Why the rush for TouchBar mac?

[Chupa Chupa]

I think it is primarily based on the price tag, secondarily based on the things that were taken away to facilitate it.

I'd say the reverse, at least on the 15". It's not that much more than previous models but it is missing the stuff those models had like 512GB hard drive and diversity of ports -- no need to spend more money on PITA to keep up with dongles. Nobody like dongles.

 

[therealseebs]

Your same Fn keys are still there.

No, they aren't.

I had keys which were always available, not just when software chose to display them, and which were in familiar positions and had tactile feedback.

The closest I can get now is that if I glue the fn key down I have the function key row slightly offset from its usual position and with no tactile feedback so I can't hit keys without looking. That's a significant distance.

I know you disagree with me, but I assure you that a year from now, everyone is going to love this thing.

Okay, I'll take that bet. How much are you betting me that, a year from now, everyone is going to love this thing? Including me. I would be happy to put money on this; either I'm actually happy with it, and feel less bad about a $several-thousand machine having a keyboard I hate, or I get money.

If the answer is "$0", then your "assurance" is worth about as much as the paper it's printed on.

 

[FrozenDarkness]

it's hilarious to bet somebody based off of how they personally feel. how would you lose the best therealseebs?

 

[ricky1989]

i think apple is feeling the pressure from competition in an environment where their growth is slowing. They don't have time to perfect products anymore. They're balancing between "WHY HASN'T APPLE UPDATED THEIR STUFF" to "innovation is dead at apple" to "man this new product sucks, why didn't they do this instead"

you tell me can they please everybody?

It actually took them extra long duration for this update (18months is kinda long) and they are not able to think this through is not the Apple I used to know.

(Mac OS is still a great system compare to Windows, and I will be continuing to use it until Apple finally came up with some messed up features to f- with me.)
[doublepost=1479426796][/doublepost]

I'm not rushing for one. If they offered the same specc'd Macbook as the base touchbar, but without the touchbar, for $200 (Canadian) less, I would go for the non-touchbar.

I value the touchbar at $100-$150 (Canadian), and Apple is valuing it at $200-$250 (Canadian).

The problem with being an "innovator" and bringing in USB-C and touchbar, is that you can't make the consumer pay EXTRA for those features. You can charge the customer the increased cost of having those features, but Apple is charging as if everyone was begging for these changes.

Apple is too big to fail. They have a very inelastic demand base. That's what they're catering to... but I can't see them expanding their profit margins much by enticing new customers anytime soon.

Granted Apple is a giant company, but there is nothing that is too-big-to-fail. Your part on having less accessories included is very true. Back in the days, you get remote controls with mac purchase, 10W power brick for ipods and so much more. These days, Apple simply wants to squeeze every penny out of your already-flaccid wallet :-(

 

[Bryan Bowler]

Ahh, yes, the way we're all laughing about the loss of the anti-glare displays, or the loss of Ethernet, and we don't have people who are still bothered by those?

Yeah, "most" people will probably be fine. I suspect "most" people would also be fine if Apple had just capped processor speed at 2.2GHz to extend battery life, and "most" people would be fine with half the battery life, and "most" people would, in fact, be happy with Windows, too.

You're rambling. We're talking about the Touch Bar here.
[doublepost=1479443127][/doublepost]

That is the problem... it's only customizable by developers.

No, it is not. As I said, when you pull the new MBP out of the box, you can still have all of your regular Fn keys, F1 thru F12. And you can also have the regular options that were on the existing keyboard too.

Many of you are making this harder than it needs to be.
[doublepost=1479443654][/doublepost]

No, they aren't.

I had keys which were always available, not just when software chose to display them, and which were in familiar positions and had tactile feedback.

The closest I can get now is that if I glue the fn key down I have the function key row slightly offset from its usual position and with no tactile feedback so I can't hit keys without looking. That's a significant distance.



Okay, I'll take that bet. How much are you betting me that, a year from now, everyone is going to love this thing? Including me. I would be happy to put money on this; either I'm actually happy with it, and feel less bad about a $several-thousand machine having a keyboard I hate, or I get money.

If the answer is "$0", then your "assurance" is worth about as much as the paper it's printed on.

Again, you're making this harder than it needs to be. Push the Fn key down and then choose whatever Fn key your heart desires. As far as tactile feel goes for the actual Fn key, how can you not feel it, especially since it is the most bottom-left key? Granted, I'll agree that for awhile you'll have to glance at the Touch Bar to tap the F-key you need, but after awhile, you should grow accustomed to it and be able to find it without looking.

When I said that everyone would like it, I was using everyone as a generic phrase. Of course, I should have realized that you would capitalize on that after having seen your "unique style" in many other threads, but that's ok. I stand by my intent that the Touch Bar will be a very popular option amongst the large majority of people one year from now. If there was actually a standardized and unbiased way of polling that stat, I'd gladly bet you any amount of money up to $10,000. But there probably isn't. Anyway, keep flaming on about the Touch Bar and the Keyboard. It's your right to do so. Just don't be surprised when others counter your opinions.

 

[Rkuda]

I urge those who are tempted to try out the touchbar just hold it off for couple of months and grab a TB magic keyboard.

No.

Your post is nothing more than concern trolling.

 

[Chancha]

One could argue that programble / customizable touch bar button is an improvement over function keys, however: A physical ESC key with tactile feedback is not. I know there are programmers / copywriters whose muscle memory relies on it. And for myself, as a graphic artist, I find myself frequently press Esc to get out of selection in 2D layout software. A few years ago I think from 10.8>10.9, Apple took away the Esc key deselection in Finder and I was pissed.

I think it is the same with the USB-C port issue, if Apple simply *added* new functions on top of proven old ones, most people would have been happy to welcome the transition. Taking away functions and limiting how a computer should behave takes a very strong and throughout vision, which Apple doesn't seem to have anymore.

 

[blackberrycubed]

You're really asking this to this forum? There are people who are willing to throw down $200-300 for a book about Apple products, and are willing to accept all the faults of the new MacBook Pro's (I can list them all if you'd like) because MUH SOFTWARE.

please list these dumb isheep.

 

[Murgatroyd314]

For me, it was quite simple. It was past time for my next upgrade anyway. I'd originally planned to replace my late '11 MBP this past spring, but I decided to wait and see what the new version would be like. I liked what I saw enough to go for it rather than a '15.

 

[Ataricade]

I came from a 15" 2013 and these new ones are amazing. Don't believe the hate. Cutting edge.

 

[The Mercurian]

I came from a 15" 2013 and these new ones are amazing. Don't believe the hate. Cutting edge.

As in so thin you can slice bread ?

 

[Chupa Chupa]

No, it is not. As I said, when you pull the new MBP out of the box, you can still have all of your regular Fn keys, F1 thru F12. And you can also have the regular options that were on the existing keyboard too.

Many of you are making this harder than it needs to be.

You completely missed my point. I said the TB should be user configurable in an app even if the developer didn't build in TB shortcuts like you can do with F Keys. I did not say the F Keys do not exist anymore.

Users cannot, for example, place a double space icon in Touch Bar and map it to that function for the word processor of their choice. The developer has to include that option or it's not possible -- maybe as an F key, but not as a fancy custom TB icon. That is the weak link of TB I'm talking about. Without Dev support TB becomes wasted blank keyboard real estate.

 

[twinlight]

I'm actually intrigued by this machine. It's just to expensive for me at the moment.

I have never owned a mac but the iOS ecosystem have grown on me and I never use my much overpowered Windows machine with twi monitors and a table that takes up 3 m2 of space for no reason. The iPad is what I use but it's not perfect all the time.

If Apple Pay was in my part of the world it would be even more interesting to get one.

Everyone is complaining about ports and specs but for me it's perfect as I need a beefed up iPad with keyboard and mouse pretty much.
[doublepost=1479466954][/doublepost]

You completely missed my point. I said the TB should be user configurable in an app even if the developer didn't build in TB shortcuts like you can do with F Keys. I did not say the F Keys do not exist anymore.

Users cannot, for example, place a double space icon in Touch Bar and map it to that function for the word processor of their choice. The developer has to include that option or it's not possible -- maybe as an F key, but not as a fancy custom TB icon. That is the weak link of TB I'm talking about. Without Dev support TB becomes wasted blank keyboard real estate.

Just develop a program for this function then?

It's a to week old first iteration version.

Im sure some developers are already working on mapping tasks, shortcuts, scripts and workflows to the touchbar.

 

[Phil A.]

1) MacBooks with one port and a horrible keyboard

It doesn't need more than one port for the target market, and the keyboard is fine

2) One of the ugliest battery cases

Can't argue with that

3) Charging an Apple pencil like that? Really?

I never charge my pencil by plugging it in to my iPad (I've got a stand and there's also an adapter so you can charge it on a standard lightning cable in the box) - it's there as a backup in case of needing a quick boost and you don't have anything else with you

4) Charging an Apple Mouse like that? Really?

It may look a bit silly but it's not really an issue as I just charge it overnight or a few minutes while I make a coffee will give enough charge for the rest of the day

5) A $200 book of just photos? No memorable texts? Oh, and making it BIGGER is an extra $100? LOL.

Again, can't really defend this one!

6) (Insert all the faults of the MacBook Pro's)

Eliminate the hyperbole and they are solid products that have sold in huge numbers

7) Failures of all their products (Touch disease, dGPU problems with MBP's and Mac Pro's, etc.)

Failures have always happened with all products (Apple included)

8) Lack of updates for the Mac Pro's

I don't think it's Apple's core market any more

And then you have Microsoft, which is really trying to improve its company.

To be fair, they had a lot of improving to do, and haven't exactly been blame free recently - have a look at how many problems the Surface Pro 4 and Surface Book had when they came out (issues that took over 6 months to fix)

 

[mercedes27]

Well I'm running late 2012 13"retina. So for me - upgrade after 4years is just ok.
But I get your idea. There are people with 2015 MacBooks willing to buy a new one - to me it is nonsense, but they don't spend my money

 

[Mildredop]

I'm ready to upgrade, but I'm going to wait for the touchscreen Mac rather than invest in this two-bit go-between.

 

[mercedes27]

I'm ready to upgrade, but I'm going to wait for the touchscreen Mac rather than invest in this two-bit go-between.

It will be a long time. Schiller said, that they tried a had prototypes with touchscreen but it didn't work. To me - i personally don't want touchscreen. It does not make any sense to me and I ´m glad I ´m not the only one.

 

[Mildredop]

It will be a long time. Schiller said, that they tried a had prototypes with touchscreen but it didn't work. To me - i personally don't want touchscreen. It does not make any sense to me and I ´m glad I ´m not the only one.

People thought that about mobile phones. Lots thought a physical keyboard was important and a full touchscreen wasn't wanted.

Steve Bulmer was one of them and is now frequently ridiculed for his stance. BlackBerry held on to the notion of the physical keyboard, and look at them now.

Touchscreens are now everywhere in modern life - smartphones, tablets, ticket machines at train stations, ATMs, digital cameras, in-flight entertainment, in cars, sat-navs, fruit machines, even a taxi I rode in the other week had a touchscreen.

PCs are embracing the touchscreen (just look at the Surface Studio). Apple are going to start looking seriously behind and the touchbar is just an odd inbetween.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

I don't think "without a doubt" is defensible here; clearly, a lot of people preferred the function keys. If I absolutely had to choose one or the other, I'd take function keys. I wouldn't mind having both, but the touch bar is not as useful to me in my actual daily life as the keys it's replacing were.

What the function keys that are still accessible on the touch bar??
[doublepost=1479469460][/doublepost]

You completely missed my point. I said the TB should be user configurable in an app even if the developer didn't build in TB shortcuts like you can do with F Keys. I did not say the F Keys do not exist anymore.

Users cannot, for example, place a double space icon in Touch Bar and map it to that function for the word processor of their choice. The developer has to include that option or it's not possible -- maybe as an F key, but not as a fancy custom TB icon. That is the weak link of TB I'm talking about. Without Dev support TB becomes wasted blank keyboard real estate.

That's how software works you know unless the developer includes compatability with any new hardware then it won't work. Apple cannot be held reponsible for that!! They did build in standard function for incompatible apps though so they have all the bases they could cover covered!!
[doublepost=1479469851][/doublepost]

People thought that about mobile phones. Lots thought a physical keyboard was important and a full touchscreen wasn't wanted.

Steve Bulmer was one of them and is now frequently ridiculed for his stance. BlackBerry held on to the notion of the physical keyboard, and look at them now.

Touchscreens are now everywhere in modern life - smartphones, tablets, ticket machines at train stations, ATMs, digital cameras, in-flight entertainment, in cars, sat-navs, fruit machines, even a taxi I rode in the other week had a touchscreen.

PCs are embracing the touchscreen (just look at the Surface Studio). Apple are going to start looking seriously behind and the touchbar is just an odd inbetween.

Utter nonsense touchscreens have been an utter bust in anything but tablets and convertibles, laptops are rubbish with them and desktops utterly pointless unless you can turn the screen flat like the recently announced studio and even then the workflows that can make good use of this are few and far between.

Apple did their research and came up with a different way for multi screen input in computers, that they consider a better option, there is now innovation in two different directions and opposing philosophy in computer design for the first time in a decade. That's all good for everyone!!

if touchscreen computers Are your thing then Apple are no longer the computer company for you get over it and move on. If like me you think they are unergonomic pointless turd to be turned off at the first opportunity then Apple has become the next new thing that may work for you!!

 

[Phil A.]

People thought that about mobile phones. Lots thought a physical keyboard was important and a full touchscreen wasn't wanted.

Steve Bulmer was one of them and is now frequently ridiculed for his stance. BlackBerry held on to the notion of the physical keyboard, and look at them now.

Touchscreens are now everywhere in modern life - smartphones, tablets, ticket machines at train stations, ATMs, digital cameras, in-flight entertainment, in cars, sat-navs, fruit machines, even a taxi I rode in the other week had a touchscreen.

PCs are embracing the touchscreen (just look at the Surface Studio). Apple are going to start looking seriously behind and the touchbar is just an odd inbetween.

You could have a point here: I have a surface book and while I don't use the touchscreen extensively, it is useful for things like scrolling web pages.

You are also right that it is definitely the way technology is moving as people growing up with tech now use touch screens all the time on their phones and tablets

With a touch screen they could presumably replicate the gestures of the trackpad fairly easily, but there would also need to be some re-engineering to macOS to optimise it better for touch.

IMO It would make sense for them to add touch screen and pen support to their laptops even if they don't add it to the desktops (where the argument against it is much greater) and their intransigence could well cost them in the future: If people don't want to use a touchscreen there would be nothing forcing them to, but if they do then there's no option with macOS. It's not a deal breaker for me, but may well be for some people

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Just develop a program for this function then?

It's a to week old first iteration version.

Im sure some developers are already working on mapping tasks, shortcuts, scripts and workflows to the touchbar.

1. This is Apple's baby -- one they highly touting as the big selling feature. Usability is their responsibility, not mine. Yes, it's been available to the public for one week. But it hasn't been in Apple's lab for that short time.

I am sure some developers are working on compatibility right now. Again Not.My.Point. My point is that it would really make TB so much more useful if users could overlay macros on it themselves without having to rely on developers. Do you not think that would make TB a much more useful feature?

That's how software works you know unless the developer includes compatability with any new hardware then it won't work. Apple cannot be held reponsible for that!! They did build in standard function for incompatible apps though so they have all the bases they could cover covered!!

Uh, that makes zero sense. Apple controls the software and hardware here. They can be held "responsible" for how Touch Bar works because they designed it.

It really would not be all that difficult for Apple to offer user-programmable keys for TB made with an app like Automator, except that since they fired Sal Sogohian, that's clearly not the direction Apple wants to go. Sure they have the standard F keys but if Apple is going to shake the market up here by eliminating the hard keys for a virtual TB then why not exploit TB? Why launch a new keyboard conceptualization but then limit user customization to the same old F keys, reserving everything else to developers?

 

[jackoatmon]

Why are there so many people on this forum trying to convince other people not to buy a product they've never even used?

 

[Mildredop]

unless you can turn the screen flat like the recently announced studio

Microsoft are thinking outside the box.

Children born in the last ten years have only known touchscreens. The number of times I've seen a kid try and jab the screen of a computer - it's become second nature.

Times move on. I'm not saying the touchscreen needs to replace the mouse and keyboard, but it makes sense to include it as an additional form of input.

Give it another few years, and kids who have grown-up with using touchscreens every day of their lives will be looking to spend their own earnings on computers, and it may be that they see Macs as being 'old technology' that they can't interact with in a way they are used to and opt for PCs instead.

Once that begins, it may be difficult for Apple to stop it.

 

[chabig]

That is the problem... it's only customizable by developers. Why? Why can't users customize it like F keys?

Users can do everything with the touchbar that they could with the F-keys. No functionality was taken away at all. The F-keys are still there, and act as they always have.

 

[Samuelsan2001]

Microsoft are thinking outside the box.

Children born in the last ten years have only known touchscreens. The number of times I've seen a kid try and jab the screen of a computer - it's become second nature.

Times move on. I'm not saying the touchscreen needs to replace the mouse and keyboard, but it makes sense to include it as an additional form of input.

One ridiculously overpriced outdated tech computer not to be released for months that might make a touchscreen desktop worthwhile for a few hundred thousand people excuse while I couldn't give a crap!! That's because children have never had to do anything on a computer that needs a mouse and keyboard input and the spent their young childhood using phones and tablets teenagers are totally different.

And Apple are thinking outside the box too more so as this touchbar is the first of its kind.

If you'd read my post you'd have noticed that I was all for the different directions and ms and Apple are taking. I just agree with apples way of doing things if you don't buy something else.