Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[Azrael9]

AMD Radeon Pro 5000 Series GPUs will bring big graphics improvements to iMac - 9to5Mac

Today, Apple announced updates to the iMac lineup. While there were small bumps to the 21.5 inch iMac and the...

9to5mac.com

With new video-centric cameras on the horizon like the 8K-capable Canon EOS R5 or the Sony Alpha 7S III, the 5000 series’ video encoding capability sticks out most to me. Like I noted on the release of the W5700X for the Mac Pro, the addition of onboard hardware-accelerated H.265 and VP9 encoding/decoding for 4K and 8K in Navi 10-based GPUs should have a real-world impact on video workflows.

2020 iMac comparison, should you buy it? - 9to5Mac

Apple has launched the new 27-inch iMac. Read along for a detailed 2020 iMac comparison to its predecessor and if you should buy it or pass.

9to5mac.com

Azrael.

 

[filmak]

I don't see any reason why not. It's ultimately bout bringing 50-100% better performance and order of magnitude workflows to the base Mac unit. Instead of HAVING to outsource your graphics to an eGPU because the Intel iGPU is crap. Or the AMD gpu is last year's unit.

You'll get 'THIS YEAR'S' Apple gpu when it launches. I should imagine you'll still be able to add eGPU, external SSDs etc. But the base units won't be 2nd class citizens anymore. You'll have great base performance in exotic new form factors that you can 'dock' to eGPUs to further boost its potency.

It's about AS Macs being 'true' to themselves. As long as the base unit Mac is better than the base unit Intel/iGPU/AMD in terms of cpu/gpu/machine learning (and the zillion other co-processors Apple will add to improve sound and image editing...or colour efficiency for pro work flows...or video encoding...these all add up to a superior experience...)

That AS Mac vs a Generic Dell PC is going to be a non-contest by the time this transition is over.

Sure. A 16 cpu AMD and an Ampere 3090 Ti are going to appear impressive on paper.

But what if an iPad can encode 4k or 8k as smooth as butter? What if an Apple GPU can make your general video produciton workflow x2 faster in terms of editing or seeing 3-5 4k edit windows playing back as smooth as butter with no stutter? Or a Mac Mini AS that can play Lara Croft as smooth as butter with all effects on? No dropped frames? Or that same mini brings leading edge Maya 3D work to the consumer?

You look at the PS5 and the level of democratisation it's going to bring to the 'average' at home...on my tv screen gamer. Ray tracing. In the living room on a 50 inch tv. I used to dream of real time Ray Tracing. Your average home user is going to get ray tracing before Macs. The suppose leading edge creative machine. *(Yeah, we all know Apple will offer the RDNA2 on iMac Pro only. They have no shame.)*

Versus a pokey 24-27 HD-2440p inch monitor with the counter strike crowd obsessed with fps.

*shrugs.*

You can keep your Ampere (you'll be bending over to the tune of £1200, at least...and that's before the rest of the PC gamOR system...and monitor...) if I can get RDNA2 class gpu performance in a console on my 50 inch TV for £399.

Apple will charge you ten-12 times more to get RDNA2 performance when they bung a 'Pro' version of one in the iMac Pro this November.

Azrael.

Yes, we hope for the best but who is going to write new drivers for the new hardware inside eGPus if they stop buying from AMD? (Which is going to happen at some point).

 

[DrRadon]

Speaking of which. What is the cheapest way to get Win 10 Pro for Bootcamp on my iMac?

Azrael.

OEM Key goes for 7,50€ in some places.

 

[Azrael9]

Yes, we hope for the best but who is going to write new drivers for the new hardware inside eGPus if they stop buying from AMD? (Which is going to happen at some point).

Well. Apple isn't always great on follow through. But in the case of the eGPU they have made an effort and with more exotic or thinner AS devices, having access to eGPU to boost the core device still makes sense.

As we can imagine, Ampere and RDNA2 are going to be significant. And adding these to any potent AS gpu will give a greater boost to a sound AS gpu.

If you're someone who has a real time gpu rendering or ray tracing rendering workflow, for example.

I guess AMD will have to provide Metal drivers if they want access to millions of Mac customers.

Azrael.

 

[filmak]

Well. Apple isn't always great on follow through. But in the case of the eGPU they have made an effort and with more exotic or thinner AS devices, having access to eGPU to boost the core device still makes sense.

As we can imagine, Ampere and RDNA2 are going to be significant. And adding these to any potent AS gpu will give a greater boost to a sound AS gpu.

If you're someone who has a real time gpu rendering or ray tracing rendering workflow, for example.

I guess AMD will have to provide Metal drivers if they want access to millions of Mac customers.

Azrael.

Apple could also build an eGPU/external module with AS internals to boost GPU performance, if needed.
So everything would be Apple's parts.

 

[Azrael9]

Apple could also build an eGPU/external module with AS internals to boost GPU performance, if needed.
So everything would be Apple's parts.

Aye. They're doing it with the Mac Pro and AMD GPUs.

No reason they couldn't do that based upon their own Apple Silicon.

Azrael.

 

[fokmik]

I dont know if it will be post here too...but based on the last beta...i think the next arm based macs, laptop or imac...will come with T3 chip based on the A11..so we could see even better performance driven by the T3 chip
September/October can't come fast enough !!

 

[christiann]

Im thinking 2021, the first Silicon Macs are gonna come out, then they’re gonna launch the new design of iMacs!

 

[fokmik]

Im thinking 2021, the first Silicon Macs are gonna come out, then they’re gonna launch the new design of iMacs!

Its clear the first Apple Silicone mac will come out this year...Big Sur on dev kit is pretty stable
Maybe will not get an imac this year...but at least 1 product for sure it will be presented in Sept/Oct

 

[Homy]

Stop posing.

Get on with the benching...

Geeze, somebody just get the guy a mirror...and a sandwich...

Azrael.

yeah, I saw that one. Just like iJustine's it's a clickbate. 🤢

 

[Homy]

Maybe this is why we haven't seen a redesign in a decade. He supports his team but doesn't get involved much as Steve Jobs.

"He seldom visited Apple’s design studio, a place Mr. Jobs visited almost daily."

WSJ profile of Tim Cook offers new insight into the life and leadership style of the Apple CEO - 9to5Mac

A new profile from The Wall Street Journal offers an inside look at how Apple has evolved under the leadership...

9to5mac.com

 

[Nismo73]

yeah, I saw that one. Just like iJustine's it's a clickbate. 🤢

I‘m one of the down votes...it’s just an unboxing.

 

[Voyageur]

Do you think that they 're going to support eGPUs after the AS transition?
Now they have the AMD drivers built in and update them at some point with the OS, what will happen later? No drivers no more eGPUs?

At the moment, modern eGPU solutions has already run into the limitations of the TB3 throughput. And over the years, their effectiveness against the background of embedded GPU/SoC solutions will fall more and more, unless a new, faster way of "delivering" data is invented. TB4 is not capable of this, at best it will be TB5. We will wait for him ... for years.

 

[pldelisle]

Sure. A 16 cpu AMD and an Ampere 3090 Ti are going to appear impressive on paper.

You are always right my Az.
Except when you mixe Nvidia and Apple in the same sentence

This will never ever happen anymore

 

[pldelisle]

At the moment, modern eGPU solutions has already run into the limitations of the TB3 throughput. And over the years, their effectiveness against the background of embedded GPU/SoC solutions will fall more and more, unless a new, faster way of "delivering" data is invented. TB4 is not capable of this, at best it will be TB5. We will wait for him ... for years.

Totally agree.
EGPU is a patch only. Not a viable solution yet. It can help for some use case. It can apply patch when you need it. But as a software engineer I don’t find eGPU is a « deployable, production-ready » solution for most demanding tasks a user could have.

But I cannot see any reason why development efforts would stop for supporting eGPU. It can only be better in the coming years.

 

[filmak]

Totally agree.
EGPU is a patch only. Not a viable solution yet. It can help for some use case. It can apply patch when you need it. But as a software engineer I don’t find eGPU is a « deployable, production-ready » solution for most demanding tasks a user could have.

But I cannot see any reason why development efforts would stop for supporting eGPU. It can only be better in the coming years.

Apple promoted the idea of eGPU a lot, perhaps to overcome the lack of internal expansion in Macs.
Anyway, imho currently it is only a limited patch as you mentioned, no comparison to the PCIe version's performance and functionality, but it may be helpful in some use cases, as you know, there is not an alternative better solution for the sealed, glued and soldered Macs...

 

[Jashue]

This thread is a monster. I leave it for a few days to come back to over ten new pages! I want to keep up in order to help make the proper decision with regard to my build but I just can't find the time...

So if someone would indulge me with some advice, it would be hugely appreciated! First context: my 2011 27" iMac died a couple months ago. Whatever I get will be a dramatic improvement, so I can't really go wrong. I'd like to wait for Apple Silicon, but it's not going to happen. I need a machine now. I'm a data hoarder and I realize that I can go external (as I have been, by necessity), but I can't shake the desire to have it all on tap from a lickety-split SSD. I'm going 4TB, and I am allowing this irrationality this time around. I'm going 8 gigs of ram with the intention of upgrading it myself via Crucial to 40 gigs. That leaves me to two decisions-- the CPU and GPU.

As for the CPU... I typically go all out to stave off obsolescence, but in this case I'm thinking that the i7 would suffice. Everyone seems to be freaking out about the thermals on this machine. Is the i7 that much cooler than the i9 or do they both sound like hair dryers under load? Either one would be amazing compared to the 3.4 Sandy Bridge processor that I'm coming from, so going i9 would probably be a matter of vanity (more irrationality). The most intensive tasks I'd be throwing at my machine would be work with HandBrake. After that-- Photoshop and lots of it. Given what I've shared here, can anyone offer a compelling reason to go i9?

For GPU... I'm torn between the Radeon Pro 5500 XT and the Radeon Pro 5700. I don't know what the additional $300 buys me. I'm not a gamer, so it seems as though I can make do with less. The truth is, I don't know much about GPUs at all.

I figure I'll keep this machine for at least 5 years, and probably longer. I don't get the sense that the AS iMacs designed to perform at the level of today's higher end Intel iMacs will hit for three years-- but who knows? That's just my sense.

Thoughts?

 

[CWallace]

As for the CPU... I typically go all out to save off obsolescence, but in this case I'm thinking that the i7 would suffice. Everyone seems to be freaking out about the thermals on this machine. Is the i7 that much cooler than the i9 or do they both sound like hair dryers under load?

Per Intel's spreadsheets, both the i7-10700K and i9-10910 are 125W TDP parts. So arguably they should both peg the fans on the iMac when they are under maximum load.

 

[Fred Zed]

Ordered the wife’s first iMac yesterday second tier 27”. She wanted AppleCare plus. But i was dead set against that. Oh well.

 

[Homy]

This thread is a monster. I leave it for a few days to come back to over ten new pages! I want to keep up in order to help make the proper decision with regard to my build but I just can't find the time...

So if someone would indulge me with some advice, it would be hugely appreciated!

Thoughts?

If you have time take a look att the reviews and benchmarks in this thread: https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/imac-2020-reviews-and-benchmarks-the-last-intel-imac.2248978

 

[The_Lord_of_Apple]

I wasn't talking about COVID drop, I was talking about the drop when they announced delays + WWDC + firing the chief etc.

And I did research, some people are not able to see when history is being written and thats ok. We can revisit this conversation in 2 years time.
Not pounding my chest, just can see the huge opportunity for Apple and the missed opportunity for Intel. Simple as that.
If you can't see it thats fine but make sure to remember me when it happens

as it was quoted earlier by another member that intel losing apple's order is a drop in the ocean. you do realize the enterprise world runs on intel right?

intel's share didn't have a sharp drop on June 22nd during WWDC. Intel had a huge drop from 23rd to 31st July which wasn't due to Apple's announcement. I think you need to understand how the stock market works.

i have far better things to remember than some random nerd's comment on a forum, two years from now.

 

[Freida]

Not nerd, just observant. Just look what A did for iPhones. Same will be for Macs

as it was quoted earlier by another member that intel losing apple's order is a drop in the ocean. you do realize the enterprise world runs on intel right?

intel's share didn't have a sharp drop on June 22nd during WWDC. Intel had a huge drop from 23rd to 31st July which wasn't due to Apple's announcement. I think you need to understand how the stock market works.

i have far better things to remember than some random nerd's comment on a forum, two years from now.

 

[DrRadon]

Thoughts?

You could buy all upgrades and not worry about the thermals (that most likely are going to be just fine enough day to day anyway) if you never run the computer under any kind of ongoing heavy load.
But you also could save a ton of money by just getting the lowest base model + SSD space if all you do is brows the web and watch Netflix.

So what would you need a better CPU or GPU for? Nothing your 2011 iMac used to run, thats for certain.

Handbreak could probably use more CPU power, but is it really worth it?
Photoshop really depends on what you are working with. You certainly don't need a better computer if all you do is creating 400x400 meme pics, if you are fooling around 1tb files of disney marvel avengers posters it's different.

 

[Jashue]

You could buy all upgrades and not worry about the thermals (that most likely are going to be just fine enough day to day anyway) if you never run the computer under any kind of ongoing heavy load.
But you also could save a ton of money by just getting the lowest base model + SSD space if all you do is brows the web and watch Netflix.

So what would you need a better CPU or GPU for? Nothing your 2011 iMac used to run, thats for certain.

Handbreak could probably use more CPU power, but is it really worth it?
Photoshop really depends on what you are working with. You certainly don't need a better computer if all you do is creating 400x400 meme pics, if you are fooling around 1tb files of disney marvel avengers posters it's different.

I did mention "lots of photoshop" and I mentioned that I use Handbrake. Those are the most intensive tasks. Everything else could be handled by Apple's entry level offerings. The reason I've always gone high-end is because I like to hold on to my machines for a long time. And frankly, it's fun to have the latest-and-greatest machine. I'll never be able to afford a Ferrari, but I can have the Ferrari of iMacs if I please. Kinda dumb, I know. Most people here are enthusiasts though, and can probably relate to that sentiment. The coming Apple Silicon of course puts a bit of a damper on that element making us all try to be more realistic about our needs though, doesn't it? That's the reason for my inquiry.

Good reality check, DrRadon.

 

[Freida]

Guys, I went to the local Apple store here and finally managed to see the XDR in person along with the Mac Pro and the new iMacs. Unfortunately, none of them were with the nano coating which I really don't understand.

The iMac seemed fairly quiet when I ran benchmarks in the store repeatedly but the store was quite noisy so who knows how loud it would be in my home office.
As for XDR, it really is impressive but it felt a bit small. Maybe it was because I was standing and not sitting in front of it but I expected it a bit bigger.
The screen itself is beautiful but I feel its not worth the price tag for prosumers at all.

Its a shame because I loved it but I didn't love it that much to spend almost $10k CAD for it (crazy)

So, next week in Vancouver so hopefully I will see the nano coating there. Also hope they will have higher models of the iMac on display to test.

Those who have 5700XT and 8/10c. How loud and hot is it, please?