Why should I "upgrade" to Sierra?

[vexorg]

The real problem with upgrading is that you have no idea what will work or not work after the upgrade. And the downgrade can be a nightmare or near impossible to do. It's pretty much a one way door with apple, they have made that very clear.

El Capitan, Yosemite, Mavericks all had bad upgrade report with a lot of serious bugs for some users, it makes you very wary on an upgrade. For the average home user or light user then it doesn't matter so much. If it's your main work machine, then that can cripple your job and productivity. It's not a light decision to upgrade.

 

[kattskrall]

I find it terribly annoying that people judge an OS by its end-user features alone.

Amen

It's hard to judge it by anything else since that's the only thing they show to the public..?

 

[fisherking]

It's hard to judge it by anything else since that's the only thing they show to the public..?

yes, and now you have new information; with every new version of the OS, there are under the hood changes, fixes, enhancements. for me, that is the main reason to upgrade (or not). most people don't know the details of how their car works, they just want to drive somewhere; so, for the 'public', siri on the mac is more valuable to know about than changes they can't touch, see...

 

[aevan]

Maybe i should have made the post more general. I'm having a hard time coming up why anyone would want to upgrade, but then again I'm looking at the world from my perspective

Not everyone is the same. Your arguments seem legit, but also, it would be like me saying: I don't see the point of gasoline, since I don't own a car. For some Sierra will be more useful than others. I like using the new copy-paste feature, for example, as I have multiple Apple devices that I use, often at the same time. YMMV.

But that's just the thing - Apple is much better when you're "all in" and use multiple devices and services across the ecosystem. They will keep pushing in this direction - it's good for most of their users, and it's good for their business. Google is trying to do the same, for example. I completely understand why this isn't beneficial to you, but you have to understand that for many customers, this is exactly what we want.

Either way, there are no downsides to Sierra that I know of, there are probably some under-the-hood improvements, and it's free. There's no reason to skip the update, the way I see it. Maybe the next version brings something you'll enjoy

 

[Weaselboy]

And the downgrade can be a nightmare or near impossible to do.

I'm not sure what you have read or why you think that, but all you do is a command-r boot to recovery, click restore and point to your Time Machine backup from before you did the upgrade... then sip a beer while it restores back to exactly how things were.

 

[Ebenezum]

Either way, there are no downsides to Sierra that I know of, there are probably some under-the-hood improvements, and it's free. There's no reason to skip the update, the way I see it. Maybe the next version brings something you'll enjoy

At the moment PDFKit seems very buggy, I noticed similar problems as mentioned in this Apple discussion: https://discussions.apple.com/message/30717269#30717269

Problems are also discussed in Apple Developer mailing list: http://lists.apple.com/archives/cocoa-dev/2016/Oct/msg00011.html

Furthermore Mail is very slow and Spotlight indexing is buggy.

I'm not saying skipping Sierra but neither I would recommend installing it at this point.

I'm not sure what you have read or why you think that, but all you do is a command-r boot to recovery, click restore and point to your Time Machine backup from before you did the upgrade... then sip a beer while it restores back to exactly how things were.

That is the theory but unfortunately Time Machine restore won't always work if the drive contains newer OS than the one being restored...

 

[fisherking]

At the moment PDFKit seems very buggy, I noticed similar problems as mentioned in this Apple discussion: https://discussions.apple.com/message/30717269#30717269

Problems are also discussed in Apple Developer mailing list: http://lists.apple.com/archives/cocoa-dev/2016/Oct/msg00011.html

Furthermore Mail is very slow and Spotlight indexing is buggy.

I'm not saying skipping Sierra but neither I would recommend installing it at this point.



That is the theory but unfortunately Time Machine restore won't always work if the drive contains newer OS than the one being restored...

not everyone has the same issues (ie mail, spotlight... all good here). EVERY new version of the OS has issues; sierra is hardly unique in that. that's what these forums are good for (along with, of course, incremental OS updates).

it's pretty funny, but with each new version of the OS, the same exact thing happens: some people are happy, some are not. people warn of issues (sometimes universal, but mostly not); it's an endless (and often entertaining) cycle...

 

[Partron22]

not everyone has the same issues

This.
Photoshop CS5 is working great for me, even though it's listed as incompatible in the Sierra Apps Wiki.
Wifi is running like a champ, as are the dual monitors.
OTOH, mouse zoom is WAY oversensitive. I can live with this.
Haven't found any reason to go back, even temporarily, yet.

 

[mildocjr]

It's hard to judge it by anything else since that's the only thing they show to the public..?

With upgrades come bug fixes, so the next version of macOS is guaranteed to fix bugs in prior versions. Any time new features are implemented you can expect more bugs. Upgrade immediately... up to you, upgrade when most of the bugs have been worked out (typically 10.x.2)... most definitely.

In all respects Lion should have been macOS 11. Lion was the ancestor for everything up until now.

In case you didn't know release cycles can be seen as X.Y.Z. where:

X is a two digit Major version
Y is a single digit Minor version
Z is bug fixes or revisions

Major versions are typically overhauls of the entire system or application, application vendors typically adjust the UI here.
Minor versions typically include feature releases and removals.
Revisions are used to squash bugs/improve overall stability and security.

The parent version (major) can inherit tasks of child versions (minor, revisions) but a child version (minor) cannot inherit from a parent version (major).

So as with a minor release from El Capitan to Sierra, you get the new features + security and stability fixes that existed in El Capitan. As I said above, new features introduce new problems, so until a few revisions come out you are really only benefiting from the security fixes.

 

[RiderX]

The real problem with upgrading is that you have no idea what will work or not work after the upgrade. And the downgrade can be a nightmare or near impossible to do. It's pretty much a one way door with apple, they have made that very clear.

That's why I always have a test installation on a separate partition before I upgrade. Then I test with the apps I use and if everything is working.

On the other hand, with a correct TM backup, downgrading is not difficult at all, just needs some time.

Without TM, you are lost anyway.

 

[kattskrall]

yes, and now you have new information; with every new version of the OS, there are under the hood changes, fixes, enhancements. for me, that is the main reason to upgrade (or not). most people don't know the details of how their car works, they just want to drive somewhere; so, for the 'public', siri on the mac is more valuable to know about than changes they can't touch, see...

Well i find the problem is exacly this, that they treat every apple user like they are completely incompetent when it comes to technicalities. They could have mentioned something about "under the hood" stuff for us who is looking for performance gains and are not interested in gimmicky features and incompetent companions.

It's even more hilarious when google are going down the same path with their "AI". We'll look back to this in 5 years and have a laugh.

 

[fisherking]

Well i find the problem is exacly this, that they treat every apple user like they are completely incompetent when it comes to technicalities. They could have mentioned something about "under the hood" stuff for us who is looking for performance gains and are not interested in gimmicky features and incompetent companions.

It's even more hilarious when google are going down the same path with their "AI". We'll look back to this in 5 years and have a laugh.

they're a consumer business, selling to... consumers. if you want more info, you can check the developer's forums, forums like this. again, most people just want things to work, they don't care about the details. if you do, you can seek out more information... or you can continue to rant on this thread you started.

 

[kattskrall]

they're a consumer business, selling to... consumers. if you want more info, you can check the developer's forums, forums like this. again, most people just want things to work, they don't care about the details. if you do, you can seek out more information... or you can continue to rant on this thread you started.

I don't agree with your generalizations so let's leave it at that.

 

[m4v3r1ck]

I'm not sure what you have read or why you think that, but all you do is a command-r boot to recovery, click restore and point to your Time Machine backup from before you did the upgrade... then sip a beer while it restores back to exactly how things were.

Don't forget there are SuperDuper and Carbon Copy Cloner that will save your bacon when an update goes wrong!

BTW I'm still on 10.10.5 and waiting for a real reason to upgrade!

Cheers

 

[vexorg]

they're a consumer business, selling to... consumers. if you want more info, you can check the developer's forums, forums like this. again, most people just want things to work, they don't care about the details. if you do, you can seek out more information... or you can continue to rant on this thread you started.

I would disagree, when it comes to updates then it's more of a service based business. We have already bought the hardware, and these free upgrades are supposed to keep the customer happy by fixing problems. Aftersales and service is a different way of working.

Every update should have the courtesy of giving you a list of changes, and warnings about what might not work, rather than the message in the top corner "Sierra is available, install now". Breaking apps and functions (like wifi) does matter to most.

 

[tomjleeds]

I would disagree, when it comes to updates then it's more of a service based business. We have already bought the hardware, and these free upgrades are supposed to keep the customer happy by fixing problems. Aftersales and service is a different way of working.

Every update should have the courtesy of giving you a list of changes, and warnings about what might not work, rather than the message in the top corner "Sierra is available, install now". Breaking apps and functions (like wifi) does matter to most.

The list of changes you demand would be rather overwhelming, opaque, and unhelpful for the vast majority of users.

Nonetheless they produce something along those lines, which is really hard to find. I had to Google "macOS Sierra release notes" and click on the first result. Serious detective work here, I'm really proud of myself.

Here's the link. Let me know how helpful you find it.

https://developer.apple.com/library/content/releasenotes/MacOSX/WhatsNewInOSX/Articles/OSXv10.html

By the way, this doesn't include general bug fixes, which would be even more meaningless to the end user.

As for breaking third party apps, there's absolutely no reliable way for Apple to know this stuff. You need to rely on the third party developer for that.

 

[m4v3r1ck]

^^^^ Thanks for sharing, a great read. At least for me! ;-)

Cheers

 

[maflynn]

Every update should have the courtesy of giving you a list of changes, and warnings about what might not work, rather than the message in the top corner "Sierra is available, install now". Breaking apps and functions (like wifi) does matter to most.

No company ever puts the risk of failure on their products, that would be product suicide. I understand what you're getting at, but you can view the release notes as noted.

Many businesses take a wait and see attitude when it comes to upgrading operating systems, and I think that's a sound approach. Wait a few week, or months and see how the new version shakes out. I've not been paying too much attention but it seems Sierra is a fairly solid update.

As for Wifi issues, I think that's been a constant problem for apple, through many releases of OS X.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

worst OS apple have ever released period. if you have a good install of el cap then keep it.

 

[maflynn]

worst OS apple have ever released period. if you have a good install of el cap then keep it.

How so? Can you provide some details.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

sure can, wake from sleep issue, GFX screen issues I never seen before, screen goes all translucent, safari beach balls, slow shut downs, finder slow, video in safari buffer buffer, mail app issues, network printer found but can't use, have to use USB to it now. worst OS apple ever released period. unfinished, laggy, and should never have been released yet.

 

[fisherking]

sure can, wake from sleep issue, GFX screen issues I never seen before, screen goes all translucent, safari beach balls, slow shut downs, finder slow, video in safari buffer buffer, mail app issues, network printer found but can't use, have to use USB to it now. worst OS apple ever released period. unfinished, laggy, and should never have been released yet.

and yet not everyone is having such issues. have you tried reinstalling?
[doublepost=1475933337][/doublepost]

I don't agree with your generalizations so let's leave it at that.

what generalizations? there's only one, about them being a consumer company? about people not caring about what goes on under the hood? ok then....

 

[Matty_TypeR]

It was a clean install from USB so why keep re installing trying to fix it, if the installer has issues then unto apple to fix it. I have now gone back to el cap and all is fine, so hardware issue, no as all works great now, sierra issue, well yes, and on the forum are some of the same issues i was having, i don't need some flakey OSX i want stability, and sierra just isn't.

 

[fisherking]

It was a clean install from USB so why keep re installing trying to fix it, if the installer has issues then unto apple to fix it. I have now gone back to el cap and all is fine, so hardware issue, no as all works great now, sierra issue, well yes, and on the forum are some of the same issues i was having, i don't need some flakey OSX i want stability, and sierra just isn't.

like every new version of the OS, it works well for some, not for others. it's not an issue everyone is having...

 

[KALLT]

It's hard to judge it by anything else since that's the only thing they show to the public..?

Perhaps you should simply tone down your expectations.

OS X is a living project and constantly improved. That is just how it goes. Apple has a rigid update process and expects that users update when possible. This is how OS X has been distributed for many years, especially since major versions are released more frequently. OS X (and Darwin) consist of lots of (small) components, some of which are not even developed by Apple (e.g. many of the Unix tools come from other sources, developer environments, like Ruby or Python are independent projects). Each major version is a snapshot of these components, some of which Apple updates for about one year. After that, the system is stuck with outdated software, even though these components are still updated and improved. Unlike Windows or Linux systems, Apple does not have a separate package manager or update process to update components independently. All they provide are security updates which sometimes involve updating a component, but for the rest you are on your own.