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Will Apple continue to optimize OS 3.x for non-3GS iPhones?
- Thread starter TheSpaz
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I really do not understand the complaints about 3.0 performance on pre-3GS devices, and I think I have even said so in past posts to other threads here in these forums.
I too was a huge fan of 2.2.1. It solved so many issues for me that I had suffered through since the release of 2.0. 2.2.1 was just an absolutely rock-solid performer for me for almost 6 months (from the point of its release until the release of 3.0).
I saw what a mess Apple managed to make of a good thing with 2.0 up through even 2.2. It took them nearly half a year to get it right (by which I mean performance and lack of bugs; not with features, obviously), and I was extremely afraid that 3.0 might start this cycle all over again. Because of this, I had many reservations about upgrading.
But 3.0 has been absolutely AWESOME on my 3G. There has been absolutely no performance degradation whatsoever, AND this is coming from someone who also has their phone jailbroken. In fact, in many areas, performance has been BETTER than any version of 2.x ever was.
- Application launch times are exactly the same as before.
- Transitional animations seem smoother and more fluid to me.
- I have no regular occurrences of software "hanging"
- Keyboard responsiveness is especially fantastic in every app.
- Bootup time has improved.
- RAM/memory management is WAY IMPROVED (more below).
That last point is what really has me sold on 3.0. On 2.2.1, I used Backgrounder, but it was sometimes an exercise in patience: because of the very limited amount of RAM in the original iPhone and the iPhone 3G, it was a challenge to have even 2 moderately-sized programs running simultaneously, and not because there was any kind of performance degradation, but simply because there was never enough RAM for them both to run at the same time, and because of this, often the one that wasn't in the foreground would get OOM-killed by the OS kernel when more RAM was needed (examples: Safari or Maps in foreground with Pandora in background...the Pandora process would often just die after a few minutes, or if you tried to do anything with the foreground application). I often could run Nimbuzz (to remain signed into GTalk) and Pandora simultanously, as long as I didn't do anything else, but that was never a given, either.
In 3.0, I have been BLOWN AWAY with how well multitasking works on the 3G. It is astounding. First, the phone boots up with 40MB+ available right out of the gate, which is well above what I remember 2.2.1 ever giving me. But it doesn't seem to end there...I don't know how it does it, but the OS seems to somehow miraculously be able to pull more available RAM out of its butt even after I have consumed what SBSettings shows as available.
As an example, yesterday I had Nimbuzz, Mail, Safari, Pandora, AND Facebook open, all at the same time (I kid you not...I was as amazed that this worked as you probably are hearing about it), and it still showed about 7MB free. After I quit Facebook, I had around 35MB free, even with the other four applications still running.
Even better, my phone did not slow down appreciably with all of these apps running. It still remained as responsive as ever.
I have only experienced one annoying performance-related bug, which I'm sure has probably already been addressed in 3.1: almost half the time I try to quit an app by hitting the home button, it takes a while for the app to dismiss itself. But other times it responds immediately. But this is a minor quibble, and is the only area where the phone does not feel perfectly responsive.
I was set on upgrading to the 3GS when I heard that it had 256MB of RAM as I really want an iPhone that can easily multitask. I even went out and bought one, but I haven't changed over to it yet because I've been fighting Apple over the piss-poor (literally
) quality LCD. After my experiment last night, though, I'm wondering if I even really need the 3GS after all!
So based solely on my experience with 3.0 running on a 3G, I have to conclude that those who are having problems with 3.0 in the performance arena are having some sort of problem or problems unique to them, as my use of 3.0 on a pre-3GS device clearly shows that it is capable of the same great performance of 2.2.1 on the same device, and even excels above 2.2.1 in other areas (the new RAM/VM system is nothing short of a miracle). I don't know what is causing your performance problems or how to fix them; I'm assuming those of you who have problems with 3.0 performance have tried a complete wipe/full OS reload WITHOUT restoring from backup or re-syncing from iTunes, just to see if a virgin install performs acceptably?
-- Nathan
I too was a huge fan of 2.2.1. It solved so many issues for me that I had suffered through since the release of 2.0. 2.2.1 was just an absolutely rock-solid performer for me for almost 6 months (from the point of its release until the release of 3.0).
I saw what a mess Apple managed to make of a good thing with 2.0 up through even 2.2. It took them nearly half a year to get it right (by which I mean performance and lack of bugs; not with features, obviously), and I was extremely afraid that 3.0 might start this cycle all over again. Because of this, I had many reservations about upgrading.
But 3.0 has been absolutely AWESOME on my 3G. There has been absolutely no performance degradation whatsoever, AND this is coming from someone who also has their phone jailbroken. In fact, in many areas, performance has been BETTER than any version of 2.x ever was.
- Application launch times are exactly the same as before.
- Transitional animations seem smoother and more fluid to me.
- I have no regular occurrences of software "hanging"
- Keyboard responsiveness is especially fantastic in every app.
- Bootup time has improved.
- RAM/memory management is WAY IMPROVED (more below).
That last point is what really has me sold on 3.0. On 2.2.1, I used Backgrounder, but it was sometimes an exercise in patience: because of the very limited amount of RAM in the original iPhone and the iPhone 3G, it was a challenge to have even 2 moderately-sized programs running simultaneously, and not because there was any kind of performance degradation, but simply because there was never enough RAM for them both to run at the same time, and because of this, often the one that wasn't in the foreground would get OOM-killed by the OS kernel when more RAM was needed (examples: Safari or Maps in foreground with Pandora in background...the Pandora process would often just die after a few minutes, or if you tried to do anything with the foreground application). I often could run Nimbuzz (to remain signed into GTalk) and Pandora simultanously, as long as I didn't do anything else, but that was never a given, either.
In 3.0, I have been BLOWN AWAY with how well multitasking works on the 3G. It is astounding. First, the phone boots up with 40MB+ available right out of the gate, which is well above what I remember 2.2.1 ever giving me. But it doesn't seem to end there...I don't know how it does it, but the OS seems to somehow miraculously be able to pull more available RAM out of its butt even after I have consumed what SBSettings shows as available.
As an example, yesterday I had Nimbuzz, Mail, Safari, Pandora, AND Facebook open, all at the same time (I kid you not...I was as amazed that this worked as you probably are hearing about it), and it still showed about 7MB free. After I quit Facebook, I had around 35MB free, even with the other four applications still running.
Even better, my phone did not slow down appreciably with all of these apps running. It still remained as responsive as ever.
I have only experienced one annoying performance-related bug, which I'm sure has probably already been addressed in 3.1: almost half the time I try to quit an app by hitting the home button, it takes a while for the app to dismiss itself. But other times it responds immediately. But this is a minor quibble, and is the only area where the phone does not feel perfectly responsive.
I was set on upgrading to the 3GS when I heard that it had 256MB of RAM as I really want an iPhone that can easily multitask. I even went out and bought one, but I haven't changed over to it yet because I've been fighting Apple over the piss-poor (literally
) quality LCD. After my experiment last night, though, I'm wondering if I even really need the 3GS after all!So based solely on my experience with 3.0 running on a 3G, I have to conclude that those who are having problems with 3.0 in the performance arena are having some sort of problem or problems unique to them, as my use of 3.0 on a pre-3GS device clearly shows that it is capable of the same great performance of 2.2.1 on the same device, and even excels above 2.2.1 in other areas (the new RAM/VM system is nothing short of a miracle). I don't know what is causing your performance problems or how to fix them; I'm assuming those of you who have problems with 3.0 performance have tried a complete wipe/full OS reload WITHOUT restoring from backup or re-syncing from iTunes, just to see if a virgin install performs acceptably?
-- Nathan
I really do not understand the complaints about 3.0 performance on pre-3GS devices, and I think I have even said so in past posts to other threads here in these forums.
I too was a huge fan of 2.2.1. It solved so many issues for me that I had suffered through since the release of 2.0. 2.2.1 was just an absolutely rock-solid performer for me for almost 6 months (from the point of its release until the release of 3.0).
I saw what a mess Apple managed to make of a good thing with 2.0 up through even 2.2. It took them nearly half a year to get it right (by which I mean performance and lack of bugs; not with features, obviously), and I was extremely afraid that 3.0 might start this cycle all over again. Because of this, I had many reservations about upgrading.
But 3.0 has been absolutely AWESOME on my 3G. There has been absolutely no performance degradation whatsoever, AND this is coming from someone who also has their phone jailbroken. In fact, in many areas, performance has been BETTER than any version of 2.x ever was.
- Application launch times are exactly the same as before.
- Transitional animations seem smoother and more fluid to me.
- I have no regular occurrences of software "hanging"
- Keyboard responsiveness is especially fantastic in every app.
- Bootup time has improved.
- RAM/memory management is WAY IMPROVED (more below).
That last point is what really has me sold on 3.0. On 2.2.1, I used Backgrounder, but it was sometimes an exercise in patience: because of the very limited amount of RAM in the original iPhone and the iPhone 3G, it was a challenge to have even 2 moderately-sized programs running simultaneously, and not because there was any kind of performance degradation, but simply because there was never enough RAM for them both to run at the same time, and because of this, often the one that wasn't in the foreground would get OOM-killed by the OS kernel when more RAM was needed (examples: Safari or Maps in foreground with Pandora in background...the Pandora process would often just die after a few minutes, or if you tried to do anything with the foreground application). I often could run Nimbuzz (to remain signed into GTalk) and Pandora simultanously, as long as I didn't do anything else, but that was never a given, either.
In 3.0, I have been BLOWN AWAY with how well multitasking works on the 3G. It is astounding. First, the phone boots up with 40MB+ available right out of the gate, which is well above what I remember 2.2.1 ever giving me. But it doesn't seem to end there...I don't know how it does it, but the OS seems to somehow miraculously be able to pull more available RAM out of its butt even after I have consumed what SBSettings shows as available.
As an example, yesterday I had Nimbuzz, Mail, Safari, Pandora, AND Facebook open, all at the same time (I kid you not...I was as amazed that this worked as you probably are hearing about it), and it still showed about 7MB free. After I quit Facebook, I had around 35MB free, even with the other four applications still running.
Even better, my phone did not slow down appreciably with all of these apps running. It still remained as responsive as ever.
I have only experienced one annoying performance-related bug, which I'm sure has probably already been addressed in 3.1: almost half the time I try to quit an app by hitting the home button, it takes a while for the app to dismiss itself. But other times it responds immediately. But this is a minor quibble, and is the only area where the phone does not feel perfectly responsive.
I was set on upgrading to the 3GS when I heard that it had 256MB of RAM as I really want an iPhone that can easily multitask. I even went out and bought one, but I haven't changed over to it yet because I've been fighting Apple over the piss-poor (literally
So based solely on my experience with 3.0 running on a 3G, I have to conclude that those who are having problems with 3.0 in the performance arena are having some sort of problem or problems unique to them, as my use of 3.0 on a pre-3GS device clearly shows that it is capable of the same great performance of 2.2.1 on the same device, and even excels above 2.2.1 in other areas (the new RAM/VM system is nothing short of a miracle). I don't know what is causing your performance problems or how to fix them; I'm assuming those of you who have problems with 3.0 performance have tried a complete wipe/full OS reload WITHOUT restoring from backup or re-syncing from iTunes, just to see if a virgin install performs acceptably?
-- Nathan
I've restored to a brand new setup (no backups) and I still have the same stuttering and choppy animations. I guess that's what I'm talking about most. 2.2.1's animations were smooth flowing, but 3.0 has degraded my experience with the graphics. Launching apps seems choppier now... bringing up the keyboard in Messages is choppy, swiping between screens seems choppier, rotating the iPod app is choppier. It just seems like the graphics performance suffers in 3.x.
I know all of this because I can compare it directly to an iPhone running 2.2.1 and it's amazing how much more fluid 2.2.1 is compared to 3.0. Like you said... I didn't notice any launch time difference as far as speed goes.
Wow, you're a lucky man then. My experience has been the complete and utter opposite of yours.
- Apps take way longer to launch and sometimes they don't even launch with the animation. They just pop right up.
- Animations are choppy as heck.
- Apps don't "hang" per se, but I have noticed some weird glitches that weren't there before.
- Keyboard responsiveness is awful. I can type a whole word, wait a few seconds, then the keyboard catches up. It's quite annoying.
- Bootup time has almost doubled for me.
- Don't know about memory management, but Safari does a lot more reloading of pages than it used to.
This is on a 2G, but the 3G is not that much better hardware-wise.
Feel free to stop by for a visit if you are ever in or around Northern ID/Eastern WA and I'll let you use my phone yourself.
WTF? Of course it can't. But because of how fast task-switching can be accomplished on modern processors (even of the class inside the original iPhone and the 3G), the illusion that it is able to can be manufactured. And it is a most convincing illusion. In fact, it is so convincing that people have been using "multitasking" operating systems on their PCs for nearly 15 years before the advent of multi-core computing for the masses.
-- Nathan
If you want your posts to be taken seriously, perhaps you should treat others as you want to be treated.
Just because you experience one thing doesn't mean others experience the same. Even if 10 people experience one thing - it doesn't mean everyone else experiences the same thing
And even if 10 percent of ALL iphones do "this" or do "that" doesn't mean everyone's iphone does it.
have a nice day
I think some people's perception is different than others. One might say "Mine is fine" but they just don't have enough attention to notice if their iPhone is *really* fine. You see what I'm saying? Just because he says everything is smooth for him, doesn't mean I should believe him.
I'm pretty sure all iPhone 3G's are the same. They all have the same processor, graphics processor and memory. So when I download 3.0 onto my iPhone and chose to not restore to a previous backup, I should have a virgin OS with all default settings. So in theory, my iPhone should run as well as Nathan's but it does not run in the way he is describing. That's what I'm saying. I'm not sure how that can vary from device to device.
Unless Jailbreaking 3.0 actually speeds it up (which would be the first time in jailbreak history).
And I disagree. Electronics are not infallible. Perhaps the memory in your device isn't as good of a build. Or perhaps you have a very different usage pattern, configurations, battery power differentials, etc.
I would argue that most of the same build/model of any electronic device are WITHIN operating specs and vary a little to the plus and minus side of "normal". So there can and will be differences.
As for your first comment - you just don't know. You don't have his phone. And he doesn't have your phone. Maybe you're being overly picky, maybe he's more forgiving. Point is - if YOU want to be believed, then you shouldn't think that someone else is "wrong" for having a different opinion/experience.
You could say something looks teal and another person says it looks blue-green or aqua. Doesn't make either person right or wrong.
::shakes head::
Have you ever used a computer in like, I don't know - the past 10 years? I'm pretty sure computers 10 years ago with 1 CPU performed more than one task.
Electronics aren't like that. 2 identical iPhones should perform exactly the same. I don't think you know what you're talking about. Why is it that OS 2.2.1 runs flawlessly for me but, 3.0 sucks (even without restoring to a backup)? Am I supposed to go to the Genius Bar and say "I upgraded to OS 3.0 and my iPhone is defective now because it doesn't perform like 2.2.1 used to. I must have a bad RAM module or a slower processor than normal."?
Don't tell me, tell goosnarrggh. He's the one who doesn't know what multi-tasking is.
Are all paper rolls exactly the same, TheSpaz? Are all inks 100 percent the same pigment or do they vary?
I know EXACTLY what I am talking about. There are acceptable ranges in quality control.
Just like it IS possible that something happened when you downloaded the 3.0 os onto your phone. Or perhaps your hard drive at home had a bad sector or whatever.
There are a million and one ways your phone might differ in 3.0 versus another persons phone.
Do you know for a fact your memory is identical to the person you are comparing it to? The clock speed is 100 percent the same? You are operating the phone in the exact same environmental conditions? You're switching from the same app to the same app?
Again - my point is - just because YOU experience something one way does NOT mean everyone does. Period. That's simply a point you cannot argue with.
I know EXACTLY what I am talking about. There are acceptable ranges in quality control.
Just like it IS possible that something happened when you downloaded the 3.0 os onto your phone. Or perhaps your hard drive at home had a bad sector or whatever.
There are a million and one ways your phone might differ in 3.0 versus another persons phone.
Do you know for a fact your memory is identical to the person you are comparing it to? The clock speed is 100 percent the same? You are operating the phone in the exact same environmental conditions? You're switching from the same app to the same app?
Again - my point is - just because YOU experience something one way does NOT mean everyone does. Period. That's simply a point you cannot argue with.
Yes, I see what you're saying. Only you are perceptive enough to notice the subtle speed and video differences, no one else is. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.
I disagree with everything you just said. Different iPhones with the same hardware and same software configurations should run exactly the same. There are no differences. The only time there would be a difference is if I had done something to my software to make it act up.
It's not my computer, it's not a bad sector. It's Apple's firmware running on old hardware
We discussed this in another thread. You talked about the icons not flying away properly when opening an app. I told you that the app opened so fast that I couldn't see any fly-away behavior. To me, all I care about is that the app opens fast. Period. You are fixated on the fly-away behavior, and I understand that might pinpoint some kind of issue. However, the main thing is that the phone does what you want. I could care less if it looks pretty having fly-away icons, since that means the app might not open as fast as I want. To others, like you, that might be a problem. If anything, that should be an option. Anyway, I'm glad it opens the way it does. You're not. If it's a bug report it. But, I agree with samcraig on this, we're entitled to our opinion, just like you are. No one is right here, I think. Just different opinions.
You've made the point, tirelessly, about how dire 3.0 is on your pre 3GS iPhone, and you can state and restate it as much as you like, but it won't change the experience other people have.
For example, I run 3.0 on my 2G iPhone. It runs very well. There are small lags in opening apps that weren't there prior to 3.0, and there are small lags in connecting to known wifis which weren't there previously, but once the app is open or the wifi connected, the performance of the 2G iPhone is just about the same now with 3.0 as it was before with 2.2.1. It's not slower, it's not buggy. It's just not much different.
You said that people perceive differently and you're right. But it works both ways. Not only is it possible that I'm far more tolerant to slow performance than you are, but it's also possible that you are far LESS tolerant to small performance degradation.
You can state your point of view as a personal opinion and (as long as you don't sink into insult when people disagree, as they inevitably will) that opinion will be respected. What you can't do is tell other people what their experience is. You have no tolerance to what you perceive as the performance of 3.0 on pre 3GS iPhone. I get that. We ALL get that. But it doesn't mean those perceptions of yours are fact upon which you can then base a whole raft of assumptions.
Sure, some agree with you as is inevitable because some are going to have the same level of tolerances you do. Others disagree. Both can be valid.
As to the notion that two identical systems should have identical performance, you're right. As long as they ARE identical. Since electronic components have performance tolerances they all vary, so what outwardly looks identical is not identical at all. Performance will vary to some extent depending on those component tolerances. I doubt that explains the difference in perception between your 3.0 experience and mine however. I think that's human tolerance not the machine.
The issue is TheSpaz does this endlessly. Yes, it comes in slightly different forms, like this thread, but it's all the same drivel; imaginary performance/video issues only he is perceptive enough to notice. Initially he obsessed over jailbreaking causing lag. His latest obsession is 3.0 causes lag. I wish he'd buy a different phone and find another site to annoy people.
+1, since you stated my feelings above far more eloquently. However, what I don't like is how people insult spaz, when they don't agree with him. I find that happens more than him insulting others. Just my opinion and maybe they have their reasons and maybe there is history I don't know about.
I forgot to mention. I have both the iPhone 3G and original iPhone and they both have the same performance issues. What are the chances that I got 2 different iPhones that have bad RAM or bad processors or bad file sectors in the firmware?
I think it's fair to say that 2.2.1 has better graphics performance than 3.0 or 3.1 (I've used both).
Stop trying to pretend your iPhone works flawlessly. I guess if you don't notice the difference, all power to you. I however, do notice the difference and I was just wondering the likelyhood of Apple fixing it.
I think it's fair to say that 2.2.1 has better graphics performance than 3.0 or 3.1 (I've used both).
Stop trying to pretend your iPhone works flawlessly. I guess if you don't notice the difference, all power to you. I however, do notice the difference and I was just wondering the likelyhood of Apple fixing it.
I'm not saying this to be mean. But TheSpaz - YOU ARE NOT the definitive voice on the issue. ALL you can say is YOUR EXPERIENCE with 3.0 has been slower on YOUR device.
No one here is PRETENDING our iPhones work flawlessly. That comment I just find absurd. And that comment/attitude is why you get the responses you get. Put your ego in check and just state your experience without having it to be THE FINAL WORD.
Thanks.
My experiences of 3.0 on my 3G are equally poor and at this point I'm considering going back to 2.2.1.
From other forum comments here and elsewhere, it looks like NathanA is one of the few people to think that the 3G runs faster/smoother on 3.0 software.
Sahajesh
From other forum comments here and elsewhere, it looks like NathanA is one of the few people to think that the 3G runs faster/smoother on 3.0 software.
Sahajesh
It's very, very likely that OS 4.0 will only support the 3GS and above. Why? Because the 4th-generation iPhone (whatever they decide to call it) will have the same or better performance as the 3GS. In addition, it'll come out when most everyone who bought a 3G 's contract is up (or nearly up). This of course excludes those who buy the $99 iPhone.
In essence, most everyone will have, or be able to have, an iPhone 3GS or better by next July, and if Apple wants to continue to put better features into the OS, they'll inevitably be forced to shut out old hardware. A new App Store (such as the "premium" App Store rumors) or other processor-heavy features could well make this a reality, especially since with copy and paste, MMS etc. being in 3.0 there isn't much more to add to the older hardware to make it competitive.
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