iPhone 15 Pro Max Why so many media spread false information about the iPhone cameras?

[DaveXX]

it’s not worth telling them that “you won’t get good quality that way” because they’re getting the quality they expect)

if everyone tells you that you get an improvement in quality, you expect improved quality. if they would just say “the ip15pm has a different camera setup which allows higher quality photos with higher zoom lengths with the sacrifice on quality with lesser zoom“ everybody would understand it.
And compared to many compact digital cameras the cameras of an iPhone are quiet good. Ofc you cannot compare it to FF cameras but you could never do that with compact digital cameras.
There is no ”scam” or whatever. The market for digital compact cameras collapsed because the differences were to small. There is still a market for professional cameras and there will be a market for professional cameras.
I think itachiSBT explained it very good as well. There are no better or worse cameras on the IP15PM than before but a different setup which can result in much worse images (or better) dependent which focal lengths you use.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

if they would just say “the ip15pm has a different camera setup which allows higher quality photos with higher zoom lengths with the sacrifice on quality with lesser zoom“

People’s eyes would glaze over halfway through and they’d ask “So, I can still take pictures of the grandkids, right?” Because, in the end, that’s all that matters. Anyone knowledgeable about focal lengths, don't need to be explained to by Apple. Everyone else just wants a new phone.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

So to be short, this year the cameras on the iphones were NOT updated in any way with the exception of the tele on the pro max and a slightly bigger sensor on the pro.

The concise and honest way to say this would be “The main difference between the camera system in the 14 Pro and 15 Pro seems to be …” — instead you bolded the part of your statement that isn’t true at all (and which you contradicted by using “with the exception of”). Why are you trying so hard to manipulate others?

Regardless of the scale of differences between the camera systems, the 15 Pro isn’t directed solely at 14 Pro users. For some 14 Pro users (like myself), the entirety of differences are enough to upgrade. For others with iPhones older than the 14 Pro, the differences are even larger and more compelling. The 15 Pro hasn’t even been released yet, and you’re trying hard to downplay the capabilities of the phone. Why?

 

[Torty]

People’s eyes would glaze over halfway through and they’d ask “So, I can still take pictures of the grandkids, right?” Because, in the end, that’s all that matters. Anyone knowledgeable about focal lengths, don't need to be explained to by Apple. Everyone else just wants a new phone.

don’t know if this is that easy. Many dont know anything about photography, me included. I like talking photos.
Like most older people I had in the past a digital cam. If it was able lets say 20x zoom then it could zoom up to 20x.
Now here comes apple and all the media telling us the new improved cam can do 5x optical zoom.
Disappointed that no tech site is explaining the difference but all are hyping the new cam.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

instead you bolded the part of your statement that isn’t true at all (and which you contradicted by using “with the exception of”

I always find it odd when folks do that. “There’s nothing different except for these things that are different!”

 

[jz0309]

There’s nothing really coming out of ANY smartphone camera that doesn’t have a big chunk of processing being done on it. Using zoom levels outside those presets? It’s not adding a whole lot of processing outside of the massive amount being done prior to the zoom level change.

except when you actually use ProRaw though it is my understanding that those are not 100% "raw".
but yes, you statement is true for heic, jpg ...

 

[ItachiSBT]

The concise and honest way to say this would be “The main difference between the camera system in the 14 Pro and 15 Pro seems to be …” — instead you bolded the part of your statement that isn’t true at all (and which you contradicted by using “with the exception of”). Why are you trying so hard to manipulate others?

Regardless of the scale of differences between the camera systems, the 15 Pro isn’t directed solely at 14 Pro users. For some 14 Pro users (like myself), the entirety of differences are enough to upgrade. For others with iPhones older than the 14 Pro, the differences are even larger and more compelling. The 15 Pro hasn’t even been released yet, and you’re trying hard to downplay the capabilities of the phone. Why?

1- I'm not manipulating anyone. On the contrary. Apple (like any other brand, don't get me wrong) presented a bunch of software updates on the main camera that were presented as "camera improvements".
I think that most people will hear that and think it's a different camera. It's not.
Both the ultra wide and the main camera are exactly the same of last year.
On top of that the only element that was changed (the tele) was NOT upgraded. As i tried to explain a different focal lenght IS not an upgrade, it's juts a different focal lenght.
Last year you could shoot at 77, this year you CAN'T shoot at 77 anymore but you can at 120.
Is this better or worse? That depends on what kinda of photos you usually take BUT IT'S NOT an upgrade IN ANY WAY.
So, again, there was NO UPGRADE this year.
No more than choosing black or silver as a color, it's just what you prefer, they are not better or worse than the other one.
If they had maintained the 77 and added the 120, that would be an improvement because you could have 1 more focal lenght to use. But that's not the case.

2-There's no need to realese anything, camera works with physic and there's no need to watch useless reviews, waiting for a random youtuber to show you totally random tests, ecc. It's literally just physics. There's a precise range of things that you can do with a specific setup/hardware and YOU CANNOT do more than that unless the company started to use magic or a physic from a different universe.
Every year reading the specs is more than enough to know how the cameras will be.

Reviews for these things are useful only if you don't know how they work.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

don’t know if this is that easy. Many dont know anything about photography, me included. I like talking photos.
Like most older people I had in the past a digital cam. If it was able lets say 20x zoom then it could zoom up to 20x.
Now here comes apple and all the media telling us the new improved cam can do 5x optical zoom.
Disappointed that no tech site is explaining the difference but all are hyping the new cam.

I think no tech site is explaining the difference because there’s not much way to do so without first trying to educate people about a specific topic that they’ve already shown no interest in (as they don’t already know it) while making an article longer than most want to read. At that point, those that know about focal lengths hardly have to be taught by a tech site, and those that don’t know about focal lengths have gotten by so far without knowing about them and will continue to do so, tech site be darned

 

[Unregistered 4U]

except when you actually use ProRaw though it is my understanding that those are not 100% "raw".
but yes, you statement is true for heic, jpg ...

Nothing through the Camera app is RAW, i.e. data direct from the CCD with no alterations. I believe some apps (Halide I think?) have the ability to capture and present RAW, though.

 

[JamesMcFlyJR]

I'll try to explain everything here, it's not that complicated.

You have 3 cameras on you phone:

- The ultra wide (13mm): this year is exactly the same, no changes.
- The main camera (24mm): this year is exactly the same, no changes. During the presentation apple tried to sell some "changes" as new but no, it's exactly the same camera with some software updates that were ALSO added on the iphone 14.
- The tele (77mm on pro and 120mm on pro max): This is new on the pro max and a little bit better on the pro (because the sensor is a little bit bigger than the tele on the 14pro).

So to be short, this year the cameras on the iphones were NOT updated in any way with the exception of the tele on the pro max and a slightly bigger sensor on the pro.

Now, let's try to understand how this works.

- Optical zoom is, in fact, the wrong word. Optical zoom means that if you have a 20-50mm lens (for example) the lenses will move and let you shoot at every focal between 20 and 50mm. This is NOT the case on smartphones. On smartphones you have only the 20 and the 50mm as 2 separate cameras and when you zoom between those 2 you are just cropping the image of the previous one (so if you have a 20 and 50mm and you shoot at 30, you are only digitally cropping the 20).
-new 120mm. Here it's really important to understand something. 120mm ARE NOT better or worse than the 77mm. It's just a different focal lenght. Some people are saying that is worse because 77mm is more close to what you could need everyday (for portrait for example) and 120mm is too far for a generic use. So you will actually end up having less possibilities than before. This is why some people are even choosing the normal 15 pro because they don't want the 120mm.

You have to keep in mind that as explained smartphones don't have optical zoom. When you have 3 cameras you can only shoot with those 3 focal lenght and as explained everything in between is just a crop.
In the past iphones had a 13mm, a 26mm and a 55mm. That was, at least in my opinion, the best setup because the space between those focal lenght is not too big so the digital zoom in between was "usable". That was already stretched a lot when they went from 55 to 77 for the tele, bringing the difference between the last 2 cameras on more than 40mm.

Now it's even worse, the main camera is a 24mm and the tele is a 120mm. You have almost 100mm of nothing in between and the digital zoom CANNOT compensate 100mm difference. This is why a lot of smartphones with 10x cameras ALSO maintain the 3x. To have something in the middle.

A lot of people i know are going with the 15pro and not the pro max exactly for this reason.

If you need a 120mm then the one on the iphone 15 pro max is definitely GOOD because they were able to maintain an aperture of 2.8 that is HUGE for a 120mm. But like i said, it's not better or worse than other camera, it's better if you need a 120mm, it could be worse than a 77mm if you don't need to shoot at 5x.

Great comment although I do have to mention this..

There is a smartphone that has optical zoom. Its the Sony Xperia 1 IV and Xperia 1 V. They have a moving optical zoom camera from 85mm to 125mm. That was what I was hoping Apple would bring to the 15 Pro Max this year. Maybe next year?

heres a video about it:

 

[jz0309]

I'm a hobby photographer so I am fully aware what "optical" zoom means in the photography world.
The real issue is that smartphone companies use the term "optical zoom" cause frankly the majority of users don't understand.

"Digital zoom" was used with the entry of digital cameras and for the longest time was used to describe "zooming in".

Today, thru the use of crop and AI/ML smartphone vendors provide "artificial" zoom between 2 or 3 prime (fixed focal length) lenses, that is the reality. Referring to that as "optical zoom" is plain false, referring to that as "digital zoom" probably doesn't do it justice either ...

 

[jz0309]

Nothing through the Camera app is RAW, i.e. data direct from the CCD with no alterations. I believe some apps (Halide I think?) have the ability to capture and present RAW, though.

you can set "ProRaw" in the camera app, but it resets itself every time you open the app. but as I said, Apple's ProRaw is not 100% raw.
and yes, 3rd party camera apps have way more capabilities

 

[ItachiSBT]

Great comment although I do have to mention this..

There is a smartphone that has optical zoom. Its the Sony Xperia 1 IV and Xperia 1 V. They have a moving optical zoom camera from 85mm to 125mm. That was what I was hoping Apple would bring to the 15 Pro Max this year. Maybe next year?

heres a video about it:

True, that is a real optical zoom.
I also hoped apple could do something like that.

Sony usually really tries different things on smartphones cameras, sometimes i think because it's the company selling the modules to everyone else (apple included) they just use the smartphone division to "advertise" what they can do.

 

[jz0309]

Great comment although I do have to mention this..

There is a smartphone that has optical zoom. Its the Sony Xperia 1 IV and Xperia 1 V. They have a moving optical zoom camera from 85mm to 125mm. That was what I was hoping Apple would bring to the 15 Pro Max this year. Maybe next year?

heres a video about it:

yes indeed, IF Apple would have provided that, I'd have a 15PM on order ...

 

[NotApplicable]

Because everyone is smart enough to understand what zoom equivalence is with multiple fixed lenses and there’s not a more customer-friendly way to describe different focal lengths provided by a set of fixed lenses than the zoom equivalence of the system

The same reason focal lengths themselves are described in 35mm equivalence on digital cameras. People understand it, and it’s the easiest way to describe what’s going on.

 

[Kierkegaarden]

1- I'm not manipulating anyone. On the contrary. Apple (like any other brand, don't get me wrong) presented a bunch of software updates on the main camera that were presented as "camera improvements".
I think that most people will hear that and think it's a different camera. It's not.

You’re presupposing that there is a person out there that might interpret “camera improvements” with “different camera”. Why the drama?

Again, you intentionally bolded the content of your previous comment that wasn’t true. You can have an opinion, but what you did was manipulative. Again, what is your point in doing this? What iPhone do you use now? Does it break your heart that the camera system in the 15 Pro hasn’t been completely re-engineered?

I think most consumers take a holistic view of technology — in terms of the camera, the processor plays a part and maybe helps push the boundaries of the current camera system further. Of course, this is just my opinion — you can always choose to wait for reviews to hear other opinions. Or you can even decide to complain about one of the most insignificant things in life. Your choice.

 

[WiiDSmoker]

you can set "ProRaw" in the camera app, but it resets itself every time you open the app. but as I said, Apple's ProRaw is not 100% raw.
and yes, 3rd party camera apps have way more capabilities

You can have it preserve settings

 

[cupcakes2000]

Hmm. Maybe you have a point with the tech sites. I don’t really take much notice of what they say regarding cameras, being a photographer myself I tend to find they spout a lot of nonsense in this respect.

However, Apple themselves describe it like this on their website:

“With iPhone 15 Pro, you have multiple focal lengths to work with. It’s like having seven pro lenses in your pocket, everywhere you go.”

Now, aside the obvious marketing at play, that’s correct from what I can gather.

They describe the 120mm lens as ‘5x optical zoom’, which is is if you compare it to the 24mm wide lens on the phone. They don’t describe it as an ‘optical zoom lens’

It’s even clear in use, as each lens has a switch on the camera app (moving up the scale does, in fact, optically zoom to that focal length). There is a markedly different approach to zoom using your fingers to zoom in (which is digital zoom). As most have said, the camera quality is so good that most ‘normal’ people don’t care or notice anyway.

If this isn’t covered in the tech sights then I don’t know, but I don’t think the official explanation is particularly misleading.

 

[jz0309]

You can have it preserve settings

mind to tell me how?

 

[ItachiSBT]

You’re presupposing that there is a person out there that might interpret “camera improvements” with “different camera”. Why the drama?

Again, you intentionally bolded the content of your previous comment that wasn’t true. You can have an opinion, but what you did was manipulative. Again, what is your point in doing this? What iPhone do you use now? Does it break your heart that the camera system in the 15 Pro hasn’t been completely re-engineered?

I think most consumers take a holistic view of technology — in terms of the camera, the processor plays a part and maybe helps push the boundaries of the current camera system further. Of course, this is just my opinion — you can always choose to wait for reviews to hear other opinions. Or you can even decide to complain about one of the most insignificant things in life. Your choice.

Ok basically you are saying that reality doesn't matter i and should not try to explain it to people.
Got it

 

[DaveXX]

The easiest way to describe it customer friendly is that an iPhone does not have zoom.
It has 3 prime lenses and the IP15PM has a different telephoto lens finish…
call the rest pinch zoom, crop, digital zoom whatever.
And by stating the fact that the IP15PM has a 120mm prime lens instead of 77mm is not downplaying the phone its a simple fact.

 

[ItachiSBT]

Hmm. Maybe you have a point with the tech sites. I don’t really take much notice of what they say regarding cameras, being a photographer myself I tend to find they spout a lot of nonsense in this respect.

However, Apple themselves describe it like this on their website:

“With iPhone 15 Pro, you have multiple focal lengths to work with. It’s like having seven pro lenses in your pocket, everywhere you go.”

Now, aside the obvious marketing at play, that’s correct from what I can gather.

They describe the 120mm lens as ‘5x optical zoom’, which is is if you compare it to the 24mm wide lens on the phone. They don’t describe it as an ‘optical zoom lens’

It’s even clear in use, as each lens has a switch on the camera app (moving up the scale does, in fact, optically zoom to that focal length). There is a markedly different approach to zoom using your fingers to zoom in (which is digital zoom). As most have said, the camera quality is so good that most ‘normal’ people don’t care or notice anyway.

If this isn’t covered in the tech sights then I don’t know, but I don’t think the official explanation is particularly misleading.

It's a problem of communication from everyone.
When smartphones started to have good cameras tech websites and channels started to review them. But 99% of them had zero knowledge in photography. I still remember how until a few years ago the majority of the "camera reviews" consisted in shooting 2 photos and saying "yes this seems better to me".

The problem with this is that a lot of media were the ones using a lot of these terms in the wrong way, so now of course people are used to see them in a certain way and companies are obviously adapting.
You can't do a physic lesson on a smartphone presentation, no one cares, so you just use the terms in the way people know them, even if they are technically wrong.

An example of this is how on a couple of years ago all the smartphone companies suddendly changed the "optical zoom" number on the same product.
They were advertising the main and tele cameras as "3x zoom" but then the next day they started to count the focal lenght from the ultra wide angle. So a 3x was suddenly 6x (13mm>77mm).
Samsung was one of the first one to do it, even now on the iphone 15 pro i'm sure i saw somewhere 10x optical zoom (because they start to count from the wide angle).

 

[yustas]

I appreciate the technical details and this discussion, but most people don't really care how the sausage is made. The bottom line is: Do the pictures on the 15 look better or not? If they look better, most people don't care if Apple used Old Bay seasoning to make them better or something else.

 

[Torty]

I appreciate the technical details and this discussion, but most people don't really care how the sausage is made. The bottom line is: Do the pictures on the 15 look better or not? If they look better, most people don't care if Apple used Old Bay seasoning to make them better or something else.

Between 3x and 5x worse and 5x and above better.

 

[OneBar]

don’t know if this is that easy. Many dont know anything about photography, me included. I like talking photos.
Like most older people I had in the past a digital cam. If it was able lets say 20x zoom then it could zoom up to 20x.
Now here comes apple and all the media telling us the new improved cam can do 5x optical zoom.
Disappointed that no tech site is explaining the difference but all are hyping the new cam.

There are plenty of digital point and shoots that have digital zoom beyond the optical. Same difference. I tell people all the time to not go beyond the optical because it degrades the image. I don't explain the nuts and bolts, just that it'll make the image look like dog turds. Most people go "OH, really??" and never do it again and that's all that's needed. Most people can't be bothered knowing what focal lengths are let alone how they are different on the 15 versus the 14 or that you actually need to do a little algebra to get the actual focal length because it's using a non-standard sized sensor. All they legitimately care is will this camera take as good or better images than what I have and getting more zoom probably accomplishes this for most.