Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

When do you expect an iMac redesign?

  • 4rd quarter 2019

    Votes: 34 4.1%
  • 1st quarter 2020

    Votes: 23 2.8%
  • 2nd quarter 2020

    Votes: 119 14.5%
  • 3rd quarter 2020

    Votes: 131 15.9%
  • 4rd quarter 2020

    Votes: 172 20.9%
  • 2021 or later

    Votes: 343 41.7%

  • Total voters
    822
  • Poll closed .
The iMac name has a lot of brand equity (it arguably saved the company, and ignited a design trend), and has already persisted through a major architecture change.

The PowerBook name was retired in favor of MacBook due not only to the architecture change, but also to rationalize all the laptops (PB and iBook), under a single, unified product line.

Given Apple's penchant to stick to established product names, as well as more recently resurrecting briefly dormant ones like the iPad Air, I wouldn't expect any major changes when the Apple Silicon machines arrive.
 
With Nano Glass you might even argue that it exiles the iMac Pro. But well, who cares, i get what i won't. Worst case i have someone take the computer apart, drill a hole in the chase and install a cooling block were the HDD used to be. xD

Ironic.

The iMac has the Nano glass...

...and the bladdy iMac Pro has the superior cooling.

They got that the wrong way around.

'Swap ya...' sez Azrael.

10 cores and you have a single bleedin' fan... I'd rather have the option for superior cooling. But they'd probably charge £500 for adds up to an extra fan and vent.

What were they thinking.

Azrael.
 
Beautiful! Looking forward to Ampere, RDNA 2 and the new consoles later this year.

A few decisions to be made... Oh, and the new iPhone and Apple Watch may be of interest too ;)

8th of September for Ampere. A monster by the sound of it.

RDNA2 around November? And the PS5/X consoles also around then.

And the AS laptop and Big Sur too.

A very exciting end to the year, tech' wise.

Azrael.
 
Ironic.

The iMac has the Nano glass...

...and the bladdy iMac Pro has the superior cooling.

They got that the wrong way around.

'Swap ya...' sez Azrael.

10 cores and you have a single bleedin' fan... I'd rather have the option for superior cooling. But they'd probably charge £500 for adds up to an extra fan and vent.

What were they thinking.

Azrael.
They were thinking that they want +£500. The better way to get them from the buyer is with the nano glass option because they have some iMac Pros left to sell with the superior cooling, if they have added the superior cooling to the new iMac it would be harder to sell the old iMP, now there is an extra reason to buy it.
 
New names are not easily recognisable, they are the opposite of that, they are completely unfamiliar. They would have to go to the trouble of educating the public on what the new names mean, and to what end? Better to use familiar, well established product names but simply present new generations of them with differentiated features to mark the advancement.

And it’s not in Apple’s culture to couple product names with internal technology. They tend to try to mask that. It would also be highly unprofessional and disrespectful to a key partner to make too big a fuss over the switch from Intel. So it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Apple focus on features and outcomes and benefits and barely mention Intel if at all.

The iMac name has a lot of brand equity (it arguably saved the company, and ignited a design trend), and has already persisted through a major architecture change.

The PowerBook name was retired in favor of MacBook due not only to the architecture change, but also to rationalize all the laptops (PB and iBook), under a single, unified product line.

Given Apple's penchant to stick to established product names, as well as more recently resurrecting briefly dormant ones like the iPad Air, I wouldn't expect any major changes when the Apple Silicon machines arrive.


And the iBook had a strong name too but they dumped it, when the architecture change happened, and we got easily used to the entry level Macbook, not a tragedy happened and they did not lost customers because of that.

Of course the iMac name has a lot of brand equity, I'm not saying that they have to change naming due to the AS transition but they may do so if they want o give a tone of a new start, they certainly do not have to bash intel, this is not right by any means.

If you look at the iMac name now and think freely what do you see and think? what is the addition of the letter "i" means today? Is it in line with the other Macs? Is it something left from the past when the "i" series meant something and when there were two lines available, like the full power Macs and laptops and the cheaper limited iBooks and iMacs? Why there is a Mac "Pro" where there is not a non pro Mac?

These are just thoughts and I repeat that I do not have any desire for different names, they do not have to change anything but they surely can if they (Apple) think it would be better to do so.

:)
 
Last edited:
Well, since they just rebranded OS X to MacOS i doubt they will stop naming computers some sort of "Mac". ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: filmak

Stop posing.

Get on with the benching...

Geeze, somebody just get the guy a mirror...and a sandwich...

Azrael.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: anthony13
Well, since they just rebranded OS X to MacOS i doubt they will stop naming computers some sort of "Mac". ;)

They could return to the 'Apple I, Apple II, Apple III...' style naming.

There is the Power labs. But that was tied to the cpu of the time.

ASMac? (Ass Mac?) Kick Ass Mac? I don't see that either.

They have got brand equity in 'Mac' which gave its name to the family of 'Macs' we now passionate about.

Variations on the Mac theme are expected.

It can be just Mac or Mac Pro.

Or MacBook. or MacBook Pro.

The iMac, as stated above, has much brand equity.

And the OS moved away from OS X to Mac OS. A move I approved of.

Azrael.
 

As noted on the benchmarks thread.

My 680MX compared to the Mac gpu Pro 5700XT.

Anyone coming from a 2012-ish iMac?

In for quite a gpu boost.

Azrael.
I am very intrigued as to how Apple's own GPUs will compete with high-end GPUs... Perhaps it will be as simple as: if the task you want is hardware accelerated (ML, etc), then it will be fine, otherwise forget it. I know they showed off a few demos at WWDC, but that hasn't fully sold me they can do the GPU stuff as well as the CPU side of things.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Azrael9
They could return to the 'Apple I, Apple II, Apple III...' style naming.

Nah, that just dates the product. There is a reason they just say MacBook, iMac and such.
I think they even tried to un number the iPhone, but that had become such a staple that they can't.
 
Worst case i have someone take the computer apart, drill a hole in the chase and install a cooling block were the HDD used to be. xD

Funny, watching the teardown vid and seeing that big empty space inside, I thought the same thing - a custom vent/hole with some DIY cooling. Will have to see how my BTO performs when I've got it rendering out 4k or 8k 360 footage (but I think I already know what's gonna happen...)
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrRadon
I am very intrigued as to how Apple's own GPUs will compete with high-end GPUs... Perhaps it will be as simple as: if the task you want is hardware accelerated (ML, etc), then it will be fine, otherwise forget it. I know they showed off a few demos at WWDC, but that hasn't fully sold me they can do the GPU stuff as well as the CPU side of things.

I think the more competitors in the GPU space the better. (See: Nvidia cpu pricing.)

Mac being the 'creative/work' machine we can see workflow tasks accelerated, perhaps by an order of magnitude. One subtle example is the way that on Apple GPU hardware, the 'biker/cyclist' in the video example could be crop isolated and they had 3x 4k streams ongoing. I do remember one play back review example of the 2019 iMac and its 580 struggling with one smooth 4k stream.

It's not just raw numbers and grunt (though it will have plenty of that...) it's efficiency. Try sucking a McDonald's smooth through a thin straw? No matter how much 'blow' (no jokes, please...) you have or 'suck' (!) it's never going to be efficient.

The current A12z may, according to a dev, have the power of a 1060. A 'proper' AS Mac may have the power of a 2060 (I'd take that in a Mac Mini...and would have bought one at that plus a monitor of my choice...) but if the efficiency is x4 times or 400% greater that can turn into a lot of user power. The machine learning can accelerate tasks by an order of magnitude. There are WWDC2020 tech' videos that demonstrate Apple is quite serious about gpu power to give good gpu power in all Macs. Including the Mini. And that a great amount of that effort will be in efficiency. So it may have the raw grunt of a eg. 2060 Nividia...but it will hit harder because of greater efficiency. Maybe it can process that workload 4x 'faster' because of the efficiency...in workflow and games. One good example was a ralley game where the game ran as smooth as butter with no dropped frames.

It's not just about general monolithic grunt. Or the classic try running a F1 down a country lane example. Efficiency can limit power potential and design. Compare the Macs to the iOS devices. The Macs look...and feel...well...old to use.

It's about user workload cases. Video. 3D rendering. Your workflow window. Ray Tracing. Once you can do those kind of things. Once these things are accelerated it's going to make a massive difference.

We're no longer going to get generic gpus on our Macs. Or Nvidia gpus. But they do serve as a compass for how gpu tech is advancing in general. And what Apple is doing with AS balanced against it.

I'd rather take an iPad style 'feel of optimisation, with sound gaming performance and 4/8k video codec performance (which beats up a Mac Pro...) than the current Mac situation where it doesn't have the leading cpu performance, efficiency or gpu performance. But the prices are certainly 'class' leading. This efficiency will come to all AS Macs. And therefore many, currently considered, 'pro workflow' features and 'mainstream-higher pc' games will come to all consumer Macs. Once the big gaming companies catch onto the £££ in mobile gaming. As Blizzard themselves cottoned onto. Having been roundly boo'd by their 'home pc gamer' crowd. But Diablo always looked like a mobile type of game. An iPad could easily run it.

I grew rather tired of Macs having 2nd rate gaming with a 2nd rate graphic API with 2nd rate devs or creative app devs porting feature bi-passed examples of their best sell apps. That would probably explain why I didn't buy Macs that often. That and the high prices for such fare.

This last legacy iMac is a worthy flag ship iMac. It's probably the 1st one where I feel it can handle 3d without some 3rd rate gpu on it. Yeah. It's still last year's gpu. And no, we didn't get RDNA2. But that won't ship until around November and you can at least at it via eGPU.

But I won't pretend (just because I bought one...) that everything in the garden is rosey. It wasn't and isn't. iStale design. And one sodding fan.

I'm still looking forward to the new AS iMac. The cpu cores. The gpu cores. The efficiency. The doors of infinity opening to the iOS market of millions of apps. The Mac never had that.

It's going to have that. And better gaming performance. Better creative app performance all round.

Azrael.
 
Last edited:
I think the more competitors in the GPU space the better. (See: Nvidia cpu pricing.)

Mac being the 'creative/work' machine we can see workflow tasks accelerated, perhaps by an order of magnitude. One subtle example is the way that on Apple GPU hardware, the 'biker/cyclist' in the video example could be crop isolated and they had 3x 4k streams ongoing. I do remember one play back review example of the 2019 iMac and its 580 struggling with one smooth 4k stream.

It's not just raw numbers and grunt (though it will have plenty of that...) it's efficiency. Try sucking a McDonald's smooth through a thin straw? No matter how much 'blow' (no jokes, please...) you have or 'suck' (!) it's never going to be efficient.

The current A12z may, according to a dev, have the power of a 1060. A 'proper' AS Mac may have the power of a 2060 (I'd take that in a Mac Mini...and would have bought one at that plus a monitor of my choice...) but if the efficiency is x4 times or 400% greater that can turn into a lot of user power. The machine learning can accelerate tasks by an order of magnitude. There are WWDC2020 tech' videos that demonstrate Apple is quite serious about gpu power to give good gpu power in all Macs. Including the Mini. And that a great amount of that effort will be in efficient. So it may have the raw grunt of a eg. 2060 Nividia...but it will hit harder because of greater efficiency. Maybe it can process that workload 4x 'faster' because of the efficiency...in workflow and games. It's not just about general monolithic grunt.

We're no longer going to get generic gpus on our Macs. Or Nvidia gpus. But they do serve as a compass for how gpu tech is advancing in general. And what Apple is doing with AS balanced against it.

I'd rather take an iPad style 'feel of optimisation, with sound gaming performance and 4/8k video codec performance (which beats up a Mac Pro...) than the current Mac situation where it doesn't have the leading cpu performance, efficiency or gpu performance. But the prices are certainly 'class' leading.

Azrael.
Thanks Azrael. Always appreciate your well thought out responses!

Perhaps I'm being too pessimistic... (sounds familiar!). Thankfully, it's not a huge worry for someone like myself, who can just about manage with the awful iGPU in the Mac mini. Anything in an AS mini would be 10 times better! We should know more once the MBA/13in MBP/24in iMac are announced later this year with AS SoCs. Exciting times ahead!

What's your plan re 2020 iMac and AS Macs? Run it into the ground, then transition?
 
I think the more competitors in the GPU space the better. (See: Nvidia cpu pricing.)

Mac being the 'creative/work' machine we can see workflow tasks accelerated, perhaps by an order of magnitude. One subtle example is the way that on Apple GPU hardware, the 'biker/cyclist' in the video example could be crop isolated and they had 3x 4k streams ongoing. I do remember one play back review example of the 2019 iMac and its 580 struggling with one smooth 4k stream.

It's not just raw numbers and grunt (though it will have plenty of that...) it's efficiency. Try sucking a McDonald's smooth through a thin straw? No matter how much 'blow' (no jokes, please...) you have or 'suck' (!) it's never going to be efficient.

The current A12z may, according to a dev, have the power of a 1060. A 'proper' AS Mac may have the power of a 2060 (I'd take that in a Mac Mini...and would have bought one at that plus a monitor of my choice...) but if the efficiency is x4 times or 400% greater that can turn into a lot of user power. The machine learning can accelerate tasks by an order of magnitude. There are WWDC2020 tech' videos that demonstrate Apple is quite serious about gpu power to give good gpu power in all Macs. Including the Mini. And that a great amount of that effort will be in efficiency. So it may have the raw grunt of a eg. 2060 Nividia...but it will hit harder because of greater efficiency. Maybe it can process that workload 4x 'faster' because of the efficiency...in workflow and games. It's not just about general monolithic grunt.

We're no longer going to get generic gpus on our Macs. Or Nvidia gpus. But they do serve as a compass for how gpu tech is advancing in general. And what Apple is doing with AS balanced against it.

I'd rather take an iPad style 'feel of optimisation, with sound gaming performance and 4/8k video codec performance (which beats up a Mac Pro...) than the current Mac situation where it doesn't have the leading cpu performance, efficiency or gpu performance. But the prices are certainly 'class' leading.

I grew rather tired of Macs having 2nd rate gaming with a 2nd rate graphic API with 2nd rate devs or creative app devs porting feature bi-passed examples of their best sell apps. That would probably explain why I didn't buy Macs that often. That and the high prices for such fare.

This last legacy iMac is a worthy flag ship iMac. But I won't pretend (just because I bought one...) that everything in the garden is rosey. It wasn't and isn't. iStale design. And one sodding fan.

Azrael.
Do you think that they 're going to support eGPUs after the AS transition?
Now they have the AMD drivers built in and update them at some point with the OS, what will happen later? No drivers no more eGPUs?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Azrael9
Funny, watching the teardown vid and seeing that big empty space inside, I thought the same thing - a custom vent/hole with some DIY cooling. Will have to see how my BTO performs when I've got it rendering out 4k or 8k 360 footage (but I think I already know what's gonna happen...)

Well. You're in luck.

Max Tech' has some benches were video encoding VCN1 for the Navi1 gpu has optimisations of upto x3 times faster.

As in my 'long' post above. An example of efficiency. Ergo the system doesn't have to get as hot or blow the fan as much if its more capable.

Azrael.
 
Do you think that they 're going to support eGPUs after the AS transition?
Now they have the AMD drivers built in and update them at some point with the OS, what will happen later? No drivers no more eGPUs?

I don't see any reason why not. It's ultimately bout bringing 50-100% better performance and order of magnitude workflows to the base Mac unit. Instead of HAVING to outsource your graphics to an eGPU because the Intel iGPU is crap. Or the AMD gpu is last year's unit.

You'll get 'THIS YEAR'S' Apple gpu when it launches. I should imagine you'll still be able to add eGPU, external SSDs etc. But the base units won't be 2nd class citizens anymore. You'll have great base performance in exotic new form factors that you can 'dock' to eGPUs to further boost its potency.

It's about AS Macs being 'true' to themselves. As long as the base unit Mac is better than the base unit Intel/iGPU/AMD in terms of cpu/gpu/machine learning (and the zillion other co-processors Apple will add to improve sound and image editing...or colour efficiency for pro work flows...or video encoding...these all add up to a superior experience...)

That AS Mac vs a Generic Dell PC is going to be a non-contest by the time this transition is over.

Sure. A 16 cpu AMD and an Ampere 3090 Ti are going to appear impressive on paper.

But what if an iPad can encode 4k or 8k as smooth as butter? What if an Apple GPU can make your general video produciton workflow x2 faster in terms of editing or seeing 3-5 4k edit windows playing back as smooth as butter with no stutter? Or a Mac Mini AS that can play Lara Croft as smooth as butter with all effects on? No dropped frames? Or that same mini brings leading edge Maya 3D work to the consumer?

You look at the PS5 and the level of democratisation it's going to bring to the 'average' at home...on my tv screen gamer. Ray tracing. In the living room on a 50 inch tv. I used to dream of real time Ray Tracing. Your average home user is going to get ray tracing before Macs. The suppose leading edge creative machine. *(Yeah, we all know Apple will offer the RDNA2 on iMac Pro only. They have no shame.)*

Versus a pokey 24-27 HD-2440p inch monitor with the counter strike crowd obsessed with fps.

*shrugs.*

You can keep your Ampere (you'll be bending over to the tune of £1200, at least...and that's before the rest of the PC gamOR system...and monitor...) if I can get RDNA2 class gpu performance in a console on my 50 inch TV for £399.

Apple will charge you ten-12 times more to get RDNA2 performance when they bung a 'Pro' version of one in the iMac Pro this November.

Azrael.
 
  • Like
Reactions: filmak
Thanks Azrael. Always appreciate your well thought out responses!

Perhaps I'm being too pessimistic... (sounds familiar!). Thankfully, it's not a huge worry for someone like myself, who can just about manage with the awful iGPU in the Mac mini. Anything in an AS mini would be 10 times better! We should know more once the MBA/13in MBP/24in iMac are announced later this year with AS SoCs. Exciting times ahead!

What's your plan re 2020 iMac and AS Macs? Run it into the ground, then transition?

Hello gusping,

I'm as cynical as anyone... ('Really Azrael? We always had you done as the optimistic mills and boon hard core Apple anglela lansbury romantic...')

But I look at the 'captive' demos of the WWDC2020 and it blew me away. All done in a beta AS Mac Mini. If they'd released that AS Mac Mini for £499...do you think I'd have gone for this £3400 iMac?

ANYTHING! Is going to be an improvement. Apple's consumer Macs...are mediocre. I don't want to say 'crap' because I've long admired the Mac Mini (in private...you don't think I'm going to say that in public as a matter of record, do you? I'm not completely crazy...) so with a 6 core, SSD...and 16 gigs of Ram...that's a decent entry Mac. But no GPU? Not even options for laptop style 5300 and 5500XT pro versions? Come on, Apple.

The one great thing about AS. Apple owns it. They'll put some effort into it. When you own it you have more pride. You work harder. Think about how frustrating it must be trying to do gravity defying Macs when Intel are HOT 14++++++ and AMD are on the canvas with their GPU offerings?

See the iPhone. I'm bored of phones. But the latest ipHones are works of art. Evolved masterpieces. Putting an A14 in it is frightening. The iPad is probably the best product Apple does. It's immense. Star Trek tech'. Put an A14x in there? It will drag my legacy Intel iMac around teh bed room.

There are exciting times ahead.


You will have the option of eGPU your Mac Mini with an RDNA2 in November. Your machine would be quite the beast..>??!??! And you can bootcamp it for PC gamOR stuff. If I had your Mac Mini that's what I'd do. Only another month or two for that.

Azrael.
 
Last edited:
Thanks Azrael. Always appreciate your well thought out responses!

What's your plan re 2020 iMac and AS Macs? Run it into the ground, then transition?

Thank you. ;)

My plan.

If I was you? RDNA2 eGPU. BOOM!!! That will come sooner than the AS Mac Mini.

For me? I have the option of running this legacy iMac into the ground.

By then, (3 years?) any AS16 will (kick the intestines transparent out of any Mac av' now...) be about offer order of magnitude workflows that this simply won't match in Video, GPU, workflow optimisation on Apple specific apps. The sheer promise of what devs (from the phone/pad) will bring to the AS Macs in innovation and creative Apps. eg. I'd love to use Procreate vs the ancient Painter 2020...or have a quick game of Monument Valley.

The consumer Macs are inbound to offer 50-100% greater performance. And then the Pro' Macs with AS will come and they have bury the Pro Macs with Intel in by as much to get people to buy. I aint buying any AS Mac for 15% more or equal perf'.

If they come out with that 32 inch re-designed iMac by next fall...I may find my legs starting to buckle... With the 'high end' AS chip in it.

Note: when that happens. I can still run this as a 10 core iMac or 10 core PC. A 5700xt 16 gig VRAM gpu on Mac or PC. 4k gaming isn't going mainstream until the PS5/Xbox hit tens of millions of sales AT least. More like 40-60 million units.

And it will take a while for those 4k PC gpus to hit the mainstream and sell the mainstream.

So HD gaming with high fps is safe for another year or so. Which means I've got at least two years and 2 Mac OS upgrades before I begin to worry about obsolescence on the horizon.

Short answer. I'll use this until it drops. I'll have to use it 7 years to get the £500 per year run rate. :)

Azrael.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: gusping
Speaking of which. What is the cheapest way to get Win 10 Pro for Bootcamp on my iMac?

Azrael.
 
Speaking of which. What is the cheapest way to get Win 10 Pro for Bootcamp on my iMac?

Azrael.

Simply download it from the Microsoft website. You can use it legally, but without activating it you cannot personalize it. That's fine with me, as I only use it for occasional gaming and testing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Azrael9
I wasn't talking about COVID drop, I was talking about the drop when they announced delays + WWDC + firing the chief etc.

And I did research, some people are not able to see when history is being written and thats ok. We can revisit this conversation in 2 years time.
Not pounding my chest, just can see the huge opportunity for Apple and the missed opportunity for Intel. Simple as that.
If you can't see it thats fine but make sure to remember me when it happens :D :D :D


When Intel was killing it ten years ago with Core Duo, everyone thought AMD was done. Intel will come out of this.

ARM is not the be all end all of the microprocessor design. Have you looked into the debate with RISC-V vs ARM? NVIDIA is using RISC-V based controllers in its GPU design.

Will AMD/Intel move from CISC to RISC design? Probably not but who knows what ideas they are cooking up in advancing the CISC architecture to compete with ARM. Whatever changes they will make to the future architecture won't happen independently as there are too many interests involved.

i.e. one of AMD's initiatives - https://www.tomshardware.com/news/a...k0XrllUxWkVQseUyiSNCYaXSmqxFdhVu8Z_7mEDSbCKUA

As for the Intel shares, have you looked at their share price trend since when it first listed in 1980? Just about every company's share has tanked since mid-March due to COVID, intel is no different. With exception to Tesla, they killed it!!!

Too many posts on here remind of Chicken Little's the sky is falling. Do some sound research before pounding your chest.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.