Why the video pros are moving away from Apple

[KnightWRX]

Exactly, that's my point. Companies cannot plan to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a platform that may (or may not) run the risk of being killed off.

That's an issue that "forum analysts", being mostly consumers, can't really see and it's why it always comes back in these threads. "But it's ok, Apple hasn't abandonned it yet, just wait, it's coming!" is fine if you're a consumer holding out for an upgrade that might or might not come, but for a business, this is simply unacceptable.

The consumers can't really tell as they don't have the Enterprise or SMB experience to know that businesses need to plan ahead. IT is IT, and it's the most misunderstood business out there. Everyone outside of the business thinks its as simple as setting up a PC or Mac at home.

 

[steve2112]

That's an issue that "forum analysts", being mostly consumers, can't really see and it's why it always comes back in these threads. "But it's ok, Apple hasn't abandonned it yet, just wait, it's coming!" is fine if you're a consumer holding out for an upgrade that might or might not come, but for a business, this is simply unacceptable.

The consumers can't really tell as they don't have the Enterprise or SMB experience to know that businesses need to plan ahead. IT is IT, and it's the most misunderstood business out there. Everyone outside of the business thinks its as simple as setting up a PC or Mac at home.

It always amuses me when people try to project normal end-user/home user mentality onto enterprises. A few years back, I was the SAN administrator where I worked, and I continually had people asking why we couldn't easily add space to the SAN. Most people seemed to think that since they could buy a 1TB drive dirt cheap at Best Buy, then why couldn't we just drop a few of those in and increase our space.

Where I work now has several hundred Macs on our network. Because of Apple's recent decisions, we are having serious issues. We use SmartCard authentication, yet Apple dropped native SmartCard support in Lion. We were even having issues using third party software. The rumors are that 10.7.3 will supposedly fix some of these errors, but we really don't know. In the mean time, we have had to delay rolling out new Macs to users until this gets resolved. We also have a few XServes, and we are still trying to figure out what we are going to do when those hit EOL.

 

[rhett7660]

When has Apple ever given a clear road map for any of it's products*? They never have and I doubt they ever will.

When did they give us a map on the release points for FCP?
When did they give us a map on the release points of Aperture?
When did they give us a map on the release points for the Mac Pro's, Mini's, MBA, MBP?

They haven't, so why all of sudden is this different?



*Unless this product is announced at an event, but then again sometimes they are not very clear then either.

 

[maflynn]

When did they give us a map on the release points of Aperture?

Apple's lack of attention or communication for Aperture is one major reason why I stopped using Aperture and to Lightroom. With Adobe there's more of an openness to where things are going.

I do not want to use a product that will suddenly orphaned and I have thousands of images I would need to convert over. When I had the opportunity, I jumped ship.

I can see video professionals doing the same

 

[KnightWRX]

They haven't, so why all of sudden is this different?

It's different because Apple has started actively dropping pro/enterprise software/hardware in the recent months/years. Before, they were releasing and updating stuff and while not having a roadmap was not ideal, you knew stuff was coming.

Now, you're left wondering if your stuff is next on the chopping block or not.

 

[firestarter]

They haven't, so why all of sudden is this different?

It's only in the last couple of years that Apple has become so dominant in the consumer space.

For all the time up to that point, they seemed genuinely anxious for people's business - especially professionals. Yes, their secrecy wasn't ideal - but at least their ambition seemed to be in line with what creative professionals were looking for. You can have some level of trust in a company that genuinely needs and wants your business.

That ambition is now seriously under question. The XServe issue, FCP X, price cutting on Aperture, lack of updates on Logic, Mac Pro rumors... everything is pointing towards them downscaling their Pro lineup. People are assuming they'll be left high and dry. If Apple still want to play in this market, they have a credibility gap they now need to fill.

This has been a clear change - and it's only happened recently.

 

[simsaladimbamba]

There are still a lot of DCC applications running on Mac OS X though, and if Apple does not abandon the Mac Pro, which is just waiting for the Sandy Bridge based Xeons being released in Q1/2012, one can still use the Mac OS X platform to create digital content.

I know a variety of companies, that use Mac OS X, but rely on applications not made by Apple, thus those companies can still use Macs for the foreseeable future. But if Apple decides to abandon the Mac Pro, I assume those companies will switch to Linux or Windows, as an iMac is not cut our for the needs of those companies.

As I also use applications not made by Apple, like Avid MC or After Effects and some others, I can still use Mac OS X, though the arrival of Lion has seriously hampered my future purchases, as I am limited to 2011 Macs to run Snow Leopard on them, and until there is no good alternative to Spaces and Exposé (small, but powerful feature), I guess, I have to look elsewhere, or into Hackintoshing.

 

[rhett7660]

Apple's lack of attention or communication for Aperture is one major reason why I stopped using Aperture and to Lightroom. With Adobe there's more of an openness to where things are going.

I do not want to use a product that will suddenly orphaned and I have thousands of images I would need to convert over. When I had the opportunity, I jumped ship.

I can see video professionals doing the same

It's different because Apple has started actively dropping pro/enterprise software/hardware in the recent months/years. Before, they were releasing and updating stuff and while not having a roadmap was not ideal, you knew stuff was coming.

Now, you're left wondering if your stuff is next on the chopping block or not.

It's only in the last couple of years that Apple has become so dominant in the consumer space.

For all the time up to that point, they seemed genuinely anxious for people's business - especially professionals. Yes, their secrecy wasn't ideal - but at least their ambition seemed to be in line with what creative professionals were looking for. You can have some level of trust in a company that genuinely needs and wants your business.

That ambition is now seriously under question. The XServe issue, FCP X, price cutting on Aperture, lack of updates on Logic, Mac Pro rumors... everything is pointing towards them downscaling their Pro lineup. People are assuming they'll be left high and dry. If Apple still want to play in this market, they have a credibility gap they now need to fill.

This has been a clear change - and it's only happened recently.

Fair enough...... This was a question and not a snarky remark. Thank you.

 

[chaosbunny]

Apple's consumer-centric formula is built to last.

I'm only 32 but I have seen enough cool and trendy consumer goods companies turning from the hippest thing on the planet to irrelevance within a couple of years. No company, not even Apple, is immune to this. Trends change quickly and the bigger you get, the harder it is to follow or even be ahead.

Extremely neglecting a loyal base of buyers in favor of a rapidly changing market that can't be owned forever is a bad strategy.

I don't even see what's the problem. It's not like we are asking Apple to stop making iPads and iPhones and iOS. Apple is big enough to create beautiful hard- & software for both the consumer and the creative professional.

 

[*LTD*]

Extremely neglecting a loyal base of buyers

They apparently aren't significant enough. Very few, if anyone in this market, can survive solely from catering to a shrinking niche like the "Pro" segment. Apple simply isn't in that business, they are not in any respect like Avid, for example, nor is the Pro market the same as it was 15 years ago.

You can have a certain segment of your customer base who is fiercely loyal (allegedly, based on some subjective measure of emotion - I suppose we can go with that), but if that segment isn't large enough or profitable enough, there's no point.

Again, Apple and many others approach these situations not from a perspective of charity and reward (for being "loyal" in the past or whatever), but from a costs vs. benefit analysis. The reason Apple is still in business today (among other things) is because they employ this analysis with precision and ruthlessness, and know exactly a) where the money is at any given time, and b) how to target the market involved in order to get it. The result is often shake-up and redefinition of that market, with the entire industry moving in step shortly after.

You can call consumers "fickle" all you like, but if a company keeps understanding how they think, how to press their "want" buttons over the passage of time, then there is no reason they can't continue to be successful. Apple succeeds because they know how to re-invent their business over and over again. Contrast this with others, like RIM, for example.

 

[firestarter]

They apparently aren't significant enough. Very few, if anyone in this market, can survive solely from catering to a shrinking niche like the "Pro" segment. Apple simply isn't in that business, they are not in any respect like Avid, for example, nor is the Pro market the same as it was 15 years ago.

You're like a broken record *LTD*. You keep on repeating the same stuff with no evidence...

 

[belvdr]

You're like a broken record *LTD*. You keep on repeating the same stuff with no evidence...

To sum it up, the also-rans have a race to the bottom without veritcal integration. I think those are the key terms of every post. Nobody knows Apple's strategies or goals for the next few years, so we'll just need to wait it out.

Anyway, sort of on topic, if Lightroom is the default alternative to Aperture, then will they ever get facial recognition? Just curious as I have looked at Aperture 3 and was not pleased with performance or memory consumption at all.

 

[*LTD*]

You're like a broken record *LTD*. You keep on repeating the same stuff with no evidence...

Apparently, given recent events and the opinion of Pros (for a few years now) we don't have an absence of evidence. It does appear that Apple has indeed been moving away from the Pro segment and toward the much larger and profitable Prosumer segment. Apple does not need to announce this for it to happen.

Given this, we're exploring possible reasons.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

They apparently aren't significant enough. Very few, if anyone in this market, can survive solely from catering to a shrinking niche like the "Pro" segment. Apple simply isn't in that business, they are not in any respect like Avid, for example, nor is the Pro market the same as it was 15 years ago.

Please provide proof that the market is shrinking. You seem to be making stuff up there.

I see more signs that the market is growing not shrinking. You have more and more big budget productions. More things now need to use this work. You have things like video games which are going to use it which in the past that was only a pipe dream. Reality TV shows make massive use of it. They farm that work out to studios for editing.
The list goes on. The market is growing not shrinking.

LTD you seem to be more making stuff up to support the RDF and justify Apple.

Apple is no longer even going prosumer. Final cut X is for wanna be prosumers. Not prosumers but even lower to the wannabes. This group that wants to be like the pros but do not have the skill nor basic understanding of the theory on what makes good video and editing.

 

[chaosbunny]

You can call consumers "fickle" all you like, but if a company keeps understanding how they think, how to press their "want" buttons over the passage of time, then there is no reason they can't continue to be successful. Apple succeeds because they know how to re-invent their business over and over again. Contrast this with others, like RIM, for example.

No company keeps "understanding how they think", what was cool and trendy 20 years ago wasn't cool and trendy 10 years ago. What was cool 10 years ago isn't cool anymore. But maybe you are right, Apple will be the first company to stay cool and trendy forever ...

Serving different markets is a good strategy, because you never know what happens in a couple of years. If Sony had focused only on the walkman 20 years ago they would be pretty much gone right now.

But please go ahead believing the pro market isn't profitable anymore. I'm sure companies like Adobe, Maxon, Autodesk, etc. would love to hear your analysis.

Your posts always make me laugh, so please continue.

 

[AppleScruff1]

They apparently aren't significant enough. Very few, if anyone in this market, can survive solely from catering to a shrinking niche like the "Pro" segment. Apple simply isn't in that business, they are not in any respect like Avid, for example, nor is the Pro market the same as it was 15 years ago.

You can have a certain segment of your customer base who is fiercely loyal (allegedly, based on some subjective measure of emotion - I suppose we can go with that), but if that segment isn't large enough or profitable enough, there's no point.

Again, Apple and many others approach these situations not from a perspective of charity and reward (for being "loyal" in the past or whatever), but from a costs vs. benefit analysis. The reason Apple is still in business today (among other things) is because they employ this analysis with precision and ruthlessness, and know exactly a) where the money is at any given time, and b) how to target the market involved in order to get it. The result is often shake-up and redefinition of that market, with the entire industry moving in step shortly after.

You can call consumers "fickle" all you like, but if a company keeps understanding how they think, how to press their "want" buttons over the passage of time, then there is no reason they can't continue to be successful. Apple succeeds because they know how to re-invent their business over and over again. Contrast this with others, like RIM, for example.

How involved are you in the pro market? More than those who earn their living at it? Why not fill us in on your credentials?

 

[Simplicated]

I'm not a pro in the video market, but I see the reason why FCPX is met with opprobrium and all the pros are so raged. Seeing a program that you used to make a living with being turned into something redolent of iMovie with all the features you relied on axed by a company who once cared about you but now throws you to the curbside must be infuriating.

The signs were stark when Xserve was killed. And since then they have only become increasingly obvious with every move that Apple did to the pro/business market (and allow me to mention Mac OS X Lion). Yet some rabid Apple fans, who I believe are just regular consumers using the hottest gadgets of the year, are blindly following and trying to justify whatever Apple does.

Apple, as a multibillion-dollor company, have all the resources at their disposal to maintain the markets they catered to and they are catering to. Yet they are blatantly and presumptuously ignore a market where the users are loyal and true Apple fans. Consumers follow trends, pros and enterprises follow something they've grown accustomed to. I hope Apple learns this.

P.S. I really appreciate the comments made here so far, they are true signs of sanity within the Apple fanbase. I am fed up with all the screaming fanboys on other forums.

 

[*LTD*]

How involved are you in the pro market? More than those who earn their living at it? Why not fill us in on your credentials?

You don't need to have any credentials to see where the wind is blowing for Apple.

 

[ender land]

You don't need to have any credentials to see where the wind is blowing for Apple.

Apparently, you do.

 

[Stella]

How involved are you in the pro market? More than those who earn their living at it? Why not fill us in on your credentials?

LTD's purpose for coming on these topics is purely for baiting people and stiring things up.

 

[belvdr]

You don't need to have any credentials to see where the wind is blowing for Apple.

Okay, so you have no credentials (i.e. clueless) and there's definitely some wind blowing.

How about some unbiased facts about how the market is shrinking? I don't know myself, as I don't deal with video, so I don't make claims about the market. My hunch is you don't either.

Also, you keep saying loyal is a bad thing. Many enterprises are loyal to brands. Just look at Oracle (unfortunately for me) and you'll see how well it's done for them so far.

 

[AppleScruff1]

You don't need to have any credentials to see where the wind is blowing for Apple.

You should have credentials to tell the pros what to do. If not, they might not take you seriously. You post as an expert on the subject, so this really is a fair question.

Okay, so you have no credentials (i.e. clueless) and there's definitely some wind blowing.

How about some unbiased facts about how the market is shrinking? I don't know myself, as I don't deal with video, so I don't make claims about the market. My hunch is you don't either.

Also, you keep saying loyal is a bad thing. Many enterprises are loyal to brands. Just look at Oracle (unfortunately for me) and you'll see how well it's done for them so far.

If loyalty is such a bad thing, why is he so blindly loyal to everything Apple?

 

[*LTD*]

You should have credentials to tell the pros what to do.

I don't care what they do. All they need to do is understand the basis of Apple's decisions - which really aren't so unique. If we agree that Apple is moving away from the Pro market (and by the looks of it they are), then it's obvious they aren't doing it because they've suddenly gone crazy or because they're being controlled by reptoid aliens. The most reasonable and likely answer is that they simply don't regard the segment as important as it once was (to them), or as profitable, and on that basis not worth any additional time or resources. This sort of thing happens all the time. I can't really think of any other reason. The Prosumer segment is certainly growing, and in terms of profitability and sustainability might be a better choice over the long term in terms of continued growth.

If you think Apple is making huge mistake despite all that, that's a different conversation altogether.

The fact that the Pro segment *was* at one point loyal to Apple doesn't fundamentally change Apple's analysis. Anyone can be loyal, and by the looks of it - and all the clever references to "iSheep" on these forums - Apple has no shortage of loyal users.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

How involved are you in the pro market? More than those who earn their living at it? Why not fill us in on your credentials?

he is not.

I already ask for proof that it is shrinking par his claim and not surprising LTD does not even respond to it. Something that was laid out to rip apart his entire argument.

 

[AppleScruff1]

I don't care what they do. All they need to do is understand the basis of Apple's decisions - which really aren't so unique. If we agree that Apple is moving away from the Pro market (and by the looks of it they are), then it's obvious they aren't doing it because they've suddenly gone crazy or because they're being controlled by reptoid aliens. The most reasonable and likely answer is that they simply don't regard the segment as important as it once was (to them), or as profitable, and on that basis not worth any additional time or resources. This sort of thing happens all the time. I can't really think of any other reason. The Prosumer segment is certainly growing, and in terms of profitability and sustainability might be a better choice over the long term in terms of continued growth.

If you think Apple is making huge mistake despite all that, that's a different conversation altogether.

The fact that the Pro segment *was* at one point loyal to Apple doesn't fundamentally change Apple's analysis. Anyone can be loyal, and by the looks of it - and all the clever references to "iSheep" on these forums - Apple has no shortage of loyal users.

What is your definition of a Prosumer?