things will get ironed out.

when you say 'we have a big problem', am assuming you're referring to the 9 other people on this forum who are whining about the same things. i've said this before (& will happily say it again): most macusers just use their macs, they don't sweat the minute details ("i can't work! the menubar spacing is killing me!")

also, fwiw, anyone who pines for os9 (or whatever that picture is of), should find an old mac, and enjoy os9; i fully support that.

 

[lupinglade]

when you say 'we have a big problem', am assuming you're referring to the 9 other people on this forum who are whining about the same things. i've said this before (& will happily say it again): most macusers just use their macs, they don't sweat the minute details ("i can't work! the menubar spacing is killing me!")

Here we go again... please, find something else to do. Some of us have professions related to the field and for us, it matters enough to mention it. Stop trolling this thread.

 

[fisherking]

Here we go again... please, find something else to do. Some of us have professions related to the field and for us, it matters enough to mention it. Stop trolling this thread.

fyi, that's my quote, not macsplusmacs. and am not trolling anything, am just making the point i want to make... just as you're doing. isn't that how this works?

also, can you clarify this? what does it mean: "Some of us have professions related to the field"

 

[cosmichobo]

shouldn't there be a sarcastic emoji at the end of this post? that can't be serious....

7.5.3 probably wasn’t the pinnacle... but I lament the loss of an OS that was styled to represent a physical interface. Early OSX still achieved that goal, so, maybe this:

Mac OS X Leopard - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[fisherking]

7.5.3 probably wasn’t the pinnacle... but I lament the loss of an OS that was styled to represent a physical interface. Early OSX still achieved that goal, so, maybe this:

Mac OS X Leopard - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

how many years have you been lamenting that loss?

i for one am glad the world moves forward, not backwards. and if i don't love every single thing about every new OS, i don't have to... there are millions of macusers, we all want different things. so i am content when i can do my real work, and i can, comfortably, on os 11.

 

[UncleMac]

But the trend since then has been clear and linear toward complete lock-down and more dependence on pings to/from Apple servers. Some of this activity is deliberately opaque and obscure. The Big Sur rollout disaster made a lot of people realize that virtually every application they run must be approved by Apple. Some people are just fine or even happy with this, and that's great. But I don't like it at all. There's no doubt in my mind that Apple already has, or will soon have, the ability to flip a switch that can brick any Apple-connected computer without warning.

Edit: To clarify, they have or will have the ability to brick any new computer, not necessarily all the older models.

Haha, what?

 

[nsklaus]

@fisherking
people in here are discussing the problems about the new design, and eventually how to overcome them. you coming in here and telling how much you like the new design at every turn doesn't help and won't change people's mind simply because you tell them you find it alright. you're trolling because what you're doing is like coming to a vegetarian meeting with your macdonald's lunch, telling everyone how nice meat is. here we're not discussing how good the new design is. you need to find a topic where people share their joy over the new design. there you will be participating to the discussion. here you just mock and disrupt instead of contributing. can you understand this please ?

 

[fisherking]

@fisherking
people in here are discussing the problems about the new design, and eventually how to overcome them. you coming in here and telling how much you like the new design at every turn doesn't help and won't change people's mind simply because you tell them you find it alright. you're trolling because what you're doing is like coming to a vegetarian meeting with your macdonald's lunch, telling everyone how nice meat is. here we're not discussing how good the new design is. you need to find a topic where people share their joy over the new design. there you will be participating to the discussion. here you just mock and disrupt instead of contributing. can you understand this please ?

vegetarian most of my life (btw).

the topic is 'why is big sur so ugly', and i don't think it is... and am voicing my opinion. this isn't a forum where everyone has one point-of-view, and we all pat each other on the back in agreement.

i don't think there are problems with the new design, but that's just me. and am happy to discuss it.

meanwhile, (as far as i know), you're not in charge here, and can't order me about.

please, don't be afraid of a contrary point-of-view.

 

[cosmichobo]

how many years have you been lamenting that loss?

i for one am glad the world moves forward, not backwards. and if i don't love every single thing about every new OS, i don't have to... there are millions of macusers, we all want different things. so i am content when i can do my real work, and i can, comfortably, on os 11.

What's wrong with wanting an interface that gives you some semblance of tactility? Human beings have been touching things for a bloody long time...

 

[colourfastt]

7.5.3 probably wasn’t the pinnacle... but I lament the loss of an OS that was styled to represent a physical interface. Early OSX still achieved that goal, so, maybe this:

Mac OS X Leopard - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Leopard was the first version of OS X I used, and still love the look of "Metal". I certainly wouldn't be opposed to going back to the look of Leopard—and please, PLEASE bring back skeuomorphism with it.

 

[nsklaus]

@fiisherking
i'm not afraid of hearing a different opinion. and what you did was fine for the first few times you did it.
we've heard your opinion. and you have the right to express it, that's fine. but what you do is different than just that. you're mocking, and trying to enforce your view with spamming over and over again that we're wrong, that new design is fine and you like it. ok we heard you. now unless you have something to contribute could you please stop harassing the topic ?

 

[fisherking]

@fiisherking
i'm not afraid of hearing a different opinion. and what you did was fine for the first few times you did it.
we're heard your opinion. and you have the right to express it, that's fine. but what you do is different than just that. you're mocking, and trying to enforce your view with spamming over and over again that we're wrong, that new design is fine and you like it. ok we heard you. now unless you have something to contribute could you please stop harassing the topic ?

your post above is harassment. why are you trying to stop me from participating?

if you don't like my thoughts, click on my username on the left and click on 'ignore'. meanwhile, let's get back to the topic itself.

 

[nsklaus]

that's much better that way indeed. i didn't know it was possible. and it works well. you and all your posts just disappeared. that's very nice. your best contribution to the discussion so far. i think i must say, thank you fisherking.

 

[CasualFanboy]

if you don't like my thoughts

Many of your "opinions" are laced with indirect insults. And that's fine with me, personally; I'm not a fan of your snarky passive-aggressive style, but confrontation is becoming a phobia for many people, and it's something I've always been ok with. I encourage you to keep posting if that's what you want to do.

But I do want to point out the dishonesty when you say "hey guys what's wrong lol I'm just giving my opinion."

 

[fisherking]

Many of your "opinions" are laced with indirect insults. And that's fine with me, personally; I'm not a fan of your snarky passive-aggressive style, but confrontation is becoming a phobia for many people, and it's something I've always been ok with. I encourage you to keep posting if that's what you want to do.

But I do want to point out the dishonesty when you say "hey guys what's wrong lol I'm just giving my opinion."

this seems like a pretty direct insult. but will tone done the 'indirect insults', and endeavor to focus on the topic at hand. i will voice my opinions...