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There have been several reports that this year's model might be delayed. Then a couple of days ago, a report that said September was still on. And yet additional reports yesterday, that there would be a 1-2 month delay. At this point, it's anyone's guess ...
Delays would only be based on China’s conditions in terms of the pandemic. If Apple suppliers are on time, then I suspect we will see the iPhone launch ‘as scheduled‘, but at a staggered release sometime through late September to early November. Even if there is a delay, it doesn’t really change the outcome of anything, being iPhones have launched later in the past like the iPhone X in November 2017 for example.
I’m sorry, I didnt realise that my duration on the forum had any effect on my, or your ,expertise and ability to comment on this or in fact any matter. Your aggressive defence isn’t required, I’m an enquiring mind who is interested in this topic. I wasn’t saying that you are imagining it, I was simply stating that there are many causes of the symptoms described in this thread, and that the placebo effect is a potential factor to consider. Psychological effects are real and powerful things, by mentioning it I certainly didn’t intend for the assumption to be that its “in their head”, merely that it could possibly have a link to some cases based on the fact that not all PWM screens are causing this effect, even when they have a similar refresh rate. This is an anomoly in the data. I, like you, have no evidence to support any claims regarding this issue and was merely speculating. MandiMac got the gist of it perfectly.
You are getting headaches which I understand. Some people experience migraines and/or other side effects. My questioning was how PWM can be linked to this, not whether or not the symptoms are real or not. If you can provide evidence of this, other than anecdotal, then I would be interested. Part of the point I was making was simply that if there hasn’t been a study linking this, perhaps this is something that should be pursued to identify what, if any, links PWM has. There are potentially other factors at play such as the FaceID sensors as stated by others in this thread. Surely you would want an absolute answer rather than speculation?
I am just wondering. Has anyone ever here sent a direct email to Tim Cook about this issue and got a response? Or alternatively is it worth while if anyone has any media contacts to get this issue out in the media and for Apple to then officially comment and address the problem? I know some people have managed to get a reply from Tim Cook about other things in the past. However if anyone has a contact email for Tim maybe do this first and if he dosent reply then maybe getting it into the media for Apple to reply would be the best option. Because I for one also suffer from this and have kept to having my XR and if the issue isn’t resolved in the future looks like XR would be my last iPhone I would ever buy.
Would be worth sending Tim Cook an email and if there is anyway to obtain his personal number would be even better.
He’s unlikely to pick up when a stranger calls. At least since iPhones have this cool feature to send unknown callers straight to voicemail.
If perhaps we follow the correct lines of inquiry to get his number then he may answer. Didn’t know that feature will have to check that out.He’s unlikely to pick up when a stranger calls. At least since iPhones have this cool feature to send unknown callers straight to voicemail.
I doubt he even has a phone.. probably just a watch and an earpiece, or some tech we don’t know about. But he’ll have a battery of secretary’s for you to work through, and an assistant to beat before you make it to the final boss.
I read something on here from someone speculating that the issue is something called “dithering” and it made sense to me. I’m a guy who had half a dozen Android oled phones with NO issues. I was so pumped when Apple launched the Xs max that I got it. Within a day I had a headache. Searches led me to this site and I found out what pwm was. I kept my 8+ until the 11 came out. I figured it was a solid phone, just didn’t look as nice as the pro. Even that phone gave me (and multiple people on here) a headache. These headaches are not from pwm (11 is lcd), but apparently Apple changed something with their “ditheral” process in screens with the Xr. The Xr and 11 have the same resolution as the 6/7/8 before them, but the ditheral process is different on the 6/7/8 which is why people didn’t have these headaches. Believe me, I tried everything and am 99.9% positive that Face ID is a non factor for the vast majority of us with headaches and eye strain. My work phone was a 720p Moto phone with a primitive Face ID. Reason I bring this up, is some people will reply “it’s the lower resolution that’s messing with your eyes”. The only thing that makes sense to me is this ditheral process, and that’s why I get the same headache from Apple oled as well as the 11 which is lcd.
Most wont see the flicker in normal use, and the headaches aren’t instant you need to be using it for a little while and they will slowly build up. I don’t even realise they are happening until it’s too late and the headaches have set in.
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I don’t think that’s the case as I get headaches from an 8 year old Lenovo laptop with TN LCD which is pretty basic, the only thing in common with the iPhone OLED is the PWM frequency.
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I believe for some it’s the FaceID sensor, but for me it’s PWM. I’ve had the headaches from 3 separate devices and the only thing they have in common is the PWM frequency.
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Thanks for starting this thread! This is an issue that manufacturers seem to be ignoring even though it affects many, and probably also many that haven’t yet realized why they are having symptoms...
I hope Apple has done their R&D and that the coming models will be PWM free, but knowing how strict Apple is about color accuracy and the fact that analog dimming causes color shift in LEDs at low brightness I have a feeling they won’t get rid of it unless they made some groundbreaking advancement in backplane technology. But if anyone has the resources to do it it’s Apple so I still have hope.
Otherwise I have to take even greater care of my 11 so it lasts me until this is no longer an issue with new models. It should last 5 years with a battery change halfway through.
MicroLED is basically the same thing just that the LEDs are made of traditional materials instead of organic materials. Same backplane technology. The backplane technology is what drives the LEDs with PWM no matter if the LEDs happen to be organic or not. Unfortunately. Same issues with color shift when using analog dimming too.
I get migraines from flickering room lights. I’m having a really hard time finding flicker free LED bulbs since manufacturers don’t care and don’t mark flicker frequency and amount in the specs. Some say flicker free but you never know if that means no visual flicker or no flicker at all. I got a migraine attack from room lighting once so bad that had people called an ambulance because they though I was having a stroke.
No glasses will remove flicker. The eyes work at the speed of light, and the signal in sent to the brain in pretty much the same speed. The vision center has a neat feature to filter out flickering light but that doesn’t mean it won’t causes issues for migrain sufferers since it still reaches the brain.
It it comfirmed that the S5 does not use PWM? The S4 also has an LTPO backplane and it does use PWM.
My S4 does use PWM, but even though I’m super sensitive it has not caused me any issues in day to day use. I think it’s because it first of all is a very small screen, with mostly black and dark colors, which means it doesn’t output a lot of light.
It’s easily overpowered by ambient light in the sense that most of the lights received by the eye when using the watch is ambient light. That seems to be a factor for me, how much of the light I see is flickering. OLED viewfinder on a camera covering 100% of the view is horrible for me, the watch is fine. It’s also looked at for very brief moments.
When setting it up I experienced some light discomfort but it was done it a dimly lit room and I was playing with it for two hours.
The point is that you can’t see it, but it’s still there and your brain does ”see” it. Some people are sensitive, some don’t seem to be. Scientists seem to agree that flickering light is a health issue, and there are recommendations on acceptable levels for commercial lighting installations, but at what level it’s an issue is not yet clear.
It may be that the amount and frequency in phone screens gives mild symptoms to most people, augments other symptoms or that it isn’t an issue for most people. I strongly believe many are having headaches and sore eyes and don’t know it’s because of PWM flicker, mostly because it can’t be seen. I have heard stories of people An unusual amount of migraines and efter months finally figuring out it was an LED light bulb in the kitchen, or the OLED phone they bought when it first started but that they didn’t connect to it.
I know pretty quickly when a light source has a lot of invisible flicker, because I get tunnel vision and nausea. Lights with low amounts of flicker can give me very diffuse symptoms that may or may not lead to a migraine attack over time.
Please excuse any typos. Typing this on the iPad on screen keyboard with no autocorrect.
I hope Apple has done their R&D and that the coming models will be PWM free, but knowing how strict Apple is about color accuracy and the fact that analog dimming causes color shift in LEDs at low brightness I have a feeling they won’t get rid of it unless they made some groundbreaking advancement in backplane technology. But if anyone has the resources to do it it’s Apple so I still have hope.
Otherwise I have to take even greater care of my 11 so it lasts me until this is no longer an issue with new models. It should last 5 years with a battery change halfway through.
MicroLED is basically the same thing just that the LEDs are made of traditional materials instead of organic materials. Same backplane technology. The backplane technology is what drives the LEDs with PWM no matter if the LEDs happen to be organic or not. Unfortunately. Same issues with color shift when using analog dimming too.
I get migraines from flickering room lights. I’m having a really hard time finding flicker free LED bulbs since manufacturers don’t care and don’t mark flicker frequency and amount in the specs. Some say flicker free but you never know if that means no visual flicker or no flicker at all. I got a migraine attack from room lighting once so bad that had people called an ambulance because they though I was having a stroke.
No glasses will remove flicker. The eyes work at the speed of light, and the signal in sent to the brain in pretty much the same speed. The vision center has a neat feature to filter out flickering light but that doesn’t mean it won’t causes issues for migrain sufferers since it still reaches the brain.
It it comfirmed that the S5 does not use PWM? The S4 also has an LTPO backplane and it does use PWM.
Came here to ask this if an Apple Watch gives you the same issue. Let's hope for all of you that they will implement this
My S4 does use PWM, but even though I’m super sensitive it has not caused me any issues in day to day use. I think it’s because it first of all is a very small screen, with mostly black and dark colors, which means it doesn’t output a lot of light.
It’s easily overpowered by ambient light in the sense that most of the lights received by the eye when using the watch is ambient light. That seems to be a factor for me, how much of the light I see is flickering. OLED viewfinder on a camera covering 100% of the view is horrible for me, the watch is fine. It’s also looked at for very brief moments.
When setting it up I experienced some light discomfort but it was done it a dimly lit room and I was playing with it for two hours.
The point is that you can’t see it, but it’s still there and your brain does ”see” it. Some people are sensitive, some don’t seem to be. Scientists seem to agree that flickering light is a health issue, and there are recommendations on acceptable levels for commercial lighting installations, but at what level it’s an issue is not yet clear.
It may be that the amount and frequency in phone screens gives mild symptoms to most people, augments other symptoms or that it isn’t an issue for most people. I strongly believe many are having headaches and sore eyes and don’t know it’s because of PWM flicker, mostly because it can’t be seen. I have heard stories of people An unusual amount of migraines and efter months finally figuring out it was an LED light bulb in the kitchen, or the OLED phone they bought when it first started but that they didn’t connect to it.
I know pretty quickly when a light source has a lot of invisible flicker, because I get tunnel vision and nausea. Lights with low amounts of flicker can give me very diffuse symptoms that may or may not lead to a migraine attack over time.
Please excuse any typos. Typing this on the iPad on screen keyboard with no autocorrect.
From what I’ve read that doesn’t actually work as it’s not DC Dimming.
Who knows, there's often reports of production delays, sometimes that turns out to be true and to have an effect on availability dates (iPhone X and XR) and sometimes it's either untrue or doesn't really impact availability. FWIW it sounds like the delay to ramping up production is a lot more severe this year than for any previous model (not until October by one account!) but whether that's true or not I guess you would have to expect at least some supply constraints for the rest of the year given everything that's going on, even in the absence of specific rumours about production delays.
Do you know if this "ditheral" process is a problem with the new iPhone SE2? I am clearly sensitive to *something* on the new screens. I went from a 6 to XS and starting having headaches immediately. I reluctantly moved to the XR, but the headaches continued. I couldn't understand why the headaches would continue with that screen, unless it was linked to the FaceID. The headaches were so bad that I couldn't continue. I returned the XR and bought an old SE, and have been fine with that. Obviously, that phone is pretty out of date (and it was when I purchased it), so I'd like to upgrade. I'm guessing that the iPhone SE2 is the way to go (although I'm disappointed to miss out on the cameras of the other phones). So -- back to the original question -- have you heard anything about whether this process is an issue on the new SE2?
I don't know what the cause is but I had zero problems with the original SE or with my Samsung Galaxy S10e. However, I purchased the SE2 upon release and immediately suffered eye strain and mild headaches. I tried it for 3 days and still had problems so my wife is now happily using it. I found the text not super sharp compared to the SE1 or the Samsung. Nobody else on here seems to have reported problems with the SE2 so maybe I am unique.
General question: Has anyone tried those blue light glasses? Is there any reason to believe that they would help reduce the effects of PWM (or whatever is causing the headaches)?
No never used blue light glasses, but wouldn't the Night shift mode on the iPhone do the same thing?
There is some hope though for pwm sufferers, as some rumours indicate that Apple will release a lower cost 4g version of the iphone 12 5’4 model which will have an lcd screen.
Sign me up as one of those affected. I first got the iPhone X and immediately noticed headaches and hard to focus on the screen. So I purchased the 8 plus and all was good. Then the next year with the XS Max I was having the same issue (minus the screen focus issue, just headaches). I then tried the XR still having the same issue, which prompted me to think maybe it wasn't just the screen after all. Thought it was the Face ID sensors. Couple of months later, I decided to try the XS Max again and this time keep it for a while to see if I get adjusted. My thought process behind this was it worked for my Apple Watch. When I first got the Series 2, I was experiencing tingling up and down my arm and saw some other posts of others experiencing this as well. I guess all the sensors up against the skin can be sensitive for some people. I decided to keep the watch and eventually it went away. The tingling issue popped up briefly when I upgraded to the Series 4, but promptly went away.
Had the XS Max for a couple of months. Headaches seemed to go away, but not 100%. Phone however was usable and I just decided to "ignore" it. I went to my optometrist for an annual check up. My eyes were 100% healthy, my eyesight was still the same, didn't get much worse (I wear contacts and glasses). Then purchased both the 11 Pro Max and the regular 11. Still having headaches on both. So I returned the 11 and kept the Pro Max. I then decided to cover up all the sensors and use it for a couple of weeks. Still had headaches. Uncovered the sensors and just went back to using the phone as normal. Currently I don't really get headaches often with it, only when I use it often. But again the phone is usable. But overall the iPhone X was the worst. I couldn't even focus on the screen.
Had the XS Max for a couple of months. Headaches seemed to go away, but not 100%. Phone however was usable and I just decided to "ignore" it. I went to my optometrist for an annual check up. My eyes were 100% healthy, my eyesight was still the same, didn't get much worse (I wear contacts and glasses). Then purchased both the 11 Pro Max and the regular 11. Still having headaches on both. So I returned the 11 and kept the Pro Max. I then decided to cover up all the sensors and use it for a couple of weeks. Still had headaches. Uncovered the sensors and just went back to using the phone as normal. Currently I don't really get headaches often with it, only when I use it often. But again the phone is usable. But overall the iPhone X was the worst. I couldn't even focus on the screen.
That is a real shame that some of us take a real risk when paying big bucks for these devices not knowing how they will impact us. If purchased in a country with no Apple store there is often no 14 day trial period.
I don’t doubt for a second that he has a phone. It’s the company’s most successful product. Wether you get his direct number, that’s a different question
From my point of view from my personal experience, every iPhone since the X has had a crap screen. Every iPhone up the 8 plus has been ok with the Plus screens being superior to the smaller LCD screens, but since then- iPhone screens are worse than ever. They all look candy yummy at first glance, but stare at them long enough & they'll rip (my) eyeballs out of my skull. So disappointing.