Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[Azrael9]

This is Tim Cook's Apple though. They will leave features out to tempt people to pay more.

It would behoove him to price the transition 'to go' so build that Mac ARM user base as quickly as possible.

If so, Mac sales could get to 5, 6, 7+ million.

Holding current prices would be 'ok' (they really are that bit too pricey...I wouldn't class them as affordable...not for the 'rest of us...') if you're giving 50-100% more perf'.

But to see an entry iMac 24 ARM going for £999? That's would be far better. Instead of eating the profits from doing their own chips...get back to offering the Mac customer a better deal.

Azrael.

 

[jetjaguar]

I doubt they will lower prices

 

[pldelisle]

I doubt they will lower prices

No they won‘t lower prices.

These 5-7 years of R&D must pay back. They will find something else to leverage the profits in the future to create another next big thing. This is how Apple works since the return of Steve Jobs.

 

[Cassandle]

But to see an entry iMac 24 ARM going for £999? That's would be far better. Instead of eating the profits from doing their own chips...get back to offering the Mac customer a better deal.

There is no way that any new iMac will cost £999. That's only slightly more expensive than the 12.9 iPP - no way Apple prices a desktop there. A MacBook Air yes, but a desktop AIO? No chance.

It might be the case that they used to cost this, but even if Apple decided to stop squeezing profit margins so much then there's inflation. £999 today is worth less than £999 was 10-20 years ago.
[automerge]1594920932[/automerge]

I doubt they will lower prices

Agreed. If anything they're likely to go up.

Let's not forget the first generation of AS Macs will be sold alongside Intel Macs. They won't charge say £1500 for a base Intel iMac and less than that or the same for an AS iMac that is faster, has better GPU and presumably has all sorts of extras that are only available to iMac because of AS (such as FaceID).

 

[DrRadon]

Lots of wet dreams here still. It's a ongoing thing.
That video also is full of fanboyisems. Totally ignoring how bad MacOS and iOS are performing this year. Its actually laughable software compared to what Apple was known for. A different chip won't fix the mess they go there. A chip won't fix them selling iPads with 2GB of RAM and even messing up memorymanagment on simple Apple native Apps like Safari and Podcasts at the same time.

There is no guarantee this will be a success out of the gate, there is no guarantee this will be a success ten years from now. It might start out great and swindle down, it might start out pretty messy and get better. We don't know any of that. It's just silly to believe that Apple can't do no wrong. They are doing plenty of wrong, they are just doing it at great margins because they know how to do marketing and it obviously is not "all bad" in their system.

 

[Azrael9]

There is no way that any new iMac will cost £999. That's only slightly more expensive than the 12.9 iPP - no way Apple prices a desktop there. A MacBook Air yes, but a desktop AIO? No chance.

It might be the case that they used to cost this, but even if Apple decided to stop squeezing profit margins so much then there's inflation. £999 today is worth less than £999 was 10-20 years ago.
[automerge]1594920932[/automerge]

Agreed. If anything they're likely to go up.

Let's not forget the first generation of AS Macs will be sold alongside Intel Macs. They won't charge say £1500 for a base Intel iMac and less than that or the same for an AS iMac that is faster, has better GPU and presumably has all sorts of extras that are only available to iMac because of AS (such as FaceID).

Some rumours have pointed to the iMac 24 ARM as being more affordable. The base Intel iMac is junk at £1050. So, if they can't beat that with an ARM chip that is £200 cheaper than the intel equivalent...which would peg that price at £850 - a 4k display. A 1st tier 4k iMac. £1250 - £200. Would put the entry Mac 24 ARM at £1050. The price of the original Bondi iMac. Give or take.

Inflation has been static for wages as billionaires and banks get richer. But Apple have certainly jacked up their prices.

If inflation wasn't being artificially held down the world economy would probably collapse.

Technology is supposed to trickle down. Not that you'd know it with the Mac Mini. Apple nearly doubled its price. Its graphics are dreadful. A ripe contender and beneficiary for any Mac ARM transition.

So yes. Macs are more expensive. I'd call it Tim Cook 'inflation.' I just don't buy into their marketing. Or their profit margins.

But PCs seem to hold their buying value. You can get a twelve core PC for £1250.

'Inflation.' Strangely you can buy more PC Tower for your money these days...*points to the Mac Tower.

We can only summise what Apple will do with prices based upon past behaviour and Tim Cook history.

I'll concede I'm not hopeful for price cuts. But if they hold their prices they can at least point to better performance to justify their prices.

Azrael.

 

[pldelisle]

Lots of wet dreams here still. It's a ongoing thing.
That video also is full of fanboyisems. Totally ignoring how bad MacOS and iOS are performing this year. Its actually laughable software compared to what Apple was known for. A different chip won't fix the mess they go there. A chip won't fix them selling iPads with 2GB of RAM and even messing up memorymanagment on simple Apple native Apps like Safari and Podcasts at the same time.

There is no guarantee this will be a success out of the gate, there is no guarantee this will be a success ten years from now. It might start out great and swindle down, it might start out pretty messy and get better. We don't know any of that. It's just silly to believe that Apple can't do no wrong. They are doing plenty of wrong, they are just doing it at great margins because they know how to do marketing and it obviously is not "all bad" in their system.

Absolutely no system on Earth is perfect. Neither are macOS and iOS. But they do are a lot better than anything others might do.

 

[Azrael9]

Lots of wet dreams here still. It's a ongoing thing.
That video also is full of fanboyisems. Totally ignoring how bad MacOS and iOS are performing this year. Its actually laughable software compared to what Apple was known for. A different chip won't fix the mess they go there. A chip won't fix them selling iPads with 2GB of RAM and even messing up memorymanagment on simple Apple native Apps like Safari and Podcasts at the same time.

There is no guarantee this will be a success out of the gate, there is no guarantee this will be a success ten years from now. It might start out great and swindle down, it might start out pretty messy and get better. We don't know any of that. It's just silly to believe that Apple can't do no wrong. They are doing plenty of wrong, they are just doing it at great margins because they know how to do marketing and it obviously is not "all bad" in their system.

I don't see any 'wet dreams' in any of the poster's comments. (Though the imagination is the best Apple Porn in the absence of any shipping hardware short of this fall by the looks of things...)

Rene, yes, well, he's a 'Mac Man...' The summation of what he was saying? Tuned software/hardware with superior performance and power (compared to?) Nothing that wasn't already said or demonstrated at WWDC.

What we have now isn't great. With Bloomberg pointing to 50-100% greater performance if their 'reporting' holds any stock. Then the current Mac Intel dross won't be that difficult to surpass. It says something when an A12z is eclipsing current consumer Mac hardware with Intel gpus and iGPU.

As for success out the gate. I'd suggest it can't do any worse than the current Intel consumer Mac harder. It's dreadful value for money. Medicore specs with high prices. Want a real 'wet dream?' (or Nightmare.) Configure the tier 1, 4k 21 inch iMac to something decent...then try not to fall over in shock at the sticker price.)

As for software. You're right there. Apple haven't draped themselves in Mac OS or iOS glory this past year. Likely as a result of the 'other team' getting priority for the BIG TRANSITION such as Mac OS ARM, Big Sur and 'secret' projects like Mac OS 'full fat' running on iPhones and iPads in the 'near' future (next two years?)

The ultimate battle will come down to how well tuned that Mac OS software is for the Apple Silicon to harness the co-processor potential.

Tea leaves.

In the absence of actual Apple products.

Azrael.

 

[jonblatho]

As for the podcasts you listend to.Are you certain they are news? Or did you just convinced by the same guess being repeated by everyone again and again? There is essentially one guy that said "iPad pro design language" and to my knowledge that is it.

There is also new API available in AppKit in macOS Big Sur which is the macOS equivalent to the UIKit API introduced in iOS 11.0 for apps to work around the iPhone X’s rounded display corners. Something’s coming.

But, whatever Macs are coming with an “iPad Pro design language,” they’re not coming until Big Sur is released at the earliest — the ship for further additive improvements to macOS Catalina has sailed with the release of macOS 10.15.6 this week.

 

[Azrael9]

There is also new API available in AppKit in macOS Big Sur which is the macOS equivalent to the UIKit API introduced in iOS 11.0 for apps to work around the iPhone X’s rounded display corners. Something’s coming.

But, whatever Macs are coming with an “iPad Pro design language,” they’re not coming until Big Sur is released at the earliest — the ship for further additive improvements to macOS Catalina has sailed with the release of macOS 10.15.6 this week.

Oh yeah? Intriguing...

A Mac OS equivalent to UKKit API... *rubs chin.

Azrael.

 

[xgman]

The more I read this long thread, the more I believe that anything is possible. So many variations of what can actually happen here. Hopes are high. i just hope we are all not collectively disappointed.

 

[jonblatho]

Oh yeah? Intriguing...

A Mac OS equivalent to UKKit API... *rubs chin.

Azrael.

Eh, it just provides layout guides on UIView for apps to work around the status bar and Home indicator on notched iPhones, and since iOS 12 the iPad Pro’s rounded corners. (Previously, apps often either used a top layout guide and filled the rest of the screen, or worse, just hardcoded the status bar height on rectangular-display iPhones.) Found this nice illustration on a Medium post:

This introduces similar layout guides on NSView, the macOS version of UIView. (To be clear, this has nothing to do with Catalyst.) But as of now, there aren’t any rounded corners to work around, and apps can’t extend under the macOS menu bar like they do iOS’s status bar.

A Mac with rounded display corners is coming, just not before Big Sur, as developers will need to be able to work around them with this API.

 

[ksodell]

Imminently. Time is relative.

So true. Rumor-mongers using the word "imminent" has become as common as macOS Catalina system issues. So until I can buy it, I have difficulty in believing in it.

 

[gusping]

Yeah I would at least come out with a 14”, slimmer-bezel MacBook Pro. The rest of the laptop line up is perfect. Air as ultraportable, AS letting it having 2-day battery life. Pro 14 for more demanding users but still portable enough. AS Pro 16 will come out fall 2021 with high performance AS and better GPU performance. This is pretty much the roadmap I think. Physically, except the Pro 13 which will likely become 14”, the laptops are perfect. I don’t know how, with today’s tech, they could make it even better. Yeah, still improvement for the display with MiniLED, but except better display technology, design-wise, I don’t know how they can make them better.

With AS, the laptop line up, once transition completes, will be the best laptop line up in the industry ever made.

• Custom, low-power, high performance Apple Silicon tailored specifically for the operating system.
• MiniLED Display for low power yet incredible Retina quality display for the entire line up, including MacBook Air (Less likely, but please Apple...)
• The perfect, reliable keyboard
• Touchbar for simplified human—machine interface
• Slim, portable, lightweight design across the entire line up.
• Thunderbolt 4 for high speed connectivity and charging. I really like the one-port-rule-them-all. And with AS we might see 4x thunderbolt 4 ports on the Air.
• Higher performing GPUs than anything Intel might come out with in the next 5 years.

What I would want is a unified laptop line up. They must share the same platform, but with different form factors. Don‘t let the user say ”damn, I need portability, but also want the great display, but MiniLED is only available on Pro models”. No ! Don‘t let this happen. Propose the same frame, the same platform, with different internals, but the same physical features. Same display, same Facetime camera, same keyboard, same number of Thunderbolt 4 ports, but change the SoC inside and let the Air be slimmer And lighter. This is the only thing Apple has to do. The quadrant. Don‘t let the user make compromise with the products you sell. When clients have to make compromises they are unhappy. It slowly ruins your business.

I really wish this can translate to Apple‘s desktops. Really.

• A beautiful iMac 24 with mid-range performance.
• A same-design iMac 30-32 with alllllmost Mac Pro performance.
• The same great Display technology, the same internal cooling, the same ports, the same everythiong, even the same motherboard in them. But you change the SoC in the 30-32 to make it a compute powerhouse. And you make the mac Mini a BTO option for the same high end AS SoC as the iMac 30-32.

Consumer laptop : MacBook Air. They could even make a 15 inch model of the Air. Why not have a 13 Air, 15 Air, 14 Pro, 16 Pro ? If someone likes the confort of having a 15 inch laptop but likes the slimer and lighter design for the Air, why not propose a 15 inch ?! Yeah, it adds a model to the portfolio, but the Air line is still the best seller line at Apple. Make a 15 inch Air with half the power of a Pro 16 for half the price, this will sell like hot bread (We say this in french).
Pro laptop : MacBook Pro 14, 16.

Consumer desktop : iMac 24
Prosumer desktop : iMac 30-32
Pro desktop : Mac Pro. And yeah, I dare to place the mac mini here.

Why mini in Pro desktop ?

Because this is the only truely customizable hardware platform Apple ever created.

”But the Mac Pro is upgradable, the Mac Pro has slots, etc”

97% of people don‘t care at all.
97% of people want a freaking computer that just works.

The Mac mini can have, if the customer wants, the lowest power Apple SoC they make. Great. Perfect low-power computer for basic task. It can even be passively cooled. Totally silent computer. Isn‘t the quest of Apple since the Apple II ? I don‘t remember his name, but there was an engineer trying to make a silent power supply for the Apple II without any fan !
But the Mac Mini could also have a top of the end 12-16-name-it cores SoC in it to make it a great powerhouse computer for demanding tasks. Even for CAD tasks.

Let the customer decide in the Mac mini what he wants in it. Propose a mac Mini with every SoC Apple makes. It’s only a matter of changing a freaking chip on a motherboard ! Ok, keep the highest performing for the Mac Pro (to let him a reason to even exist), but let the mac Mini be what it deserves to be : the best Mac ever created for those who bring macOS alive.


Isn’t it freaking complicated Apple ?

Sorry, you lost me at Touch Bar Nice write up though!

 

[pldelisle]

I am always fascinated by seeing NSView or NSsomething ...

[automerge]1594924423[/automerge]

Sorry, you lost me at Touch Bar Nice write up though!

I don’t have any mac that supports it, but I find it really nice (from a developer’s point of view).

 

[ksodell]

... With AS, the laptop line up, once transition completes, will be the best laptop line up in the industry ever made.
What I would want is a unified laptop line up... I really wish this can translate to Apple‘s desktops. Really...

Consumer desktop : iMac 24
Prosumer desktop : iMac 30-32
Pro desktop : Mac Pro. And yeah, I dare to place the mac mini here.

Isn’t it freaking complicated Apple ?

Incredibly well-written post, pldelisle!!! Very rich in answering our needs! Now, let's hope Tim and Company listen. Better yet, how about they hire you as a VP overseeing the Mac Line of products? Care to relocate to Cupertino? Maybe they'll let you telework from Montreal!

 

[pldelisle]

Care to relocate to Cupertino? Maybe they'll let you telework from Montreal!

Damn man if you offer me to move to Cupertino I take the first plane even if the borders are closed. Ahahaha !

 

[CWallace]

Digitimes...I doubt this because it suggest the same design. In my ears, dropping a new AS into the same body as the current Mac is a missed opportunity to shine light on the dramatic turn for Macs.

I think Apple wants an Apple Silicon laptop out in conjunction with Big Sur for developers to have something to test on, if nothing else. But I also think it will be there for the "early adopters" who want to give it a try.

You are correct Apple will want to differentiate the Apple Silicon line from the Intel line and that will happen starting in 2021 with:

• 14" MacBook Pro with MiniLED
• 16" MacBook Pro with MiniLED
• ~24" iMac
• 27" or larger iMac (with MiniLED?)

These will all have new form factors and new features [MiniLED, FaceID(?), Touch(?)] to differentiate them from the "old" Intel models.

 

[ksodell]

Wow! I 'thought' I understood what Apple was doing by going to AS. After watching this, I admit: I had NO CLUE! Thanks for posting this, Homy!

 

[mindquest]

Wow! I 'thought' I understood what Apple was doing by going to AS. After watching this, I admit: I had NO CLUE! Thanks for posting this, Homy!

WOW! 15 minutes video saying nothing new or insightful! Just of rehash of everything we know so far.

 

[DQ11]

It´s a wack idea, but i am thinking that maybe Apple dos not want people to order these old machines. Why else build a "virtual wait wall" around them shipping in the usual two weeks?
Thats very un-Apple since they like to sell us old stuff at a premium.
[automerge]1594891250[/automerge]
Shipping time for the low and mid tier base level 27 inch is back down to 29th of july - 7th of august here in Germany.

I think intel is the bottleneck. Because the only iMac on deep backorder now is the one with then 9th gen Intel i5 while the other two still rock 8th gen. The only difference between these three machines besides the CPU would be the GPU. So that could also be it.

The iMac stills not back in Apple Stores though. Maybe that will happen in the coming two weeks IF there is no new model released in that timeframe.

Doesn't seem crazy....I have to wait about 70 days for my BTO....by then a new imac should be announced/launched....I hope

 

[pldelisle]

Apple Canada's website doesn't even tell dates anymore. It just say 2-3 weeks for base model, 7-8 weeks for BTO.

 

[DrRadon]

The more I read this long thread, the more I believe that anything is possible. So many variations of what can actually happen here. Hopes are high. i just hope we are all not collectively disappointed.

At this point I am back to its only going to be a specs bump since all the leakers were wrong on this IMac.

 

[Azrael9]

Apple Canada's website doesn't even tell dates anymore. It just say 2-3 weeks for base model, 7-8 weeks for BTO.

That's a long wait...

...like there was an incoming iMac or something...

Azrael.
[automerge]1594935778[/automerge]

At this point I am back to its only going to be a specs bump since all the leakers were wrong on this IMac.

Hope springs eternal.

Azrael.

 

[ksodell]

WOW! 15 minutes video saying nothing new or insightful! Just of rehash of everything we know so far.

So true. Nothing new or insightful. What was I thinking?

mindquest: I hope to be like you when I grow up.

I appreciate the input and shared insight that ALL of you post on here. (That's why I spend time on this forum.) I'd like to think you do, too. Who knows - maybe I'm the only one.

But in the meantime, I and those of us that don't have endless amounts of time on our hands to watch the entire WWDC and every other internet post and video on what Apple has in store for us with AS might be thankful that Homy posted the video. It was one-stop shopping of information for us - even if a bit fanboy-ish. And for those of us that might not have totally understood the difference between run-of-the-mill ARM and the promised Apple Silicon platform, it was insightful.