Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[Infinite Vortex]

I guess all of you who plays games on bootcamp or macos that are based on x86 will be pissed , or you think rosetta 2 will be enough?!

For me it's actually neither.

The big thing for me is when Apple expects to remove Rosetta2 support as that is the time that Apple designates that developers should have changed all of their code to ARM. Without it developers can rely on the universal app situation like last time and take their time to make the change.

For some of my software, like Adobe, I'm not inclined to go the subscription route as my workflows and needs doesn't support the cost of the subscription. Previously I could pick and choose this upgrade here and that upgrade there. Worked well. But not it's full price 100% of the time which my needs doesn't support. So I'm having to do something else.

In the meantime, if I'm feeling that I'm having to pay twice, firstly to get out of High Sierra (32-bit) and then secondly ARM, the case for my dropping Apple altogether becomes very real. I have a very specific need of Apple, that need can be serviced by whatever bottom laptop they have. For everything else I'm better off committing to Windows/Android. Going to Windows 10 today with my current hardware will cost me $0 as everything I have and use already came cross platform… even Adobe CS6.

Sooooooo I have no idea what to do and nothing for the time being, with a temporary switch to Windows on my current hardware, makes the most sense. As there will no longer be one hardware that will do it all (like what we have now) my choices, and the basis of those choice, will alter significantly moving forward.

 

[Freida]

Rosetta will be enough as its not emulated the same way as Intel was. They said that its recompiled at installation so one would assume that after that there isn't much performance hit. We shall see though

I guess all of you who plays games on bootcamp or macos that are based on x86 will be pissed , or you think rosetta 2 will be enough?!

 

[ssong]

totally missed that Kuo speculated on potential performance increases of 50-100% + Mark Gurman believes the first ARM Macs to ship with 12 cores...

 

[John90976]

With how good ARM Macs are starting to look, I hope Apple updates the design of the iMac to match that of the first ARM model so I can get both and have a beautiful dual monitor setup, except one is suited for bootcamp and gaming whilst the other outgrows it in performance and possibilities everyday. That arrangement sounds fun, before, as a casual gamer, I drop the hot intel garbage and offload the noise and heat to some server farm that will be streaming games to my ARM mac and iPad Pro in a few years if we don't get some kind of massive windows overhaul + bootcamp support.

TLDR the future looks brighter than last week regardless of the upcoming refreshed/redesigned intel iMac.

 

[Kjs100]

totally missed that Kuo speculated on potential performance increases of 50-100% + Mark Gurman believes the first ARM Macs to ship with 12 cores...

Yes the ARM iMacs could be quite something, which for me is going to make buying the impending 27" intel iMac very difficult, even though that's the screen size I want, unless I can persuade myself to hold on another 5 months and see if the 24" suffices. It should be easy to sell on a 24" ARM for minimal loss when the bigger iMac ARM arrives.

I expect the 27" (or bigger) ARM iMac, maybe next year, to come with mini LED, face ID and 120hz. Beyond that, whatever Apple have said in the past about touch control in a desktop, and as this video alludes to for the MacBook, within the next 5 years I'm expecting touch control on an iMac, probably with a folding hinge so it lays almost flat. Some people don't like the idea of a desktop doubling up as a big ipad, but I think a fold down touchscreen would appeal to many buyers.

 

[jonblatho]

I just realized something. Check the macOS Big Sur preview page.

Look at the three iMac mockups they’ve put on there. Specifically, look at the menu bar. I’ll include screenshots here:

In all three, the menu bar is markedly taller than the other Macs shown, with added vertical padding around the menu bar contents. I’m using the beta on my iMac right now. It doesn’t look like this; the menu bar is the same height it’s always been. There are three of these mockups, so it appears that it isn’t a fluke, or a Photoshop mockup gone wrong.

New in macOS Big Sur is also NSView.safeAreaLayoutGuide, a macOS equivalent of UIView.safeAreaLayoutGuide, which was introduced in iOS 11 to help apps work around the rounded display corners of the iPhone X (along with subsequent iPhones and the iPad Pros). As of now, there’s no documentation for the former.

I have doubts that the 24” iMac will have touch support, but it’s sure looking near certain that at least one future Mac’s display corners won’t be squared off.

 

[ducknalddon]

How many of you use a Bootcamp?

I use it for work (programming on Windows).

 

[Voyageur]

I guess all of you who plays games on bootcamp or macos that are based on x86 will be pissed , or you think rosetta 2 will be enough?!

Rosetta 2 will work with macOS native x86 games, but Windows x86 code will not run on Apple Silicon.

Rosetta will be enough as its not emulated the same way as Intel was. They said that its recompiled at installation so one would assume that after that there isn't much performance hit. We shall see though

This principle may introduce additional problems. Yes, it will probably work when buying / downloading individual distributions or buying through Mac Appstore, but what about the Steam library, which installs the games itself? Origin? GOG? Well Epic - do not care with them, they work closely with Apple and control their content and make their edits. Blizzard too. But others? Most likely not everyone will work. And if there are fixes, then they will have to wait a very long time. And without these platforms, which already have a meager choice for macOS, we can forget about gaming. (Unless someone is civilization and Tombrider enough, but I personally think it's not serious.)

 

[Akela_A]

I just realized something. Check the macOS Big Sur preview page.

Look at the three iMac mockups they’ve put on there. Specifically, look at the menu bar. I’ll include screenshots here:

View attachment 928626View attachment 928628View attachment 928627

In all three, the menu bar is markedly taller than the other Macs shown, with added vertical padding around the menu bar contents. I’m using the beta on my iMac right now. It doesn’t look like this; the menu bar is the same height it’s always been. There are three of these mockups, so it appears that it isn’t a fluke, or a Photoshop mockup gone wrong.

New in macOS Big Sur is also NSView.safeAreaLayoutGuide, a macOS equivalent of UIView.safeAreaLayoutGuide, which was introduced in iOS 11 to help apps work around the rounded display corners of the iPhone X (along with subsequent iPhones and the iPad Pros). As of now, there’s no documentation for the former.

I have doubts that the 24” iMac will have touch support, but it’s sure looking near certain that at least one future Mac’s display corners won’t be squared off.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1276627910883934209

The question of whether Macs will get touch screens can be debated - what I don't think can't is whether they'll get screens with rounded corners like the iPad Pro or iPhone. Everything about the new interface just seams designed for it.

 

[ChineseBots]

I have a sneaky feeling that Apple would make their next iMac support apple pencil with touchscreen function disabled.

 

[Homy]

One good news is that OpenGL and OpenCL will still be functioning on AS so non-Metal games should still work.

• OpenGL is deprecated, but is available on Apple silicon.
• OpenCL is deprecated, but is available on Apple silicon when targeting the GPU. The OpenCL CPU device is not available to arm64 apps.

Porting Your macOS Apps to Apple Silicon | Apple Developer Documentation

Create a version of your macOS app that runs on both Apple silicon and Intel-based Mac computers.

developer.apple.com

 

[ssong]

I have a sneaky feeling that Apple would make their next iMac support apple pencil with touchscreen function disabled.

That could materialise as a new Magic Trackpad with pencil support

 

[Freida]

To those who keep asking or wanting touch support on Macs - guys, UNLESS you can lay the screen flat on a surface or on very low angle touch support makes ZERO sense. Its so unergonomic that you get fatigue and pain within minutes.

I've noticed that people often ask for features without even thinking about the practicality. So yeah, touch would be awesome on 27" iMac but the product would essentially need to change drastically to be useful. In fact, it would need to be redesigned in a similar way like MS studio which solve that issue quite well.

Also, Apple is heavily improving Sidecar so I would think that is a more elegant solution for the meantime. Why?

Well, think about average setup we have at home. So you have iMac in front of you, keyboard, mouse (and wacom tablet) in front of it. (I used Wacom as those who want touch screen on iMac are those that draw or do something like that so they already use Wacom. Touch support just is a poor option to use it as general control!).

So, you fire up Zbrush, PS etc. and the first thing you do is you remove all the clutter in front of the imac THEN you bend the screen to be like MS Studio and then you start working. Sure, this can work but is this elegant? Is this Apple like experience? I doubt that.

So, touch support is not ready unless Apple redesigns the product from scratch. (iMac)
For Macbook Pro - They could do it in a way that the hinge will allow the computer to be open 180degrees (completely flat) and you would have screen orientation swap option. Again though, not elegant and not Apple like.

12.9" iPad Pro is much better solution than having MBP be a compromise etc. And for iMac - well, I think those that really need the extra screen it would be better for Apple to introduce bigger iPad (iPad studio ) than to implement all these things into and iMac that most people won't use or need.

I certainly don't want touch support on an iMac even though I would love to have that massive screen to work with. It would just introduce so many compromises etc. that I would rather have 2 products (iMac + big ipad) then have one AiO device for all.

And one last note - I have even tiny smudges on my screen and hate people who touch my screen so I can't even imagine how it would drive me crazy to use 27" as touch screen. I would have to clean it all the time. Hahahhahahaha

Smudges on iPad don't bother me but Mac = different story

I have a sneaky feeling that Apple would make their next iMac support apple pencil with touchscreen function disabled.

 

[CWallace]

To those who keep asking or wanting touch support on Macs - guys, UNLESS you can lay the screen flat on a surface or on very low angle touch support makes ZERO sense. Its so unergonomic that you get fatigue and pain within minutes.

I agree touch makes little sense on a desktop (especially a large AIO like the iMac), but it could eventually come to the laptops.

 

[oosamon]

How many of you use a Bootcamp?

I use Parallels. It's essential for the software I use for work. If the iMac refreshes with Intel, I may purchase one more. If not, I'll switch to a WinPC all-in-one and rely on my iPad/iPhone/MBP for personal use.

 

[Jamacfer]

I agree touch makes little sense on a desktop (especially a large AIO like the iMac), but it could eventually come to the laptops.

I do agree: absolutely zero interest in touch screen on desktops. I also don't think that MacBooks will have touch interface because Apple wants to differentiate the two market segments (tablets and laptops). By the way I can't wait for the new ARM iMac to be introduced.

 

[ssong]

I could somewhat picture a mini Pencil with support for iPhone and trackpads... that would be something... might not need full touch support but would be useful for signatures etc.

 

[iPadified]

totally missed that Kuo speculated on potential performance increases of 50-100% + Mark Gurman believes the first ARM Macs to ship with 12 cores...

He makes a very good case. I strongly think this is what we will see later this autumn. I wonder if the GPU need to so strong with all hardware encoded functions in AS like neural engine and encoders. These will offload the GPU tremendously for specific tasks. Does not help 4k gaming though.
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I do agree: absolutely zero interest in touch screen on desktops. I also don't think that MacBooks will have touch interface because Apple wants to differentiate the two market segments (tablets and laptops). By the way I can't wait for the new ARM iMac to be introduced.

Artist using Wacom for their work is the ones that should have a say here as they are the target market. There are not so few people in the iPad forum discussing larger iPads (even 27 inch) because they think the canvas of the 12.9 is not large enough for their work. A 24 inch iMac would work well assuming a good repositioning mechanism of the screen.

I could use pencil support for some tasks I do like producing lecture videos. The 12.9 is too cramped to write on unless I zoom. The latter is not good for learning because the overview is lost. A 24 inch for brainstorming sessions with pencil, yeah!

 

[Jamacfer]

He makes a very good case. I strongly think this is what we will see later this autumn. I wonder if the GPU need to so strong with all hardware encoded functions in AS like neural engine and encoders. These will offload the GPU tremendously for specific tasks. Does not help 4k gaming though.
[automerge]1593408785[/automerge]

Artist using Wacom for their work is the ones that should have a say here as they are the target market. There are not so few people in the iPad forum discussing larger iPads (even 27 inch) because they think the canvas of the 12.9 is not large enough for their work. A 24 inch iMac would work well assuming a good repositioning mechanism of the screen.

I could use pencil support for some tasks I do like producing lecture videos. The 12.9 is too cramped to write on unless I zoom. The latter is not good for learning because the overview is lost. A 24 inch for brainstorming sessions with pencil, yeah!

But what would be the "price"? Technical complications, higher price, different way of use and user interface etc...for a niche market? Moreover the iMac is the generalist computer "for the rest of us" so I would exclude (also for the reasons I explained in my previous post) that Apple will produce an iMac with touch interface.

 

[ernstinvisiblelubitsch]

I’ve been borrowing my artist friend’s Wacom mobile studio recently to edit videos and being able to seamlessly switch to the stylus while using photoshop or masking stuff in after effects has been really cool and useful.

But for them, the problem with both the Surface Studio and the iPad Pro is the stylus detection isn’t as good as a Wacom product, so I kind of doubt we’ll ever see widespread adoption of a big iPad by the professional digital artist community unless Apple figures out a stylus as good as Wacom’s. maybe an improved stylus would be a selling point of a giant iPad Mac.

 

[DrRadon]

I’ve been borrowing my artist friend’s Wacom mobile studio recently to edit videos and being able to seamlessly switch to the stylus while using photoshop or masking stuff in after effects has been really cool and useful.

But for them, the problem with both the Surface Studio and the iPad Pro is the stylus detection isn’t as good as a Wacom product, so I kind of doubt we’ll ever see widespread adoption of a big iPad by the professional digital artist community unless Apple figures out a stylus as good as Wacom’s. maybe an improved stylus would be a selling point of a giant iPad Mac.

I would assume that with CC for ARM Macs it's only going to be a question of time till the full CC is available for at least iPad Pro. It's literally only a question of how long it takes for Adobe to convert their big stack of applications to ARM and the iPad Pro hardware being powerful enough (with it arguably already might be for a decent amount of CC use cases).
Lightroom on iPad is glorious already. The only limitation would be 13 inch as of now, with the surface obviously being bigger.

 

[iPadified]

But what would be the "price"? Technical complications, higher price, different way of use and user interface etc...for a niche market? Moreover the iMac is the generalist computer "for the rest of us" so I would exclude (also for the reasons I explained in my previous post) that Apple will produce an iMac with touch interface.

I completely agree that it is niche market, but we did not talk about markets and price as far as I know. Talking about niche markets: AAA-gaming on Mac, fraction people needing a 5700XT, 10/20 Core Comet lake or bootcamp are other examples. Pencil (not general touch) is just another niche in a long row of niches in my opinion.

 

[askunk]

What about 3D designers? The dubdub video was saying "we use macs to build our products"... I am not that sure. Given the direction they've taken so far, I am pretty sure they designed most of their products on PCs.

Niche or not, there are some user categories that you shouldn't forget about when you build production tools.

 

[ssong]

What about 3D designers? The dubdub video was saying "we use macs to build our products"... I am not that sure. Given the direction they've taken so far, I am pretty sure they designed most of their products on PCs.

Niche or not, there are some user categories that you shouldn't forget about when you build production tools.

They probably use the fully specd Mac Pros did see that a couple session vids had a Mac Pro running the stuff

 

[Kjs100]

AS iMacs will likely be lighter and it would be well within Apple's capabilities to hinge them down either flat or slightly tilted from a desk. Im sure I would enjoy a touchscreen iMac even just to browse the web on. I prefer swiping on an iPad than using a mouse for web browsing. Moving my keyboard and mouse out of the way wouldnt fret me at all. There seems to be people who argue vehemently against touchscreens and try to ricidule the idea and those who want a touchscreen. People who say you would get gorilla arm or your arm would be exhausted using a touchscreen should speak for themselves. I see the differences between an iMac and an iPad getting smaller and smaller and in time I think a significant proprotion of people would want to use their iMac just like their iPad for some tasks.