I think the 21.5" is now End of Life. Intel has announced they will no longer make the CPUs it uses and the ~24" Apple Silicon iMac is a perfect replacement.
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Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?
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I think the 21.5" is now End of Life. Intel has announced they will no longer make the CPUs it uses and the ~24" Apple Silicon iMac is a perfect replacement.
It seems that you are misreading and mixing arguments a bit too. You are talking about different product categories, consumer and pro. I'm talking about the different models within the same category. You are referring to Power Mac G5 Quad Core 2.5 which was the fastest Mac even after the first Intel iMac, MacBook and MacBook Pro were introduced. That was expected and logical. Power Mac was after all the top pro computer. Apple wouldn't and couldn't introduce iMacs and laptops that would outperform its top Pro machine.
That will be the case this time too. Mac Pro will be the top performing computer and will get AS last. But as I've already said a few times I'm talking about the iMac lineup only. Apple won't sell iMacs with different CPUs (PPC, Intel, AS) in the same lineup. They never have before and never will. Their whole argument is that they can build better Macs with AS comparing to their old models. When they introduce the new AS iMac it must be better than the Intel iMac in every way. For that reason they can't at the same time sell an Intel iMac that outperforms their new shiny AS iMac. Even if iMac i9 would outperform AS iMac it will already be discontinued and not available for sale. The whole iMac lineup will have AS. They will also make sure that the new AS iMacs won't outperform their Intel Mac Pros until they introduce AS Pros. That can be a bit difficult to avoid though since iMac i9 already outperforms the base Mac pro in Geekbench multi-core so I'm expecting the top AS iMac to also outperform Mac Pro Xenon 8-core.
Also according to yourself Apple transitions its popular models first and iMac 27" is the most popular among iMacs.
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But hasn't the mini already technically received the AS? sort of? Seems to me it might as well just go on and be the first to receive the final AS since the devs are already using it.
Why would Apple not be able to match an i9-10850K from the start? As I wrote before A13 Bionic in iPhone SE/11 at 2.7GHz already outperforms i9-9900K at 3.6GHz 95W in iMac 27" 2019 in single core. A12Z Bionic at 2.5GHz 7W in iPad Pro matches the performance of i5-8500 3.0GHz 6-core 65W in iMac 21.5" 2019 in multi-core. The company called Ampere has already a 80-core ARM CPU faster than Xenon 28-core in Mac Pro so there is no need for Apple to wait 2 years to launch its top AS iMac that outperforms Intel iMacs.
Apple can do a lot of things. They can build A13Z or A14Z and increase the core count, TDP, CPU speed or only use performance cores in iMac alongside better cooling. 12-core iMac is already rumored. They have lot more options to match and outperform Intel. Not to forget all the dedicated special chips they can build for different tasks and optimizing their software.
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Correct. Intel issued a Product Change Notice in early June and pretty much every 8th Generation CPU except the one in the Mac Mini was flagged as "End of Life".
MCK is pretty firm there will be a 13.3" Apple Silicon MacBook Pro coming by the end of the year and even if Apple kills the Intel-powered model at the same time, there will still be the "16-inch MacBook Pro Powered By Intel" sitting next to it on the table in the Apple Store.
I expect Apple wants to use form-factor and feature-set to differentiate Apple Silicon from Intel rather than raw benchmarks.
A 24" Apple Silicon iMac with FaceID and minimal bezels and no chin (essentially a 24" iPad Pro on a stand) will sell on looks and features just fine against a 27" Intel iMac that looks just as it has since 2012 and still needs you to type in your password to login.
The clamoring will not be "look how much faster the Intel model is!" It will be "when the hell do we get a 27" Apple Silicon iMac that looks this amazing and has all these cool features!".
Same when the 14.1" MiniLED Apple Silicon MacBook Pro with FaceID comes in 2021 to replace the 13.3" model. At that point everyone is going to point at the 16" and demand it also receive MiniLED and FaceID. And if that means Intel must go in favor of Apple Silicon, there will be little outcry.
I'm starting to feel that Sonny was incorrect and there truly won't be a redesign for Intel.
Where is Azrael to emotionally lift me up from this pessimistic thinking
To be honest, I'm so bored with waiting and kinda almost lost appetite for the Intel iMac that I kinda wish that we get AS iMac this fall and be done with it. If Intel truly is no redesign and as some say no RDNA2 etc. then what the hell are we going to get apart from overcooking Intel chip? A refresh should be something to look forward to and be excited about and if neither (RDNA2 + redesign) is happening then its truly boring before it even arrives.
There truly isn't much to be excited about so I hope I'm just down and that Apple will surprise us with something nice. There is tons to be done with iMac. Simple spec bump won't do for anyone especially when the gain is minimal.
Where is Azrael to emotionally lift me up from this pessimistic thinking
To be honest, I'm so bored with waiting and kinda almost lost appetite for the Intel iMac that I kinda wish that we get AS iMac this fall and be done with it. If Intel truly is no redesign and as some say no RDNA2 etc. then what the hell are we going to get apart from overcooking Intel chip? A refresh should be something to look forward to and be excited about and if neither (RDNA2 + redesign) is happening then its truly boring before it even arrives.
There truly isn't much to be excited about so I hope I'm just down and that Apple will surprise us with something nice. There is tons to be done with iMac. Simple spec bump won't do for anyone especially when the gain is minimal.
Both the outer and inner packaging of the above iMac (BTO iMac 27" 3.7GHz with SSD) was water damaged during shipping on one side, the outer box fairly severely but the inner box only slightly. The iMac itself seemed perfectly fine but I decided to contact Apple to ask for a new inner box to use for transports and resale value. Not only was it not possible to receive just a box, they also said that if I decided to keep the iMac the warranty would be voided. They offered to send me a replacement and given the warranty statement I had to accept the switch.
The replacement iMac was ordered on the 17th of July, assembled last week, shipped on Thursday from Shanghai China and arrived today in Sweden. So the 2019 version is still being delivered, although my case might have been handled differently given that it was a warranty issue.
That being said I hope for your sanity's sake that my iMac was one of the last 2019 to be delivered.
Can I be an old man and just say this **** is getting old...the wait...the dated tech...Apple...
I agree, the A12Z has Geekbench (GB) 800/2600 under rosetta 2 using four of eight cores. We still need more data about the Geekbench native and translating directly between iOS and MacOS is premature. Rosetta overhead is unknown but significant. Let’s say 20%. That together with an general performance increase of 15% for the new 5nm process plus 12 operating cores would give something around 1100/10000. It will therefore be no surprise if the iMac 12-core chips performs as the 10900k but be used in the iMac 24 inch. If Apple aims to that performance is another matter.Why would Apple not be able to match an i9-10850K from the start? As I wrote before A13 Bionic in iPhone SE/11 at 2.7GHz already outperforms i9-9900K at 3.6GHz 95W in iMac 27" 2019 in single core. A12Z Bionic at 2.5GHz 7W in iPad Pro matches the performance of i5-8500 3.0GHz 6-core 65W in iMac 21.5" 2019 in multi-core. The company called Ampere has already a 80-core ARM CPU faster than Xenon 28-core in Mac Pro so there is no need for Apple to wait 2 years to launch its top AS iMac that outperforms Intel iMacs.
Apple can do a lot of things. They can build A13Z or A14Z and increase the core count, TDP, CPU speed or only use performance cores in iMac alongside better cooling. 12-core iMac is already rumored. They have lot more options to match and outperform Intel. Not to forget all the dedicated special chips they can build for different tasks and optimizing their software.
True the chip fitting the iMac 27/32 will come later but perform much better than that an 10900k or the first batch of AS. There is nothing stopping Apple to make a 24-core chip if the correct cooling is provided.
i will give this either till next week Wednesday or the Monday (17th) after.
Whats up with your wednesdays and mondays? Apple updates on tuesdays usually unless there is a bank holiday in which case it goes to wednesday or if there is an event that every day there is something.
Almost never its monday unless its at an event (like WWDC).
So, its not tomorrow and probably not even next tuesday. If anything, end of august probably earliest as per many leakers.
Almost never its monday unless its at an event (like WWDC).
So, its not tomorrow and probably not even next tuesday. If anything, end of august probably earliest as per many leakers.
We already have the result for A12Z in iPad Pro and it's 1118/4626. Single-core is great. They have to double the multi-core to reach 8289 by i9-9900K but there are many solutions to achieve that.
I will not explain my reasoning about these dates a third time to you. By now you are just egalitarian.
New word that I learnt today.
Not sure what you mean by that but ok.
Anyway, didn't see that you explained it 2x. Sorry if I missed it. But yeah, lets skip this as its my fault for missing it.
Not sure what you mean by that but ok.
Anyway, didn't see that you explained it 2x. Sorry if I missed it. But yeah, lets skip this as its my fault for missing it.
Well, anything is possible after all but you're basing that on a rumor and we know how rumors and leakers can be these days. I'm basing my opinion on Apple's history and some common logic. Last time Apple actually did a similar thing when they introduced MBP 15" and still sold PB 17" which was considered the top laptop at the time but even then the new base MBP 15" Core Duo 1.83 GHz outperformed PB 17" G4 1.67 GHz in Geekbench 2 with 2288 to 836. It was a huge motivation for customers to buy the new Intel MBP. It was like "Hey, look how awesome this new tech is. Even the base model outperforms the previous top model by almost 300%".
If Apple doesn't do a similar thing and introduces AS iMacs that don't outperform the top Intel iMac many customers won't switch and will wait for better AS iMacs that outperforms the rumored i9-10800K iMac. There will be no big motivation for us to switch to a new iMac that already at the introduction is inferior to an old Intel iMac from previous year. That wouldn't be a good marketing strategy by Apple right when they need it most.
For those reasons my conclusion is that either the new AS iMac will outperform the previous top Intel iMac if both are sold at the same time or Apple will only sell AS iMacs even if they may not outperform Intel iMacs from the start. Maybe the rumored 24" AS iMac will be the only one sold for a period until larger ones come.
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To offer more is another word for beating.
It just means AS doesn't need to beat Intel in benchmarks.
MCK at least has a solid track record with actual product details because his contacts are directly in the Apple production chain. So they are reporting on physical chassis and components being produced.
Not everybody buys on performance, though. Heck, the majority of the past couple of thousand posts on this thread has not been about clamoring for more performance, but instead clamoring for a new design and new features like FaceID and MiniLED and quieter, more-effective cooling. The majority even feel the true "power iMac" - the iMac Pro - is going End of Life because "nobody needs that power at that price".
IMO, at the start Apple Silicon Mac innovation is going to be driven by new form factors and new features (like FaceID). There will be better performance, but it will initially be against Intel's 10-25WTDP CPUs used in the (return of the) 12-inch MacBook, the 13-inch MacBook Air and the 13-inch MacBook Pro. A 24" Apple Silicon iMac might not run clock-for-clock against a 21.5-inch iMac with an i5 across the board, but it's going to be more than fast enough for the tasks the 95%+ of folks who own a 21.5-inch iMac use it for.
Mine is if the Apple Silicon model is fast enough to handle the majority of the tasks, it will ship even if more-powerful Intel models are also available in the family/line-up.
If I'm making music in Logic Pro and I can run 80 tracks...and then the AS chip comes along in the new 27" AS imac and I can only run 70 tracks.......That will be a problem.
The single core score is there...it's the multi-core score that needs some work, which should be where it needs to be within 2 years.
* I'm going 2020 Intel imac....and then in 2025 I'll get an AS imac hopefully at 32"...........By then they will be in full stride with the AS and they will be that much better.
The single core score is there...it's the multi-core score that needs some work, which should be where it needs to be within 2 years.
* I'm going 2020 Intel imac....and then in 2025 I'll get an AS imac hopefully at 32"...........By then they will be in full stride with the AS and they will be that much better.
Been waiting for a newly designed iMac since... forever. At this point, my question would be, "End of August of what year?"
