Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Doesn't necessarily mean it has to have 2 gpus though, it will be able to have 2 cpus n 1 gpu instead, if they overhaul the whole board layout. It is very unlikely, but not impossible scenario.
it's such an improbable scenario that for allintentsandpurposes, it can be considered impossible in a casual conversation.
; )
 
There are a lot of workstations that come with two CPU sockets but only one is occupied. Sure nMP is designed to cool two GPU's, but what says it has to utilize two?

Anyway, between Mac Mini and current Mac Pro there's too big gap.. price wise at least.

My theory is that when nMP was released Apple had a short supply of these thermal units and casings, so they set the price tag high enough in order to sell all they can produce. If supply has improved, they can introduce something cheaper under Mac Pro brand.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mburkhard
it's such an improbable scenario that for allintentsandpurposes, it can be considered impossible in a casual conversation.
; )

I wouldn't completely rule it out because thunderbolt 3 is coming n external GPU solutions will be officially supported by Intel. They can be little more flexible in configurations since GPU can be had outside of box without having to release their own solution for it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: t0mat0
I wouldn't completely rule it out because thunderbolt 3 is coming n external GPU solutions will be officially supported by Intel. They can be little more flexible in configurations since GPU can be had outside of box without having to release their own solution for it.

i understand all of that.. i really do.. as well as the train of thought zarniwoop is on.
my point isn't that you are wrong.
i'm more trying to say that those types of reasoning aren't capable of overriding the design decisions which were already made.

if we see majorly different shaped boards/core.. or different physical dimensions of the shell.. that means someone at apple royally screwed up.. or, more like an entire design and engineering team of some of apple's, and the world's, top talent.. has royally screwed up.

whether or not we think they screwed up is irrelevant.. the point is that you should be able to be pretty confident they don't think they've screwed up or certainly not to the extent of redesigning the computer.

and hey, try not to read me as saying "apple has designed the perfect computer".. instead, more like "apple designed a computer which will carry through the decade".. and that computer has one cpu and two gpus
 
i understand all of that.. i really do.. as well as the train of thought zarniwoop is on.
my point isn't that you are wrong.
i'm more trying to say that those types of reasoning aren't capable of overriding the design decisions which were already made.

Yes, no worries. All good points.

I just tried to find "an excuse" for Apple to lower nMP price tag. I they sell 1GPU units (Mac Pro Starter Edition), there's an after market to sell the second double the price.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JamesPDX
i understand all of that.. i really do.. as well as the train of thought zarniwoop is on.
my point isn't that you are wrong.
i'm more trying to say that those types of reasoning aren't capable of overriding the design decisions which were already made.

if we see majorly different shaped boards/core.. or different physical dimensions of the shell.. that means someone at apple royally screwed up.. or, more like an entire design and engineering team of some of apple's, and the world's, top talent.. has royally screwed up.

whether or not we think they screwed up is irrelevant.. the point is that you should be able to be pretty confident they don't think they've screwed up or certainly not to the extent of redesigning the computer.

and hey, try not to read me as saying "apple has designed the perfect computer".. instead, more like "apple designed a computer which will carry through the decade".. and that computer has one cpu and two gpus


I wasnt talking about whole redesign of the mac pro. I don't think it is technically impossible to put 2 cpus n 1 gpu within the current design of the mac pro. Upcoming thunderbolt 3 and intel officially supporting eGPU means Apple doesnt have to fit as much GPU power as possible in that small enclosure, instead they can actually put extra CPU core there in the place of extra GPU.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JamesPDX
I wouldn't completely rule it out because thunderbolt 3 is coming n external GPU solutions will be officially supported by Intel. They can be little more flexible in configurations since GPU can be had outside of box without having to release their own solution for it.

A man who understands how things work.

Last night, for the first time outside of an Apple or Nvidia, lab I got nMP 6,1 that started life with 2 @ D300 boat anchors to cross boot from OSX to Windows with a Titan.

Finally the fast CPU wasn't being dragged into obsolescence by the crappy, low end consumer grade GPUs.

In fact, I am being overwhelmed with the desire to get a screwdriver out and pry the sluggardly little PCBs out, they are of little use now with modern cards possible. We had all hoped that Apple would offer replacements, but obviously that is never happening.

One thing that remains is for users to wrap their mind around that. There is no reason for the machine to use the original GPUs as the backbone of its existence anymore. In can still grow and become a better machine as time moves forward.

I decided that maybe a better CPU could unlock more power. I got the entry level 6,1 because, well, they're CRAZY expensive, and I'm cheap. (My car just turned 10 years old)

I looked at a chart at anand or ars that explored the CPU options. Became obvious what a horrible, limiting choice the single CPU was. It is the definition of compromise in what is supposed to be a serious machine. The 6 and 8 cores keep higher clocks much longer then the single (nose bleed expensive) 12 core.

So, make the core out of copper instead of al, and redraw the triangle. Put 2 @ 6 or 8 cores that can keep the petal to the metal longer then the 12 and a minimal GPU on third side. BINGO ! With TB3 bringing eGPU to the masses a whole new world of possibilities.

And before anyone says "redrawing triangles costs too much" I read yesterday that Apple has more money then the next two companies COMBINED (Google & someone else) parked in overseas banks that they can't bring home. $181,000,000,000.00 of profits sitting around in various accounts, much of it in Ireland. Used to make some MPs at a facility in Cork. So paying a few engineers to do some engineering there should be falling-out-of-bed easy.

It's all about how serious they are. I'm sure they know that 6,1 wasn't the run away hit they wanted, but here is their chance to fix it and show everyone they aren't just a gadget company.

As far as cloud based storage, never going to be the be-all, end all. Some movie or other recently hit torrent sites before theaters. Producers cried about losing tens of millions of $$$$$ since fat lazy Americans didn't want to leave home to watch and now didn't have to.

Imagine the conversation:

Editor: Well these TB drives are so expensive that we have decided to save a few thousand dollars and keep all your Terminator 9 files in the cloud.

Producer: I spent $500,000,000.00 to shoot it and you're too cheap to buy a few more hard drives?

Editor: Ahh, but the cloud is the future, haven't you heard? Everyone's saying it.

Producer: You're fired.

Cloud may work for YouTube editors or cereal box designers but high value productions aren't going to risk it. With data breaches happening faster then the weekly mass shootings, why risk it? I imagine some Sony execs could explain it better.
 
I wasnt talking about whole redesign of the mac pro. I don't think it is technically impossible to put 2 cpus n 1 gpu within the current design of the mac pro. Upcoming thunderbolt 3 and intel officially supporting eGPU means Apple doesnt have to fit as much GPU power as possible in that small enclosure, instead they can actually put extra CPU core there in the place of extra GPU.
i agree.. i also don't think it's technically impossible to put 2 cpus in there.

---
from our point of view, it'd be sweet to be able to buy a dual core quad instead of an 8core cpu.. i wonder how many people will buy a 12core nmp if we could just put two 6core instead.
some apple financial exec would almost certainly ruin that fun. ;)
 
Imagine the conversation:

Editor: Well these TB drives are so expensive that we have decided to save a few thousand dollars and keep all your Terminator 9 files in the cloud.

Producer: I spent $500,000,000.00 to shoot it and you're too cheap to buy a few more hard drives?

Editor: Ahh, but the cloud is the future, haven't you heard? Everyone's saying it.

Producer: You're fired.

Editor: I know the final edit was due last week, but my internet was on the blink! :p

Producer: You're fired!

Internet.png
 
it's incredibly short sighted to think that way or to base cloud usefulness off that chart.

i use 2 computers and an iPhone for work.. how often do i have to use a usb stick to move a file from desktop to laptop? never.. (or any type of manual data movements between systems for that matter)
how often to i have to save receipts/delivery slips/etc until i get to a computer to do data entry? never
how many files do i have to email to cnc/laser/waterjet? none
how many different versions/threads of design collaboration do i need to track? zero

i mean, all 3 of my devices act as a single unit as far as file management goes.. backups to the cloud as well as local backups on the different computers are constantly being created.. the amount of files and copies of said files i need to manage on any given project has dropped drastically.. the amount of time i spend copying and importing files has went from 'often' to 'never'..

to say something like- "Once you use the network instead of your local resources there will never be a satisfactory performance"
..is only saying "my workflow will not benefit from being on a network"..
because i've moved to network and performance has noticeably improved.. moreover, a bunch of boring crap has been eliminated from my flow.. which in itself, is a huge improvement.

---
idk.. you come across that you're not speaking from experience.. fine, whatever.
but when someone has experience with what you're knocking and they're saying basically opposite of what you are, you should at least listen.. at least a little bit.

Please don't go off topic again with the cloud thing. No independent professional working with major labels / well-financed projects would upload their session files to the cloud anyways. And I personally want full control on my files, meaning no one another than me is allowed to have access to them. As soon as I up them to cloud, I'm putting all my trust in their hands. If you value data privacy, don't upload them to the cloud...

I think apple should launch their own line of proprietary thunderbolt enclosures / raid systems, which would also bring prices of 3rd party suppliers down.
 
Please don't go off topic again with the cloud thing. No independent professional working with major labels / well-financed projects would upload their session files to the cloud anyways. And I personally want full control on my files, meaning no one another than me is allowed to have access to them. As soon as I up them to cloud, I'm putting all my trust in their hands. If you value data privacy, don't upload them to the cloud...

I think apple should launch their own line of proprietary thunderbolt enclosures / raid systems, which would also bring prices of 3rd party suppliers down.

Good news! Blackmagic Design is already doing that. As long as the new Mac Pro supports Thunderbolt, you can grab a MultiDock 2 and content creators will be very happy. And if new Mac Pro keeps dual-ethernet, you can still connect an NAS or a Dante system/Waves Grid and another machine for something like VSL or VEP5, etc. So even hanging a Mini off of the nMP would work, although I'd love to know if a RenderBoxx could alleviate a lot of our worries that we are all expressing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Melodist
Good news! Blackmagic Design is already doing that. As long as the new Mac Pro supports Thunderbolt, you can grab a MultiDock 2 and content creators will be very happy. And if new Mac Pro keeps dual-ethernet, you can still connect an NAS or a Dante system/Waves Grid and another machine for something like VSL or VEP5, etc. So even hanging a Mini off of the nMP would work, although I'd love to know if a RenderBoxx could alleviate a lot of our worries that we are all expressing.

The Blackmagic MultiDock is amazing, thanks a bunch, for a quick setup :)

I used to have a drobo raid storage but I've switched to m-discs recently which allows for a storage room / library which I prefer above everything else, just like storing digital tape of a Sony 3348.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JamesPDX
Please don't go off topic again with the cloud thing. No independent professional working with major labels / well-financed projects would upload their session files to the cloud anyways.

Cloud collaboration is certainly being pushed by the big media developers, and there is of course the big number crunching being done off-site by render farms.

https://www.avid.com/US/products/media-composer-cloud
https://www.avid.com/US/solutions/byindustry/protoolsearlyaccess.html
http://www.autodesk.com/360-cloud
http://www.aframe.com/
https://www.sonymcs.com/
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: flat five
Please don't go off topic again with the cloud thing. No independent professional working with major labels / well-financed projects would upload their session files to the cloud anyways. And I personally want full control on my files, meaning no one another than me is allowed to have access to them. As soon as I up them to cloud, I'm putting all my trust in their hands. If you value data privacy, don't upload them to the cloud...

heh.. "don't go o.t. with..." followed by a paragraph of you doing exactly that?
i like your style

i just think you'd be better off if stating your thoughts as your own.. instead of trying to lump in with others by saying things like "no independent professional ..."

do you really not think i could show you a case study of a working pro using the cloud in their process?

who, exactly, are all of these big time software companies making these cloud based subscription services for? people working without labels and under-financed projects? that doesn't sound like a good business plan to me.

also.. let's say your data is really as valuable as you're making it out to be.. where is it more at risk?.. where will it most likely be stolen from first?
A) dropbox
B) a dvd that you have in your storage room/library ("closet") at your house

?

if you don't feel comfortable with it then fine.. i'm not knocking that. at all.
i'm knocking you for being the voice of the pros.


I used to have a drobo raid storage but I've switched to m-discs recently which allows for a storage room / library which I prefer above everything else, just like storing digital tape of a Sony 3348.

wait.what.
weren't you just, a few pages back, whining that external storage is a hidden tax on nmp buyers? but you own(ed) a drobo with your 4.1?.. and a separate storage library consisting of m-discs?

and weren't you also complaining about speed of internet and/or wifi being a deal breaker for you yet you're burning crap to dvds?

man, i'd like to think you're on the level but i'm having a difficult time doing so.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JamesPDX
more of a funfact: (though these files are huge chunks of gigantic media corps property)

netflix is entirely cloud based (and has been so for a couple years).
they account for over 1/3 total internet traffic during prime hours in n.america.
 
heh.. "don't go o.t. with..." followed by a paragraph of you doing exactly that?
i like your style

i just think you'd be better off if stating your thoughts as your own.. instead of trying to lump in with others by saying things like "no independent professional ..."

do you really not think i could show you a case study of a working pro using the cloud in their process?

who, exactly, are all of these big time software companies making these cloud based subscription services for? people working without labels and under-financed projects? that doesn't sound like a good business plan to me.

also.. let's say your data is really as valuable as you're making it out to be.. where is it more at risk?.. where will it most likely be stolen from first?
A) dropbox
B) a dvd that you have in your storage room/library ("closet") at your house

?

if you don't feel comfortable with it then fine.. i'm not knocking that. at all.
i'm knocking you for being the voice of the pros.
.

He is correct. If you are working on a project for any of the big studios, record labels etc you are forbidden from storing anything in a cloud or processing on a cloud.

For starters you have to get your facility certified by security inspectors to meet certain requirements. Everything has to be onsite or integral to your network. The inspectors may return over the course of the project to check for violations.

Certification is a two step process.

Step one is for the actual facility. That means access via keycards, cameras, sometimes security guards, background checks, accounting checks, sometimes physical separation of their project from the rest of the facility. In some extreme cases you may not even be allowed to work in rooms with windows. Sometimes no phones, due to cameras. Any camera on a phone, laptop, tablet etc may be blocked with a tamperproof seal. Some companies reserve the right to remotely wipe your phone, tablet or laptop in an emergency.

Step two is the network and computers. All workstations need to have their USB and I/O ports disabled for external storage devices. You can't plug in anything other than a keyboard, tablet, mouse, monitor etc. External drives are often forbidden since someone could just walk off with one. Sometimes the project in quesion has to live on a separate server. Separate WIFI for artist laptops, phones etc. No internet access from workstations.

No cloud storage or processing. No Amazon Cloud, no drop box, nothing. Everything has to be contained inside of your network or be sub compartmented within your network. No transmission of project data over WIFI. All hard data lines.

You will also be signing an NDA the size of a phonebook, guaranteeing that your life won't be worth spit if you violate any of the terms and the project leaks. If something goes wrong it won't be the cops that show up, but the feds.
 
Last edited:
@Hank Carter: are you talking about film studios or recording studios? Because I don't remember it being like that in the latter.

Anyway, that is a very different issue from cloud computing. As I mentioned in my previous post, that is being embraced and pushed heavily by the media developers.
 
Last edited:
@Hank Carter: that is the first time I have heard of that? Which studios are you talking about, film studios or recording studios?


Film studios. Security has gotten very tight in recent years, especially on the big tentpole movies.
Even some commercials and promotional material is under incredible security these days.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: JamesPDX
Probably both. -But I would think that the Avid|Interplay stuff probably has security features built-in. Still, your innerwebs would have to be pretty swift to make use of it. -On your new Mac Pro. (see how I stayed on-topic?)
 
  • Like
Reactions: filmak
more of a funfact: (though these files are huge chunks of gigantic media corps property)

netflix is entirely cloud based (and has been so for a couple years).
they account for over 1/3 total internet traffic during prime hours in n.america.

Regarding the :apple:Mac Pro, I would totally make a 2nd backup of everything to Amazon Glacier or Apple or whatever if my upload speeds would support it. I had to ditch my cloud backup after a year because I realized that there would be no way of ever catching up until Google Fiber or better comes to the 'hood. And that's an inconvenient truth: Buying new drives and rotating them out and about is just more feasible.
 
Last edited:
it's too far gone for that.. the computer is designed for 2gpus

It would cause no problems or damage to leave one GPU slot empty.

Lots of workstations and servers have two CPU sockets, and the base configuration one has one socket filled.


If they'd introduced 1 GPU version, their marketing needs to differentiate that this is the perfect machine for your illustration needs with iPad Pro. And 2 GPU version is a must have machine for video editors etc.

... and a pretty simple little daughtercard could connect the 16 unused PCIe 3.0 lanes to four or more PCIe SSDs!
 
heh.. "don't go o.t. with..." followed by a paragraph of you doing exactly that?
i like your style

i just think you'd be better off if stating your thoughts as your own.. instead of trying to lump in with others by saying things like "no independent professional ..."

do you really not think i could show you a case study of a working pro using the cloud in their process?

who, exactly, are all of these big time software companies making these cloud based subscription services for? people working without labels and under-financed projects? that doesn't sound like a good business plan to me.

also.. let's say your data is really as valuable as you're making it out to be.. where is it more at risk?.. where will it most likely be stolen from first?
A) dropbox
B) a dvd that you have in your storage room/library ("closet") at your house

?

if you don't feel comfortable with it then fine.. i'm not knocking that. at all.
i'm knocking you for being the voice of the pros.




wait.what.
weren't you just, a few pages back, whining that external storage is a hidden tax on nmp buyers? but you own(ed) a drobo with your 4.1?.. and a separate storage library consisting of m-discs?

and weren't you also complaining about speed of internet and/or wifi being a deal breaker for you yet you're burning crap to dvds?

man, i'd like to think you're on the level but i'm having a difficult time doing so.

George Lucas used a satellite based cloud network for the entire Star Wars prequel trilogy for viewing 3D models, animations and daily rushes from his ranch.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.