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So your quote was wrong? Or you didn't write what you meant?

is there something wrong with my English, or what's the problem here? What did I say originally? I said:

I can't understand why many people think that "Dude, if you want to play games, get a console!"

What am I saying there? I'm saying that I do not understand why people think that if someone wants to play games, they should get a console instead of PC. No more, no less. Now, where exactly am I saying that buying a console is dumb? Hint: Nowhere.

If I said "I can't understand people who buy consoles" you would have a point. But I did not say that.

In even simpler terms: My original comment was about people who think that console is a replacement for a PC. It was NOT about "stupidity" of getting a console as opposed to a PC". The core of my argument is that console is not a replacement for a PC if the console does not have any games that interest you! But many people seem to think that gaming is gaming, and therefore console can replace a PC. And THAT is the thing I can't understand! That horribly misguided thinking.

Like I said: practice your reading-comprehension. Sheesh.

goes off looking for Evangelion's sense of humour as he missed the smiley before....

Yes, you can sweep everything under the rug with a smiley.
 
What am I saying there? I'm saying that I do not understand why people think that if someone wants to play games, they should get a console instead of PC.

Then you should have said that.

Evangelion said:
Now, where exactly am I saying that buying a console is dumb? Hint: Nowhere.

Did I say you did? Hint: No.

Evangelion said:
Like I said: practice your reading-comprehension. Sheesh.

You want to get personal, PM me, and we'll discuss it there.
 
Sad to hear of the lack of support from Apple, maybe that might change in the near future?

Steam was a bit of hit or miss in the early days, people liked it people didnt...

In the days of Counter Strike etc, people stuck with it and it grew.

I now think Steam is the best Gameing Software (Gaming Portal?) around, not only does it keep games under one roof, but auto updates them (not just HalfLife Games) and now with adding friends you can see who's playing what and join them...

If Apple with their current iMac's etc, adopted Steam it would be a MASSIVE boost to them, let alone Steam...

I use the 2.8GHz Extreme model of the iMac, and that is more than powerful to run the games, so get your finger outta your ass Apple and help Steam!
 
That should come as no surprise to anybody.

While it cannot be said that Mac users aren't game fans, the majority of Mac users (historically) actually use their computers. Unlike hardcore gamers on the PC (Wintel) side who use their computers primarily as game consoles and secondarily for internet access (i.e., porn, MySpace, email and P2P downloads).

Has no one noticed Steve Jobs trying to encourage users to spend more of their free time making, mixing and sharing their movies, photos, music with friends and family while every other PC manufacturer pushes gaming and recording TV shows for their users?

Apple's approach is more about encouraging the social, rather than antisocial experience.

If you want to play games, buy a game console.

God, I hate stereotypes. They makes us Mac users look ignorant.
 
Sad to hear of the lack of support from Apple, maybe that might change in the near future?

Steam was a bit of hit or miss in the early days, people liked it people didnt...

In the days of Counter Strike etc, people stuck with it and it grew.

I now think Steam is the best Gameing Software (Gaming Portal?) around, not only does it keep games under one roof, but auto updates them (not just HalfLife Games) and now with adding friends you can see who's playing what and join them...

If Apple with their current iMac's etc, adopted Steam it would be a MASSIVE boost to them, let alone Steam...

I use the 2.8GHz Extreme model of the iMac, and that is more than powerful to run the games, so get your finger outta your ass Apple and help Steam!

I agree. Unfortunately it seems Apple's focus severely wavers when it involves something that Jobs doesn't want to do personally.
 
Then you should have said that.

And I did. It's not my problem if you do not understand what you read. It's not like I type Old English or something...

Did I say you did? Hint: No.

Um, yes you did:

You can't understand why people get a console to play games?

So you obviously thought that I do not understand why people buy consoles...

You want to get personal, PM me, and we'll discuss it there.

I have no interest in doing that, thanks.
 
First off upgradable video cards are not the answer. People are slaves to the idea that you need to upgrade your video cards every time nVidia and ATI release something new.

Just because you have the option to upgrade, doesn't mean you have to upgrade it every time NVIDIA or ATI comes out with their latest stuff.

You can, you know, wait until they release something that's a significant upgrade from your current video card either because of significantly improved performance, or new features.

Some people just want that option.

I think people are going to find a major revolution in computer gaming and I think Apple is going to come out the winner.

Which, in the unlikely event that it happened, would be despite of Apple's (lack of) support. They'd win because Microsoft screwed up, not because Apple was in any way better (and when it comes to gaming... their intentions might not be "noble", but there's not much doubt that Microsoft is way more supportive of it than Apple).

While people are making fun of Apple's current video cards like the HD 2600 ATI card in the new iMacs those cards are OpenGL 2.0 cards which is far superior to Directx10 as far as developers are concerned. Take WoW for example.
On the same hardware it took a 45% performance hit when Vista came out because it uses OpenGL which in Vista has to go through DirectX10 as an emulation.

That's bullocks.

OpenGL will be translated to DX only if there is no OpenGL ICD available. Both ATI and NVIDIA have that now (though it could certainly have been the case in the very beginning since both ATI and NVIDIA's Vista drivers was pretty crap at that point).
Microsoft's OGL support in XP is pretty crappy too, but most people won't ever notice because the vendors have their own implementation.

Right now if you do not like Vista there is almost Zero reason to buy a new video card since 90% of their new features require DirectX10.

DX10 support is nice to have, and makes it a bit more future-proof, but the rather significant performance increase (in DX9 and OGL games as well) from prev-gen cards would be a very valid reason to upgrade your card.
 
I agree. Unfortunately it seems Apple's focus severely wavers when it involves something that Jobs doesn't want to do personally.

Very True!

Maybe with Steve inviting EA on the stage and openly talking about EA it may be a sign He/Apple will actually take gaming seriously?

Its one side Apple has never been clear on, they make great computers and fantastic software to be creative, but sometimes I just wanna shoot someone in a game :D:cool:

:)
 
Good Games?

When it comes to gaming on Apple, this article looks true to me. Games are #1 reason why the PC is sold at homes. Apple gets better games and puts a real graphics card in their system and they have many more customers.
 
When it comes to gaming on Apple, this article looks true to me. Games are #1 reason why the PC is sold at homes. Apple gets better games and puts a real graphics card in their system and they have many more customers.

WOW...it all sounds so simple. YOU MUST BE A GENIUS!
 
First off upgradable video cards are not the answer. People are slaves to the idea that you need to upgrade your video cards every time nVidia and ATI release something new.

That's true.

Consoles have proven that that is not the case.

True to a certain extent.

Xbox 360 has some excellent graphics capabilities that rival some of the newest cards that have been released almost 2 years after.

Mostly False. The 8800GTX which came out a year ago far exceeds anything the 360 GPU is capable of both on paper and in the real world. Even considering the 360 renders a much smaller resolution(Halo 3 is running at 1152x640 and then upsampled by the 360's scaler). It's true that the 360 does rival some newer mid-tier cards and alot of ATI offerings, but when the 360 was less than a year old, it was already beaten about the head and shoulders graphically.

PS3 has a more powerful one even than the 360.

Even though it has an unusual architecture, technically the 360 has a more powerful GPU .

Both consoles are more than likely going to see cutting edge games for at least another two years.

Mostly true. The titles that come out on the PC will just feature higher resolutions, larger textures, more lighting and particle effects, better framerates, etc.(Video card dependent, naturally)


The reason PC gaming requires you to upgrade is because of poor gaming development. Thats why console games have actually started to surpass PC games. A closed hardware platform is much better for really pushing the capabilities of the system. The wider range of graphics cards the more programming junk has to be put in there. You won't see many games taking full advantage of the video cards because for them to do that they have to develop so many controls to turn so much off for the lower end cards. Very few people are going to buy a 700 dollar video card every time a new game comes out they want to play.

This is pretty much completely wrong. First PC gaming doesn't require you to upgrade anywhere near what you seem to be implying. Secondly, console games passing PC games is a pretty vague and subjective thing. Do you mean graphically? If so, you're pretty much incorrect. Now, in some ways they have, like Gears of War coming to the 360 long before the PC. But that's not because the closed platform is better for pushing the capabilities of the system; it's because console games sell a metric crap-ton more than computer games. Because consoles are cheaper than computers. Consoles sell more games which means they get allocated more resources by many software developers. And of course, console gaming is cheaper than PC gaming, even at an equivilant visual experience. Since it's standardized commidity hardware it's cheaper to build a console than a gaming computer, plus consoles are subsidized by the company whereas gaming computers and computer parts are seen as an enthusiasts market which means higher margins which means more expensive. The wider range of graphic cards does not make programming harder, that's what APIs are for. And I can't think of one game that would require a 700 video card to play. The most demanding video game announced is Crysis and it'll play WELL on a card that cost 500.00 2 years ago. The problem here is that ATI and Nvidia both offer cheap crap that won't play games and then people buy them and then bitch when a game comes out a year later than won't play and then assume you need to buy a new card every year. ATI and nvidia are basically taking advantage of uninformed consumers.


I think people are going to find a major revolution in computer gaming and I think Apple is going to come out the winner.

Not with their marketshare. More "Gaming" PCs are sold than the total number of Macs and most macs are completely **** for games because of the hardware.


Right now buying a new video card you have to run vista if you want to use its new DirectX10 features. Thats actually why EA and Apple are getting along so well. EA and nVidia tried to get Microsoft to release DirectX10 for XP but Microsoft wants to force people to upgrade to Vista to use that fancy new video card. That is hurting both nVidia and EA who do not want to develop for Vista since so many people hate Vista (The fact that microsoft sold a downgrader so you could go back to XP without erasing is big telling point).

This giant snafu is going to benefit consoles more than it will Apple.

While people are making fun of Apple's current video cards like the HD 2600 ATI card in the new iMacs those cards are OpenGL 2.0 cards which is far superior to Directx10 as far as developers are concerned. Take WoW for example. On the same hardware it took a 45% performance hit when Vista came out because it uses OpenGL which in Vista has to go through DirectX10 as an emulation. OpenGL also supports multicore processors and is rumored to support multicore GPU's.

Um? So? All the Geforce 8 series is Open GL 2.1 as well. Vista's implementation of OpenGL may indeed suck but that doesn't negate any of the comments made about the video card in the iMac.

Right now if you do not like Vista there is almost Zero reason to buy a new video card since 90% of their new features require DirectX10. Valve is being very stupid to not go for the Mac. Mac OS X is becoming a very popular OS and a lot of people are switching because Vista really does suck.

Numbers do not support your assertion in any meaningful way. People may indeed may be switching to Mac, but not in any great number. Most people don't care. They're literally indifferent towards computers. Most gamers stay with Windows because that's where all the games are. All the enthusiast gamers will stay with Windows because of the hardware. That's a lot of inertia to overcome.

I honestly suspect that Valve simply does not want to have to worry about programming efficiently and would rather just put out a game that pretty much requires you to upgrade your video card because they know there are many loyalist gamers who are willing to shell out big bucks for a new video card to play the latest and greatest that their favorite game company puts out.

Yes. Because the Orange box is so demanding that I had to shell out 250 bucks on a video card in 2006 to play it when it comes out in 2007.(Actually you didn't have to spend that much) I mean if you're going to throw out conjecture, you should think beforehand.

This won't change till people get tired of being told they have to upgrade because the company making the game didn't want to optimize its code to take advantage of current hardware.

Or until people stop repeating uninformed opinions as fact.
 
When it comes to gaming on Apple, this article looks true to me. Games are #1 reason why the PC is sold at homes.

I seriously doubt this assertion since the majority of consumer PCs sold are low-margin cheap boxes that are incapable of playing anything but Popcap and flash games. Which Macs can play.
 
I seriously doubt this assertion since the majority of consumer PCs sold are low-margin cheap boxes that are incapable of playing anything but Popcap and flash games. Which Macs can play.

Actually, a PC priced the same as a iMac can get you a very good games machine. In fact that PC, in terms of gaming will out perform the iMac.

A PC priced around CA$800 would probably be able to outperform an iMac too for gaming.
 
Actually, a PC priced the same as a iMac can get you a very good games machine. In fact that PC, in terms of gaming will out perform the iMac.

I wasn't talking about that. I was disputing the assertion that the majority of PCs are sold to homes to play games. Most PCs sold can't play games outside of old games, flash games, and stuff from popcap. Game sales corroborate this. The best selling PC franchise is the Sims. Over a period of 7 years it has sold 29 million copies worldwide. In 2006, in the US, 25 million computers were sold.

A CA$700 PC would probably be able to outperform an iMac too for gaming.

That I would dispute since the videocard in a 700 dollar PC is not going to be close the HD2600(Even considering the HD2600's shortcomings.)

Even with your edit. For example from dell.ca an 800 dollar Inspiron comes with Integrated graphics. It won't play the games that the iMac will.
 
Amazing how a multitude of Apple fans deny themselves gaming on a Macintosh, just because :apple: is more focused on profits, rather than giving the option to its consumers if the want to game or not.

Gaming gives you a break from reality, which in turn makes you more productive. Unless you are an addict and then that could be said for work as well. :)


bingo.jpg


I'm not a gamer, and if games were available for the Mac I probalby wouldn't buy any. But let's face it Apple is NOT a consumer/3rd party developer friendly company. Their products are, but the company mantra is to keep the products locked up, be it the Mac, the iPhone, the iPod, AppleTV. Sure you can go buy an Apple approved high end video card, but it's not easy and its vastly more expensive than doing so for a PC, even for the same video card. And that is just one component.

Gaming was the killer app for PCs and what really lead it to clobber the Mac. Even still Apple has really given only lip service to gaming. History repeats itself as Apple keeps the iPhone locked tight. I love my iPhone, but the iPhone is only going to be useful in the future if there is a plethora of apps. Right now Slingplayer is available for almost every smartphone EXCEPT the iPhone. I doubt it ever will be. Apple better hear Nokia running down the track ready to pass it this time next year. I hope it's proverbial head is out of the ground before then. Stock and weather widgets only give people jollies for so long.
 
Yes, I agree that most PCs aren't bought for games , probably more towards email, internet, word processing etc. Gaming would be secondary. Most people these days willl buy a console.

For some, PC gaming is better because you don't get the games on console that you do on PC. I find PC games have more depth - i.e., strategy, MMORGS - more long term games. I find using a games controller awkward - like some people - a mouse and keyboard is easier to use. The Wii controllers are great.. just a shame about the majority of games - although the Wii gaming will improve, given time.

For $800 I could build a better gaming PC machine than an off the self product, such as Dell.

PS. Yes, at first at did put $700 - but thats a bit low... I'd need another $100.

I wasn't talking about that. I was disputing the assertion that the majority of PCs are sold to homes to play games. Most PCs sold can't play games outside of old games, flash games, and stuff from popcap. Game sales corroborate this. The best selling PC franchise is the Sims. Over a period of 7 years it has sold 29 million copies worldwide. In 2006, in the US, 25 million computers were sold.



That I would dispute since the videocard in a 700 dollar PC is not going to be close the HD2600(Even considering the HD2600's shortcomings.)

Even with your edit. For example from dell.ca an 800 dollar Inspiron comes with Integrated graphics. It won't play the games that the iMac will.
 
Jobs is not interested in games. That's a fact -- and I understand his point. a Mac is not a game console, you want that buy one.
 
I'd agree that a lot of their products are locked up to 3rd party development... but the Macs?

Apple encourage 3rd party development for OSX - Jobs actively states the number of applications / developers in WWDC. Apple ship developer tools of course, for free. The core IDE isn't that bad ( it could use improvement such as refactoring etc - which is coming as I understand. Its good for ObjC, but stinks for Java development ) and Interface Builder is pretty nice to use too.

I'm sure that if Apple weren't open to third party devs, then they wouldn't develop JDK ( Sun can't be arsed to make a Mac version, so Apple do instead ), nor would they ship Developer Tools.

 
For $800 I could build a better gaming PC machine than an off the self product, such as Dell.

PS. Yes, at first at did put $700 - but thats a bit low... I'd need another $100.

Interesting. Granted I have to look at American prices. But I don't see how that's possible. Even going as cheap as possible. An E4400 CPU, A cheap motherboard and a cheap 8600 GTS alone sets you at 350 American right there. Go even cheaper with an 8600 GT and you can squeak in at 300. Neither of those solutions is better than an iMac.
 
Valve's got the gall to complain about Apple! :mad: LOL

You do know it was Valve that finished the port of Half-Life for the Mac and then decided not to release it because they would have to support it (as in they didn't want to support it). :mad:

Valve can go screw themselves!! Us Mac Gamers :apple: don't need them!!

I wouldn't buy a Valve product if it was the last game on Earth.

I think it is in terms of having to support possible OS X problems when people call in. For example if they call Apple and say Half-Life 3 doesn't work. Apple will say Call Valve and not determine if there is an OS X or hardware issue with it, to see if it is not working. so if someone says has a bad Systems OS Corruption or hardware problem they call Valve and they have to determine if the system is bad or not, and if it was bad the person would call Apple and then they would go threw the loop again. Making Valve look bad while it was Apples problem originally. Vs. if they did support it Apple would check the system and the system requirements for the game and first say if it supposed to work on it or not. If it does suppose to work then they will go and see if they can at least get it loaded and running... Now if there was a bug in the game then that will go to Valve but if there is a problem in the OS then that is with Apple. Also with support from Apple it may help prevent the next version or update being incompatible with their game. If Apple wants gaming they need to be extra nice to gaming developers and give them the gold star treatment because they can usually do pretty good without Apple. If the cost to support an Apple Product is higher then its sales of apple product (usually the cost of 1 tech support call costs more then the box price of the game) then it won't be worth it for them to sell the versions. It is better to leave Apple out then to loose money.
 
I think it is in terms of having to support possible OS X problems when people call in. For example if they call Apple and say Half-Life 3 doesn't work. Apple will say Call Valve and not determine if there is an OS X or hardware issue with it, to see if it is not working. so if someone says has a bad Systems OS Corruption or hardware problem they call Valve and they have to determine if the system is bad or not, and if it was bad the person would call Apple and then they would go threw the loop again. Making Valve look bad while it was Apples problem originally. Vs. if they did support it Apple would check the system and the system requirements for the game and first say if it supposed to work on it or not. If it does suppose to work then they will go and see if they can at least get it loaded and running... Now if there was a bug in the game then that will go to Valve but if there is a problem in the OS then that is with Apple. Also with support from Apple it may help prevent the next version or update being incompatible with their game. If Apple wants gaming they need to be extra nice to gaming developers and give them the gold star treatment because they can usually do pretty good without Apple. If the cost to support an Apple Product is higher then its sales of apple product (usually the cost of 1 tech support call costs more then the box price of the game) then it won't be worth it for them to sell the versions. It is better to leave Apple out then to loose money.

It's a bit simpler than that. They'd have had to spend more resources(man-hours) to keep it patched up-to-date. They felt that potential sales did not exceed the extra expenditure of resources enough to warrant continuing with the project.
 
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