Why's fragmentation so bad?

[VFC]

The only fragmentation I have seen is the inability to update the android OS itself on most devices. .....

Just like the iPad 1 folks who can't upgrade to iOS 6 and beyond.



And a quote from the OpenSignal report:

"While there are certainly problems associated with fragmentation (and as developers we know them all
too well), it is wrong to suggest that it is only a downside. Apple are currently working on a lower-end
device, increasing the fragmentation of their ecosystem in the process, suggesting that the Android
ecosystem is not only doing something right, but doing something to be imitated."

 

[Jessica Lares]

Just like the iPad 1 folks who can't upgrade to iOS 6 and beyond.

Which is the whole point to keeping an App library in iTunes. If people would just backup their stuff like it says in the terms of service.

 

[Technarchy]

Just like the iPad 1 folks who can't upgrade to iOS 6 and beyond.

That's not fragmentation, that's obsolescence.

And a quote from the OpenSignal report:

"While there are certainly problems associated with fragmentation (and as developers we know them all
too well), it is wrong to suggest that it is only a downside. Apple are currently working on a lower-end
device, increasing the fragmentation of their ecosystem in the process, suggesting that the Android
ecosystem is not only doing something right, but doing something to be imitated."

A. Apple is not working on a "lower end" device. Apple is repacking their iPhone 5 to increase margins. Since Apple has always sold it's previous generation as the lower priced product, this is nothing new and certainly not fragmentation.

B. Even if you believe in the iPhone 5C, it will be on iOS 7 just like iPhone 5S, so there is NO fragmented development environment, API's, user experience, security, application access...etc etc

C. A restore on iOS moves all content to your new iOS device. You can restore across any number of iOS devices without losing anything. Try doing a restore from your HTC One X+ to your GS4 to your ASUS Transformer, to your Nexus 7. You'll break lord knows how many things. Why does it work on iOS, and not Android? iOS is not fragmented like android. No matter how many times people try and drag iOS into android's fragmentation nightmare, you simply cannot compare the two on this issue.

 

[VFC]

That's not fragmentation, that's obsolescence.
......

Okay, I get it. When there are a bunch of apps, that require iOS 6 or higher and won't work on an iPad 1, that's obsolescence. When apps don't run an older Android device, that is called fragmentation. Thanks.

 

[Peterg2]

XDA used to be better in the Windows Mobile days. Minus that ugly yellow layout, hahaha.

Now it's infested with tweens and teenagers.

-snip -

You can say that again! This point was hammered home to me in this thread, although it was not just teens but clearly older people. This thread of 100 posts is all about "having fun" with the HTC's ir remote control in bars, shopping centres etc; you know, like shutting down all the TVs in a bar, etc etc. I was thinking that surely somebody would pipe up and write "ffs, grow up!!". Nobody did. That said, perhaps I really am an old fart.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2381577

 

[Technarchy]

Okay, I get it. When there are a bunch of apps, that require iOS 6 or higher and won't work on an iPad 1, that's obsolescence. When apps don't run an older Android device, that is called fragmentation. Thanks.

Don't be obtuse.

The iPad 1 was released on April 3, 2010. 3+ years ago...In the era of Froyo. I don't think it's a realistic expectation for a Froyo era device to run jellybean. The hardware alone would be a problem, as it certainly is with the iPad 1 and later iterations of iOS.

However Android devices from not even 12 months ago are starting to lag behind, and it's not for a lack of hardware either.

 

[Bear]

...
B. Even if you believe in the iPhone 5C, it will be on iOS 7 just like iPhone 5S, so there is NO fragmented development environment, API's, user experience, security, application access...etc etc
...

And should be the same screen resolution so that's one less thing developers have to worry about. FOr some apps the screen resolution doesn't matter as they can use resolution independent coding. For other apps the graphics have to be updated for each screen resolution.

Okay, I get it. When there are a bunch of apps, that require iOS 6 or higher and won't work on an iPad 1, that's obsolescence. When apps don't run an older Android device, that is called fragmentation. Thanks.

It's not just new apps on older devices with Android, it's older apps on new devices that have issues. And apps that only work on some devices even with the same Android version. As well as the possible screen resolution issues.

 

[Michael Goff]

Okay, I get it. When there are a bunch of apps, that require iOS 6 or higher and won't work on an iPad 1, that's obsolescence. When apps don't run an older Android device, that is called fragmentation. Thanks.

No.

When a 1 yr old Android phone doesn't get an update, that's fragmentation.

We'd all be throttling Apple if they had dropped the iPad after a single year.

 

[VFC]

No.

When a 1 yr old Android phone doesn't get an update, that's fragmentation.

We'd all be throttling Apple if they had dropped the iPad after a single year.

The iPad 4 came out 8 months after I bought my iPad 3. We''l see how long Apple supports the 3.

 

[Michael Goff]

The iPad 4 came out 8 months after I bought my iPad 3. We''l see how long Apple supports the 3.

And if they cut the iPad 3 support off too soon... we then flog them for it. We don't flog them for a potential bad deed.

 

[Deliro]

So much incorrect here. Sigh* It is so obvious when a person has zero knowledge of how Android works, but post like they do.

Posts like yours are useless. You're trying to say the poster is incorrect, yet you do not counter anything. A lot of what this poster said IS correct about fragmentation. I develop for both platforms.

 

[Klosefabrinio]

Because you can have the newest flagship device and a lot of apps are not compatible, despite them being compatible with 'inferior' older hardware.

For example - same device say Samsung S4, you can have Revision|SKU (A) of a flagship device only to find a lot of apps are only compatible with Revision|SKU (B) or (C) due to the differening hardware in your version.

You can also have devices with near identical components and from different manufacturers and an app will be compatible with one, but not the other ....


iOS fragmentation is not the same as Android fragmentation. When people refer to iOS fragmentation they refer to bits of iOS 7 that older devices wont get - such as Airdrop.

However an app programmed for iOS7 for example will [normally] work on any device running iOS 7. Regardless of whether its new or old. Yes there may be performance differences or app limitations but fundamentally it will work regardless of device.


Android fragmentation is more 'hardware based' and effects third party software on a much wider scale than iOS. I still have a load of apps in my purchased section I can not use on my S4 or previous HTC One.

Due to the VAST array of hardware differences an application that lists itself as for Android 4.1 and above will not always run on specific hardware running that OS. And that includes latest devices and older devices.

At times it can be annoying with Android to find a lot of your older software will no longer work on your new device.

At least with iOS if you buy a new iPhone you can pretty much guarantee your entire back catalogue should run on it.

That's the difference between the two. The fact that companies like Samsung can have 3 or 4 different SKU's of the same handset with different chips and graphics processors and radios etc.. - means that the chances of incompatibility are just a lot higher on Android. Thats why it is fragmented, and certainly more so than iOS.

i'm confused, how can a same model have different types of drivers?

----------

In depth article pointing that it is indeed the huge number of devices hardware wise, and running differing OS versions that is why its fragmented.

Yet the article goes on to say that this may not be a bad thing in regards to how Android is continually gaining global marketshare.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/jul/30/android-fragmentation-visualised-opensignal



And the full report in a PDF
http://opensignal.com/reports/fragmentation-2013/fragmentation-2013.pdf

yeah, i also read that fragmentation has also helped android:
http://news.yahoo.com/android-fragmentation-blessing-curse-225517981.html


http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/30/4570582/android-fragmentation-graphics-july-2013
the first chart in this article, i'm a bit confused about it, does it mean that, GS3 has the most amount of "variants (different drivers)"

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If you were a developer, would you dedicate your entire development time/fund in creating good/polished app for one device or dedicate partial time in creating same app for multiple devices?

Different analogy: would you rather cook a couple of tasty meat items for 3-4 guests and make them verry happy or cook combination of veg and non-veg items for 10 guests while devoting the same amount of time.

i'd dedicate my time to create the same app for different devices.

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Android fragmentation means that users are all running different versions of Android. Its not bad, its Apples jab at google for having inconsistent software for all its devices. Apple just likes everyone to be on the same page.

Fragmentation is low on iOS because once you upgrade, youre stuck there. Which isnt a good thing, people may not like the version theyre on, but there is nothing they can do about it.

but apple's also increasing iOS fragmentation by introducing a low-cost device.
did the size increase (in iphone 5) increased the iOS fragmentation?

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The app developers likely just coded for the lowest common denominator then. So what probably happened is they chose to forgo the latest APIs and features so their app could run on as many devices as possible.

what's API? does leaving out some features make the app compatible with more devices?

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Because developers have to spend extra effort on ensuring a playable experience on several devices rather than focusing on a great experience for all.

It's like trying to manage 30 employees versus 3 employees and having no assistants or leaders to help you out.

the best answer, thanks

 

[Michael Goff]

i'm confused, how can a same model have different types of drivers?

----------



yeah, i also read that fragmentation has also helped android:
http://news.yahoo.com/android-fragmentation-blessing-curse-225517981.html


http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/30/4570582/android-fragmentation-graphics-july-2013
the first chart in this article, i'm a bit confused about it, does it mean that, GS3 has the most amount of "variants (different drivers)"

----------



i'd dedicate my time to create the same app for different devices.

----------



but apple's also increasing iOS fragmentation by introducing a low-cost device.
did the size increase (in iphone 5) increased the iOS fragmentation?

----------



what's API? does leaving out some features make the app compatible with more devices?

No they aren't increasing fragmentation by having a lower powered device. Tell me what API they will be missing, then we can talk.

Edit: As for whether or not leaving out API levels makes it compatible with more devices... well, yes and no. If you know that only a select few have API level 17 on their Android device, you're not likely to code for that. A lot of people are coding to Gingerbread, even though Jellybean (all 3 versions now) account for roughly 40% of all people who use the app store.

 

[MRU]

i'm confused, how can a same model have different types of drivers??

Because its an S4 but there are different variations of hardware, therefore different drivers. For example there is the exynos 5 version, the snapdragon 600 version and even a snapdragon 800 version too with different CPU/GPU/LTE configurations etc...

They all look identical but have different hardware under the hood, and that's before you factor in S4 Active, S4 Zoom etc....

 

[Klosefabrinio]

I don't think it's as big of a deal as some people make it out to be.

I'm a heavy Android user, and I switch phones a lot.

In the last year I've had a Galaxy Nexus, Galaxy S3, Galaxy Note 2, HTC One, and now a Galaxy S4.

I have yet to actually find an app I needed, that wasn't compatible with any of my devices.

same here... never faced that problem.

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The only fragmentation I have seen is the inability to update the android OS itself on most devices. It would be one thing if the manufactures would release updated source code then you could compile android yourself. Since manufactures only update the latest models for a very limited time it leaves phones only a year or two old stuck on a older system. Now how does that older system actually affect apps? I would say very little, but I like getting updates. I want the latest version of android, but not everyone feels that way. Lots of people (most actually) could careless what version of android their phone has an long as the phone and the apps still work.

Now the guys on XDA are fantastic at getting newer version of android to work on these "older" phones. That said a lot of the time they just can't get certain hardware to work on some devices. Take the Driod DNA they built Cyanogenmod 10.2 (I think it was) for it but were never able to get bluetooth audio to function correctly. For some they didn't care but for me I use it in my car everyday. If all android devices were built with similar hardware you could use the same source code. It would be ok if they even used a generic hardware source that would just make the devices work, that would be ok. Unfortunately they don't. Each devices requires its own source or drivers to make it work, leaving most out to dry.

Like I said though if you could careless about updates then android is great (buy a Nexus).

are you trying to say that the XDA guys can provide you updates even after the phone's support time period has finished?

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Okay, I get it. When there are a bunch of apps, that require iOS 6 or higher and won't work on an iPad 1, that's obsolescence. When apps don't run an older Android device, that is called fragmentation. Thanks.

yep, that guy totally confused me, good reply.

----------

Because its an S4 but there are different variations of hardware, therefore different drivers. For example there is the exynos 5 version, the snapdragon 600 version and even a snapdragon 800 version too with different CPU/GPU/LTE configurations etc...

They all look identical but have different hardware under the hood, and that's before you factor in S4 Active, S4 Zoom etc....

oh... thanks for explaining.

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Fragmentation affects some key things

App compatibility

OS performance

OS stability

OS security. This is a big one. By abandoning handsets, big gaping security holes are left open making the fragmented environment a playground for malware, and massive vulnerabilities. Bootleg ROM's make the situation worse because their designers will usually not have the skill to deal with holes, or the diligence to go back and fix discovered holes.

The further you are from the most current version, the worse off you are.

It also gimps application performance and developer incentive which in turn affects the quality of applications available.

how does it affect the OS's performance?

 

[Michael Goff]

same here... never faced that problem.

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are you trying to say that the XDA guys can provide you updates even after the phone's support time period has finished?

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yep, that guy totally confused me, good reply.

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oh... thanks for explaining.

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how does it affect the OS's performance?

It's more like... fragmentation hurts performance because the superior Nexus owners will usually have the best performing OS while everyone else will have... lesser.

 

[Klosefabrinio]

No they aren't increasing fragmentation by having a lower powered device. Tell me what API they will be missing, then we can talk.

we'll have to wait till the release of iphone 5c to see which APIs will be left out, but OpenSignal says

Apple are currently working on a lower-end device, increasing the fragmentation of their ecosystem in the process, suggesting that the Android ecosystem is not only doing something right, but doing something to be imitated.

 

[Technarchy]

we'll have to wait till the release of iphone 5c to see which APIs will be left out, but OpenSignal says

Who cares what they say. They don't work for Apple, and all credible leaks point to a plastic iPhone 5, not a so called lower end device since Apple always carries over the previous generation iPhone anyway.

If anything Apple it's trying to mitigate fragmentation with one screen size, one resolution, and high level of development commonality with iOS 7

 

[Klosefabrinio]

XDA used to be better in the Windows Mobile days. Minus that ugly yellow layout, hahaha.

Now it's infested with tweens and teenagers. And it's generally just a place to get help with rooting and get customization stuff. They do have off-topic threads, but most of them are about bacon.

That's why I prefer Androidforums. The crowd there just seems older, and the conversations I'm having there so far are very chilled out and more than just one liners. Oh, and a lot of them are Mac users, so it's a lot less "OMGZ U SUX" comments whenever you mention it.

And the thing is, the other month someone on The Verge forums asked how many of the Android people there were Mac users. The majority are. But then, that place has an older crowd than XDA too in general.

Anyone see all the hate for the guy who uses an iPhone and writes over at Droid Life? That could only happen on an Android site.

My theory is that the majority of Apple hate comes from people who didn't get to experience the iPod.

And hey Assault, let's check out some of your apps then? Links?

how do you know so much... pretty impressed.

 

[Technarchy]

The iPad 4 came out 8 months after I bought my iPad 3. We''l see how long Apple supports the 3.

We'll see for sure, and until that day comes, enjoy iOS 7 and probably iOS 8 when 90% of android users who got a tablet around the same time will be stuck on ice cream sandwich, honey comb, our even gingerbread...

 

[T5BRICK]

With nearly every iPhone release, Apple has introduced a new feature that is only available on the newest hardware. In my mind, this is fragmentation. Yeah, the previous 3 generations of iPhones will be able to use iOS 7. Unfortunately, the older devices don't support all of the newer features. Artificially limited functionality.

Why can't the iPhone 3Gs and 4 do turn by turn directions with Apple Maps? Google Maps does turn by turn and it runs just fine on these devices.

Why isn't Siri available on the iPad 2? The iPad mini is essentially the same device with a smaller screen and it offers Siri.

Anyway, my point is aside from minor annoyances, fragmentation doesn't seem to be causing any huge issues.

 

[Michael Goff]

we'll have to wait till the release of iphone 5c to see which APIs will be left out, but OpenSignal says

And so what if they say that? Some people misuse the word fragmentation. :|

 

[VFC]

We'll see for sure, and until that day comes, enjoy iOS 7 and probably iOS 8 when 90% of android users who got a tablet around the same time will be stuck on ice cream sandwich, honey comb, our even gingerbread...

Well I bought a Nexus 7 shortly after I bought the iPad 3. A year later, I bought the new Nexus 7 (2013) and all 96 apps that were on my old Nexus 7 worked fine on the new Nexus 7.

My son has my old Nexus 7 and will be upgrading to Android 4.3 if he hasn't done so already.

BTW - I also purchased the Yoga 13 (Windows 8) last year and all my important programs, most I used on Windows XP, work fine. Microsoft adapted to the fragmentation problem years ago.

 

[egoistaxx9]

fragmentation also has an advantage, consumers get to choose what they want, screen size, UI, processor etc. in my view, it's advantage is much better than it's disadvantage.

 

[Donvald]

Because you can have the newest flagship device and a lot of apps are not compatible, despite them being compatible with 'inferior' older hardware.

For example - same device say Samsung S4, you can have Revision|SKU (A) of a flagship device only to find a lot of apps are only compatible with Revision|SKU (B) or (C) due to the differening hardware in your version.

You can also have devices with near identical components and from different manufacturers and an app will be compatible with one, but not the other ....


iOS fragmentation is not the same as Android fragmentation. When people refer to iOS fragmentation they refer to bits of iOS 7 that older devices wont get - such as Airdrop.

However an app programmed for iOS7 for example will [normally] work on any device running iOS 7. Regardless of whether its new or old. Yes there may be performance differences or app limitations but fundamentally it will work regardless of device.


Android fragmentation is more 'hardware based' and effects third party software on a much wider scale than iOS. I still have a load of apps in my purchased section I can not use on my S4 or previous HTC One.

Due to the VAST array of hardware differences an application that lists itself as for Android 4.1 and above will not always run on specific hardware running that OS. And that includes latest devices and older devices.

At times it can be annoying with Android to find a lot of your older software will no longer work on your new device.

At least with iOS if you buy a new iPhone you can pretty much guarantee your entire back catalogue should run on it.

That's the difference between the two. The fact that companies like Samsung can have 3 or 4 different SKU's of the same handset with different chips and graphics processors and radios etc.. - means that the chances of incompatibility are just a lot higher on Android. Thats why it is fragmented, and certainly more so than iOS.

This misses the point entirely. Android OS should be compared to general PCs; you check out the specs beforehand and the version of the OS it is running in order to know or have an idea of what you can utlilise on the device.

I wouldn't expect to play DX11 games on a windows xp device until I had upgraded the OS and hardware. With a non upgradable device, its vital to have an idea of what it can do and be expected to do in the future.

This is something most of us do with many other devices, be it a computer, a HDTV, a DVD player, microwave etc; we look ahead at our expected usage and what may come about in the future that the device may be able to do or access.

Apps again, should be alikened to software; 'software A' which is utilised for a Radeon HD7800 running windows 7, may not be able to run at all on Windows Vista on a Nvida 8800 GT. Its misplaced then to blame the platform when getting burnt by not understanding the 'recommended specs' of the software.

The philosophy or the end product of how Android and IOS work offer alternative uses for different users. The trade off for a more PC-like platform is to have the same issues which confront PC users. However, anyone who is familiar with Windows and understands that it is not a closed system and yet can navigate themselves with minimal confusion regarding hardware and OS and the combination's compatibility with a specific piece of software, will have little problem with Android, understanding the tradeoff of the OS.

Obviously, with far less combinations of hardware and software configurations, as opposed to the almost infinite combinations with Android devices, Apps developed for the IOS platform will be less varied in compatibility. The tradeoff with IOS is that apps are somewhat held back by the capabilities of the lower end IOS devices and I'd say are artificially restrained.

So they both have pluses and minus'; the perspective is based on the user's preferred use of their device. No right or wrong answer.