Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[Azrael9]

It seems to me Apple's activities in the past months/year have put the writing on the wall.
Not knowing anything about TSMC's manufacturing capabilities, it seems that Apple's traditional release pattern of an new iPhone Ann SoC in Sept/Oct, followed by an iPad AnnX (or Z) release the following March is a significant pointer to the time it takes for Apple/TSMC to get the necessary number of SoCs with the additional GPU cores ready for mass distribution.

Therefore it would seem reasonable for a lower-GPU AS laptop be shipped this year, with the higher-rated (mid-range 24") iMac etc chips to follow early the next year.

And what did Apple do earlier in 2020?
They released a 13" MBP where the Intel CPU's heatsink isn't even connected to or placed near the airflow of the fan cooling system.... It all looks like an afterthought.
That seems like an enormous clue as to what the first AS laptop is going to be - with maybe a reduced-bezel 14" screen attached...
And an AS 27" iMac follow-up to be released 12 months later than the 24" version.

Good post, Paul.

Azrael.

What I am worried about, is that desktops take a back seat (again...) to MacBooks. I.e. Apple will put a spruced up laptop AS SoC into the iMac, rather than go balls to the wall with a proper SoC and a FAT fan. This will allow them to produce a lovely THIN desktop, that absolutely no one f**king cares about (except those who say their iMac faces inwards in the room. Sorry, receptionists...).

No need to worry. It's academic. Even Intel prioritises the laptop market now. How much does an Intel desktop chip outperform a laptop by? 20%? Desktops aren't the overwhelming force they once were. Laptops are no longer the lame dogs they used to be. The gap has shrunk.

The 'lowest' estimation puts Apple 50% faster than a Intel desktop. Which means that even if you take away 20% off for an Apple 'laptop' the Apple laptop buries the Intel desktop. The Apple desktop really puts the boot in.

If some of the optimisations are 100% faster? Desktop or Laptop Apples will dry ream the Intel.

The future is smaller. Lighter. Thinner. SoC'er.

Using an extreme extreme example, the iPad A12z buries my G4 400mhz tower.

AS is going to humble some tower boxes in more svelt form factors.

It's performance vs power. Intel don't have the same software, OS, compile stack with custom build hardware for that software.

An AS Mac Mini that has 8 cores and iGPU is going to prove the point. The revolution with a Macbook Air style AS14 laptop is going to raise some eyebrows.

Azrael.
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There are some real PC power houses coming out like this one:

Lenovo ThinkStation P620 Announced

Today, Lenovo announced the release of the first ever workstation powered by AMD’s brand-new Ryzen Threadripper PRO, the Lenovo ThinkStation P620.

www.storagereview.com

But they seem to be a return to the dinasaur past of big boxes and noisy fans. There was a time when a box like that would have me drooling. Raw power is nice, but not everything, especially these days that very capable machines come in such small quiet packages.

Honking 64 core towers at £4500 upwards have their place.

But the mammals are coming. And that's where AS is going.

As you say...raw power...isn't everything.

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

The Lenovo is nice.

But it's missing something crucial for my mental health :

 

[Azrael9]

The Lenovo is nice.

But it's missing something crucial for my mental health :



View attachment 934111

Lenovo just doesn't have 'The Sex.'

MacOS. The 'joy ball' of OSes.

Azrael.

 

[CWallace]

That is not the same as the Pro brand will go away. If iMac Pro name is tied to xeon, ECC and workstation GPU, then it will disappear but so will the Intel iMac. iPad has a Pro segment that differs from the rest of the iPads and I expect that will apply to future AS iMac/iMac Pro as well.

iMac (AS): 24 inch passively cooled; low price and reasonable performance for the masses and offices ($1000-$3000 depending on config)
iMac Pro (AS): 27 or 32 inch, actively cooled, for those who need the sustained performance and can pay for it ($2500-$5000 depending on config.

If we can get a 27-32" Apple Silicon iMac Pro for $2500, I'm okay with that. My worry is Apple will spec it closer to the $5000 side of the equation (and I'll pay it if I have to, but it will be overkill for what I use my iMac for).

The Apple rumour mongers got took behind the cow shed and given the bullet, you mean?

I think more that most of them played into the hype train and were more interested in posting "scoops" ASAP then actually investigating the information they were being given.

I think consumer AS laptop is the most likely candidate for this year...That doesn't rule out the AS14 powered iMac 24. Both on roughly the same guts. But it seems that it may be given the early 2021.

Apple likes to focus on one release at the time. So it will be Intel iMac. Then Mac ARM laptop. With the iPhone 12 inbetween. If we're lucky...we may get a proper iPad update with the A14 as well...in the fall.

Sounds logical to me. If the ~24" iMac rumors are based on actual product and not just speculation, then that implies it's ready for October along with the 13.3" MacBook Pro. If it is just speculation, then 2021 is probably more likely.

Tim also stressed Intel Mac products this year. eg. The 27 inch iMac. It's the only Mac product we're waiting on, update wise. And design wise. And the timing may be related to the custom Navi 2 part. See link.

Apple could just be waiting until October to announce whatever Macs (Intel and/or AS) they intend to release this year because that is when Big Sur is ready. Which would mean you can't get an Intel Mac now because parts are not available and/or factories are not available to assemble said parts. And we should therefore see shipping dates start to shorten in the coming weeks as either constraint is relieved.

I don't see any more Intel releases for Mac.

I'm pretty confident the Mac Pro will hang around for the "Intel-only" crowd, but you're going to pay to stay in that game. But the commercial interests who need it can afford it, so...

Ewwww, no. Leave touch screens away from Macs, especially desktop Macs.

I believe touch is coming to the Apple Silicon laptops, but it is not going to come to the desktops.

 

[Azrael9]

I believe touch is coming to the Apple Silicon laptops, but it is not going to come to the desktops.

Destiny calls.

The Mac line is the only line that doesn't have touch.

That 'barrier' is clearly being removed with the redesign of Big Sur...and the move to AS.

We can now...dare to imagine new products...as I'm sure Apple is...

...and they probably have a 'finger' and an Apple Pencil involved...

...that could involved laptop, inbetweens or desktop 'studio' form factors.

Laptop vs Desktop. It's an old paradigm. I wouldn't put it past Apple to develop a new one.

eg. 24 sized 'iPad' that docks onto a stand...or docked onto an easel dock for drawing with Apple Pencil.

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

We can now...dare to imagine new products...as I'm sure Apple is...

Apple certainly has an internal road map of products for the next 10 years.

They have something we don‘t even know about yet, pretty sure.

One thing in business is to never comes out with a product which is not “on its time”. Delivering a freaking nice product ahead of its generation is killing it and never good for a business.

 

[Azrael9]

If we can get a 27-32" Apple Silicon iMac Pro for $2500, I'm okay with that.

The Holy Grail sweet spot.

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

Intel has 'something big' to share on September 2nd - VideoCardz.com

Intel Tiger Lake launches on September 2nd? Intel has sent out an invitation to the press for the upcoming event. The event is likely to announce (or maybe even release) the 11th Gen Core series known as Tiger Lake. Intel has first showcased its Tiger Lake processors at CES earlier this year...

videocardz.com

Too late, Luther...too late.

Azrael.

 

[ksodell]

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Apple aren't going to do 'cheap.'

They used to do 'affordable' though...in Mac terms.

Azrael.
[/QUOTE]

Point well taken. Excuse my misuse of the language - cheap does NOT mean affordable! I remember the more 'affordable' days of Apple. Those truly were good days for users. Not as good for CEO Tim and his bank account, though. Times change, CEO's, and corporate visions change. We are just along for the ride.

 

[Azrael9]

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Apple aren't going to do 'cheap.'

They used to do 'affordable' though...in Mac terms.

Azrael.

Point well taken. Excuse my misuse of the language - cheap does NOT mean affordable! I remember the more 'affordable' days of Apple. Those truly were good days for users. Not as good for CEO Tim and his bank account, though. Times change, CEO's, and corporate visions change. We are just along for the ride.
[/QUOTE]

Well said, ksodell.

My main gripe is the pricing of Mac desktops. Historic pricing under Jobs was much better. Price rises under Cook have been relentless.

We may get a price rise for any new iMac. We'll see.

That said, we do have £350 iPads. We do have an affordable £400 iPhone (with an A13 chip no less...) So it's not all bad. But the upswing of pricing the for bigger screen iPad irked me in particular. And the £1750 for out of date 2019. Or the Crazy £6k for the modest Mac Pro specs (low end gpu indeed...) or the value king Mac Mini with no graphics, no kb or mouse at £750 and £1050...or the show stopping £1050 pile of junk duo iMac...

I'd like to see a price trim with the move to Mac ARM.

Steve Jobs. Fair price for a WOW product guy.
Cook. Insert your own sentence. I'll be polite and call him the 'custodian' of Job's legacy.

Azrael.

 

[ksodell]

If we can get a 27-32" Apple Silicon iMac Pro for $2500, I'm okay with that. My worry is Apple will spec it closer to the $5000 side of the equation (and I'll pay it if I have to, but it will be overkill for what I use my iMac for).

US$2500? Heck, yeah! (as he opens his wallet). But $5000 is a mood-killer. I hope Tim $. Cook doesn't jack the price up so high that it makes people have to make REALLY hard decisions, especially during this difficult time in our countries. I hope he chooses to make a LOT of money charging more affordable prices, instead of A LOT BUT LESS money with expensive AS-based systems.

I don't need a 'new and improved' that badly, and I wonder how many others out there in iMac-land do. Yes, those of you true Professionals that use your Mac to earn money do! But many of us don't push our current systems to the limits. Hence, I'm still plugging along on this mid-2011 27incher. I put in an SSD, for Fusion's sake, so it's pretty zippy for my needs.

But I SOOOOOOOO want to be on Big Sur/AS-based system. I think I've earned it (he says, nodding). WE ALL HAVE - IT'S BEEN TOO LONG!

 

[pldelisle]

But I SOOOOOOOO want to be on Big Sur

You can already install it.

 

[SamGabbay]

Well, I think I'm going to head out guys. I need a new iMac and I just cannot wait any longer. It'll probably be a huge mistake, but hey, I need a new machine.

Sincerely,

Too early.

Edit: 8-9 Weeks delivery for a new iMac? I'll pass.

 

[pldelisle]

Well, I think I'm going to head out guys. I need a new iMac and I just cannot wait any longer. It'll probably be a huge mistake, but hey, I need a new machine.

Sincerely,

Too early.

Edit: 8-9 Weeks delivery for a new iMac? I'll pass.

Get a refurb. You’ll get it a lot sooner. Many iMac Pro Refurb on Apple (Canada).

 

[SamGabbay]

Get a refurb. You’ll get it a lot sooner. Many iMac Pro Refurb on Apple (Canada).

My business rep offered to extend the 14 day return policy to 30 days just in event of a new iMac release during that time. Can't do that if I go refurbished.

Sam

 

[pldelisle]

My business rep offered to extend the 14 day return policy to 30 days just in event of a new iMac release during that time. Can't do that if I go refurbished.

Sam

Well guess you have to wait then

 

[Freida]

It's just Intel announcing that they will be dropping Apple.
(sorry, couldn't resist)

Intel has 'something big' to share on September 2nd - VideoCardz.com

Intel Tiger Lake launches on September 2nd? Intel has sent out an invitation to the press for the upcoming event. The event is likely to announce (or maybe even release) the 11th Gen Core series known as Tiger Lake. Intel has first showcased its Tiger Lake processors at CES earlier this year...

videocardz.com

Too late, Luther...too late.

Azrael.

 

[DrRadon]

So with all the software updates hitting just now there still is hope for next week.

 

[ksodell]

You can already install it.

I know. I plan to install the beta on my MBP. But I am more covetous of the "AS-based system" part of my sentence that you quoted above than I am of the operating system. New and improved OS's come out every year (ok, except Catalina). But AS will move us exponentially forward in the hardware arena. The system won't be 'outdated' a couple or three years after purchase. It'll still be eating Intel's lunch. And I'll gladly hold onto it for years.

 

[The_Lord_of_Apple]

Raw power is nice, but not everything, especially these days that very capable machines come in such small quiet packages.

yes, I saw this yesterday and was drooling. I have to say AMD has really given it to Intel as has Apple. Raw power isn't everything but a new iMac with 10 core iMac, 5700XT, 128GB Ram, 4TB SSD and 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports will fit me like a glove.

I did find this article interesting, https://mondaynote.com/apple-silicon-the-passing-of-wintel-79a5ef66ad2b

Windows has been on ARM but all the other manufacturers have been on x86. Will Apple's move cause a shift in the windows world too? The next couple of years is going to be very interesting.

 

[DQ11]

Intel's Core micro-architecture is in many ways now reflective of their Netburst micro-architecture in the Pentium 4 family. They were "stuck" on both for a decade and had to run each generation harder (and therefore hotter) to get meaningful (even measurable) performance improvements. Process improvements have allowed them to do that without requiring liquid cooling (though the air cooling has become more and more ridiculously large just as it did on Netburst), but in the end they have hit a wall and until they move to an all-new micro-architecture, they're going to be hobbled.

Apple Silicon, on the other hand, still has plenty of performance growth in it. It was designed to need only passive cooling, so they can run them far harder (and yes, hotter) with air cooling which will allow for significant performance increases over a long period of time. I also believe Apple Silicon's micro-architecture will scale much more effectively in terms of power requirements (so less cooling needed at higher clock speeds / greater core counts) and that will allow them to match, and then eventually, overtake Intel - at least in terms of "general computing" tasks which is what Apple is focusing on.

Hmmm.. Good to know. I don't know a ton about the ins and outs of the chips, but It's exciting to think of the possibilities of what it could do for Logic Pro X.

 

[ryanbates]

My business rep offered to extend the 14 day return policy to 30 days just in event of a new iMac release during that time. Can't do that if I go refurbished.

Sam

People have been getting their shipments much earlier than expected. You could always order and cancel it if a new iMac is announced soon or return it.

The refurb store has been restocking every week if you can’t wait. You would have a 14 day return policy though.

 

[DrRadon]

People have been getting their shipments much earlier than expected. You could always order and cancel it if a new iMac is announced soon or return it.

It´s a wack idea, but i am thinking that maybe Apple dos not want people to order these old machines. Why else build a "virtual wait wall" around them shipping in the usual two weeks?
Thats very un-Apple since they like to sell us old stuff at a premium.
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Shipping time for the low and mid tier base level 27 inch is back down to 29th of july - 7th of august here in Germany.

I think intel is the bottleneck. Because the only iMac on deep backorder now is the one with then 9th gen Intel i5 while the other two still rock 8th gen. The only difference between these three machines besides the CPU would be the GPU. So that could also be it.

The iMac stills not back in Apple Stores though. Maybe that will happen in the coming two weeks IF there is no new model released in that timeframe.

 

[Azrael9]

Well, I think I'm going to head out guys. I need a new iMac and I just cannot wait any longer. It'll probably be a huge mistake, but hey, I need a new machine.

Sincerely,

Too early.

Edit: 8-9 Weeks delivery for a new iMac? I'll pass.

Do you own your own business?

Thought about leasing?

There are 2nd hand Macs to be had on eBay. Like buying a used car (AHHHHHHHH NO....I USED A CAR ANALOGY!!!!), you have to do your homework but bargains are there. After you have looked at least 100 of them.

There are 0% (two year) UK APPLE deals. So, yes...it would be a 2019 iMac but you could spread the cost over two years.

There are also refurbs.

The iMac Pro is around £3500 if you look hard enough on eBay.

There are some UK companies offering 3 year buy/lease options with a final payment at the end of the 3 year period. Which means you could get the iMac Pro for £130 a month.

If you have a really good friend...or know anyone with a spare 'back up' Mac you could borrow or give them a handful of cash for until the new iMac ships.

There is also the Hackintosh route. (Which I'm seriously considering if this wait goes on for much longer.) Snazzylabs and many YouTube videos on how much 'easier' it is now.) And you'll pay far less for it than a fully loaded iMac.

So there are options.

Apple are making us wait for their latest 'option.' (Even for their current iMac...8-9 weeks?)

What's going on, Apple..?

Azrael.
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PS. Another option to explore is a dual platform workflow. My patience has finally been tested with the release of the Mac Pro and it's 'welll....yurrr...' price. Having software that works on Mac and PC. eg. In my case I'm buying a PC Tower (which I can Hack'...and PC...) as well as getting the 'new' iMac when it FINALLY happens.
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It´s a wack idea, but i am thinking that maybe Apple dos not want people to order these old machines. Why else build a "virtual wait wall" around them shipping in the usual two weeks?
Thats very un-Apple since they like to sell us old stuff at a premium.
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Shipping time for the low and mid tier base level 27 inch is back down to 29th of july - 7th of august here in Germany.

I think intel is the bottleneck. Because the only iMac on deep backorder now is the one with then 9th gen Intel i5 while the other two still rock 8th gen. The only difference between these three machines besides the CPU would be the GPU. So that could also be it.

The iMac stills not back in Apple Stores though. Maybe that will happen in the coming two weeks IF there is no new model released in that timeframe.

Maybe something could happen in two weeks. Say...by the 28th of July?

If these shipping times are bouncing around so dramatically. It usually indicates the imminent arrival of a new model. And usually last minute rumours indicating that.

September and RDNA2 (would be my preference if it meant getting access to that gpu tech'...) is painful to wait for.

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

US$2500? Heck, yeah! (as he opens his wallet). But $5000 is a mood-killer. I hope Tim $. Cook doesn't jack the price up so high that it makes people have to make REALLY hard decisions, especially during this difficult time in our countries. I hope he chooses to make a LOT of money charging more affordable prices, instead of A LOT BUT LESS money with expensive AS-based systems.

I don't need a 'new and improved' that badly, and I wonder how many others out there in iMac-land do. Yes, those of you true Professionals that use your Mac to earn money do! But many of us don't push our current systems to the limits. Hence, I'm still plugging along on this mid-2011 27incher. I put in an SSD, for Fusion's sake, so it's pretty zippy for my needs.

But I SOOOOOOOO want to be on Big Sur/AS-based system. I think I've earned it (he says, nodding). WE ALL HAVE - IT'S BEEN TOO LONG!

Ksodell,

mid-2011? It's doing well. At least it's working so you can wait it out that 'bit' longer. Which is a prudent thing to do. The new model could be quite substantial. But waiting sucks. As always.

My 2012 bit the dust in March of this year. 7.3 years of use. Only the last year did I push the gpu harder (in bootcamp on some really old game) and that was the end.

Cook's Apple could really expand the Mac market with more affordable ARM based Macs. But he's been really predictable with his pricing under his tenure. That's being polite.

'True Pros.' I think you, me, anybody is a 'true pro' if they buy a Mac with our hard earned money and use it however we wish. If someone says they are an artist? They're an artist. (Just a personal aside...I don't think of Apple marketing videos with 'Apple Anointed' creative spokepeople any more an artist than any other pro, hobby, casual, Hollywood storyboarder...or Mac user or a child that 'likes art' that draws on an iPad or with crayons and a sheet of paper...) Whether we push performance to its limits is pretty academic (it wasn't in my case, as my iMac fell over...when I pushed it to its 'limits...' meh..crap cooling...) we deserve the best relative value of 'the now.'

Performance is like a good pop song. It is a celebration of 'now.' Ergo. What you should expect is relative to what is available now with the caveat of what is imminent. So when we take our hard earned money and pay Apple...we expect the 'best' not something that is 3 years old...or having last years tech' in it. Apple doesn't treat iPhone customers in this way. Yet Mac owners have to pay 3 or 4 times more for the 'same' performance (depending on example of Mac vs PC...)

Regards.

Azrael.
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I know. I plan to install the beta on my MBP. But I am more covetous of the "AS-based system" part of my sentence that you quoted above than I am of the operating system. New and improved OS's come out every year (ok, except Catalina). But AS will move us exponentially forward in the hardware arena. The system won't be 'outdated' a couple or three years after purchase. It'll still be eating Intel's lunch. And I'll gladly hold onto it for years.

You could always install it on an external SSD.

Azrael.
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yes, I saw this yesterday and was drooling. I have to say AMD has really given it to Intel as has Apple. Raw power isn't everything but a new iMac with 10 core iMac, 5700XT, 128GB Ram, 4TB SSD and 4 Thunderbolt 3 ports will fit me like a glove.

I did find this article interesting, https://mondaynote.com/apple-silicon-the-passing-of-wintel-79a5ef66ad2b

Windows has been on ARM but all the other manufacturers have been on x86. Will Apple's move cause a shift in the windows world too? The next couple of years is going to be very interesting.

AS. It's going to hit like a meteor impact.

Azrael.