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Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?
- Thread starter krazzix
- Start date
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I know it doesn't mean anything and we have learned that the hard way the past few months, but just saying… shipping estimates for the 27" are now 8-9 weeks (except base model, still 2-3 weeks).
We're definitely going to get a family of CPUs based around an A14 core.
With A14, A14x and probably AS14(M?) variants.
So Apple can deploy software to multiple hardware environments in lock step.
I'm looking forward to the A14. If the A13 is faster eg. 20% per core vs A12...then the A14 maybe be 20% more and therefore 40% faster per core. That's frightening stuff if you're Intel. And just how many cores for multi? 8 high power plus 4 low power?
That gives a mac mini (please no jokes, the Mini has suffered enough....) and the entry Macbooks a massive lift and the iMac 24 inch too.
Azrael.
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You are right but here is a thought. Seeing that A14 chip will go to iPhone, iPad and Macs it wouldn't be too crazy to use the first event for both (or all).
Unlikely I know but the pattern could change now. In fact, I feel that we won't be getting Macs before the A chip is announced in the iPhone. We know that Apple will be now on yearly updates so once the new pattern sets in we will be able to know for sure what the schedule might be like. Personally I feel that iMac before holiday season + iPad + iPhone makes sense but then march event will be for what?
Or it could be that September iPhone/AWatch
October iMac etc.
March iPad Pro
Damn, even I am confused now
Surely the development of A chip will be pretty much simultaneous for both iDevices and Macs.
The success of the iPhone and iPad have authored the success of the 'A' chip.
And now that it has pretty much caught Intel (not bad for a 7 watt chip with passive cooling...) it's time to, in Craig's words, 'The A12z is what we can do when we're not even trying....'
If anything sounds ominous for Intel....that does.
John Scaramoosh...scaramoosh...si...is the Guv'nor of Apple Silicon.
Azrael.
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September....bleeping hell...guys....guys...September?
*tongue hanging out.
Azrael.
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God? I could use his help right now...
Azrael.
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I have decided to go hackintosh and wait another year to see how things go. It will allow me to save money now, put some more aside for a good Pro miniLED AS machine and still keep working till then with a fast machine that will cover all Win features for the time being.
After all, the message from Apple was clear. You need Win as well? Get a PC.
Things have changed a lot: building a hackintosh with the right hardware is easy as pie (I studied everything in two days and have already set the USB drive to install Catalina.
I know it will never be 100% safe, but the pros of this solution for my case are so many, I am ready to take the risks of a few kernel panics.
I will wait for the Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs and decide whether to get a cheap 3rd gen or go for the 4th. GPU will be of course AMD but I trust Navi2 will be interesting
PCI gen4 motherboard and 2x 1TB NVMe drives... it should range around 1.100/1.300£ + VAT... amazing.
Askunk,
Can't fault your reasoning. And this Hack' will be supported for a good few years as well!
Other than holding off for Radeon Big Navi 2....and Ryzen 4 (which should put the boot into Intel...)
You can get a £1300 'PC' Hack that will obliterate anything Apple offers short of paying £5-10k.
And yeah. Get 'this year's' specs.
Azrael.
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Cheers, pldelisle!!!!
*thumbs up.
Azrael.
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yeah know...
....for all dis a waiting....
They better include the new design on teh bon voyage mr. monty intel imac.
Azrael.
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...the problem with 2nd hand is the high prices of iMac kit. At least on eBay.
And if it's not in Apple Care...and falls over. You're out a chunk of money for a new one.
And yes, you have to narrow the search for SSD and Vega.
Azrael.
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I see that Askunk is a seasoned campaigner who can speak the dark runes of Apple's marketing and 'policy.'
Apple will 'say' 2 years. And happily chain saw Intel buyers now...in 7 months from the time the 1st AS Mac ships.
Eg. When asked at Apple H.Q, Craig Fed' and his wing man...said, and with a straight face, mind...'If you need a new Mac buy now...'
Right after Tim Apple had said new Intel Macs were coming...
Deary me...I like Craig...however, c'mon Eileen....
Azrael.
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If the new iMac has a 'twisty' stand I may have to have Craig Fed's babies...
Better still, I'll retract that...as Apple would do that on purpose....just for me. :O
Azrael.
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If the Mac Mini had it's former £499 price? I'd probably cave and do this.
As your point about the back up server/2nd machine is sound.
Azrael.
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Yeah. Apple ride you HARD on the BTO carousel.
Chaffing on the £££ saddle.
Azrael.
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No.
Or Apple.
Azrael.
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It's interesting that you used the words 'Transitioning' and 'butt' in teh same sentence.
*smiles.
I'll let others enjoy the moment. Lest to say, Apple will come out of this £££ either way gauging your wallet before and after the transition.
'Why so cynical...?' In Heath Ledge Joker voice.
Azrael.
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I don't know.
I was going to check this website that takes track of leakers and thani realised i did not know it and it would not change much for me anyway.
I am thinking about just going pc and saving 50%... or getting a refurbished iMac Pro for 4500€ (but that is also painful... with it being3 years old).
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No. But it's the news we have, and plenty have been right around WWDC so it's not that they know nothing.
Geeze, Doc'. For the love of god, don't get the iMac Overprice Pro. The over pro. 3 year's old.
You're clearly a clever chap, you could build a Hack for £1300 that will bury it and then I'm guessing you save money because you have a monitor lying around? And if you don't? A BenQ 32 incher will set you £400.
That's £1700 for a Hack that will bury the any iMac launched this year.
Don't make me post the specs...
Azrael.
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So, this could be actually good news for RDNA2.
If we have to wait that long and the other tweet says more likely Oct+ then I see no reason Apple not putting RDNA2 in it. Not only it would help with thermals but it would also be worth the wait and I think most people would be happy.
If Apple gives us some crap spec update and we have to wait till Oct+ then I think a lot of people will be upset.
So, this better be worth it. RDNA2 + redesign + ram door + silent
Freida,
Yes. The common sense rational says that the longer 'this' goes on (and on...and on...I've forgotten my name...)
There is less reason for Apple not to include a customised RDNA2 that fits the new cooling in the new design for Intel iMac.
Apple will have to go some to equal the mediocrity that £1750 27 inch iMac brings (5k monitor aside.)
Azrael.
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Amen, Dr.
Azrael.
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Yeah. BTO option for September shipping. So if you want a new iMac you can go go go!!!
Or if you want a BTO RDNA2? Hug that wait button...
Azrael.
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Yeah. Think...it's like you say.
5500
5600
5700.
With XT BTO.
The 5300 (...composes self...to stop laughing....) is probably for the 21 incher.
Azrael.
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July makes sense. It has to be imminent. If it doesn't drop this month?
September. Silver lining? Closer to RDNA2 as custome BTO.
Azrael.
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I'll come and say hello
Will bring you Tim Horton's hot chocolate and poutine
Where's my hot chocolate?
(And Big Marshmallows as 'chaser...')Tim Horton's hot chocolate (and poutine?) I don't know either of those things.
I'll have a guess at the 1st...it's branded 'real deal' hot choco?
No bad thing, that...
Azrael.
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It's a SoC future.
If anyone can bury Intel and the gpu vendors with performance power efficiency?
It's Apple.
I'm highly critical of Apple in many areas (eg. mac desktop...wonder why....) but in their CPUs?
They've been world class. No back chat.
Triple AAA execution and executing the opposition.
Mac OS. Multithreaded. Apple Silicon. Co-processors. In abundance. So the overall effect will be greater 'smoothness' than a monolithic dinosaur from Intel. That's WHY the A12z punches above it's weight in 'experience' for the user. I think the iPad is a better user experience than the Mac from this viewpoint. AS silicon will bring mac to ipad parity. And we can't rule out Mac 'touch' now that Big Sir has 'finger' sliders...
Apple's iGPU? Buries Intel IG. I'd be confident of that. AS running Metal? Board your windows up, Intel...
Azrael.
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It would be a sand bag release to make AS 24 inch iMac ARM look better? I wouldn't put it past them. We've had side grade gpu imacs before now.
A custom down volted 95 cpu design fora ten core Intel in that iPad enclosure (being the caveat) makes sense. That and a down clocked RDNA1 5700XT/M will last alot longer against that star destroyer...than my 2012 zombie iMac.
Azrael.
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If the end product justifies the means...so be it.
Or...in Vader speak...
'Search you feelings...You know...it's true...'
Azrael.
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We sure do.
Azrael.
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The Mac Pro got a new 'Intel' design. Knowing full well, after reaming, *cough, I mean charging....customers 40$$£££k that the Mac Pro will be outperformed by an AS15 a year later. (Anybody really believe that transition is going to take two years? I'd expect it to be all over 7 months after the 1st AS ships.)
It makes perfect sense to get that iPad iMac out and test the design for the AS silicon. It also gives more head room for the AS silicon to deliver the 'gift' to Intel cpus.
As for the performance of AS silicon? Expect it to bury Intel in single core. At least parity in multicore, which, with more cores for AS silicon means it will out perform those 'great' 6 core Mac Minis and Intel iMac 6 cores.
...and...? Just for Gusping...the Mac Mini will get actually decent iGPU performance that will make the intEl iG look ancient (which it is, folks...)
Where Apple have Intel by the curlies? Apple thread their software. Apple design custom hardware cpu/gpus with coprocessors that will synchronise performance.
So whilst Intel may have a particular bent for raw performance...the AS silicon will greater overall greater performance through efficiency ie you won't get software lock by the cpu being boat anchored to a given process.
Ergo. 3(!) 4k steams in Final Cut as per Craig's demo. Can the Mac Mini do that? I dunno. Can it?
Azrael.
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Good question. And the answer to that is hopefully the RDNA2 BTO.
All the ducks. In a row.
Azrael.
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No 5700XT for the iMac Pro. It's no progress over Vega 64. Not in compute, anyways...
5500XT for the entry. Maybe. It's ok vs the 580X. But it's the 5700XT we want to finally give the 5k it's 'homecoming.'
Expect 5600 for the middle for top tier.
5700 for the top tier. XT or RDNA2 for BTO. Sept' shipping on the latter.
Azrael.
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I have no doubt the AS Macs are going to be kick az special.
Having a platform which suddenly detonates 1 million iPad apps and all the iphone apps onto it?
This is just the beginning...
Means I can run procreate on iMac. (*giggles hedonistically....*)
It's just a matter of time before they release the Mac Tough hybrid...
...and didja all hear those iPhone running full cream Mac OS rumours?
Azrael.
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Thermal management makes sense. Add in new cooling. Yes please.
If it is slightly lower clock to get a chip in there with greater overall performance, I'd be ok with that.
I don't see bleeding edge hot chips in there. They'll have to under volt them or something.
Azrael.
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I think they'll iPad the intel design with the new Arm chips in mind. Actually. This could mean they'll introduce a 27 inch iMac with intel cpu with iPad design and a 24 inch iMac with ARM design.
Otherwise, it's going to look odd.
This means they'll have to be creative with how they implement the Intel cpus. An under volt, down clock lower watt cpu perhaps and gpus that are simarly castrated....I mean...efficiencied for the new ARM enclosure.
There's no reason it can't be 'both.'
The low end has ARM. The high end has Intel.
And perhaps when the A15 (on an accelerated schedule...?) goes into a 27 inch iMac ARM by fall next year 2021.
Case change already implemented for Intel.
Azrael.
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Yup.
or is it?
Looks like Parallels are going to be picking up the slack... (See their website...they seem excited by the 'ARM' move...)
Which means, if emulation for virtualisation takes a 35% hit. Apple Silicon is going for a 50%-100% improvement over Intel. That being the case. The lower range runs Intel software faster. (Parallels providing the 'V' in virtualisation...)
:OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
Azrael.
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Me too.
However, We're only a £599-£799 PC away from something that performs alot better than a £1750 iMac.
No reason we can't have both. I understand Bootcamp is good from a foot print point of view. But I have to say running a 2004 'old game' took a year off my iMac's shelf life. The enclosure couldn't cope. And my GPU fried.
I hope the new iMac has better cooling. I'm a thinking that having a dual 'PC' and 'Mac' set up is probably best.
Azrael.
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Bootcamp.
It's a secret or dirty secret indulgence for me.
Based off my experience, I'd buy a separate PC for playing games as the iMac's cooling simply isn't up to it. Not even on a 2004 game.
I don't know what cooling they are using in there (a small fan?
) but it's not a Nocturne cooler? Apple's move to AS will make bootcamp all but irrelevant.
You get millions of iphone and iPad apps. So that's the casual game conquered.
Which will encourage more people to buy AS Macs...
...and then? The triple AAA titles will follow.
on Metal. And custom GPUs that will surprise many.
Even if Apple dont' make a 'gaming' PC, the osmosis that follows this epic transition....will bring the devs that like £££ to the platform...
We scoffed at the iPod as a gaming platform...when it had one or two piddling games...then the iPhone and 3rd party apps happened.
Cue? Gold rush.
Azrael.
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I loved my 24 inch more so than my 27 inch.
The 27's quad HQ display. 'Meh' to me. It's done nothing but stretch my eyes.
Always felt cheated that they removed the 24 incher instead of dropping it down to entry model size. Low blow, Apple...low blow...
I'm hoping we get a knock on effect of the 27 going to 30/32 as a result...
Azrael.
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Yes, we all know that if you work in 3D you earn 10x compared to 2D designers...
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I don't understand how Apple could introduce a 27" intel iMac first and later a 24" AS iMac. It would be quite confusing.
Plus, it would be the first time that a mac model gets updated in two different time slots.
Are we really sure about this? (please, don't answer. Some in this forum can't get rhetorical questions...
Navi3 cards came up in Big Sur's code... are them for intel macs or will they be used by AS macs as well? Navi3 is well ahead in time. We're talking late next year.
Couldn't it be that the new intel macs in the next two years will be only the IMP and MP? I do agree with all of you on the likeliness of seeing a new intel 27" but then I would expect the 24" to follow aside. (or vice versa)
The iMac is iconic... I doubt it will be the last or one of the last to get an AS.
The most urgent to update would be the IMP... and I would expect it to sport an intel for now.
Navi 3.
Seems like AMD are getting ready to do the old 'one two' punch on Nvidia by Accelerating the Navi 3...?
As for iMac Pro. Hmm. Will they keep it around with AS silicon with the A15 going into it and the Mac Pro?
There's no reason the 24 inch ARM and the 27 inch Intel can't sit side by side with the same design. Otherwise it will look kinda strange. 'Buy this old thing...vs buy this sexy new thing...' Mind you...Apple kept the trash(!) can around like a bad stink...and it was really old...and the old mini...and the old iMac Pro....and the old iMac from 2019....and the old Polaris GPus....and the old thermal volcano that is x86 intel...and...
Azrael.
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9! @Azrael9 left
*Lightning Rod.*
'Shazam' as they say...
Azrael.
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He's here.
As for 'not exploding', that's a guy thing. Too much premature specification...
Azrael.
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Did we not know?
It was I, Azrael...who...
(*Pokes at the 'walking dead' iMac that allows booting into bootcamp but not Mac OS....the shame....the ignominy.... And yes, much though to the dark side I've given...)
Azrael.
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*waves.
Azrael.
Yes.
The waiting continues.
Rock and a hard place.
July iMac imminent?
They could have announced at WWDC. But this would have taken away from the AS announcement. Plus it would have probably shipped in July anyhow.
So why not just release in July. The delay suggests this 'new' design.
Any further delay to September suggests they're waiting for the RDNA1+ or RDNA2 for BTO and/or both.
It would give the last Intel iMac revision more longevity and go out on a high note. As there have been previous few of them.
I'll give the iMac Pro a point. Though it was expensive...even at launch.
Azrael.
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The good news being that we're well past it just being a spec bump at this point, right?
....crickets chirping.
Right? *(Don't be so certain, Azrael...look at how they treated the Mac Mini and Ipad....they got the increment treatment...and they gave the 13 inch Macbook Pro panda borders...bezels...oil tankers could sink in those...)
Azrael.
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That is very interesting observation. And to be honest, the recent bump in delay is crazy. We are now in mid September for 27" delivery. Thats crazy talk - also, those that said that they are fed up with waiting and will order the current gen are kinda stuck anyway and have to wait so they might as well wait for the refresh.
This is going to be one long summer wait
I don't know about others but I would love to see the new AS in action and out already. Part of me kinda hopes that we get 32" iMac with AS
Wouldn't that be something
if Apple doesn't redesign the 27" and will do spec bump (even if good one) then I might just wait and get the redesigned 24" AS one. Keep it for a year and then sell it and get the bigger version when its out.
I somehow feel that the current design just won't do anymore. The bezels are just too huge
This is going to be one long summer wait
I don't know about others but I would love to see the new AS in action and out already. Part of me kinda hopes that we get 32" iMac with AS
Wouldn't that be something
if Apple doesn't redesign the 27" and will do spec bump (even if good one) then I might just wait and get the redesigned 24" AS one. Keep it for a year and then sell it and get the bigger version when its out.
I somehow feel that the current design just won't do anymore. The bezels are just too huge
in the future we should just call the supply of Apple silicon A.s.s.
I gave up on BootCamp gaming years ago (and I only play two games - Diablo III and Overwatch) for a dedicated Windows Gaming PC. Snagged an Alienware on sale for under $1500 with a 6-core i7 (so already faster than my 2017 iMac's i7) and a Nvidia 1070GTX. Started with just a 256GB SSD and 16GB of RAM and it was enough, but just upgraded to a 1TB SSD and 32GB of RAM so now I am good for effectively eternity.
Before that, I upgraded iMac every 1 to 2 years for the better GPU (which would still be behind my 1070 GTX) and which cost me at least $1500 in depreciation each time (even though I did pretty well on re-sale). And the great thing is my 2017 iMac is still more than enough for everything I throw at it under macOS and Windows productivity apps via VM and will likely remain so for years to come, so I can wait for Apple Silicon to really bed itself in in terms of hardware and software and then move wholesale over.
Before that, I upgraded iMac every 1 to 2 years for the better GPU (which would still be behind my 1070 GTX) and which cost me at least $1500 in depreciation each time (even though I did pretty well on re-sale). And the great thing is my 2017 iMac is still more than enough for everything I throw at it under macOS and Windows productivity apps via VM and will likely remain so for years to come, so I can wait for Apple Silicon to really bed itself in in terms of hardware and software and then move wholesale over.
Sounds civilised enough.
I can't fault your logic.
Going by that logic...if I bought a £1750-£1950 (incoming) iMac and a £1300 PC, I'd still be cheaper than the current 'loaded' iMac at £3560 inc VAT. (I could put the remaining £260 to a nice 4k 32 inch monitor for the PC.)
It's what I'm thinking.
Edit. As for the iMac's power. It's a sound general production machine from video editing to business to image editing. No question there. But it still behooves Apple to give it performance relative to the price bracket it's in. I think the last frontier for the iMac to conquer (relative to the tower it has supplanted...in desktop demographics...) is 3D. There has been understanding customer disenchantment with their gpu 'upgrades' and standard gpus. But I think with RDAN1/RDNA+1 and RDNA2 there is a chance to finally put this issue to bed. And give the iMac the power to throw around 3d preview windows in Lightwave3D, Maya, Blender etc.
And from that point of view, the A12z demo on a 'Mac Mini' was very promising indeed with it's 10 million shaded performance (on a SoC that will prove very humble relative to the AS14 that cometh for intel...)
So yes. Even a 'year old' RDNA1 will offer compelling performance. Add that to a 10 core cpu option and bigger standard ram and ssd as standard? And you have?
A compelling iMac upgrade. It might even be worth what Apple charges for it.
You did the right thing boosting Windows to 32 gigs of ram. I hear Windows needs it. And it gives plenty of head room for thirsty games. As does 1TB of SDD. (Games a huge installs these days...)
Azrael.
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Hackintosh is getting tempting...
Could not afford this, but still, competing with high speced MacPro power for 1/5 of the price. The build process scares me a bit, but i asume most of the scary parts are setting up the water cooling.
Could not afford this, but still, competing with high speced MacPro power for 1/5 of the price. The build process scares me a bit, but i asume most of the scary parts are setting up the water cooling.
That's what has surprised me the most about the AS in Mac Mini demo!!! Right now i'd happily take that mac mini. 3 freaking 4k streams !!!!
Hello The Lord of Apple,
You know, for all the 'doubting' Thomas out there that have questioned the power of the A12z (you just have to try the A12x in person....on an iPad...even if you don't trust the flexy/bendy frame...) The power is amazing. The holistic OS, App and user experience is incredible, fast, responsive and super smooth. It makes the standard Mac OS seem somewhat 'behind' the curve by comparison. The primary 'hands on' touch experience augmented by the Apple Pencil is something very special indeed.
In short, the A12x ship handles graphics and single core cpu tasks with ease. Why wouldn't Mac owners want that?
Marry multithreaded Mac OS to a multi dimensional co-processing (lots of them...for certain 'software thread' hugging tasks...) and you spread the work load. Rather than one monolithic chip whizzing around trying to catch all the threads...with inefficiency. Nothing more irritating on Mac OS when the overall user experience tanks/lags/gets locked because the cpu itself is locked on a single task and bogged down by it.
That's where Big Sur (Big Sir!) and the AS14 come in.
Imagine bringing that multi-task dexterity and intensity to 4k stream rendering whilst keeping the overall user experience smooth as butter (as Jobs would say...) And I think...
That's something the 'Mac' (Mini, iMac and Macbooks could greatly benefit from...) especially the ones with inferior Ig and so-so dGPUs. The AS14 will probably up the cpu core count from '6' (Intel) to 8 (AS) plus 4 more 'low power' ones ....coupled with greatly improved iGPU. The one thing about Apple cpus. Their single core performance and gpu performance have kicked az.
It's been world class. Bringing that to the Mac Mini (even at current prices, *frowns...) would greatly increase their value relative to their mediocre value now. ie. A Mac Mini with decent graphics? Yes please. A Mac Mini with 3x 4k streams? Yes please.
Azrael.
Hello Dr Radon
It IS tempting, isn't it?
Check out Snazzy Labs building out a sub £2k AMD tower that smashed the Mac Pro. He says it's easier than ever! And that's with a 'turn key' build from Corsair.
You seem like a clever bloke, so I'm sure you could put one together. I'm considering it. Strongly.
I've contributed to Hackintosh thread here at Macrumours (plenty of compatible builds on there...) with links to Snazzy, Morganaut and AMD Open Core (who will check your build component compatibility...I've posted there also...)
Yeah. It's 'scary' but alot of things are 1st time. I remember when email scared me...
I, personally, wouldn't trust water cooling. I spoke to a lad in an Apple store who'd done his own pc intel gaming build and did water...and got it all over his mobo. BzzzT! Had to buy new components. Just go with an air cooler like the Nocturne which I hear is strong at cooling and quiet. Nothing worse than fan noise. (I used to have an Athlon based PC back when...very noisy...)
The 1/5th of the price thing is very appealing. And, apparently, even the updates etc will work on the latest Hacks.
Check out CyberPower. They do good pc builds at affordable prices. You can put together a PC build (12 core... with 5700XT) for around £1250.
...and a 6 core AMD with eg. 580 for around £799?
Something like that.
I wish Apple would leverage prices in Mac customer's favour like this instead of their back pockets. They don't have to be this cheap...but a £6k tower says they've lost the plot. Along with no desktop at under £1k with monitor, kb or mouse or dGPU.
Azrael.
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Good question.
It suggests something is up. ...this July...?
And if it isn't that then a September event?
But...the wait...
C'mon Apple...
I knew I should have built that Hack' in March when my iMac rig went down...
Azrael.
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It most certainly doesn't have to be £10k. Ouch. You can blow away the entry Mac Pro config' for 1/5th of the price.
The cyber power systems £1250 build I've kept an eye on has 12 cores, a 5700XT...so that would be...yes...a 1/5th.
Azrael.
16 gpus. This gives a good idea of the state of the union gpu wise before the coming storm of Big Navi 2 or Ampere.
...and...5700XT compared to it's nearest competitors.
The 5700XT at very nearly almost twice the performance at 'twice the cost' of the 580 is the sweet spot for Mac owners.
Interesting that the gigabyte gpu is mentioned. I've heard good things about it 5700xt wise. And there is a gigabyte mobo/gpu hack' build in the Macrumours Hackintosh thread...for those interested...(*waves at DrRadon...)
Either way, a 5700XT (even down clocked...) should offer a substantial boost for iMac fans.
Azrael.