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Why Valve games are not coming to Macs..
- Thread starter makku
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The Orange Box is being ported to the PS3 (well, EA is doing the work), if they will port to the "hard to code for" PS3 why wouldn't they port to OS X?
No market. I don't think this has anything to do with APIs.
LOl..... isn't that like a two legged tri-pod or a wind powered fan?
seriously though, what's up with the total disregard for games with Mac....??
It's just "the way it is" I guess, and always has been.
weak.
Apparently, people have a very short memory.
Steve Jobs CAN NOT STAND GAMES ON HIS COMPUTERS. He thinks they are a complete and utter waste of time. Period. End of story.
His belief, stated over and over again, is why play games when you can do something creative like create music, design, art, whatever. He is all about creation. And the company follows that in its products.
He tolerates games today because people actually want them. But he is definitely not going to bend over backwards for them.
This has been the attitude since at least 1984.
Apple makes great products, but its foolish to think your going ever going to have gaming parity on the Mac. The only way that way that would happen is if Mac share went to 70%. At that point, the game developers would suck it up and develop because the money would be too big. But today? Why bother, when you can develop for a console and make 20 times what you would make on a Mac release. Actually, that thinking is also starting to apply for PC games...
Mac's will never get much higher in market share, on the back of games.
Sure open the doors to a big influx of Mac Games, but then Linux games are a couple of weeks behind.
I mean the big hurdles Video cards offering better support for OpenGL and EFI or other modern firmware.
Which of these are gamers going to run with when MS loses the strangle hold it has on the game market now?
I sure hope you're right about that because from what I'm hearing "good performance" is having all settings on medium-low in new mac games (I'm hearing this from people that have brand new iMacs).
And ATI, get your @#%! together and start making some REAL drivers that don't gargle donkey huevos.
Doesn't change the fact that gaming sucks on the Mac. Not just because of Valve but because of crappy hardware and/or crappy drivers.
Good call. The serious gaming guys that I know drop $5k into their systems easy...they aren't picking up $999 MacBooks and MacMinis. Other guys saying things like "the new iMacs come with crappy cards!" won't be able to find anything good in the crappy, low end trash the PC makers spew out, either.
I don't think many ( sane ) people would argue with that statement. The intel processors are good but ( once again ) the graphic cards are lackluster.
Conclusion: Crap hardware /drivers is hardly the fault of software houses.
If Apple wants to take a shot at the games industry, then it's going to have to take software developers seriously and we all know what Apple and Jobs thinks about 3rd party developers, they slam the door shut, the iPhone mess sums that up. Yea there are other options like BootCamp but that requires Windows to start with.
I just wish there was a PC maker that had hardware as elegant as the MBP, so I wouldn't have to ask myself: is it worth it to get a Mac?
It's just so frustrating dealing with this type of issue. Now I'm having to choose between the latest update for my iPhone or my favorite Sudoku program I installed from a 3rd party developer. But I love Sudoku! Again, I wish there was a windows mobile device this elegant so I wouldn't have to deal with this.
It's just so frustrating dealing with this type of issue. Now I'm having to choose between the latest update for my iPhone or my favorite Sudoku program I installed from a 3rd party developer. But I love Sudoku! Again, I wish there was a windows mobile device this elegant so I wouldn't have to deal with this.
I am playing Blizzard's World of Warcraft both on OS X and Bootcamp-ed Windows on my poor MacBook. While on Windows its graphics performance is quite satisfying around 30fps, I am really disappointed by Apple and Intel's GMA950 graphics driver on OS X. It only has 5~25fps.
Apple needs some serious graphics cards if it wants to be taken even half-seriously as a gaming platform. I'm very disappointed that even the Mac Pro, which can be configured to cost over $15,000 has no OPTION for a high-end graphics card. It's all quite pathetic.
Honestly I think some people here need to really look seriously at the situation without partisanship.
First off upgradable video cards are not the answer. People are slaves to the idea that you need to upgrade your video cards every time nVidia and ATI release something new. Consoles have proven that that is not the case. Xbox 360 has some excellent graphics capabilities that rival some of the newest cards that have been released almost 2 years after. PS3 has a more powerful one even than the 360. Both consoles are more than likely going to see cutting edge games for at least another two years. The reason PC gaming requires you to upgrade is because of poor gaming development. Thats why console games have actually started to surpass PC games. A closed hardware platform is much better for really pushing the capabilities of the system. The wider range of graphics cards the more programming junk has to be put in there. You won't see many games taking full advantage of the video cards because for them to do that they have to develop so many controls to turn so much off for the lower end cards. Very few people are going to buy a 700 dollar video card every time a new game comes out they want to play.
I think people are going to find a major revolution in computer gaming and I think Apple is going to come out the winner. Right now buying a new video card you have to run vista if you want to use its new DirectX10 features. Thats actually why EA and Apple are getting along so well. EA and nVidia tried to get Microsoft to release DirectX10 for XP but Microsoft wants to force people to upgrade to Vista to use that fancy new video card. That is hurting both nVidia and EA who do not want to develop for Vista since so many people hate Vista (The fact that microsoft sold a downgrader so you could go back to XP without erasing is big telling point).
While people are making fun of Apple's current video cards like the HD 2600 ATI card in the new iMacs those cards are OpenGL 2.0 cards which is far superior to Directx10 as far as developers are concerned. Take WoW for example. On the same hardware it took a 45% performance hit when Vista came out because it uses OpenGL which in Vista has to go through DirectX10 as an emulation. OpenGL also supports multicore processors and is rumored to support multicore GPU's.
Right now if you do not like Vista there is almost Zero reason to buy a new video card since 90% of their new features require DirectX10. Valve is being very stupid to not go for the Mac. Mac OS X is becoming a very popular OS and a lot of people are switching because Vista really does suck. I honestly suspect that Valve simply does not want to have to worry about programming efficiently and would rather just put out a game that pretty much requires you to upgrade your video card because they know there are many loyalist gamers who are willing to shell out big bucks for a new video card to play the latest and greatest that their favorite game company puts out. This won't change till people get tired of being told they have to upgrade because the company making the game didn't want to optimize its code to take advantage of current hardware.
First off upgradable video cards are not the answer. People are slaves to the idea that you need to upgrade your video cards every time nVidia and ATI release something new. Consoles have proven that that is not the case. Xbox 360 has some excellent graphics capabilities that rival some of the newest cards that have been released almost 2 years after. PS3 has a more powerful one even than the 360. Both consoles are more than likely going to see cutting edge games for at least another two years. The reason PC gaming requires you to upgrade is because of poor gaming development. Thats why console games have actually started to surpass PC games. A closed hardware platform is much better for really pushing the capabilities of the system. The wider range of graphics cards the more programming junk has to be put in there. You won't see many games taking full advantage of the video cards because for them to do that they have to develop so many controls to turn so much off for the lower end cards. Very few people are going to buy a 700 dollar video card every time a new game comes out they want to play.
I think people are going to find a major revolution in computer gaming and I think Apple is going to come out the winner. Right now buying a new video card you have to run vista if you want to use its new DirectX10 features. Thats actually why EA and Apple are getting along so well. EA and nVidia tried to get Microsoft to release DirectX10 for XP but Microsoft wants to force people to upgrade to Vista to use that fancy new video card. That is hurting both nVidia and EA who do not want to develop for Vista since so many people hate Vista (The fact that microsoft sold a downgrader so you could go back to XP without erasing is big telling point).
While people are making fun of Apple's current video cards like the HD 2600 ATI card in the new iMacs those cards are OpenGL 2.0 cards which is far superior to Directx10 as far as developers are concerned. Take WoW for example. On the same hardware it took a 45% performance hit when Vista came out because it uses OpenGL which in Vista has to go through DirectX10 as an emulation. OpenGL also supports multicore processors and is rumored to support multicore GPU's.
Right now if you do not like Vista there is almost Zero reason to buy a new video card since 90% of their new features require DirectX10. Valve is being very stupid to not go for the Mac. Mac OS X is becoming a very popular OS and a lot of people are switching because Vista really does suck. I honestly suspect that Valve simply does not want to have to worry about programming efficiently and would rather just put out a game that pretty much requires you to upgrade your video card because they know there are many loyalist gamers who are willing to shell out big bucks for a new video card to play the latest and greatest that their favorite game company puts out. This won't change till people get tired of being told they have to upgrade because the company making the game didn't want to optimize its code to take advantage of current hardware.
It doesn't matter what they asked. Gaming is not now and never will be a priority at Apple unless Apple decides, unwisely in my opinion, to make their own proprietary console platform. At the modern Apple, gaming begins and ends with Tetris -- simple, brief diversions.
I worked for a major publisher of PC, Mac and console titles -- think top three bestselling PlayStation 2 titles for the entire life of the platform to date and you'll be on the right track -- at a time when we entirely dropped Mac support for our titles, including killing in-process Mac ports. We hadn't even asked for anything: they had one publisher liaison for games who was enthusiastic but couldn't get anything accomplished within the greater Apple because no one else at Apple cared. The gamers at Apple went home and played on consoles or Windows PCs.
Microsoft on the other hand has developed much technology and employed various marketing strategies to support game development. In fact, there was some enthusiasm for games building at Apple when Bungie showed off Halo, the initial development platform being G4-based Macs. Then Microsoft bought Halo, put Bungie entirely on Halo for their Xbox console, massively delayed Halo for PC and would have killed Halo for Mac altogether except for the fact the Bungie guys went nuts at the thought and the engine had already been developed on the Mac and actually ported over to the PC-based Xbox architecture. So they went ahead and released it for Mac. But that about killed enthusiasm for innovative games on the Mac at Apple: basically, we get one, a big one, and Microsoft "steals" it.
At this point, despite an entrenched PC game following that won't die out en masse for a long, long time, Windows gaming is a losing proposition: the constant system upgrades are expensive and a hassle. With the exception of a lot of real-time strategy titles, Windows gaming exists mostly as a proving ground for technology that will be ported over to current generation consoles. And with the capabilities of current generation HD game platforms for ports and original development, who really needs the PC experience but gaming technophiles? The new consoles provide most of the experience at much less than half the cost, if you consider the upgrading you'd do to a PC over a console's life cycle.
There's no reason for Apple to pursue gaming now. If you really want a Mac that plays AAA titles, buy an iMac with a good GPU, or a Mac Pro with an upgradable GPU on a card, buy some Windows flavor, install it and dual boot. Otherwise buy a current generation HD console. Apple would be pursuing a mostly static market that will move very few Macs in the future. Likewise, there's no reason for Valve to support Macs, as even casual gamers with Macs only will buy into HD consoles and supporting those consoles supports gamers with Macs.
Apple sucks at supporting the gaming market. They instead target the more lightweight occasional use game.
I for years have wished Apple include the latest Video GPU and cards to be available.
Finally we have intel chip, but without actually giving optoin on better chips, to subsidize the integration of ports of games from windows.
Also to have deals with the online multiplayer services, so that apple games can play online with their windows bretheren. Ie how Enemy Territory: RTCW does it.
A user upgradable mid sized tower would be a great idea. and a gamers version of imac with killer graphics chip.
I for years have wished Apple include the latest Video GPU and cards to be available.
Finally we have intel chip, but without actually giving optoin on better chips, to subsidize the integration of ports of games from windows.
Also to have deals with the online multiplayer services, so that apple games can play online with their windows bretheren. Ie how Enemy Territory: RTCW does it.
A user upgradable mid sized tower would be a great idea. and a gamers version of imac with killer graphics chip.
why should steve jobs dictate what can and cannot be on my computer. I couldn't care less if steve jobs doesn't like gaming.
dude...you could build a top-end windows box that could run the best games on max settings at 1900x1200 for under 1200...no need for some 5k monster.
some people prefer a keyboard and mouse over a controller..not to mention you don't have to pay a monthly fee to play online and games cost $10 cheaper.
Also..some games are PC exclusive. Crysis anyone?
I mean..while I personally own a 360 and prefer to buy games on the 360 over PC b\c I like xbox live..there are still some game types..like RTS..that need to be played with a keyboard and mouse. If you've played Tiberium wars on a 360 and a PC you'd know what I'm talking about.
Amen. Most consumers aren't as naive as they were when His Jobness started the company. Sooner or later he's going to realize that not everyone wants what Steve thinks we want. Take any incident over consumer backlash against Apple in the last few months as proof.
I could care less whether or not His Jobess hates gaming. But I'll tell you one thing. Apple is not getting another dime of my money until they put a new and updated video card in the Mac Pro that I can game with, when I choose to game of course.