Will Apple ever build the 17 (or 16.5) inch MBP? [Merged]

[jerryk]

Ask and ye shall receive?

16" MBP with 6K display coming accord to Ming-Chi Kuo

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-2-and-more-predicted-for-2019-video.2170368/

 

[vaugha]

Are you being serious or sarcastic?

One would think that if they'd "learned their lessons" the keyboards (as one example) would have been fixed already here in 2018

They tried fixing it w/ v3. It didn't work. Then they should know by now w/o having something completely new, v4 is pretty much futile.

 

[turbineseaplane]

They tried fixing it w/ v3. It didn't work. Then they should know by now w/o having something completely new, v4 is pretty much futile.

That’s what most of would have said about v3 too.

I hope you’re right. The keyboards are the main reason I still enjoy my 2015.
There are other reasons, but the keyboard is #1 far and away.

 

[vaugha]

That’s what most of would have said about v3 too.

I hope you’re right. The keyboards are the main reason I still enjoy my 2015.
There are other reasons, but the keyboard is #1 far and away.

I just can't imagine apple using the same godforsaken 3rd gen keys when the design is supposed to be "all-new". Seems to me that if it happens this year, they're trying to do damage control due to horrendous reputation hits from butterfly keys.

These guys are smart btw. They know how to sell and entice people into spending. If the news said, "another 15.4" mbp in the works" then half of us would be crying for better keys. The other half would be like, "I will have to wait and see". But it's all new 16+" in the works, so it will have a lot of people excited b/c we haven't had one in a long time and knowing apple, I would not be surprised if they kept the same dimensions and minimized the bezels in all 4 corners and call it a 16". The wording of "all-new" eludes to possibility of a different keyboard design too, so there is hope here.

 

[turbineseaplane]

These guys are smart btw.

And greedy these days..

We'll see on the keyboards..
Again, we are basing all of this off of rumors

I really hope they truly have done something all new but less "innovative".
Great keyboards exist (not Apple's anymore mostly) - make something boring but functional and reliable (for the KB part)

 

[Thysanoptera]

Keyboard issues? Apple is very good at fixing troublesome system components, which are either too thick for its laptop vision, too easy to upgrade or just doesn’t work as it should. Remove it!!

You know they filed a patent for a laptop without physical keyboard last year? And it looks from the application like they have haptic feedback of key presses all figured out and working. Enjoy!

 

[turbineseaplane]

Keyboard issues? Apple is very good at fixing troublesome system components, which are either too thick for its laptop vision, too easy to upgrade or just doesn’t work as it should. Remove it!!

You know they filed a patent for a laptop without physical keyboard last year? And it looks from the application like they have haptic feedback of key presses all figured out and working. Enjoy!

Better yet - who needs to type anyways, right?
Let's just all use Siri - that technology is flawless, fast....amazing...class leading..

"it just works"

 

[Marketh]

Before you can theorise about this, you need to define what you mean by "pro"?



I'd consider myself a pro user, I've literally never used an SD (or any other kind of memory card) slot in my life, and my only complaint about ports is that they don't have more TB3 ports.

I define 'pro user' as someone who uses their MBP for a professional use. I admit this could apply to an office worker who uses nothing but a word processor, but largely 'pro' Mac users from my experience are involved in development, IT or creative professions.

Just because you don't use the SD card slot doesn't mean another user in another profession won't rely on it heavily.

Different horses for different courses, and all that.

 

[Stephen.R]

Just because you don't use the SD card slot doesn't mean another user in another profession won't rely on it heavily.

I didn’t say others don’t - but there’s pretty much one “pro” field that has constant “use” for an SD card slot: photographers. I’d be incredibly surprised if Apple put a specialised single-use port on any new portables, given that they don’t even include USB type a ports.

 

[shaunp]

As to expansion ports, they became obsolete with thunderbolt.

No they did not. I still need to plug stuff into my laptop and not all of these thing have the same connector, nor do I wish to buy and carry a load of dongles that need to be replaced with each new incarnation of laptop. This is why many professionals have ditched the MBP and have moved back to a Thinkpad. Ports, decent keyboard, matte screen and the ability to add RAM and storage later if you need to.

Don't let Apple's marketing fool you, there is still a need for ports for many users. You may not need them, but plenty of others do.
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I define 'pro user' as someone who uses their MBP for a professional use. I admit this could apply to an office worker who uses nothing but a word processor, but largely 'pro' Mac users from my experience are involved in development, IT or creative professions.

Just because you don't use the SD card slot doesn't mean another user in another profession won't rely on it heavily.

Different horses for different courses, and all that.

It's the removal of choices and assuming everyone wants an ultra-thin laptop that is only connected a power source occasionally and everything else is done wirelessly that has caused a lot of people to ditch the MBP. The OS and integration with iCloud are awesome, the hardware less awesome.

 

[leman]

Don't let Apple's marketing fool you, there is still a need for ports for many users. You may not need them, but plenty of others do.

I was specifically talking about ExpressCard...

 

[alex87f]

Ask and ye shall receive?

16" MBP with 6K display coming accord to Ming-Chi Kuo

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...-2-and-more-predicted-for-2019-video.2170368/

Those are two separate things. The former is an MBP with a larger screen (which I guess will consist in an almost bezel-less screen fitted in the current chassis), while the latter is the 6K 32" Apple Display.

 

[Marketh]

It's the removal of choices and assuming everyone wants an ultra-thin laptop that is only connected a power source occasionally and everything else is done wirelessly that has caused a lot of people to ditch the MBP. The OS and integration with iCloud are awesome, the hardware less awesome.

I agree - MacOS & iCloud are the primary reasons I've stuck with Apple all these years. Plus, despite it's flaws, I really like the current MBP design.

 

[pshufd]

My daughter has a gaming laptop with HDMI, MiniDP, USB-C, USB 3.0, and GB Ethernet. That's what I consider a nice array of ports for connecting things to. I'd be happy with the old 2008 MacBook Pro dimensions, as long as the device were reliable. I do look forward to seeing the new 16 or 16.5 MBP. I doesn't have to thin or light to sell me. It just needs to be reliable.

 

[Stephen.R]

My daughter has a gaming laptop with HDMI, MiniDP, USB-C, USB 3.0, and GB Ethernet. That's what I consider a nice array of ports for connecting things to. I'd be happy with the old 2008 MacBook Pro dimensions, as long as the device were reliable. I do look forward to seeing the new 16 or 16.5 MBP. I doesn't have to thin or light to sell me. It just needs to be reliable.

For basic consumer/"home user" use, I can sort of see the benefit to the 'built in' ports.

But that gaming laptop wouldn't work for a lot of professional uses - only a single DisplayPort out means you have to choose between HDMI roulette and sacrificing the USB-C (which is what spec?) to run a second desktop display. And then you're left with however many USB3.0 ports it has for any external data or specialised devices.

This is why I don't get the "Apple has abandoned pro users" argument - the current hardware line has issues (both in terms of design - we'd all like upgradable RAM in laptops again - and actual build/QA faults), but the overall design definitely aims more for professional use than consumer.

It's impossible to provide every single-use port/connector that everyone wants. So you pick the one that lets people adapt the machine to their own purposes.

 

[pshufd]

For basic consumer/"home user" use, I can sort of see the benefit to the 'built in' ports.

But that gaming laptop wouldn't work for a lot of professional uses - only a single DisplayPort out means you have to choose between HDMI roulette and sacrificing the USB-C (which is what spec?) to run a second desktop display. And then you're left with however many USB3.0 ports it has for any external data or specialised devices.

This is why I don't get the "Apple has abandoned pro users" argument - the current hardware line has issues (both in terms of design - we'd all like upgradable RAM in laptops again - and actual build/QA faults), but the overall design definitely aims more for professional use than consumer.

It's impossible to provide every single-use port/connector that everyone wants. So you pick the one that lets people adapt the machine to their own purposes.

I'd argue that Apple should make a MacBook Game with 3/4 inch thickness, good ventilation, lots of legacy and modern ports.

I personally like the 2014 and 2015 MacBook Pros because I didn't have to upgrade my cables. I think that USB-C is nice but two USB-3.0 ports would be nice too as would MDP. It would be nice not to have to use USB-C adapters if one wished though I like the presence of USB-C ports.

My 2014 and 2015 MBPs can run HDMI and MiniDP to two monitors or 2xMiniDP to two monitors. So just give me ports, a decent keyboard, no touchbar and working video and screen.

I'd use it for professional purposes (software development) and trading. The latter use can be quite demanding with certain, large, pro trading platforms.

 

[Cashmonee]

For basic consumer/"home user" use, I can sort of see the benefit to the 'built in' ports.

But that gaming laptop wouldn't work for a lot of professional uses - only a single DisplayPort out means you have to choose between HDMI roulette and sacrificing the USB-C (which is what spec?) to run a second desktop display. And then you're left with however many USB3.0 ports it has for any external data or specialised devices.

This is why I don't get the "Apple has abandoned pro users" argument - the current hardware line has issues (both in terms of design - we'd all like upgradable RAM in laptops again - and actual build/QA faults), but the overall design definitely aims more for professional use than consumer.

It's impossible to provide every single-use port/connector that everyone wants. So you pick the one that lets people adapt the machine to their own purposes.

Yeah the dongle argument is way overblown. I have 4 ports than can do literally anything I want in any configuration I want. I will gladly take that over an array of ports, many of which I would rarely or never use. For example a MiniDP is useless to me. Ethernet is also mostly useless for me. However, both of those are mission critical for others. That is where the beauty of 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports comes in. One port can do all of that without limiting itself to a single use, not to mention they offer so much bandwidth, you can use them for docks and hubs that do it all! The person that needs MiniDP gets it without costing me another port I might need.

 

[Stephen.R]

I'd argue that Apple should make a MacBook Game with 3/4 inch thickness, good ventilation, lots of legacy and modern ports.

Why would Apple make a Windows laptop?

My 2014 and 2015 MBPs can run HDMI and MiniDP to two monitors or 2xMiniDP to two monitors.

And if you use both MiniDP outputs, you've got zero high-speed external ports left. Like I said: doesn't really work for a whole range of "professional" settings.

The latter use can be quite demanding with certain, large, pro trading platforms.

Unless trading requires some kind of specialised hardware, it's irrelevant in terms of ports.

 

[pshufd]

Why would Apple make a Windows laptop?

And if you use both MiniDP outputs, you've got zero high-speed external ports left. Like I said: doesn't really work for a whole range of "professional" settings.

Unless trading requires some kind of specialised hardware, it's irrelevant in terms of ports.

Apple would make a macOS laptop capable of running Windows.

Just like they do today.

We're talking about what I want; which isn't necessarily the same as what there is today.

What I'd like for trading is screen real-estate. So some resolution higher than WUXGA but still reasonably viewable on the larger screen. I think that 16 GB of RAM is sufficient for now but some of my trading friends run well-equipped Mac Pro systems for trading and they run much bigger models than I do.

 

[Stephen.R]

an array of ports, many of which I would rarely or never use.

The real kicker for me is future proofing. A little TB2 dock gave new (peripheral) life to my 2011 MBP via its sole TB1 port. USB3.0, eSATA, and an additional FW800. And I could daisy chain another TB1/2 device onto that, if I needed to. This means I can reasonably use that machine to e.g. record footage from a bunch of security cameras, run an iTunes library for AppleTVs, etc using reasonably modern mass storage devices at acceptable speeds. The USB2 ports on that laptop are essentially useless for anything but a mouse or printer now.

I also don't need to over-provision a machine on the off-chance I need something more - my 2018 Mini has no dGPU and I didn't upgrade to 10GbE. I don't know that I'm likely to need 10GbE in the time I use it, but it's an option, if I decide to repurpose it as a dev/build server when I replace it with a newer workstation in a couple of years. Same goes for a GPU. Or a SAS controller. Or any number of other devices that requires / provides high I/O.
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Apple would make a macOS laptop capable of running Windows.

Just like they do today.

The market for Mac gaming is so small that the machine would effectively need to include Windows out of the box to be relevant, and then what's the point?

What I'd like for trading is screen real-estate.

A 2018 MBP13 will drive 2x 4K displays, a MBP15 will drive 4x 4K or 2x5K, and by using e.g. a TB3 to dual DP adapter, you can run pairs of displays from a single TB3/USB-C port. So you'd still have 2 ports spare even with 4 4K displays.

If that isn't enough, plug an eGPU into one of the spare TB3 ports (with a decent one it will power the laptop so you'd still have one spare), and attach more screens to that.

If you get screens with native USB-C/TB3, they'll likely include a USB hub on the back of the display too. Or you could get an adapter to break out multiple USB ports from the fourth TB3 port. Either a regular USB-C hub (which means it'll at best share 10Gb/s between the ports) or There's a StarTech one that uses TB3 upstream, and breaks it out into multiple 10 and 5 Gbps USB ports.

Your use case is exactly where TB3 shines. You want lots of displays but you also want a laptop. No laptop on earth has enough GPU power or ports built in to match a Mac Pro. It would be as thick as a Mac mini and still melt.

 

[esaelias]

initially I did not believe a redesign would come this year I thought a new intel processor and some Vega 20x, but after Dave 2d posted a video I feel apple has given them a hint...

I guess my new MacBook Pro Vega 20 goes back ahahah

 

[pshufd]

The market for Mac gaming is so small that the machine would effectively need to include Windows out of the box to be relevant, and then what's the point?

A 2018 MBP13 will drive 2x 4K displays, a MBP15 will drive 4x 4K or 2x5K, and by using e.g. a TB3 to dual DP adapter, you can run pairs of displays from a single TB3/USB-C port. So you'd still have 2 ports spare even with 4 4K displays.

If that isn't enough, plug an eGPU into one of the spare TB3 ports (with a decent one it will power the laptop so you'd still have one spare), and attach more screens to that.

If you get screens with native USB-C/TB3, they'll likely include a USB hub on the back of the display too. Or you could get an adapter to break out multiple USB ports from the fourth TB3 port. Either a regular USB-C hub (which means it'll at best share 10Gb/s between the ports) or There's a StarTech one that uses TB3 upstream, and breaks it out into multiple 10 and 5 Gbps USB ports.

Your use case is exactly where TB3 shines. You want lots of displays but you also want a laptop. No laptop on earth has enough GPU power or ports built in to match a Mac Pro. It would be as thick as a Mac mini and still melt.

The point is having the option. Just pick up a Windows license and you're good to go. Or get them for free if you have that kind of access.

I want more screen real estate for trading when I'm mobile. I'm fine with 2xQHD in the office or at home but it would be nice to have more than WUXGA at Starbucks.

 

[PatrycjaKozdra]

The 17-inch didn't really sell well I'm actually surprised they are going to be coming out with the 16-inch.

Curious how much it is going to cost.

 

[baypharm]

The 17-inch didn't really sell well I'm actually surprised they are going to be coming out with the 16-inch.

Curious how much it is going to cost.

How many did they sell?

 

[OlegOlesyaKotovRozovsky]

The 17-inch didn't really sell well I'm actually surprised they are going to be coming out with the 16-inch.

Curious how much it is going to cost.

$2999 for the base 256GB SSD model