iPhone 15 Pro Max Why so many media spread false information about the iPhone cameras?

[ItachiSBT]

I appreciate the technical details and this discussion, but most people don't really care how the sausage is made. The bottom line is: Do the pictures on the 15 look better or not? If they look better, most people don't care if Apple used Old Bay seasoning to make them better or something else.

They will not.
They will be 100% identical to the 14pro. No more no less.
If you shoot around 70mm they will actually be worse, if you shoot at 120mm it will be better simply because you could not do it before.

So it's just a matter of deciding if you prefer the 77m of pro or the 120 on the pro max. Quality use ZERO difference with last year.

 

[erikkfi]

This means for macro the phone take a 13mm shot and crop the picture (including digital processing). So a macro shot has NOT 12MP it is a upscaled 3MP image and using 1/4 of the sensor surface.

If this is true, it would explain why I hated using the macro mode on my 13 Pro so much. The pictures looked alright but there was always that funky, obvious switch-over into macro focus where the focal length and cropping seemed to change dramatically.

 

[DaveXX]

If this is true, it would explain why I hated using the macro mode on my 13 Pro so much. The pictures looked alright but there was always that funky, obvious switch-over into macro focus where the focal length and cropping seemed to change dramatically.

It’s very easy to check it yourself. Make a macro photo and check the info. You will see 13mm lens cropped to 26mm.

 

[ItachiSBT]

It’s very easy to check it yourself. Make a macro photo and check the info. You will see 13mm lens cropped to 26mm.

The macro is a true macro, no cropping and no use of the central part of the sensor.
The macro ability of the ultra wide depends on the distance from the focal point that is really close, you can't do that just cropping the main sensor.

Sometimes you see 26mm because when you're using the main sensor and try go close to the subject if the iphone thinks that the distance is "enough" and you don't need the macro it will just shoot at 26mm (that has better low light performance) with the name "macro" on it.

But in that case you're using the main camera and you're not as close as the ultra wide could go.

 

[purpleparrotuk]

Between 3x and 5x worse and 5x and above better.

They can’t prove that yet.

 

[slplss]

I don’t get why would anyone with common sense think you can shoot a clear picture at any points between fixed local lenghts. It’s always been like that. Choose desired lens, shoot and forget. All I need to know I can now zoom further and still get decent picture. All that’ll matter is if the 5x will be usable.

 

[DaveXX]

The macro is a true macro, no cropping and no use of the central part of the sensor.
The macro ability of the ultra wide depends on the distance from the focal point that is really close, you can't do that just cropping the main sensor.

Sometimes you see 26mm because when you're using the main sensor and try go close to the subject if the iphone thinks that the distance is "enough" and you don't need the macro it will just shoot at 26mm (that has better low light performance) with the name "macro" on it.

But in that case you're using the main camera and you're not as close as the ultra wide could go.

This is not correct. At least for the IP13PM

This is a macro shot.
Lens is 13mm f1.8 cropped to 26mm.
You can try it yourself as I said. The main lens is not capable of close distance shots.
As soon the camera shows the macro symbol it’s a cropped 13mm shot. Always without any exceptions.

 

[randomando]

Not sure why a company would shoot themselves in the foot on purpose. Maybe just wait for comparisons? Obviously you’re the self proclaimed expert but I wanna use my eyes to judge.

 

[DaveXX]

Not sure why a company would shoot themselves in the foot on purpose. Maybe just wait for comparisons? Obviously you’re the self proclaimed expert but I wanna use my eyes to judge.

it has nothing to do with expert.
What you say is "it was at the ip10 like that, it was at the ip11 like that, it was at the ip12 like that and 13 and 14 but lets wait and see... maybe at the 15 it is magically different that shots between optical focal lengths are different... Because there is a new magic zoom which can zoom to 100mm without loosing quality... apple invited the first fixed variable prime lens in history....
And if you believe just in your eyes do it yourself. Make a picture with 76mm on the IP Pro Max and look at that with your own eyes... the test is very simple.

 

[doolar]

I extremely rarely use anything but the fixed lenses on my 13 P (and all other phones before) and I expect to do the same on my incoming 15 PM. I thought it was common knowledge that everything in between the lenses are digital focal lengths/zoom that will suffer loss of image quality because it is a cropped image?

Not at all defending Apples marketing here, they are stretching the truth to say the least, but that's what companies do. They've done it for years on the cameras for the iPhones, I don't really see what's new this year?

But sure, maybe because I used to be an analog photographer who developed and copied film myself for years in the old days it is easier to understand and decipher the blurbage.

I mean there's obviously not a 120 mm lens in the iPhone, but it is equivalent to 120 mm on 35 mm gauge film (the sensor in the iPhone is obviously also not 35 mm) which used to be the standard film size used in everyday cameras for the most part.

With all this said, let's not forget the other wizzbangery that is digital image processing these days, that's where Apple really shines. I bet that the images coming out of the 15 P/PM will look absolutely stunning coming from a phone. A feat in itself I think - especially when comparing to what my Nikon F3 could do back in the day. It is such a luxury to have these phone cameras in pocket.

 

[DaveXX]

I extremely rarely use anything but the fixed lenses on my 13 P (and all other phones before) and I expect to do the same on my incoming 15 PM. I thought it was common knowledge that everything in between the lenses are digital focal lengths/zoom that will suffer loss of image quality because it is a cropped image?

I would say 95% don't know that. And they even don't believe it (just look at the comments). But if you call that 5x optical zoom why not 9.2x optical zoom? 5x of what? Its definitely a misleading information which no camera in world would use to describe a prime lens.

 

[LambdaTheImpossible]

My Nikon Z50 and 28mm prime lens (effective 46mm) does a better job when cropped than my iPhone 13 Pro telephoto lens when not cropped.

I expect the same to be the case for these compact prime lenses on smartphones regardless of the marketing.

It’s mostly about the glass not the whole camera package. And there isn’t going to be much of that however much they hack and pray.

Also as mentioned the iPhone is just three crap sensors with crap prime lenses and a lot of digital crutches.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

I'm a hobby photographer so I am fully aware what "optical" zoom means in the photography world.
The real issue is that smartphone companies use the term "optical zoom" cause frankly the majority of users don't understand.

"Digital zoom" was used with the entry of digital cameras and for the longest time was used to describe "zooming in".

Today, thru the use of crop and AI/ML smartphone vendors provide "artificial" zoom between 2 or 3 prime (fixed focal length) lenses, that is the reality. Referring to that as "optical zoom" is plain false, referring to that as "digital zoom" probably doesn't do it justice either ...

But, the smartphone companies and users aren’t the ones having an existential crisis over the use of “optical zoom”. It’s not an issue for THEM, both understand it as “do this and you can get more of what you’re taking a picture of to fill the frame”, and that’s all they need to know. They’ll tap 5x, take the picture and be happy with the results.

I was just thinking earlier today that the photography purist world could probably do well to hook into what’s going on in smartphones and generate some easily digestible terms that the media and the general public can consume and start to use commonly if this is going to be a pain point for them.

Otherwise, it’s not long before the general population literally does the same thing with “optical zoom” as they did with “literally”.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

you can set "ProRaw" in the camera app, but it resets itself every time you open the app. but as I said, Apple's ProRaw is not 100% raw.
and yes, 3rd party camera apps have way more capabilities

I don’t think that’s different from what I typed. I mentioned it’s not RAW and you agree? (and, there’s a setting to make it ProRaw all the time if a user decides).

 

[Unregistered 4U]

The easiest way to describe it customer friendly is that an iPhone does not have zoom.

And, right there, you’ve lost most people as they turn away, snap a picture using the 5x button and walk away happy having captured a picture they consider as “zoom” with a camera someone just told them doesn’t have zoom!

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Samsung was one of the first one to do it, even now on the iphone 15 pro i'm sure i saw somewhere 10x optical zoom (because they start to count from the wide angle).

5x optical zoom in, 2x optical zoom out; 10x optical zoom range

 

[doolar]

I would say 95% don't know that. And they even don't believe it (just look at the comments). But if you call that 5x optical zoom why not 9.2x optical zoom? 5x of what? Its definitely a misleading information which no camera in world would use to describe a prime lens.

Maybe I'm just to nerdy... But you're probably right!

We who lived through the megapixel and zoom races for digital photo and camcorders in their early days remember that there were a lot of discussions in normal media articles regarding the companies false marketing, and this reporting is perhaps what educated many of us or at least made us aware, even those who didn't come from a photography background as I.

 

[TonyC28]

So I am finding this whole argument kinda dumb, but I am starting to see the point. This is on Apple's website:

Now I can make the argument that 3x on an iPhone 15 Pro is optical, or 5x on the Pro Max, but neither comes close to 10x optical anything.

 

[erikkfi]

It’s very easy to check it yourself. Make a macro photo and check the info. You will see 13mm lens cropped to 26mm.

If that's how to check then no, it's not true. I'm looking at a macro shot from 2022 that shows as 12MP, 4032x3024, ultrawide camera 13mm.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

There are plenty of digital point and shoots that have digital zoom beyond the optical. Same difference.

Only it’s not the same difference as the digital point and shoots have nowhere near the ISP quality and computational power as today’s smartphones. Today’s smartphones do more in the first few ms than digital point and shoots do to going through the entire process of capturing an image.

 

[cupcakes2000]

…But if you call that 5x optical zoom why not 9.2x optical zoom? 5x of what? Its definitely a misleading information which no camera in world would use to describe a prime lens.

5x widest ‘normal’ focal length of the phone - 24mm.

It’s not misleading in the slightest. It’s 5x optical zoom. If they called it a zoom lens, then it would be misleading. But the don’t. They call it a telephoto which is 5x the optical length of the ‘normal’ lens.

Real lenses aren’t described in this manner because it’s not a necessary metric for a real camera.
They already have an established nomenclature; Any lens is telephoto if they’re over 35mm, any lens is wide if they’re below 35mm. Within that they are either called a zoom lens if they have a range of focal lengths and they’re called prime if they’re fixed. None of that particularly works well for the target audience of a phone camera, it’s too technical and too abstract in relation to a phone system.

I think it’s clear on the iPhone what’s going on, and what Apple is trying to say, but maybe it’s me.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

They will be 100% identical to the 14pro. No more no less.

They don’t have the same ISP chain, though, so they can’t be 100% identical to the 14 pro. Even the glass isn’t the same.

 

[jz0309]

But, the smartphone companies and users aren’t the ones having an existential crisis over the use of “optical zoom”. It’s not an issue for THEM, both understand it as “do this and you can get more of what you’re taking a picture of to fill the frame”, and that’s all they need to know. They’ll tap 5x, take the picture and be happy with the results.

I was just thinking earlier today that the photography purist world could probably do well to hook into what’s going on in smartphones and generate some easily digestible terms that the media and the general public can consume and start to use commonly if this is going to be a pain point for them.

Otherwise, it’s not long before the general population literally does the same thing with “optical zoom” as they did with “literally”.

you are correct, 99+% of smartphone users don't care about "optical zoom", they actually now have a camera which before they never did, that's good for them and as long as the smartphone is you main consumable device for those photos/videos, that's even better.
for the "photo purists" trying to "educate", well that is like Don Quixote, not worth it, with all the new and technology advancements, it's an endless endeavor ... we've all accepted that we do not search on the web but "google" ...

 

[jz0309]

I don’t think that’s different from what I typed. I mentioned it’s not RAW and you agree? (and, there’s a setting to make it ProRaw all the time if a user decides).

you're the 2nd person in this thread mentioning that and I have yet to figure out how, so please educated me

 

[cupcakes2000]

you're the 2nd person in this thread mentioning that and I have yet to figure out how, so please educated me

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