Isn't it 8*3 on M2?
8/16/24 i though it's still 8gb chips ?
Yeah well maybe they could put a single 12gb chip in the base model ?
It's not like they refrained from putting a single nand SSD in new MBA and MBP hahaha
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Will 16GB of Memory Finally Come Standard Alongside the M3 Chip?
- Thread starter Juanchi007
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8/16/24 i though it's still 8gb chips ?
Yeah well maybe they could put a single 12gb chip in the base model ?
It's not like they refrained from putting a single nand SSD in new MBA and MBP hahaha
RAM dual-channel is pretty much ubiquitous in any computer system of the latest 20 years.
I doubt Apple will ever ship a system with a single RAM chip.
The pricing is inspired by Apple, but not much else. A base model M1 Mac offers so much before any upgrades. The base model is by far the most bought Mac, which is why people are asking: when will the base become 16GB?
A Wintel PC is a peace of crap regardless of how much memory and storage you put in. And if they polish the turd just a little bit, they immediately start to ask for Apple prices without offering any quality in return.
This is not the same business model.
I think some of this discussion is mis-framed:
1) Apple does offer 16 GB RAM on all its entry-level models. So the complaint should be more accurately posed as:
"Will Apple cut the starting prices on all its entry-level models by $200?", since that's the upcharge for 16 GB RAM. I.e., this complaint isn't fundamentally about what RAM Apple offers, it's about how much we need to pay for it.
2) Comparisons to PC offerings are misplaced, for two reasons:
a) PC vendors typically charge significantly less for upgrading laptop RAM than Apple does, so the pricing for extra RAM is less of an issue.
E.g., looking at real-world pricing difference for RAM on Amazon,
2022 HP Brightview 15.6", going from 8 GB -> 16 GB is a $60 upcharge:
(https://www.amazon.com/HP-BrightView-Processor-Graphics-Speakers/dp/B0BK9VZ7XG/ref=sr_1_3?crid=23RZZZ8FZDWLE&keywords=hp+laptops&qid=1675544677&sprefix=hp+laptops,aps,131&sr=8-3&ufe=app_do:amzn1.fos.ac2169a1-b668-44b9-8bd0-5ec63b24bcb5&th=1)
2022 HP Pavilion 15.6", going from 16 GB ->32 GB is a $44 upcharge:
Dell charges more for RAM upgrades, but still less than Apple.
b) Many PC laptops offer replaceable RAM, and are thus in an entirely different category from Apple laptops where you have to choose the RAM amount at time of purchase.
1) Apple does offer 16 GB RAM on all its entry-level models. So the complaint should be more accurately posed as:
"Will Apple cut the starting prices on all its entry-level models by $200?", since that's the upcharge for 16 GB RAM. I.e., this complaint isn't fundamentally about what RAM Apple offers, it's about how much we need to pay for it.
2) Comparisons to PC offerings are misplaced, for two reasons:
a) PC vendors typically charge significantly less for upgrading laptop RAM than Apple does, so the pricing for extra RAM is less of an issue.
E.g., looking at real-world pricing difference for RAM on Amazon,
2022 HP Brightview 15.6", going from 8 GB -> 16 GB is a $60 upcharge:
(https://www.amazon.com/HP-BrightView-Processor-Graphics-Speakers/dp/B0BK9VZ7XG/ref=sr_1_3?crid=23RZZZ8FZDWLE&keywords=hp+laptops&qid=1675544677&sprefix=hp+laptops,aps,131&sr=8-3&ufe=app_do:amzn1.fos.ac2169a1-b668-44b9-8bd0-5ec63b24bcb5&th=1)
2022 HP Pavilion 15.6", going from 16 GB ->32 GB is a $44 upcharge:
Dell charges more for RAM upgrades, but still less than Apple.
b) Many PC laptops offer replaceable RAM, and are thus in an entirely different category from Apple laptops where you have to choose the RAM amount at time of purchase.
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it's 2x4GB, 2x8GB or 2x12GB
When people say the base model only has 8GB they mean the cheapest SKU. Sure you can BTO to 16GB+ but that's a different thing entirely. It's not the entry level model anymore when you're spending a ridiculous extra $200 for 8 more GB of RAM and waiting 2 weeks to get it.
I bought 64GB (32x2) of DDR5 RAM for $275. That Apple sells a 8GB upgrade for $200 is a crime.
As I have said in the past, the real issue with Apple is their BTO model, which make them different from PC vendors and less consumer friendly... The amount Apple charges for their RAM and SSDs upgrades are not only larger (often significantly larger) than their PC counterparts, but, crucially BTO models are hardly ever on sale, contrary to base models and to equivalent PC configurations with upgraded RAM and storage.
Microsoft may be the exception but simply because the unfortunately copy the Apple model.
You can easily find new PC laptops with 16GB on sale for under $500 and if you go up to $600 or $700 you will find very good devices with the latest Ryzen chips, PCIe 4 SSDs etc. (and before someone comes and say sales don't matter, they absolutely do, lots of people buy on sale not at full price). And the argument that Full HD is crap and only higher resolutions should be compared is typical of Apple fanboys. Sure higher resolutions is nice, but 16GB of RAM nowadays should be standand well before 3k/4k resolutions, especially on 13" laptops. And especially for Chrome users (which means the majority of users worldwide). Most users with 8GB RAM (and plenty of tabs open) simply don't realize their are contantly writing to the SSD (and wearing it) and when that causes a slowdown they just don't know what the cause of the slowdown was...
Microsoft may be the exception but simply because the unfortunately copy the Apple model.
You can easily find new PC laptops with 16GB on sale for under $500 and if you go up to $600 or $700 you will find very good devices with the latest Ryzen chips, PCIe 4 SSDs etc. (and before someone comes and say sales don't matter, they absolutely do, lots of people buy on sale not at full price). And the argument that Full HD is crap and only higher resolutions should be compared is typical of Apple fanboys. Sure higher resolutions is nice, but 16GB of RAM nowadays should be standand well before 3k/4k resolutions, especially on 13" laptops. And especially for Chrome users (which means the majority of users worldwide). Most users with 8GB RAM (and plenty of tabs open) simply don't realize their are contantly writing to the SSD (and wearing it) and when that causes a slowdown they just don't know what the cause of the slowdown was...
I think that's not unique to Apple. The industry as a whole has been delivering 8GB of RAM as a baseline for a while now. That being said, I think that, during that time, it has become less and less sufficient for a growing number of users. For my money, any M1 or M2 Mac I'm intending to be serious about will have at least 16GB. The M1 Macs that I own that have 8GB are not used for anything other than IT testing and testing software installations for MDM solutions and occasional e-mail checking, web browsing, and Netflixing.
When I was deciding on purchasing my M1 MacBook Pro in 2020, I looked into upgrading the RAM. But then I realized, what I am going to be doing with this device was not gonna warrant needing 16 GBs which was the max at the time. What I did instead was up the storage. Personally, I wish had waited longer since I could have gotten a good deal on it. What Apple should be doing is making 512 GBs the default storage.
Other than that, for what I use my M1 for: web browsing, managing my spreadsheet, view and organize photos, listen to streaming music, watch YouTube, it’s more than sufficient. I even edited my friends wedding video in 4K on it. Rendered it in 15 minutes versus 1 hour on my 2015 Intel MBP (Broadwell).
Apple does a lot of research on who is using their products and they know who needs what in most cases. I think the storage is just business, the more you spend on that the more profit for them. Otherwise, I have been reflecting and I probably won’t buy another MacBook until Apple stops supporting newer macOS releases on it. Which is likely gonna be a while.
My 2015 MBP came with Yosemite and I have been able to upgrade all the way the Monterrey. That’s seven macOS releases and I still use it as a night stand computer. That could suggest I will still be using this M1 Mac in 2027 or 2028.
Other than that, for what I use my M1 for: web browsing, managing my spreadsheet, view and organize photos, listen to streaming music, watch YouTube, it’s more than sufficient. I even edited my friends wedding video in 4K on it. Rendered it in 15 minutes versus 1 hour on my 2015 Intel MBP (Broadwell).
Apple does a lot of research on who is using their products and they know who needs what in most cases. I think the storage is just business, the more you spend on that the more profit for them. Otherwise, I have been reflecting and I probably won’t buy another MacBook until Apple stops supporting newer macOS releases on it. Which is likely gonna be a while.
My 2015 MBP came with Yosemite and I have been able to upgrade all the way the Monterrey. That’s seven macOS releases and I still use it as a night stand computer. That could suggest I will still be using this M1 Mac in 2027 or 2028.
I think the current specs could potentially have a negative effect on sales. Mind you I would indeed think that Apple is doing more market research than me on this topic, but..
They don't talk about (their abysmal level of) RAM when selling iPhones. That's very smart of them. But they don't get away with this for standard computers.
A buyer of a laptop will be presented the information about RAM up front and notice that the Mac has substatially less than other models in the same price bracket. If you're not yet hooked on a Mac, this becomes a factor in your buying decision.
I think since the Mac is always living dangerously close to be overlooked by a portion of third-party developers, you want to see a fresh stream of swayed buyers all the time so the platform stays healthy. I'm sure the new price of the Mac Mini reflects that Apple is very aware of this, but took another approach when lowering the base price instead.
They don't talk about (their abysmal level of) RAM when selling iPhones. That's very smart of them. But they don't get away with this for standard computers.
A buyer of a laptop will be presented the information about RAM up front and notice that the Mac has substatially less than other models in the same price bracket. If you're not yet hooked on a Mac, this becomes a factor in your buying decision.
I think since the Mac is always living dangerously close to be overlooked by a portion of third-party developers, you want to see a fresh stream of swayed buyers all the time so the platform stays healthy. I'm sure the new price of the Mac Mini reflects that Apple is very aware of this, but took another approach when lowering the base price instead.
Add the extra 3 years of Security Updates which ups its useful lifespan from Nov 2020 to Nov 2030.
2020 5nm chip to 2030 7 Angrstrom chip.
If you do OLCP my guess is you can push it to Nov 2040 but of course quality of life improvements goes negative beyond 2030.
God knows, why some people always believe the Mac is in some kind of danger versus the so-called competition?
I completely agree, a 16GB base should be standard across the board. That would be a massive reason to upgrade or switch. As long as the price of the upper tier isn’t beyond sanity’s reach financially.
Not really. DDR5 RAM was quite expensive (2021 it was about $1,000 for 16GB of RAM) and we are finally seeing it trend to more reasonable prices. I am not quite sure where people get this from as Newegg and others has not been different for me in my 20+ years of building computers. Obviously 16GB of RAM was an absurd amount in 2006 (was it even supported?), but the equivalent in 2006 (one step above a general baseline) is the same price today as it was in 2006. I have many order receipts I checked to make sure I was right on this and its generally the same most is like a 5% difference here and there.
I had a couple of Surface devices. Worst products I ever had and they were more expensive that a Dell XPS which is generally loved and compared to Macs. What I DO like about Microsoft's products is significant less bloat compared to other OEMs.
I think you're missing my point. The base Air with 8 GB retails for $1200. Consider two scenarios:
1) Apple changes the base SKU to 16 GB and charges $1400.
2) Apple keeps the base SKU at 8 GB, but cuts the price across the board by $200. Thus the new base SKU (8GB) is $1000, and the 16 GB SKU is $1200.
Which would people prefer? Obviously no. 2. That means the complaint really is not about the config of the base SKU, it's about what Apple charges.
This video is so wholly irrelevant to my point, to your own point and to the latest earning report. Why did you even bother quoting me?
Because you dared to suggest, that the platform might not stay healthy and could be overlooked by third-party developers. The whole defeatist attitude of your post bothered me. That's why I hit you with another Apple Silicon is insanely great videos by Luke Miani. I think you need to hear this message. So that you stop making points, who are so wholly irrelevant to reality. In fact nobody gives a **** about specs or else people would buy those cheap Windows laptops or pay up for higher specced Macs. Neither is happening, most people chose a base model MacBook and are fine with it.
Technically it’s the same speed but they are reducing the number of chips which halves the potential overall speed. For the majority of users they wouldn’t notice anyway.
I am not sure it is so much a big leap, since you can already get any Apple laptop with 16GB of memory….if your willing to shell out an extra $200.
So really the question is when will Apple increase the value of their Macs by $200 (or decrease the price by $200, depending on how you want to look at it).
I actually find the fact that Apple ships products with 256GB of storage more embarrassing than the 8GB of RAM. Although I agree with you, those both need to come down in price from Apple. The upgrade fees are too expensive (or the base configurations are too low, depending on how you want to look at it).