Why should I "upgrade" to Sierra?

[tomjleeds]

KALLT wrote:
"Snow Leopard is ancient and has numerous, documented, critical security problems. You are just one of many known exploits away of having your data compromised"

Frankly, I couldn't care less, and I really mean that.

I've been using Macs since 1987, have never run any kind of virus or security or other protection (with the exception of something called "Disinfectant" back in the classic Mac days), and never had ANY infections, security compromises, etc, of ANY kind, ever.

There's really no data on the old MacBook of any consequence to be compromised.

My "main Mac" (late 2012 Mini) still uses 10.8.5. Excellent OS and runs fast and clean.
No problems with that one, either.

I refuse to become a slave to Apple's upgrade policies, being dragged along with the threat that using older versions of the OS leaves one "unsafe" in some miniscule way.

I use the versions of the OS that I like best, and don't worry about it.

I suppose everything could go bonkers tomorrow.
If that happens, then I'll start worrying...

I'm sorry but this is just nonsense.

How do you know you've never had any infections? We are long past the days when a "virus" pops things up on your computer saying "hahahaha I'm deleting all your files". These days they just sit there and do stuff in the background - like remembering the passwords you type in, or attacking remote systems as part of a botnet.

You're clearly very defensive about this whole thing, and I don't really understand why. It's not a "threat" that your machine is at risk, it's a fact. If you choose to ignore that, fine, but don't expect anyone who understands the situation to think you're anything other than a fool.

 

[kattskrall]

So the two main points of upgrading is security and tabs then I guess

 

[Partron22]

So the two main points of upgrading is security and tabs then I guess

That's about right.

 

[Fishrrman]

tomjleeds wrote:
"How do you know you've never had any infections?"

How would one know, without running some kind of anti-viral software?
I don't bother with anti-virus software.
(I do run Malware Bytes frequently to check for adware -- none yet)

All I can tell you is this:
My Macs might be infected (beyond my knowledge at the moment).
If so, my sincere reply is "keep those 'infections' coming, because my Macs run GREAT with them!".
All of my Macs run fast, smooth, and clean, with the "chosen OS's" that are on them. (Including a 2006-vintage iMac with 10.7.5).

I will continue to use the OS's that I -choose to use-, and that work best for my needs.

That's not "defensive".
It represents a conscious decision, based on 29 years' worth of Mac experience.

That is all...

 

[bent christian]

which suggests that 10.12 is really just 10.2 with years of new features; all facade, nothing changed underneath...

No, that couldn't be true. Apple has talked about numerous improvements over the years. Nothing that means anything to me in 10.12.
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Wow. You must be joking. There is literally a whole website dedicated to outlining improvements to frameworks and core API's. Metal in Sierra is like Metal 2.0 and is night and day.

https://developer.apple.com/library/content/releasenotes/MacOSX/WhatsNewInOSX/Articles/OSXv10.html

Those "improvements" are clearly going well, as evidenced by all the trouble people are having with 10.12 (browse the Sierra subform). An "improvement" is only an improvement if it enhances the experience in some way.

No thanks.

 

[fisherking]

ha, hysterical, as if nothing under the hood matters, and it's worth skipping new OS's because they only have new eye candy. meanwhile, in the real world, there is always work going on under the hood. 10.12 is NOT 10.2, nor, for that matter, is it 10.11. ad infinitum.

 

[bent christian]

ha, hysterical, as if nothing under the hood matters, and it's worth skipping new OS's because they only have new eye candy. meanwhile, in the real world, there is always work going on under the hood. 10.12 is NOT 10.2, nor, for that matter, is it 10.11. ad infinitum.

Changes ≠ Improvements

 

[tomjleeds]

tomjleeds wrote:
"How do you know you've never had any infections?"

How would one know, without running some kind of anti-viral software?
I don't bother with anti-virus software.
(I do run Malware Bytes frequently to check for adware -- none yet)

All I can tell you is this:
My Macs might be infected (beyond my knowledge at the moment).
If so, my sincere reply is "keep those 'infections' coming, because my Macs run GREAT with them!".
All of my Macs run fast, smooth, and clean, with the "chosen OS's" that are on them. (Including a 2006-vintage iMac with 10.7.5).

I will continue to use the OS's that I -choose to use-, and that work best for my needs.

That's not "defensive".
It represents a conscious decision, based on 29 years' worth of Mac experience.

That is all...

OK.

I don't think you've really grasped the scale of the problem, the risks you're choosing to expose yourself to, or the possible consequences.

However, if you insist on being so naive, you are of course free to use whatever you want.

 

[jpn]

There are only 2 reasons to continuously upgrade.

1. Apple's eco system. If you don't have multiple devices then this is moot.

2. Security. Best in world.

3rd reason used to be "it just works" but this is not true anymore.

4th reason used to be best in class design. Still great. But others have copied and or caught up.

Cheers.

 

[fisherking]

i think, really... they're our devices, we can do what we want. i like staying up-to-date; i work with someone who stays on 10.6.8 because her experience works for her, and she sees no reason to change (yet).

ultimately... who cares? use whatever OS, hardware you want. if you upgrade, some things may break, or also need updating. if you don't, you may find something no longer works, or is supported.

we make choices, and deal with the consequences. whatever works...

 

[Feenician]

Those "improvements" are clearly going well, as evidenced by all the trouble people are having with 10.12 (browse the Sierra subform).

Are you under the impression that prior releases were bug-free havens of computing? Especially at release time?

 

[bent christian]

Are you under the impression that prior releases were bug-free havens of computing? Especially at release time?

No. Finish out that quote and you might understand.

 

[Feenician]

No. Finish out that quote and you might understand.

The second sentence is barely related to the first. Perhaps you can qualify it by listing some of the "improvements" that offend you so.

 

[fisherking]

it's the same cycle since forever; a new OS version comes, things break, things change. there's good, there's not-so-good. eventually things calm down (bug fixes etc from apple and/or third parties).

a year later, the cycle repeats. and some people are happy, some are not. etc etc

update, or don't. life still goes on....

 

[anzio]

Those "improvements" are clearly going well, as evidenced by all the trouble people are having with 10.12 (browse the Sierra subform). An "improvement" is only an improvement if it enhances the experience in some way.

No thanks.

I don't judge the stability and reliability of software based solely on the forums where the vocal minority tend to be the only ones heard. It's been rock solid for me. It's tripled my FPS in games over El Capitan (Metal improvements), and polished the operating system.

The improvements are absolutely improvements. Are there some experiencing issues? I don't doubt it, but I could easily show you as many supposed "problems" with El Capitan, or any other piece of software if I only looked at the vocal minority. We have updated our Mac systems (6 or so) and Sierra is massively superior thanks to the improvements and little tweaks; however, we didn't run over to the Sierra sub-forum to let everyone else know (but if some little thing went wrong, we'd likely be on there right now asking for advice and posting about our experience).

 

[Glenny2lappies]

So the two main points of upgrading is security and tabs then I guess

And the Tabs are all messed up too.

Example: <cmd>K to connect to a network share. Normally opens a new Finder window, now opens in a tab. Which means another step to separate that tab from the finder window so I can copy files from one location to another.

It's like Apple don't use this stuff any more.

Arguably the security patches are available to previous OS versions for a while. So even the security argument is flawed.

I'm yet to find *anything* useful in Sierra.

And it's slower. Can't put my finger on it, but it just seems slower: login takes 2 seconds, calendar freezes as you create a new appointment, mail's frozen a few times.

 

[michael2]

This is why, maybe.
My favourite is "Folders on TOP" within Finder and fast renaming on files now working again without jumping.

+++ Finder Folders on Top ( MUST HAVE )
8:10 Setup "Keep folders on top when sorting by name" ( MUST HAVE )

+++ Finder fast renaming files again ( MUST HAVE )
9:40 Finder does not JUMP anymore after renaming a file. But you have to be VERY FAST ! Or use mouse cursor.

****** Try this Renamer utility ******
https://itunes.apple.com/ch/app/renam...
**************************************

 

[grcar]

Can someone explain why I should upgrade from el capitan?

Only people looking for trouble would upgrade this early. Apple in recent years has not had a good reputation for bullet proof anything.

 

[mildocjr]

I did and the only thing I can honestly say was worth it was that it's more stable than el capitan in my own experience. It's still really early for the new OS, and my only complaint is that it killed Sylenth1, but that's a developer issue and I haven't been doing audio stuff recently. You are more than welcome to wait, it's not like you have to upgrade.
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Windows XP runs fast and clean too, but that does not mean that there is no room for improvement. Try a decent web browser on El Capitan, the speed and performance differences are beyond comparison. Whatever perceived speed gains an older system may have, it is also increasingly inefficient for modern computing and today’s networking conditions.

I'm a little cautious about judging an OS based on a Web Browser, a browser is typically limited by the network before it's limited by the OS (unless it's IE with plug-ins).

There are ways to judge an OS, stability is probably the most important and it's why XP was king until 7 replaced it, but only after XP support was discontinued. Based on Apple, the last great OS was Snow Leopard. El Capitan was the hopeful saving grace that wasn't, but so far Sierra has been pretty darn good to me with the exception of a possible memory leak in CacheDeleteExtension which was using a whopping 1.4 GB of RAM yesterday and none of it was purge-able. This is one of those daemons that runs to clear out the cache items Apple talked about during the introductory keynote for Sierra. I believe it could be fixable with a minor update which is why I don't let it count against Snow Leopard. Just have to remember that even SL had it's issues before 10.6.1.

 

[KALLT]

I'm a little cautious about judging an OS based on a Web Browser, a browser is typically limited by the network before it's limited by the OS (unless it's IE with plug-ins).

I was not judging an operating system by its browser. It was merely an illustration that things are actually changing and improved upon, even though they are not features as such. I find it terribly annoying that people judge an OS by its end-user features alone. It is not as though Apple engineers are twiddling their thumbs, add a couple of features to their prominent applications and call it a day. It is a living project and all of its components are constantly updated. Even the kernel has a new version with seemingly every major update.

 

[mildocjr]

I find it terribly annoying that people judge an OS by its end-user features alone.

Amen

 

[Lankyman]

That's assuming that the new OS doesnt break anything. For me it breaks karabiner (keyboard shortcuts) so that's a no go. CS6 also seems to have some issues as with Office 2016 and possibly 2011 so im gonna sit on 10.11.6. Like OP said, the only "new feature" worthwhile TO ME is the tabs.

This is the first time I haven't updated and TBH I don't think I'm going to bother either at this point. The thing is it's not just about updating your Mac but all the third party apps that suddenly start sending you messages that your programme is no longer compatible with xxxxOS.

Parallels is a case in point. If I upgrade then my W10 VM will no longer work unless I cough up yet more cash. Well thanks but no thanks, but I'm not keep falling for that one.

 

[iDemiurge]

Sorry if I sound ignorant. But as far as I'm aware Yosemite and El Capitan are still supported and getting security updates. I understand you're out in the cold if you stay on Mavericks or on any release prior to that. But what are those security improvements you'd only get by updating to Sierra?

 

[KALLT]

Sorry if I sound ignorant. But as far as I'm aware Yosemite and El Capitan are still supported and getting security updates. I understand you're out in the cold if you stay on Mavericks or on any release prior to that. But what are those security improvements you'd only get by updating to Sierra?

10.12.0 alone fixed a few dozen vulnerabilities, none of which have been addressed in a security update for El Capitan yet. We do not know for sure when the next security update is released and how many vulnerabilities Apple will then fix.

Sierra also makes two fairly significant improvements to Gatekeeper, sudo has finally been recompiled with a stricter configuration (some weaknesses existed since 10.0!) and several directory permissions have been restricted (e.g. the workaround Dropbox used to allow itself to control the computer). Sierra also disables support for older cipher suites with known security problems.

These are just the things Apple documented so far. The Security Guide has not been updated yet and the source code for Sierra’s Darwin and other components has not been made available yet.

 

[Glenny2lappies]

This is why, maybe.
My favourite is "Folders on TOP" within Finder and fast renaming on files now working again without jumping.

+++ Finder Folders on Top ( MUST HAVE )
8:10 Setup "Keep folders on top when sorting by name" ( MUST HAVE )

Just like Windows...