Why the video pros are moving away from Apple

[Hellhammer]

Anyone can be loyal, and by the looks of it - and all the clever references to "iSheep" on these forums - Apple has no shortage of loyal users.

That's different kind of loyalism. Consumers don't have thousands invested on OS X software like pros do. It's not a big deal to buy Angry Birds again for Android but it starts to be expensive when you need to switch from Final Cut to Windows alternative and so on. You might even have to take classes if you're forced to use new software, and that's expensive. Some companies like Adobe allow the license to be transferred to Mac but last time I checked, they require the latest version of that software so e.g. Photoshop CS4 couldn't be transferred. Thus you would have to spend money on CS5 upgrade. That's why switching a platform is a lot bigger deal for pros than it is for consumers.

Consumer loyalism is based on an opinion and preference. Those change and can do so very quickly. I used to be "all-Apple" and thought everything they make is the best (you can find my old posts to see this). Then I realized that some of the products they make don't actually suit my needs as well as a competitive product would, so I switched. I still own and use Apple products, though. If I had invested thousands on software, then I couldn't just have switched on a whim.

 

[chaosbunny]

Consumer loyalism is based on an opinion and preference. Those change and can do so very quickly. I used to be "all-Apple" and thought everything they make is the best (you can find my old posts to see this). Then I realized that some of the products they make don't actually suit my needs as well as a competitive product would, so I switched. I still own and use Apple products, though. If I had invested thousands on software, then I couldn't just have switched on a whim.

Exactly my feelings.

I used to praise Apples displays back in the day, but now I have a matte 27" Dell on my desk because I get a headache from using Apples glossy sceens for 10 hours. I used to praise Apples notebooks because they were perfect for me, now after more than 10 years of all-Apple hardware I'm seriously considering a hp envy 15 for my next laptop. I hope my early 2008 mbp will last for 2 more years though.

I still like my iPhone, but I love my Mac Pro. It's the only Apple product left that suits me 100%.

 

[THX1139]

I still like my iPhone, but I love my Mac Pro. It's the only Apple product left that suits me 100%.

Exactly. And if they discontinue the Macpro, or continue to neglect it, then the only reason to stay with Apple is for the toys.

I have been a Mac user since 1994. Never have I owned a Windows box. But now for the first time, I'm considering making the switch. I'm in the media development business and everything I need runs on Windows. Even software I don't use, but would like to use, runs on Windows or Linux only. I almost switched a few years ago because I wanted to learn some 3d software that wasn't available on the Mac, but I stayed with Apple because of Final Cut Pro. That isn't much of a reason anymore.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

The fact that the Pro segment *was* at one point loyal to Apple doesn't fundamentally change Apple's analysis. Anyone can be loyal, and by the looks of it - and all the clever references to "iSheep" on these forums - Apple has no shortage of loyal users.

Par as normal LTD you have confused consumer market with the loyal people.
The loyal people stick with a company threw the good and bad times. The iSheep crowd you can not say the same things for it. FOr when things go bad they will leave.

Consumer market can and does change at a drop of a hat and to top it off the rim and reason for the change makes zero sense what so ever. What is hot one day is cold and crap the next day. Yes it changes that quickly. A company can and has been on top in its industry for over 10 years then all of a sudden the winds changed and it went from hot to cold in a drop of a hat. It is never a question of if it will happen but when and yes it will happen to Apple. The question is always when will it happen.

Apple strong hold on each market is weakening. Apple setting the standard for mobile phones as passed. It has brought reality little new to the table for years. Siri is a gimmicky at best right now. The way of using the OS is old. Hell the grid lay out for the basic interface has been in use now for well over 10 years.
It control over the tablet market can and is only going one direction and that is down. Yes they started it off strong but their own control issues allows others to come in and start stealing market. That market will become Android and Windows 8 controlled.

 

[Eidorian]

Those change and can do so very quickly. I used to be "all-Apple" and thought everything they make is the best (you can find my old posts to see this). Then I realized that some of the products they make don't actually suit my needs as well as a competitive product would, so I switched. I still own and use Apple products, though. If I had invested thousands on software, then I couldn't just have switched on a whim.

I share a similar experience.

 

[Mac2012]

The difference is in the transition paths. When Apple introduced FCPX, it took quite a bit of whining for them to reintroduce FCP7 licensing.

When they cut out the Xserve, they offered a joke of a replacement option (Mac Pro Server or Mac Mini Server... where's the VMWare option on proper hardware ?).

When they intro'ed OS X, they didn't even make it the default OS on their shipping hardware. When they finally did, it had implemented the missing features and it still had the Classic mode to run OS 9 applications.

If you really don't see the difference in these transitions and how they were done, then I can't explain to you why 2 of those look like Apple abandonning a niche, vs one of them showing a proper transition to new technology.

As usual... speculation. They will add features to FCX... it's inevitable, and distributed farms with mac Minis seem to be a cost effective solution for power users who want to use a Mac.

 

[Stella]

As usual... speculation. They will add features to FCX... it's inevitable, and distributed farms with mac Minis seem to be a cost effective solution for power users who want to use a Mac.

Are you seriously trying to compare a mac mini to a mac pro or Xserve?

Tell me, how can I mount those mac minis in a rack like an Xserve?

 

[Mac2012]

Are you seriously trying to compare a mac mini to a mac pro or Xserve?

Tell me, how can I mount those mac minis in a rack like an Xserve?

I can put about 20 MM's in the same area that ONE MP takes up. And a TB connection can handle drives but I'm talking render farms via ethernet.
I build custom racks for stuff all the time that isn't rack mountable...
20 i7's is some MIPS buddy for the space!
You wanna know something? MM's have SATA 3... MP's have SATA 2! Okay, bye now...
You don't know what you are TALKING ABOUT!

 

[maflynn]

As usual... speculation. They will add features to FCX... it's inevitable

No more speculation then stating they'll add the features to FCPX. The issue is with the removal such integral features for pros, there is little to no reason for them to hope and/or wait for such features. Especially when the competition does this for them.

Why release a product that is not only feature poor, but removed features that pros needed to get the job done. Its not like apple is ignorant of the needs of pros. This has been in development for some time. My opinion is apple knew very well that they were repositioning this product for the consumer/prosumer and not the professionals. Offering a promise to re-add some features after the fact rings a little hollow.

 

[Mac2012]

No more speculation then stating they'll add the features to FCPX. The issue is with the removal such integral features for pros, there is little to no reason for them to hope and/or wait for such features. Especially when the competition does this for them.

Why release a product that is not only feature poor, but removed features that pros needed to get the job done. Its not like apple is ignorant of the needs of pros. This has been in development for some time. My opinion is apple knew very well that they were repositioning this product for the consumer/prosumer and not the professionals. Offering a promise to re-add some features after the fact rings a little hollow.

But it's the foundation for 64 bit... that in itself is an achievement so all they can do now is refine the code, and bring in new features... not rocket science here. look at how many apps that are just coming to fruition in 64 bit... it's a whole new code rewrite, not just a compile.

 

[KnightWRX]

But it's the foundation for 64 bit... that in itself is an achievement so all they can do now is refine the code, and bring in new features... not rocket science here. look at how many apps that are just coming to fruition in 64 bit... it's a whole new code rewrite, not just a compile.

Maybe then they should have properly handled the transition. Things they could have done :

- Wait to have a feature complete 64 bit version before shipping
- Continue to sell/support the old feature complete version along with the new 64 bit version that is incomplete

They didn't. That, combined with the XServe debacle and other recent moves with Pro software/hardware updates leaves everyone thinking Apple is looking for an exit strategy from the Enterprise/Pro market and focusing more on the consumer/prosumer markets.

Argue about it all you want, that's just the reality of it. People's perception is what is at issue here, and unless Apple does a 180 and starts releasing roadmaps, you're not going to be able to convince people otherwise. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

 

[Papanate]

One could argue that the professional sector is a stable sector if you get entrenched, where as consumers can be rather fickle a bunch.

The Professional Market may indeed be stable - but it is a small percentage of the sales in the computer hardware and software markets.

In the consumer market though...how many billions did Apple make off the iPhone and iPad? And on those two items - how many apps and songs did they move?

Apple appears to be serving the markets that profit them.

 

[*LTD*]

Par as normal LTD you have confused consumer market with the loyal people.
The loyal people stick with a company threw the good and bad times. The iSheep crowd you can not say the same things for it. FOr when things go bad they will leave.

Consumer market can and does change at a drop of a hat and to top it off the rim and reason for the change makes zero sense what so ever. What is hot one day is cold and crap the next day. Yes it changes that quickly. A company can and has been on top in its industry for over 10 years then all of a sudden the winds changed and it went from hot to cold in a drop of a hat. It is never a question of if it will happen but when and yes it will happen to Apple. The question is always when will it happen.

There are countless numbers of "loyal" Apple fans who are *not* Pros, and have been for years.

 

[steve2112]

I can put about 20 MM's in the same area that ONE MP takes up. And a TB connection can handle drives but I'm talking render farms via ethernet.
I build custom racks for stuff all the time that isn't rack mountable...
20 i7's is some MIPS buddy for the space!
You wanna know something? MM's have SATA 3... MP's have SATA 2! Okay, bye now...
You don't know what you are TALKING ABOUT!

That's all fine, but the comparison was to Xserves, not Mac Pros.

Compared to the Mini Server, the Xserves offer:

1) True RAID, with a physical RAID card, not the motherboard-based stuff
2) Redundant power supplies
3) Multiple NICs
4) Much more storage space. Our Xserves are filled with 2TB drives. Try that with a Mini. Yeah, you can get TB RAID arrays or Ethernet NAS devices, but adding a few drives to an XServe is cheaper.

Many of these reasons are also why the MP doesn't cut it as a real server.

 

[KnightWRX]

that's all fine, but the comparison was to xserves, not mac pros.

Compared to the mini server, the xserves offer:

1) true raid, with a physical raid card, not the motherboard-based stuff
2) redundant power supplies
3) multiple nics
4) much more storage space. Our xserves are filled with 2tb drives. Try that with a mini. Yeah, you can get tb raid arrays or ethernet nas devices, but adding a few drives to an xserve is cheaper.

Many of these reasons are also why the mp doesn't cut it as a real server.

lom.

 

[Hellhammer]

I can put about 20 MM's in the same area that ONE MP takes up. And a TB connection can handle drives but I'm talking render farms via ethernet.
I build custom racks for stuff all the time that isn't rack mountable...
20 i7's is some MIPS buddy for the space!
You wanna know something? MM's have SATA 3... MP's have SATA 2! Okay, bye now...
You don't know what you are TALKING ABOUT!

I think you are the one speculating here. Can you provide a source which shows that a Mac Mini render farm is faster and more affordable than Mac Pro? And the source should have tests done on software that pros really use, such as Photoshop, Final Cut, After Effects and so on, not some irrelevant software.

I ask because it's not as simple as connecting two computers via Ethernet and getting the performance of two computers. Or if it was, why isn't anyone doing it? Seriously, Ethernet is 1Gb/s. The memory bandwidth of tri-channel DDR3 is over 100Gb/s (Wikipedia is down so can't check the exact number).

 

[maflynn]

But it's the foundation for 64 bit... that in itself is an achievement so all they can do now is refine the code, and bring in new features.

So what you're saying is that apple should release an incomplete application now that is 64bit and later add features. Why did they add new consumer/prosumer type features, instead of provide feature parity with its older version? Or even better take more time then to release the version that has all the features needed for professionals to get their job done instead of promising that it may make into an update in some unspecified time frame in the future

I'll not argue that the professional segments are not as large as the consumer side of things, but as mentioned consumers are a fickle bunch, what's hot today won't be tomorrow and purposely disregarding specific customer base is troubling.

 

[KnightWRX]

I think you are the one speculating here. Can you provide a source which shows that a Mac Mini render farm is faster and more affordable than Mac Pro? And the source should have tests done on software that pros really use, such as Photoshop, Final Cut, After Effects and so on, not some irrelevant software.

I ask because it's not as simple as connecting two computers via Ethernet and getting the performance of two computers. Or if it was, why isn't anyone doing it? Seriously, Ethernet is 1Gb/s. The memory bandwidth of tri-channel DDR3 is over 100Gb/s (Wikipedia is down so can't check the exact number).

The big hurdle is getting software to behave in a clustering environnement. Not all software is built for active-active clusters, much less is built to scale to a high density of nodes.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

There are countless numbers of "loyal" Apple fans who are *not* Pros, and have been for years.

And if you notice that group is shrinking not growing. Apple is pushing away many of it loyal fan bash and replacing them with iSheep.

 

[steve2112]

lom.

Lights out Management? OR...Laughing Out...Mildly? Morbidly? Maniacally?

The big hurdle is getting software to behave in a clustering environnement. Not all software is built for active-active clusters, much less is built to scale to a high density of nodes.

No kidding. Clustering works fine for something like VMWare or Exchange, but a lot of software flakes out with clustering, or simply can't take advantage of it. Heck, a lot of software won't even take advantage of multiple cores.

 

[Stella]

I can put about 20 MM's in the same area that ONE MP takes up. And a TB connection can handle drives but I'm talking render farms via ethernet.
I build custom racks for stuff all the time that isn't rack mountable...
20 i7's is some MIPS buddy for the space!
You wanna know something? MM's have SATA 3... MP's have SATA 2! Okay, bye now...
You don't know what you are TALKING ABOUT!

20 mac minis maybe you can may be not I don't know off hand the dimensions of either, I'm sure some one could confirm.

Not every company constructs their custom rack
Mounts. In any case it's not very convienent for your regular business.

Maybe ok for you but your thinking of your own world view.

 

[*LTD*]

And if you notice that group is shrinking not growing.

No, I'm not noticing that. In fact, there really is no way to actually determine how many "loyal" Apple users there actually are.

Judging by this, there are probably a lot:

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-09-13/tech/30148272_1_apple-insider-cash-horde-pile

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/09/apple-most-valuable-company/

Not a bad set of measures, but still not indicative of actual lasting loyalty. It could all just be incidental.

Here is the *real* measure that can give us some idea of how Apple is satisfying consumers, thereby creating a situation that encourages loyalty. If Apple can continue doing this, which they have been for years (in a changing market, no less, even during a recession), then it's safe to assume that their loyal customer base is quite wide and will stand the test of time. Simple requirement: Apple must continue to put into practice the basic philosophy concerning people vis-a-vis technology that they have been, and are doing now.

If Apple's basic philosophy doesn't change, then there is no reason to assume a loss of consumer interest to such a degree that they will not be able to maintain a non-Pro loyal consumer base.

https://www.macrumors.com/2011/09/2...isfaction-survey-for-eighth-consecutive-time/

That's for 8 years in a row. This can conceivably continue for another 8 years.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/09/apple-tops-j-d-power-customer-satisfaction-survey-grim-reading/

Apple has been #1 in consumer satisfaction in this area since roughly the iPhone's release.

As long as Apple's presence at the top of the consumer satisfaction reports is a common occurrence (and if they continue with their current strategy, there is no reason to assume it won't be), they can conceivably continue on brand strength alone for a very long time.

All you have to do is is build your strategy around simplicity, attention to detail, and otherwise delighting the consumer. If this strategy doesn't change at Apple, then they have a set of conditions which are ideal for an easy reinvention of Apple's business over and over again. It's a turn-key solution. Apple is already set up for this because they understand how to do vertical integration. All you need is management to ensure these ideas are maintained.

Consumers can't be loyal to bad products (although you can still sell a lot to those who don't care.) The reason Apple maintained a loyal base even during those "tough times", is because they *still* managed to make a quality set of products. Unfortunately, that loyal base of "Pros" was still not enough to prevent the very problems that brought Apple to the brink of disaster. Apple made just enough to keep their heads above water, but not by much, and not for long.

The Pros didn't save Apple. Steve Jobs and NeXT did. Realigning the business to make the consumer the primary focus did. Trimming the product fat did. And of course, a few legal windfalls did.

Consumers can be fickle. But when it comes to Apple, they are demonstrably not. Why? Because Apple has strategies in place to address consumer fickleness effectively. You can't be fickle to a company that consistently makes your interest and satisfaction their primary concern. Who else is doing this in the industry? Not very many outside of Apple, that's for sure. Again, all you need to do is refer to consumer satisfaction news, year after year.

Those who make it their business to understand the consumer will enjoy continued success. For how long? Tough question. Probably a long time, but it's really undetermined. What we *can* be sure of, however, is that this sort of company will be in the best position for it over the long-term, relative to their competition.

Apple strong hold on each market is weakening. Apple setting the standard for mobile phones as passed. It has brought reality little new to the table for years. Siri is a gimmicky at best right now. The way of using the OS is old. Hell the grid lay out for the basic interface has been in use now for well over 10 years.
It control over the tablet market can and is only going one direction and that is down. Yes they started it off strong but their own control issues allows others to come in and start stealing market.

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/14178256/

 

[Rodimus Prime]

https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/14178256/

sorry but the data point they are using is worthless. Get back to me in another 3-4 months and see if holds.

4Q of the year is worthless for tracking iPhones this year as you got a huge one time spike from the pent up demand for the latest iPhone being delayed 3 months. iPhone always get a 1 time spike right after the new one is released from pent up demand. This year you got the spike and most of the big phones from others have were already been released and had been out for a while so you do not get those spikes.

 

[smoledman]

sorry but the data point they are using is worthless. Get back to me in another 3-4 months and see if holds.

4Q of the year is worthless for tracking iPhones this year as you got a huge one time spike from the pent up demand for the latest iPhone being delayed 3 months. iPhone always get a 1 time spike right after the new one is released from pent up demand. This year you got the spike and most of the big phones from others have were already been released and had been out for a while so you do not get those spikes.

Nonsense. The iPhone 4 was selling 17-20 million per quarter before the holiday quarter and the Galaxy Nexus came out at the same time as the 4S. 35 million iPhones per quarter is the new normal, not a spike. If you want to believe iPhones will go back to 20 million, believe that if it makes you comfortable.

Final Cut Pro X users leaving in droves