Why use Windows

[Timepass]

Yes, this is very high end stuff, definitely PC only at this time. My hope is that with the new Bootcamp and Parallels capability, some users at this high end will buy MacPros and run Win on them. And as they get some exposure to MacOS, begin to ask Autodesk, "why don't you write this for mac, so I don't have to buy Windows"?

see I dont see that high end software moving over to OSX. it is just not worth the cost. Some simple cold hard facts get in the way. The Coprate world does not uses Macs. even less so in that sector of the market. And to top it off the software I am talking about is not sold in large numbers and clinets that would use it I thinking a at best 2% or so use mac. Just not worth the money when you may sell 10 units to all the mac users. It just cold hard facts. Plus a lot of those users would complain that it does look pretty and mac like. That and lets say autocad they would complain because god forbid it has a command line. That is so PC like (sorry cheap shot joke I could nt hold back)

Bootcamp is a hack around the larger problem. OSX does not run a lot of much needed software. Parallels by design has to be unstable. You are running a very complex OS on top of another very complex OS which is running on top of other stuff. Anything wrong in ANY of the layers can effect the ones above it and the errors can mangify as you go up. Compared to lets say DOS OSX is very unstable by design because it is complex.

Parallels and bootcamp are both hacks to get around the larger problem that OSX doesnt run the stuff. It that plane and simple. And I dont see that changing in the next 5-10 years in that area of the market.

 

[dsnort]

[Double Post. Mod please delete

 

[dsnort]

Parallels and bootcamp are both hacks to get around the larger problem that OSX doesnt run the stuff. It that plane and simple. And I dont see that changing in the next 5-10 years in that area of the market.

I believe I agreed that Mac OSX doesn't have the selection of software that Windows does. That was a major consideration to my switching to Mac, could I live without my PC only software? Luckily, I could. And I say it was was lucky, because it allowed me to choose my OS. I wasn't forced to it. And I was able to choose what is, IMO, a better computing experience. More intuitive, more stable, lower maintenance. And if everyone could choose, it would be better for all. It word force M$ to come out with better products, which would force Apple to come out with better, which would force M$ to come...... We, the consumer, win.
And don't make the mistake of thinking that corporate world sticks with M$ because they like it. A 2002 study of businesses found that 38% were considering changing platforms due to dissatisfaction with M$. ( Considering, but face huge hurdles of inertia).

http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/18905.html

BTW, I'm pretty sure Bootcamp makes it possible to run Windows natively, no additional layers.
And there are some interesting developments for running Windows apps on Mac OS natively, without Windows. ( Very limited so far, but a step in the right direction)

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/213308/

 

[Dane D.]

Timepass:
see I dont see that high end software moving over to OSX. it is just not worth the cost. Some simple cold hard facts get in the way. The Coprate world does not uses Macs. even less so in that sector of the market. And to top it off the software I am talking about is not sold in large numbers and clinets that would use it I thinking a at best 2% or so use mac. Just not worth the money when you may sell 10 units to all the mac users. It just cold hard facts. Plus a lot of those users would complain that it does look pretty and mac like. That and lets say autocad they would complain because god forbid it has a command line. That is so PC like (sorry cheap shot joke I could nt hold back)

Bootcamp is a hack around the larger problem. OSX does not run a lot of much needed software. Parallels by design has to be unstable. You are running a very complex OS on top of another very complex OS which is running on top of other stuff. Anything wrong in ANY of the layers can effect the ones above it and the errors can mangify as you go up. Compared to lets say DOS OSX is very unstable by design because it is complex.

Parallels and bootcamp are both hacks to get around the larger problem that OSX doesnt run the stuff. It that plane and simple. And I dont see that changing in the next 5-10 years in that area of the market.

I would like to have this discussion stay on the home market, but certain people don't understand that. Besides that, where does this guy come from. Its my understanding that Bootcamp allows an individual to choose which system to boot into. Doesn't sound like a hack to me.

For the average non-computer person in the home environment, Macs are by far the superior platform. Not perfect, but alot closer than Windows will ever be. Lets face reality, using a Windows PC is constant maintenance. Macs no maintenance. Windows confusing and un-intutive, Macs simple and easy to understand. And which will still be in use in a few years - the Mac.

 

[Timepass]

I would like to have this discussion stay on the home market, but certain people don't understand that. Besides that, where does this guy come from. Its my understanding that Bootcamp allows an individual to choose which system to boot into. Doesn't sound like a hack to me.

For the average non-computer person in the home environment, Macs are by far the superior platform. Not perfect, but alot closer than Windows will ever be. Lets face reality, using a Windows PC is constant maintenance. Macs no maintenance. Windows confusing and un-intutive, Macs simple and easy to understand. And which will still be in use in a few years - the Mac.

I have to use the software at home for school right now and later for work. Reason I call it a hack workaround is it require dual booting for it ot work. You cannt runnt the software in OSX. Boot camp allows the users to boot into windows if needed. But in the end it still a hack work around to the larger problem. remember that it would require everything to be duel install taking up 2 times the amount of room and requiring 2 time the ammount of money to pay for the software that is can run on both. Example being office. I finish something up in the windows side and need to write up some stuff using my work. Well cannt exacatly boot back into OSX to do it. I am calling it a hack because it is a hack to a much larger problem.

Also window interface is not as bad as everyone makes it out ot be. I for one complete hate the menus being only at the top of the screen. I like it being on the indivial windows and it becomes even a larger issues when I work on a larger monitor or 2 monitors having the menus on so far away from my projects.

Windows is just a different plateform. Take away the viruses and spyware side of the argument and just look at the UI part. I see them at about the same for the most part. OSX has it flaws and things I hate about it and does not make any sence to me what so ever (menu only at one point. resizing only in one corner things like that) windows has it own share but for the most part they UI are just different. I dont really see one being much better than the other.

 

[Mav451]

Lets face reality, using a Windows PC is constant maintenance. Macs no maintenance. Windows confusing and un-intutive, Macs simple and easy to understand. And which will still be in use in a few years - the Mac.

Things aren't as black & white as you assume them to be. The maintenance argument didn't apply to me 3 years ago, when I was on 98SE and it certainly still does not apply to me now. If anything, the PMac G5's at my university are the ones in need of constant maintenance--you can reference my thread on that if you search for it.

 

[jhu]

Lets face reality, using a Windows PC is constant maintenance. Macs no maintenance. Windows confusing and un-intutive, Macs simple and easy to understand. And which will still be in use in a few years - the Mac.

great! no more security updates needed with my mac!

 

[hulugu]

Thank you project for finally saying the things I was looking for. It's not that I have a problem with OSX (I haven't fully used it for a long period of time so I can't claim to that) it's that I have a problem w/ the fanboys of Apple (I don't know any XP fanboys... it gets the job done, not wonderful).

Also, Dell's arn't crap, (I used to have a Dell and my parents own their 2nd one now) it's the fact that you can get really low end dells which have really low end parts but... they are really cheap. I've seen cpu w/ monitor for 300 before on their site. XP doesn't run as smoothly as OSX but I don't think it's a crippling experience by any means. Yea, my computer crashed today when the wireless card I have (Media Center PCs + wireless connections = hokey) cut out and then crashed the VPN software that I was using with dreamweaver (which then crashed) but that's a lot of different software interacting and I have a bad wireless card. You have a Mac OS, built JUST for a Mac with Airport Mac wireless products, designed for and on Mac only hardware.... If Microsoft designed their own computers I would be a bit pissed if it didn't work perfectly.

The main point of my comments were really just to stir people up and get them talking about it (and smug mac fanboys annoy the hell out of me). As i've said I'm going to get a MacBook in the near future and run both Operating systems.

How tiresome, the new hotness is to complain about how Mac users are smug, pretentious (insert insult), blah, blah, blah. Not everyone is the same way, and I have yet to see in this thread or many others a defense of the Mac OS that was anything but logical and thoughtful.

Secondly, go to a site like Slashdot and you'll find all sorts of trolls expressing their disdain for the Mac and the sexual orientation of those who use them. There are XP fanboys who will say without irony: Macs suck.

For you XP is a decent OS that you like and has served you and others like Mav, well. And, yes you can find a Dell on sale that might serve your needs, but for me XP is a waste of time, buggy and difficult to use and often running on mediocre hardware. Not to mention the huge pile of patches I had to install this week.

 

[Lollypop]

great! no more security updates needed with my mac!

The difference is that until recently the security updates werent imediate necesity, on windows if you dont upgrade your AV, anti spyware, anti addware, and software updates the minute they come out you can become infected.

Also please define maintenance, are we talking hardware or software? Software update in my mind does a good job, most of the time I just let it download in the background and then restart my app once its done, that to me isnt a huge issue, early on with XP almost every update required a reboot... how convenient is that?

 

[jhu]

The difference is that until recently the security updates werent imediate necesity, on windows if you dont upgrade your AV, anti spyware, anti addware, and software updates the minute they come out you can become infected.

security updates are always a necessity, unless the computer isn't on a network. on the other hand, i don't have anti-virus software and am doing just fine. most "viruses" require user interaction nowadays.

Also please define maintenance, are we talking hardware or software? Software update in my mind does a good job, most of the time I just let it download in the background and then restart my app once its done, that to me isnt a huge issue, early on with XP almost every update required a reboot... how convenient is that?

i'll leave the burden of defining maintenance up to you since you brought it up.

 

[jhu]

How tiresome, the new hotness is to complain about how Mac users are smug, pretentious (insert insult), blah, blah, blah. Not everyone is the same way, and I have yet to see in this thread or many others a defense of the Mac OS that was anything but logical and thoughtful.

actually, the complaint about smugness has been going on ever since the macintosh was introduced in 1984. and for the most part it is true. the only ones i've met who weren't smug tended to be the general computing enthusiast and system agnostic.

Secondly, go to a site like Slashdot and you'll find all sorts of trolls expressing their disdain for the Mac and the sexual orientation of those who use them. There are XP fanboys who will say without irony: Macs suck.

odd. i don't see them. but then my threshold is set at +1 to weed out crap like that.

 

[FadeToBlack]

How tiresome, the new hotness is to complain about how Mac users are smug, pretentious (insert insult), blah, blah, blah. Not everyone is the same way, and I have yet to see in this thread or many others a defense of the Mac OS that was anything but logical and thoughtful.

Secondly, go to a site like Slashdot and you'll find all sorts of trolls expressing their disdain for the Mac and the sexual orientation of those who use them. There are XP fanboys who will say without irony: Macs suck.

For you XP is a decent OS that you like and has served you and others like Mav, well. And, yes you can find a Dell on sale that might serve your needs, but for me XP is a waste of time, buggy and difficult to use and often running on mediocre hardware. Not to mention the huge pile of patches I had to install this week.

Very well said.

I've used both Mac OS X and Windows extensively and I prefer OS X. Just my opinion, of course.

My Mac mini is supposed to be delivered Monday! This is the most excited I've been since I got my first Mac.

 

[c-Row]

remember that it would require everything to be duel install taking up 2 times the amount of room and requiring 2 time the ammount of money to pay for the software that is can run on both.

Again, this depends on the software and its license agreements. I am doing most of my "work" in Ableton Live and Propellerheads Reason both allow installing on XP and OSX, as long as you don't work in both installations at the same time - which, with Bootcamp, you wouldn't do anyway.

 

[hulugu]

actually, the complaint about smugness has been going on ever since the macintosh was introduced in 1984. and for the most part it is true. the only ones i've met who weren't smug tended to be the general computing enthusiast and system agnostic.



odd. i don't see them. but then my threshold is set at +1 to weed out crap like that.

I think the smugness comment has become knee-jerk, it's just an insult to hurl without any thought. I firmly believe that some of the people who call Mac users 'smug' or 'pretentious' don't even really know the meanings of the words.

I actually mod on Slashdot, so I can see all the -5 trolls if I want to. Slashdot was just one example, there are Windows fanboys who foam at the mouth and anyone who says there aren't is either inattentive or stupid.

 

[Lollypop]

security updates are always a necessity, unless the computer isn't on a network. on the other hand, i don't have anti-virus software and am doing just fine. most "viruses" require user interaction nowadays.

Let me clarify, on the mac you can forget to update your security software for a while, on windows, you cant. Wasnt saying that security updates are not required, was simply saying that on the mac os you can get away a bit longer without a update. (currently, lets hope it doesnt change)

i'll leave the burden of defining maintenance up to you since you brought it up.

Funny that you should say that, was having a similair discussion with one of our network guys, he said that he heard that there were a few maintainance issues with the macs, I asked him what issues, he could answer.... For me hardware maintainance hasnt been a issue, and software maintainance has also be much easier than on windows.

 

[JackSYi]

Games. Specifically Half-Life 2.

 

[Timepass]

Let me clarify, on the mac you can forget to update your security software for a while, on windows, you cant. Wasnt saying that security updates are not required, was simply saying that on the mac os you can get away a bit longer without a update. (currently, lets hope it doesnt change)



Funny that you should say that, was having a similair discussion with one of our network guys, he said that he heard that there were a few maintainance issues with the macs, I asked him what issues, he could answer.... For me hardware maintainance hasnt been a issue, and software maintainance has also be much easier than on windows.

You know on XP you can set it to be done Automaticly. That right Automaticly. You the user dont have to do ANY interation to make sure done. You just set it and forget it.

lets see 1 year of not doing any maintance on a XP system right now and it still running great. All I done on it in the past year is 10 mins worth of quick check ot make sure everything is working ok (and only reason I am only home once every 3 months and it my parents computer. so I dont use it daily to know if something is going wrong) let see no issues with the OS. now the only real complains I get up it all relate to the computer is 6 years old and it is "so slow" but that relates to it age and the hardware being so far outdated. But system maintance to the OS none has needed to be done. All scans and updates are done automaticly at like 3 am.

There goes you system maintance arguement. All that extra work took me maybe 10 mins to set up. And I pretty sure you have spent more than that doing maintaince work on your mac installing updates.

 

[Dane D.]

Timepass:
There goes you system maintenance arguement. All that extra work took me maybe 10 mins to set up. And I pretty sure you have spent more than that doing maintaince work on your mac installing updates.

That only works if you never turn the computer off, my guess would be the average user turns it off. It's automatic or manual your choice in OS X, just select when Software Update checks if you go that route. My experience with home PCs has been limited, but enough to know I don't want one in my home (I'm forced to use one at work). I watched some relatives who use a PC at Christmas try to load MP3 music files onto a new iRiver player. That was fun, all the PC users couldn't get it to load files from Windows Media Player or whatever Windows uses. Now if that was an iPod connected to an Mac, well lets just stay they would been done and enjoying their new player in no time.

 

[Timepass]

That only works if you never turn the computer off, my guess would be the average user turns it off. It's automatic or manual your choice in OS X, just select when Software Update checks if you go that route. My experience with home PCs has been limited, but enough to know I don't want one in my home (I'm forced to use one at work). I watched some relatives who use a PC at Christmas try to load MP3 music files onto a new iRiver player. That was fun, all the PC users couldn't get it to load files from Windows Media Player or whatever Windows uses. Now if that was an iPod connected to an Mac, well lets just stay they would been done and enjoying their new player in no time.

I think the average user DOESNT turn off there computer. How many mac users turn off there computers (full shut down here not sleep mode because this updates are set wake up the computer from sleep/standby mode to do it.) The average PC user is the same.

That average person leave the computer on 24/7 or at least in standby/sleep mode. So really doest hlp.

As for you iRiver comment that is a compete different thing. If it was an iPod it would not of been in issue on windows. it was an iRiver issue not the OS because I pretty sure there would of been issues with the iRiver on a mac. Dont use examples that require changing multiple varibles.

 

[Mav451]

I watched some relatives who use a PC at Christmas try to load MP3 music files onto a new iRiver player. That was fun, all the PC users couldn't get it to load files from Windows Media Player or whatever Windows uses. Now if that was an iPod connected to an Mac, well lets just stay they would been done and enjoying their new player in no time.

I'm gonna have to agree with the above post about changing variables. First it was "most digi cams don't PnP on a PC" or now "mp3 players don't work well on PCs".

I had an ancient Kodak auto-detect and install itself. The Kodak appeared as a storage device in a few seconds and I could easily copy/paste those pictures anywhere I pleased.
I had a similar experience with iTunes/iPod. Plug it in, transfer songs, enjoy. The only complaint, if any, was that the Windows iTunes looks slightly uglier (not 1:1 port), but this is a cosmetic argument in the end.

Dane - Those flawed and outdated blanket statements truly reflect on your lack of XP experience. You did mention that you have never used XP in the home, so maybe your statements should not be surprising to us.

 

[Dane D.]

My point was if they had a Mac and got an iPod, the process would be much smoother.

Mav451:
Dane - Those flawed and outdated blanket statements truly reflect on your lack of XP experience. You did mention that you have never used XP in the home, so maybe your statements should not be surprising to us.

My experience on PCs has been mostly at work, but all of my friends use PCs and are constanting complaining about something. And they turn their units off every night, these are die-hard PC guys too. It is great that you have a PC that works well and does what you want. My point was and still is, for the average home computer user, Macs are still a better experince in terms of using a computer.

 

[millypede]

I have to use a PC, none of this Win Xp crap, just Win2k, it works well for what I use it for, I use Softimage XSI and Combustion, plus I like the gaming side of things too, with out a PC im a little stuck, see this coming from one of the people who shouldnt be posting on here really but does.

 

[ravenvii]

The main point of my comments were really just to stir people up and get them talking about it (and smug mac fanboys annoy the hell out of me). As i've said I'm going to get a MacBook in the near future and run both Operating systems.

And self-declared trolls like you annoy the hell out of me.

A message from Harry Potter: Beware Kids: Profanity Inside!

 

[Dr.Gargoyle]

The reason why I need windows is easy. There are many specialized programs besides games and MS office that doesnt exist in OSX versions. Autocad (industrial standard 3d drawing editor) and
Scientific workplace (wysiswyg latex editor with maple) are just two of many examples.
I would love to be MS free, but reality forces me to use XP.

 

[hulugu]

The reason why I need windows is easy. There are many specialized programs besides games and MS office that doesnt exist in OSX versions. Autocad (industrial standard 3d drawing editor) and
Scientific workplace (wysiswyg latex editor with maple) are just two of many examples.
I would love to be MS free, but reality forces me to use XP.

AutoCAD is a problem, but it was my understanding that AutoDesk had asked for feedback from users regarding an OSX version, so this may change.

I'm surprised about Scientific Workplace, what the hell does a wysiswyg latex editor look like? I though Latex was a simple text editor.

There are many examples of Windows-only software and that's a valid reason to use Windows, but hopefully a faultering reason to use Windows. However, could Parallels fulfill this need so you could use a Mac also?