Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
How are people so serious about gaming?

.. Are you trolling? I don't understand that really. I mean.. A lot of people find time to have a job and a marriage and read books, watch films, listen to music AND play games.. So.. Why shouldn't they be serious?

I have Wii/PS3/"Decent" gaming PC, and I'm married, I take them all seriously, but I still find time to do other stuff.

And what do you mean by physical activity? What are sports etc if they aren't games? How are they more worthwhile? Games can be really good for inspiring creativity and sharpening reflexes/problem solving abilities etc.. And they're often good socially too. (especially getting mates over.. online gaming is socially.. odd)

I don't understand how people can avoid taking it seriously.. (well, maybe instead I should say it frustrates me when people dismiss it completely) It's bigger money than the film industry, and it's proven again and again it has a lot of art and creativity and beneficial facets, games can be really deep. What's the point in anything, ultimately? People pay for stuff they enjoy! Gaming is actually a really cheap hobby/activity compared to most.. Some of which I assume even iQuit (and any of the game dismissing people) does..?
 
I think both sides are to be blamed about gaming on the Mac.

There is a problem with game developers now days, they have this notion that to make games better you have to up system requirements instead of optimizing the code and making use of the hardware to its full potential.

on the other side apple has to realize that gaming is important and sometimes a big factor in a person decision to come over to the Mac world. They can achive this in many ways

making Gpu expandable on some systems and offering more choices.

Headless Mac option something along the lines of mac pro but with just 1 CPU
 
Apple to a great calls the shots on even 3rd party hardware which is why, for example, there isn't a great assortment of video cards for the Mac, and the ones you can buy off the shelf are in the mega $ range.

Which is why some of us (Power Mac G5 AGP users) go get a PC card and flash a Mac ROM onto it. :D
 
Well this thread has certainly turned into a shouting match.

Well, it's because topics like these (and others lately) really show the two groups on MacRumors:

1. Steve Jobs Worshipers who believe that Apple can and does no wrong.

2. People who are critical of Apple on certain issues.

w00master
 
I think both sides are to be blamed about gaming on the Mac.

There is a problem with game developers now days, they have this notion that to make games better you have to up system requirements instead of optimizing the code and making use of the hardware to its full potential.

on the other side apple has to realize that gaming is important and sometimes a big factor in a person decision to come over to the Mac world. They can achive this in many ways

making Gpu expandable on some systems and offering more choices.

Headless Mac option something along the lines of mac pro but with just 1 CPU

An interesting point - Blizzard would probably be a good example of a company that focuses on creating smooth games, even if they don't push the boundaries of hardware.

iD does this too, to some degree; at least, they seem to focus on engines that look good while also not being super-demanding on hardware.

Epic is another company though that I think does still push the limits, although UT2004 ran well even on lesser hardware.

Actually, for all the talk about the lack of game support on the Mac, Blizzard, iD and Epic (who have confirmed UT3 and Gears of War coming to the Mac) seem to do a pretty good job of it.
 
There is a problem with game developers now days, they have this notion that to make games better you have to up system requirements instead of optimizing the code and making use of the hardware to its full potential.

or...you could do both
 
An interesting point - Blizzard would probably be a good example of a company that focuses on creating smooth games, even if they don't push the boundaries of hardware.

iD does this too, to some degree; at least, they seem to focus on engines that look good while also not being super-demanding on hardware.

Epic is another company though that I think does still push the limits, although UT2004 ran well even on lesser hardware.

Actually, for all the talk about the lack of game support on the Mac, Blizzard, iD and Epic (who have confirmed UT3 and Gears of War coming to the Mac) seem to do a pretty good job of it.

actually...the games run worse on osx than they do on xp/vista by a large margin.
 
You can't ask other companies to take mac gaming seriously when apple doesn't even take it seriously.

You can't upgrade your own video card unless you buy a workstation. And then only to mac specific versions of cards. Until apple makes some changes gaming will merely be an after thought.
 
Nice for you that you run a game on your laptop.

Personally, a 30 in Cinema Display running the latest 8800GTS card with optimized drivers is what people most associate with Extreme Gaming.

I am by no means an "extreme gamer" but I really wish I could play the occasional game on my macbook. From reading the forum, I know I'm not alone.
 
Good call. The serious gaming guys that I know drop $5k into their systems easy...they aren't picking up $999 MacBooks and MacMinis. Other guys saying things like "the new iMacs come with crappy cards!" won't be able to find anything good in the crappy, low end trash the PC makers spew out, either.

I'm pretty sick of this argument. I'm just making up statistics like everyone else, but I would bet that 90% of people who play games have spent $1000 or less on their PCs.
 
Lacking decent hardware to output the quality graphics that the developers think their games deserve.

You can have all the quality developers in the world, but your games are as only as good as the hardware allows.

I really, very much doubt the software houses you list hire second rate developers. I've played Valve games, and they produce excellent games, with great graphics.





yeah right...
keep telling yourself that.

( PS. I hope your joking )

You have been claiming that Apple is to be blamed for not selling the correct computers for gamers and that Apple will want to sell to gamers because gamers are early adopters. Last time I checked, all the gamers around me don't buy computers all the time. They buy graphics cards and upgrade components very often. I don't think Apple is going to earn much from having their customers buy graphics cards from them.

Face it, instead of whining so much, go get yourself a decent console or PC if you are so hard up for games. The loudest whiners are always the minority, and having supported so many computer users in my University I can easily say that most people are really not bothered about the lacking of gaming on the Mac.
 
honestly, an 8800GTS isn't that expensive

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130082

$290 + a free $50 game.

for comparison, apple sells the 1900 radeon for $500 separately

The thing with PC gaming is...the most important thing is the video card. If you bought a regular midrange computer and threw in this card as well...you can run games well. 290-50 ~ xbox 360 price...not to mention new games are 50$ instead of 60$ on xbox 360 and no xbox live monthly fee.

Unless you're trying to run the latest games at native resolution on a 30" monitor, you don't need to spend over $1000 total on a PC box that can play games well for the next 3 years.
 
Well, it's because topics like these (and others lately) really show the two groups on MacRumors:

1. Steve Jobs Worshipers who believe that Apple can and does no wrong.

2. People who are critical of Apple on certain issues.

w00master

I fall somewhere in between. When touting Apple to my roommate and other Windows users, I fit squarely in the first category. Amongst devout apple fans I'm much more openly critical.
 
Well, it's because topics like these (and others lately) really show the two groups on MacRumors:

1. Steve Jobs Worshipers who believe that Apple can and does no wrong.

2. People who are critical of Apple on certain issues.

w00master

You forgot a third group, whiners who probably don't even own any Macs who come in just to add fuel to the fire. A lot of these people have been appearing ever since the iPhone saga
 
Face it, instead of whining so much, go get yourself a decent console or PC if you are so hard up for games. The loudest whiners are always the minority, and having supported so many computer users in my University I can easily say that most people are really not bothered about the lacking of gaming on the Mac.

Specious reasoning. Perhaps the reason most are not bothered by the lack of gaming on a Mac is because the lack of gaming filters out people who would otherwise be Mac users.
 
Blizzard doesn't have any problems. Neither do many other big name companies. Did Apple shun them away as well? If they did , it seems they did just fine without them.

What is this guy talking about? I think he just has some hidden agenda.
 
Valve has long been anti-Mac. How lame of them to blame Apple for that :rolleyes:

I was going to buy Orange Box for Xbox 360 but this comment has me thinking twice. If I get it now I will wait until I can find it used.

That is just a "POOR" statement... Because Valve and Apple could not come together to release their upcoming game on the MAC platform makes them Anti-MAC.

In fact so "Anti-Mac" they tried and wanted to release the game with Apple. Not only meeting with them once, but twice.

I guess that means they are also Anti-Microsoft because Gabe Newell ripped Vista for it's poor gaming support engine in DirectX 10.

Maybe you did not even read the article.
 
I'm saying its not the Game House fault that they can't produce the quality games on the Mac platform that they think their products deserve, due to lacking hardware. So yes, a large part is down to Apple.

Additionally, its down to economic reasons - software houses aren't going to produce software, such as games if they don't think there is much of a market for a particular platform (read: Apple ).

You said:
"I don't think Apple is going to earn much from having their customers buy graphics cards from them. "
Apple don't make graphic cards therefore Apple wouldn't make a cent ( apart from a small commission for Apple selling graphic cards on their online store ). ATI and NVidia produce the graphic cards that Apple put into their PCs.

BTW - I'm not whining, I'm posting an observation.

Ultimately, Apple Macs will never be a gaming platform.

You have been claiming that Apple is to be blamed for not selling the correct computers for gamers and that Apple will want to sell to gamers because gamers are early adopters. Last time I checked, all the gamers around me don't buy computers all the time. They buy graphics cards and upgrade components very often. I don't think Apple is going to earn much from having their customers buy graphics cards from them.

Face it, instead of whining so much, go get yourself a decent console or PC if you are so hard up for games. The loudest whiners are always the minority, and having supported so many computer users in my University I can easily say that most people are really not bothered about the lacking of gaming on the Mac.
 
Apple's history with gaming sucks turds, Apples history with videocards sucks and Apples history of playing nice with other companys sucks. Look at Bungie And Apple....they ignored them and Microstink well, the rest is Halo history. Apple has to pull its head out of its butt on gaming. Missing out on the HL2 sequels is Apple being stupid. Forest Gump said...stupid is as stupid does and Apples history with gaming is just stupid.

I second the above quote. My impression is that companies like Valve come into Apple and speak with mid-level folks who truly believe it would be nice to improve gaming on the Mac, but then these mid-level folks take the idea up the chain of command where it quickly withers on the vine and dies.

Oh welll... Opportunities missed... But tomorrow is always a new day. :rolleyes:
 
Well, it's because topics like these (and others lately) really show the two groups on MacRumors:

1. Steve Jobs Worshipers who believe that Apple can and does no wrong.

2. People who are critical of Apple on certain issues.

I think you should add:

3. People who label others as Apple fanboys when they disagree with any criticism of Apple, instead of actually arguing the points of said "fanboys."
 
I think you should add:

3. People who label others as Apple fanboys when they disagree with any criticism of Apple, instead of actually arguing the points of said "fanboys."

I think you mis-read what I was commenting on. I was commenting on the original poster who stated that every topic on MacRumors just devolves into a back and forth debate. Well it does, and I spelled out the two (2) groups that I see. Granted you clearly disagree with me which is totally fine. It's just how I've seen things as of late:

Apple fans who are *never* *ever* criticize Apple, and Apple fans who do get criticized then gets lambasted by the previous. Looks like it's happening here again.

Where has this happened before? Let me go through it:

1. iPhone debacle <-- Lack of 3rd party apps.
2. iPhone debacle v2 <-- Unlock hacks
3. iPod touch <-- No ability to add calendar events, yet you can add contacts????
4. Amazon MP3 store
5. DRM debate

So on and so forth. I'm not saying that the critics are right in every area, but I definitely don't believe that Apple is in the clear as many diehards continue to claim. I actually find it very sad that some Apple diehards are SO BLIND that they can't bear to even criticize Apple even a TINY BIT.

w00master
 
I see more half assed comments about mac hardware than just about anything else.

First, let me say that mac graphics cards are NOT underpowered by ANY means. They offer the highest end STABLE card avaliable, and update pretty quickly, save their laptop line (as the same with any other company). "But there no 8800 GTS 5gig overclocked etcetcetc" no ****, and judging by the shoddy drivers and issues with multiples of games already, I doubt it will be ready for "primetime" anytime too soon. Yeah, you beta test hardware and drivers in windows. I would not call a ati x1900 or a 7600gts underpowered. I am pulling better fps on my mac in WoW than MOST the feedback I see on their forums, and a full 20fps faster than in bootcamp on the same system. other games like CoD2 I get 30fps faster than the same in bootcamp, using latest drivers. Hell, I am pulling better fps than most 8800 users in WoW. Stop saying Mac has "shitt" cards becuase it doesn't have the zero day latest. I have yet to find a game I cannot get better than 30fps with my current 7600gts in my iMac 24". I agree that you should be able to upgrade you system to faster cards as they come out however. Even if that means shipping it to Apple and they do it for free or something. There is no reason a iMac 20" that had a x1600 cannot change that to a x1900 later down the road, and with the glarring emptiness that should be a mid-powered stand alone system, not just the expensive mac pro, I think Apple should look into that. Apples retain their value with age quite a bit better than a pc, so with little value loss, why are you using a 2-3 year old mac? I thought it was common knowledge that you have to upgrade every 1-2 years. Also, who the hell buys a laptop FOR gaming? I keep hearing this OVER AND OVER. Laptops are underpowered, slower HDs, slower video cards, etcetc. I do not see anyone buying Dell laptops exclusivly for gaming, how is apple different?

Don't say Apple is fully to blame for the lack of games on OS X either. I am sure porting would have been quite a bit better had Microsoft not used leverage, customer base, and $$ to get game makers to switch from opengl to directx (see HL1 for instance). Microsoft does NOT release the dx engine to anyone, and they will not, of course, release source. They have locked game makers into using DX7+ and game makers cannot redo all of their code to port to other systems, it would be an entirely new game. Microsoft is not releasing any way to port DX APIs to any other system, be is opengl or whatever. So just what is Apple supposed to do at this point? They are stuck with OpenGL as their only gaming platform, they could make their own which would probably rock, but no company is going to pick it up, uprooting all their development on new games just to re-release older games for macs. They would have to make the switch for their new games.... and again the problem comes in. Most games use a gaming engine, then the game is developed around it, and we are back to the problem of totally rewriting the engine for them = not going to happen.
Apple is not the only one in this boat. I do not see linux versions of these game at my standard EB. Don't go after the next "big" player in the field and not point to the other guys that are in the same boat. Where is my DirectX for linux? No, you are stuck with wine and the like, just like mac.
Congrats to the companys that are trying to make a port system to port the calls for directx directly into opengl, but that is a bandaide. Any emulation or realtime conversion will cut performance drastically.

So, you're a hardcore gamer. Ok, then mac is NOT right for you. Apple wanted to create a system that WORKS, always. No bluescreens, no crashes, no irq conflicts, no driver updates every day, none of that **** you go thru as a windows gamer. The system "Just Works" and it works well. Its FAST, and I have had ONE crash since I started using mine, which was due to a 3rd party program accessing fan speeds. Part of the stability macs give you is becuase they do NOT allow you, the moron that THINKS he knows pcs but really doesn't know dick, out of the hardware and drivers to keep you from dicking it up to hell and back. They do NOT have the latest flimsyware graphics cards that are greatly unstable with shoddy drivers just to give you 5-10fps. They sacrifice zero day hardware, for slightly slower greatly more stable and reliable hardware and drivers. They get nvidia and ati to load special firmware on the cards to allow their hardware/software leech everybit of performance WITHOUT overclocking and lessesning the life of the product. I hear ALL THE TIME, "Well I blew my MB overclocking this or installing that, etcetc" and I have YET to hear that with macs. Yeah, I cannot FORCE it to produce 3x the heat to gain 1fps... somehow I will not lose sleep over that. So, all that said, yeah, its NOT a hardcore gamers box. That hardly means its NOT a gaming machine though. You get microsoft to release or even license (they will not do ANY of it!) their proprietary dx engine, and I GARUNTEE you 50x games will be released for mac within a month. Microsoft knows that games are holding the macs back, and they intend to keep it that way, even if they have to PAY companies like valve to continue using ONLY windows.
 
You forgot a third group, whiners who probably don't even own any Macs who come in just to add fuel to the fire. A lot of these people have been appearing ever since the iPhone saga

I think you're looking at things very one-sided. Sure, because of the iPod and iPhone, you find these so-called "haters" appearing on these boards - that's to be expected. But you also have have long-term fans (like myself) and others who have lately have been critical of Apple. I just find it shocking sometimes the extent that the diehards continue to *NOT* criticize Apple even a TINY bit. That's what I find shocking.

Sorry, but NO company is that perfect.

w00master
 
Indifference

Probably a small part is due to the fact that Gabe Newell was a Microsoft employee, and made his millions that he used to start Valve there. ;)

I nearly forgot about that. It probably explains his general indifference towards the Macs. My impression of Gabe, after reading that article, was that he didn't really seem to care one way or another if Half-Life made it to the Mac. It's a shame, since most A-title games make it to the Mac. Half-Life being the notable exception.

However, this is not to say that Gabe's explanation wasn't without merit. It was good to finally hear some reasoning behind why HL hasn't made it to the Mac. But as I mentioned earlier, it sounds like if Apple wasn't going to hold Valve's hand, they weren't going to waste their time on it.

I vaguely recall that Sierra was working on a Mac port of the original HL at one point, and it was 'supposedly' even on schedule, but then the project got cut. Bummer.

But considering I have a shelf full of games I have yet to complete, I'm not too worried about new games. And most of the games I have played in the past year have been for the Nintendo DS -- simple little games that don't take up too much time to play, so I can play a little here or there without feeling pressured to invest a large amount of time towards finishing the game.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.