Why the rush for TouchBar mac?

[Mildredop]

You are also right that it is definitely the way technology is moving as people growing up with tech now use touch screens all the time on their phones and tablets

I think the inclusion of the touchbar is also Apple admitting that people want to interact with their computers using touch. But I think people will start to get frustrated that they can only touch a little strip rather than just touch the screen if they want.

Apple will make a full touchscreen one day. They just have to.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

Users can do everything with the touchbar that they could with the F-keys. No functionality was taken away at all. The F-keys are still there, and act as they always have.

So I can insert an icon of a double space and map it to that function in Office 2011? Not talking about doing this with an F Key, but using the blank TB space and my own custom icon. That is what I'm talking about -- not F keys. I understand F keys.

 

[maflynn]

I had the opportunity to play with the TB at my local apple store and I was impressed. Apple did a great job and making it feel like its always been there.

With that said, I walked away with feeling it was more gimmicky then useful. Sure some of the stuff was nice, but I failed to see the advantage over what it's currently doing vs. hot keys or a mouse.

I'm a fairly heavy user of function keys, sorry Phil Schiller but I do need them, and the lack of tactile F keys is a major impediment. I also rely heavily on hot keys, so its more efficient to hit a key combination as I type instead of moving my hand and eyes to the touch bar

 

[CreativeC]

Without a doubt, it is better than what we had before

somebody is in serious denial here, or plain naivité

 

[Mildredop]

I just agree with apples way of doing things if you don't buy something else.

The "go and buy something else" attitude won't be one that Apple has. They won't want to watch their customers go elsewhere.

I'm someone who, after regularly upgrading my Mac since 2001 and being ready to buy the next has, for the first time, decided to not bother (which I did mention if you read my post). If too many people do that, Apple may find they get in to a spot of bother.

 

[Bryan Bowler]

You completely missed my point. I said the TB should be user configurable in an app even if the developer didn't build in TB shortcuts like you can do with F Keys. I did not say the F Keys do not exist anymore.

I didn't miss anything. You had replied directly to my comment about the fact that the F1-F12 jets are still available and then started saying they weren't. What you're saying above is a completely different topic than what was being discussed. Unfortunately, this is typical for those of you that are continually complaining about the Touch Bar. Please slow down for a moment and better understand what it being discussed rather than blindly ranting about the Touch Bar.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

I didn't miss anything. You had replied directly to my comment about the fact that the F1-F12 jets are still available and then started saying they weren't.

Then yes you did miss something because that 100% was not what I wrote.

 

[Fishrrman]

BasicGreatGuy wrote:
"While the touchbar may prove useful to several here, I don't think it would have been in my case, given the lack of development right now. That might change as it matures."

I think the touchbar will eventually prove to be as useful and practical as thunderbolt external drives have become.

That is to say, SOME folks will actually use it.
SOME applications will actually utilize it.

But beyond that, it won't become overly popular or useful.
And may just disappear after a while, another somewhat gimmicky "Apple innovation" that never really caught on...

 

[Bryan Bowler]

somebody is in serious denial here, or plain naivité

I agree. I'm glad you finally realized that most users will enjoy the Touch Bar after using it for awhile and after developers have had time to add their spin to it.

 

[aevan]

Not sure if some of us only upgrade to the newer mac solely because to the touchbar. This might not be the brightest idea, given that Apple might very much release a magic keyboard with touchbar as they update the iMac in the coming WWDC or sooner. By then touchbar would if more mature (hypothetically) and more approachable for most of us.

I urge those who are tempted to try out the touchbar just hold it off for couple of months and grab a TB magic keyboard.

There is a good chance Apple will never bring Touch Bar to the keyboard. There is a reason they placed it directly below the screen, as an extension of that screen. It's inside the peripheral vision. This was a topic in the latest (I think) ATP podcast, they tried that touch-bar simulator for the iPad on the iMac and they say it was a really bad experience (not because it was a simulator, but because you constantly had to look up and down). I believe them, and I'm almost certain this is how Apple sees it.

I am not saying it's necessarily a bad idea, and there is a slight chance Apple might do it - but I really doubt it. Besides, just think about it - they don't refresh keyboards that often, and when they were working on the new Magic Keyboard last year, the Touch Bar was in development for a while - if they had plans of putting it on the keyboard, they wouldn't put the new Magic Keyboard out, they would wait a year and come out with the TB model. Also, one more thing to consider - the Touch Bar is expensive. It's basically a touch-screen computer with it's own chip. Magic Keyboard is $99. A Touch Bar version would probably be $199-$250. I think that's a bit too much for a keyboard - even for Apple.

So, I don't think we'll see a Touchbar version of the Magic Keyboard soon - if ever. Eventually, it may come to the 12" MacBook.
[doublepost=1479487349][/doublepost]

More and more people are realizing that Apple is not the company that it used to be.

1) MacBooks with one port and a horrible keyboard
2) One of the ugliest battery cases
3) Charging an Apple pencil like that? Really?
4) Charging an Apple Mouse like that? Really?
5) A $200 book of just photos? No memorable texts? Oh, and making it BIGGER is an extra $100? LOL.
6) (Insert all the faults of the MacBook Pro's)
7) Failures of all their products (Touch disease, dGPU problems with MBP's and Mac Pro's, etc.)
8) Lack of updates for the Mac Pro's

And then you have Microsoft, which is really trying to improve its company.

I miss the Apple that brought innovation and excitement into things like the MacBook Air and the iPod Touch. But with how it is now? Forget it. I really hope it just dies out soon.

Almost everything you said is just your personal opinion. I disagree completely on 7 out of 8 points you made.

First - more and more people are realizing that they want to switch to Apple. Apple sells more phones, tablets and computers than any other competitor every year, and that difference is actually growing.

As for the rest:

1) Love that keyboard
2) Not attractive, but prettier than any other battery case. And more practical.
3) Pencil is the BEST stylus ever made, and you charge it with the adapter. When you need to charge it on the go, that charging method is actually really useful. Really.
4) No big deal. Really.
5) Collector's item. As someone already mentioned - CE Making of Stanley Kubrick's 2001 book costs $1250! And there are even more expensive collector's books!
6) Em.... maybe just the price. Nothing else, really.
7) Happens to every manufacturer out there - in fact, more to others.
8) This is the only thing I agree with.

BTW, Apple is faaaaaar from dying.

 

[ricky1989]

There is a good chance Apple will never bring Touch Bar to the keyboard. There is a reason they placed it directly below the screen, as an extension of that screen. It's inside the peripheral vision. This was a topic in the latest (I think) ATP podcast, they tried that touch-bar simulator for the iPad on the iMac and they say it was a really bad experience (not because it was a simulator, but because you constantly had to look up and down). I believe them, and I'm almost certain this is how Apple sees it.

I am not saying it's necessarily a bad idea, and there is a slight chance Apple might do it - but I really doubt it. Besides, just think about it - they don't refresh keyboards that often, and when they were working on the new Magic Keyboard last year, the Touch Bar was in development for a while - if they had plans of putting it on the keyboard, they wouldn't put the new Magic Keyboard out, they would wait a year and come out with the TB model. Also, one more thing to consider - the Touch Bar is expensive. It's basically a touch-screen computer with it's own chip. Magic Keyboard is $99. A Touch Bar version would probably be $199-$250. I think that's a bit too much for a keyboard - even for Apple.

So, I don't think we'll see a Touchbar version of the Magic Keyboard soon - if ever. Eventually, it may come to the 12" MacBook.

With all respect, how does the current touchbar not require you to look at it when using it (was playing it for about an hour in Apple store)? It requires my full attention even for functions I would activate with muscle memory (i.e. scr brightness/ volume control). Having a simulation on an iPad is quite different from mounting it directly on top of the number key rows, and apparently it is going to be very cumbersome to manipulate.

Meanwhile, Apple would not create an entire new function and not deploy it across their product range, see how TouchID have eventually moved into PCs. I am quite confident a TB magic keyboard is around the corner but how much Apple is charge a premium on it is an entirely different story.

 

[aevan]

With all respect, how does the current touchbar not require you to look at it when using it (was playing it for about an hour in Apple store)? It requires my full attention even for functions I would activate with muscle memory (i.e. scr brightness/ volume control). Having a simulation on an iPad is quite different from mounting it directly on top of the number key rows, and apparently it is going to be very cumbersome to manipulate.

Meanwhile, Apple would not create an entire new function and not deploy it across their product range, see how TouchID have eventually moved into PCs. I am quite confident a TB magic keyboard is around the corner but how much Apple is charge a premium on it is an entirely different story.

Well, I disagree - not that it wouldn't work, but just that I have a feeling Apple intentionally put it exactly there near the screen and would not put it anywhere else. Yeah, you have to look on the Touch Bar, but the eye travel is way shorter than between an iMac and it's keyboard. Again - I wouldn't mind having it near the keyboard, and no one really knows what Apple is going to do - but I'm almost certain they won't do it. I don't have to agree with their decisions, but I can "guesstimate" what they will and will not do.

We'll just have to wait and see. But don't hold your breath for this one.

 

[therealseebs]

I agree. I'm glad you finally realized that most users will enjoy the Touch Bar after using it for awhile and after developers have had time to add their spin to it.

Given that it's completely obvious that this isn't what the person meant, it seems like you're derisively pretending people said something other than what they said to score points in a forum argument. Does that kind of treatment of other people usually get you results you want?

Why are you so emotionally invested in the belief that other people have to like the things you like?

 

[kevinkyoo]

There is a good chance Apple will never bring Touch Bar to the keyboard. There is a reason they placed it directly below the screen, as an extension of that screen. It's inside the peripheral vision. This was a topic in the latest (I think) ATP podcast, they tried that touch-bar simulator for the iPad on the iMac and they say it was a really bad experience (not because it was a simulator, but because you constantly had to look up and down). I believe them, and I'm almost certain this is how Apple sees it.

I am not saying it's necessarily a bad idea, and there is a slight chance Apple might do it - but I really doubt it. Besides, just think about it - they don't refresh keyboards that often, and when they were working on the new Magic Keyboard last year, the Touch Bar was in development for a while - if they had plans of putting it on the keyboard, they wouldn't put the new Magic Keyboard out, they would wait a year and come out with the TB model. Also, one more thing to consider - the Touch Bar is expensive. It's basically a touch-screen computer with it's own chip. Magic Keyboard is $99. A Touch Bar version would probably be $199-$250. I think that's a bit too much for a keyboard - even for Apple.

So, I don't think we'll see a Touchbar version of the Magic Keyboard soon - if ever. Eventually, it may come to the 12" MacBook.
[doublepost=1479487349][/doublepost]


Almost everything you said is just your personal opinion. I disagree completely on 7 out of 8 points you made.

First - more and more people are realizing that they want to switch to Apple. Apple sells more phones, tablets and computers than any other competitor every year, and that difference is actually growing.

As for the rest:

1) Love that keyboard
2) Not attractive, but prettier than any other battery case. And more practical.
3) Pencil is the BEST stylus ever made, and you charge it with the adapter. When you need to charge it on the go, that charging method is actually really useful. Really.
4) No big deal. Really.
5) Collector's item. As someone already mentioned - CE Making of Stanley Kubrick's 2001 book costs $1250! And there are even more expensive collector's books!
6) Em.... maybe just the price. Nothing else, really.
7) Happens to every manufacturer out there - in fact, more to others.
8) This is the only thing I agree with.

BTW, Apple is faaaaaar from dying.

Are you really comparing a limited run of one of the most famous space movies, to a mass-produced picture book?

 

[Bryan Bowler]

Given that it's completely obvious that this isn't what the person meant, it seems like you're derisively pretending people said something other than what they said to score points in a forum argument. Does that kind of treatment of other people usually get you results you want?

Why are you so emotionally invested in the belief that other people have to like the things you like?

LOL! Relax man. I'm not bothered at all that you despise the Touch Bar. Nor am I treating anyone poorly. I'm just suggesring that the vast majority of actual users will find it far more useful than what we had before. You'll see!

 

[aevan]

Given that it's completely obvious that this isn't what the person meant, it seems like you're derisively pretending people said something other than what they said to score points in a forum argument. Does that kind of treatment of other people usually get you results you want?

Why are you so emotionally invested in the belief that other people have to like the things you like?

Not to speak on his behalf, but this has become a common response here. No one cares what other people here like or dislike - but Apple criticizers here love to speak for everyone, claiming that something is an obvious failure or that no one is going to use feature X, etc.

So, it's a bit reactionary, I think.

Are you really comparing a limited run of one of the most famous space movies, to a mass-produced picture book?

I am just explaining what collector books are to you, because it looks like you don't know.

 

[kevinkyoo]

Not to speak on his behalf, but this has become a common response here. No one cares what other people here like or dislike - but Apple criticizers here love to speak for everyone, claiming that something is an obvious failure or that no one is going to use feature X, etc.

So, it's a bit reactionary, I think.



I am just explaining what collector books are to you, because it looks like you don't know.

I'm sorry, but you really can't think that these books from Apple are collector's items... Do you? I own some myself. They're limited, sought after. Apple mass-produced these books, and there is no high demand for them. So I'll have to ask you, do YOU really think it's a collector's item? Because if you do, that's a joke.

 

[aevan]

I'm sorry, but you really can't think that these books from Apple are collector's items... Do you? I own some myself. They're limited, sought after. Apple mass-produced these books, and there is no high demand for them. So I'll have to ask you, do YOU really think it's a collector's item? Because if you do, that's a joke.

But it is in limited quantity and sold at select Apple stores. I honestly don't know what the demand is going to be, but I'm guessing there are a lot of Apple collectors out there who would want one. How are you so certain there won't be a demand - other than the fact that you're full of emotions over this whole Apple thing

 

[kevinkyoo]

But it is in limited quantity and sold at select Apple stores. I honestly don't know what the demand is going to be, but I'm guessing there are a lot of Apple collectors out there who would want one. How are you so certain there won't be a demand - other than the fact that you're full of emotions over this whole Apple thing

Hm, I love how your defense is: 1) I am "full of emotions of this whole Apple thing," and 2) "I don't know if there's a demand, but there's limited quantities." It's funny when you try to have a conversation with someone, and the, "Wow, calm down" is always the response.

Having "limited" quantities (Even though they are in every Apple store, and will restock when they are "sold out") is only one part of the equation. Having high demand is also another part for it to be a collector's item. If you take it to the other extreme, are iPhone 7+ Jet Black models collector's items then? High demand, low quantity? No, because Apple continuously pumps these things out.

If I look at a figurine that I own, it is one of 1500. It will no longer be produced, and there is a high demand for it, as well as a market. Therefore, it is a collector's item.

But sure, go grab one of those Apple books for $300, and let me know how much of a collector's item it is 5 years from now.

 

[aevan]

Hm, I love how your defense is: 1) I am "full of emotions of this whole Apple thing," and 2) "I don't know if there's a demand, but there's limited quantities." It's funny when you try to have a conversation with someone, and the, "Wow, calm down" is always the response.

Having "limited" quantities (Even though they are in every Apple store, and will restock when they are "sold out") is only one part of the equation. Having high demand is also another part for it to be a collector's item. If you take it to the other extreme, are iPhone 7+ Jet Black models collector's items then? High demand, low quantity? No, because Apple continuously pumps these things out.

If I look at a figurine that I own, it is one of 1500. It will no longer be produced, and there is a high demand for it, as well as a market. Therefore, it is a collector's item.

But sure, go grab one of those Apple books for $300, and let me know how much of a collector's item it is 5 years from now.

I am not grabbing one of those books. All I said is - books can cost a lot of money if they are wanted by collectors. If there is demand for them. I think a lot of fans will buy this book. I won't. Still - ok, you win - I'll give you this one. They made an over-priced book that no one will buy. Fine, whatever.

You're still wrong about everything else in my opinion. Enjoy your innovative Microsoft I'll stick to my MacBook Pro, when it arrives.

 

[kevinkyoo]

I am not grabbing one of those books. All I said is - books can cost a lot of money if they are wanted by collectors. If there is demand for them. I think a lot of fans will buy this book. I won't. Still - ok, you win - I'll give you this one. They made an over-priced book that no one will buy. Fine, whatever.

You're still wrong about everything else in my opinion. Enjoy your innovative Microsoft I'll stick to my MacBook Pro, when it arrives.

So your opinion is right, but my opinion is wrong? Aren't these just opinions at the end of the day? Thanks for showing your true colors.

I'll enjoy my Macbook Air and built PC that can outperform the overpriced machine you paid for. But sure, let's categorize every person who criticizes as "MUH WINDOWS" user.

Pathetic.

 

[aevan]

So your opinion is right, but my opinion is wrong? Aren't these just opinions at the end of the day? Thanks for showing your true colors.

I'll enjoy my Macbook Air and built PC that can outperform the overpriced machine you paid for. But sure, let's categorize every person who criticizes as "MUH WINDOWS" user.

Pathetic.

You're putting words in my mouth. I never said your opinion is wrong. I said it's just that - your opinion. It's probably right for you. I don't think you're wrong, just that your claims are not universally true. They are not for me.

Like, when you say "overpriced machine" - it's not overpriced in my opinion. It all comes down to personal value, if you value that machine so much that you're willing to pay for it, it's not overpriced.

Same for "outperforming". If you just care about technical specs, then maybe you have a PC that can "outperform" my Mac. But what about outperforming in mobility, weight, autonomy, quality of screen (I'm sure you have a P3 screen for your PC, right?), ease of use, etc. Again, everything you're saying is highly subjective - and not universally true. It's true for you. The only time you're wrong - is when you claim any of these things are objectively true.

As I said, enjoy your innovative Microsoft

 

[therealseebs]

The "go and buy something else" attitude won't be one that Apple has. They won't want to watch their customers go elsewhere.

I think at this point they've made it clear that they want some of their customers to go elsewhere. They want to sell to people who value particular traits heavily, and especially "style". Because if you're selling people an upgraded GPU, every machine you ship has to cost a bit more to make. If you're selling "style", it's free once you've done the design.

So if they try to compete on hardware specs or functionality, they're up against other comparable machines, and they have to cut costs or make things obviously better. Those hurt profit.

If they make a machine which can't use any existing hardware, then you have to choose between that machine and Everything Else. You get stuck in their ecosystem, at least for a while, and you can't even make the comparison on specs or functionality, because the machines just don't compare at all. How much is the Retina display worth? No one knows! It's not an option in other hardware, so you don't have any way to compare otherwise-identical machines some of which have Retina displays and some which don't. You can't come up with a clear evaluation of how much that "upgrade" is worth.

That's why you couldn't get a non-Retina display on the Retina MBP, or vice versa; they had to make it so that you couldn't do the head-to-head comparison, because if you could, people would start pricing it out and deciding what it was worth. Instead, you get the Retina machine, which has no ethernet but has better cooling than old models, and the non-Retina, which is totally different. You can't do a meaningful comparison anymore, so they can stick a number on it and have people say "oh, that seems reasonable, there's nothing like it I can compare it with".

Thing is, the customers who want all those features and will comparison-shop? You can't make a ton of money off them usually, because if you were making a ton of profit off them, someone else would see that, and undercut you. And Apple's currently very focused on maximizing profit, not revenue. If they can sell a $3k machine and make $600 on it, or a $2.5k machine they make $1k on, they're gonna do the second, because that's a lot more profitable.

That's why the ipods and iphones have never let you upgrade or replace storage, or even use cards, and never will. Because if you could do that, you wouldn't be paying Apple $100-200 for flash storage you could buy for $50 elsewhere. Their profits would go down.

And they miss a lot of sales with this, yes. But say you could sell 100 items and make a profit of $200 on each, or 1000 items and make a profit of $15 on each. You make more profit with the smaller, but very profitable, market. And keep in mind that the profit margin swings a lot faster than price does. Say it costs you $300/item to make the things. Sale price difference, $500 vs. $315, that's not even twice as expensive. Profit, $200 vs. $15, that's more than 10x the profit.

I think this is a short-term strategy by nature, though. In particular, developers are disproportionately likely to be in the unwanted category of "people who pay too much attention to technical details". I've seen a few people who develop apps I care about losing interest over this. I'm losing interest, and there's a thing I did for iOS/Android a while back, and I was gonna make the rework do desktops also... And I may not bother with Mac. Two years from now, I almost certainly wouldn't do the Mac port, because by then I expect to have finished migrating.

So, Apple absolutely wants to watch a lot of customers go elsewhere. They've made this clear and it's been a big part of their product strategy for several years now. I just think it's a short-sighted strategy that risks moving them back to the days where every Apple headline had to use the word "beleaguered". They have a ton of cash, but I think they're starting to lose market share pretty noticably again.

As a data point, I basically hate Android, but even though I have an iphone, my primary phone number stays on Android, because of things like "can put in a micro-SD card".

 

[aevan]

Thing is, the customers who want all those features and will comparison-shop? You can't make a ton of money off them usually, because if you were making a ton of profit off them, someone else would see that, and undercut you. And Apple's currently very focused on maximizing profit, not revenue. If they can sell a $3k machine and make $600 on it, or a $2.5k machine they make $1k on, they're gonna do the second, because that's a lot more profitable.

Interesting. Can you explain that to someone who is not versed in economy stuff? Why is earning $600 on $3k product better than a $1k on a $2.5k product? (honest question).

 

[CreativeC]

It all comes down to personal value, if you value that machine so much that you're willing to pay for it, it's not overpriced.

You're absolutely right, sir. Indeed, I myself believe Apple should charge much, much more for their products, as they are worth so much more that what Apple, merciful, is selling them for.

Apple makes sublime products that are surpassed only by successive iterations of the same products. Every time I am outside with my iMac people stare at me like I am a god among humans. As I pass by, I must remind these peasants that no, I am no god and that Apple is the all mighty, the know-it-all.

As I go around exploring this beautiful world I can easily share every moment with my family thanks to the magnanimous Apple, which no wrong can do.

I am humbled as how every Apple miracle (commonly called "devices" by non-believers) is perfectly and playfully integrated with each other, as one would expect from the all-knowing Apple.

Let's talk about beauty. Our eyes will need to be modified to allow the full spectrum of light to be able to fully appreciate how gorgeous, sublime and mesmerizing all Apple's products are designed from a single, united and focused universal mind of creation.

I simply cannot wait to interact with all these miracles of creation, and I hope some day I can also use my limited mind to integrate all of my mind's creations so well.

Overpriced? Nonsense. This is art. Godly art.