Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[Mr. Warbles]

I’ve got to say after a week of use this i7 8 Core 2020 iMac with 1 TB SSD is the best machine I’ve ever had...this is my 3rd iMac.

by the way things sounded on some of these boards I expected fans to be blaring, system over heating and RAM issues. I almost bought an iMac Pro because of those complaints...so glad I didn’t.

The other night I was Rendering in Adobe After Effects, editing files in Photoshop, mail, Safari, Spotify, and recording tracks in Logic Pro X (With several powerful plugins running). No fans ever kicked on and the chassis wasn’t even warm. This is by far the coolest running iMac I’ve ever owned. Haven’t heard the fans yet and probably won’t since that’s about as hard as I’ll push it. Added 64 GB of RAM with 2 Samsung 32GB sticks...no issues, running full strength.

Is it mostly gamers getting these hot machines?

another thing, for my uses I have no issues with Catalina. Coming from High Sierra it seems like a big improvement for me.

I‘m one satisfied iMac owner!

 

[CWallace]

I think it is mostly one's sensitivity to noise as well as ambient quietness in one's location.

I never hear my fans on my 2017 until they are north of 2000 RPM, yet others can hear them at the default 1200 RPM. I live next to a major Interstate and I usually keep my window open so I expect that plays a role as my room is never "silent" so the fans disappear into the general noise floor.

 

[Mr. Warbles]

I think it is mostly one's sensitivity to noise as well as ambient quietness in one's location.

I never hear my fans on my 2017 until they are north of 2000 RPM, yet others can hear them at the default 1200 RPM. I live next to a major Interstate and I usually keep my window open so I expect that plays a role as my room is never "silent" so the fans disappear into the general noise floor.

I live in a quiet suburban neighborhood and I’m in a soundproof recording studio. Zero noise from this iMac.

 

[Homy]

Report: Apple Silicon iMac With Custom GPU to Launch in Second Half of 2021

Apple will debut a powerful custom-designed graphics procesing unit in its first Arm-based iMac which is set to launch in the second half of next...

www.macrumors.com

A12Z has already "better performance and more energy efficiency than the Intel GPU". That shouldn't be the goal. Apple must aim at the best GPU in the current iMac or it won't look good. Right now A12Z scores as good as Radeon Pro 450 from 2016. Of course it's better than Radeon 6750M in my 2011 iMac and they can optimize Mac SoC better but they still have a long way to the top. Even if they double the GPU performance of A12Z with A14Z it still can't reach the score of Vega 20 in iMac 21.5".

Mac Mini Intel(R) HD Graphics 630 Metal score 3757
iMac 21.5" Intel(R) Iris(TM) Plus Graphics 640 Metal score 4929
MBP 13" Intel(R) Iris(TM) Plus Graphics 645 Metal score 5481
AMD Radeon Pro 450 Metal score 10215
iPad Pro 11" A12Z Metal score 10244
AMD Radeon Pro 560X Metal score 17586
AMD Radeon Pro Vega 20 Metal score 24535
iMac 27" AMD Radeon Pro 5700XT Metal score 74768

 

[DrRadon]

What interests me is that Apple is giving this new GPU it's own name

They need to. If it's just a flops number thats not apple. And if it's just "one chip for everything" you loose the option of upselling on both gpu and cpu.
For the rumoured 12 inch MacBook they don't need to. But for the higher end stuff you want some branding to marked. Just check on all the RDNA1 and RDNA2 talk we had here by people that probably never read to much into the name beyond "one of them = newer = better".

 

[jazzer15]

Question about ordering. I placed an order last Friday and expected delivery said (and still says when I check my order) September 22-29. Today I looked at the website and the same confirguration ordered today says delivery September 16-23. Any reason to think my order won't be updated with the earlier delivery date?

 

[Moonjumper]

Random question - does anyone have a user-friendly frame-rate program for their Macs? I want to compare my 2014 machine (4 Ghz Quad Core i7 + R9 M295X 4 GB) against my 2020 (3.6 Ghz 10 Core i9 + Radeon 5700 XT 16 GB.

One other quick question - do you all ever use two iMacs? Now that I have two machines sitting on my desk, I'm finding myself strangely more productive. I always assumed it was a dorky thing to have a couple PCs, but now I see myself being more productive in the traditional business sense.

When I get a new iMac, I want to use my existing one for the 32-bit software that has me keeping it on Mojave. I might get Luna Display so it can be a second monitor for my new iMac, but able to be used independently when needed. I don't have my second screen on all the time, so I might find myself strangely productive.

 

[subink]

Question about ordering. I placed an order last Friday and expected delivery said (and still says when I check my order) September 22-29. Today I looked at the website and the same confirguration ordered today says delivery September 16-23. Any reason to think my order won't be updated with the earlier delivery date?

Mine was listed 4-9 September all the time. Until Saturday when status changed to shipped and expected delivery was set at 3 September. I can imagine the predicted delivery time frame is stored in the order and not updated to actual delivery times until your item actually ships.

 

[jazzer15]

Mine was listed 4-9 September all the time. Until Saturday when status changed to shipped and expected delivery was set at 3 September. I can imagine the predicted delivery time frame is stored in the order and not updated to actual delivery times until your item actually ships.

Thanks. Good to know. I'll have to just assume that mine will be processed and shipped ahead of those who order now.

 

[PaulpBenitti]

The mini has no dGPU, isn't this a problem? The integrated one is not very good...

I would just get an eGPU, so no, not an issue at all. But the eGPU isn't needed for running the displays.

 

[filmak]

I would just get an eGPU, so no, not an issue at all. But the eGPU isn't needed for running the displays.

An eGPU will never replace a good internal one. It is not so beneficial as you think and it is limited by the TB bandwidth.
Also if you try to connect one or two 4k displays to the mini you will see by yourself what is the problem.

 

[iPadified]

A12Z has already "better performance and more energy efficiency than the Intel GPU". That shouldn't be the goal. Apple must aim at the best GPU in the current iMac or it won't look good. Right now A12Z scores as good as Radeon Pro 450 from 2016. Of course it's better than Radeon 6750M in my 2011 iMac and they can optimize Mac SoC better but they still have a long way to the top. Even if they double the GPU performance of A12Z with A14Z it still can't reach the score of Vega 20 in iMac 21.5".

Mac Mini Intel(R) HD Graphics 630 Metal score 3757
iMac 21.5" Intel(R) Iris(TM) Plus Graphics 640 Metal score 4929
MBP 13" Intel(R) Iris(TM) Plus Graphics 645 Metal score 5481
AMD Radeon Pro 450 Metal score 10215
iPad Pro 11" A12Z Metal score 10244
AMD Radeon Pro 560X Metal score 17586
AMD Radeon Pro Vega 20 Metal score 24535
iMac 27" AMD Radeon Pro 5700XT Metal score 74768

Interesting comparisons. The GPU capabilities has always been the question of AS. Vega 20 seems reachable. A12Z runs as 8-10W. A node shrink and a higher TDP and we are there. I cannot understand why Apple cannot put 24 GPU cores on AS instead of the eight that is has now. Someone estimated the GPU power draw to be 0.5W per core, that would be 8W more. I think an iMac and even and MPBP13 can handle a 16W SoC quite well. There has also been some discussions about some rapid large caches for the GPU that the A12Z do not have which also helps a lot.

Remember that AS has dedicated coprocessor for some traditional GPU bound tasks so perhaps the GPU does not need to be super powerful.

5700XT replacement is like better done with dedicated GPU to not bloat the SoC.

 

[iDomDotCom]

If you work on medium to high light environment...i suggest to take the nano-texture..if not...since the imac is for in-doors product, you should avoid it
I would place nano-texture for portable machines...its fantastic

What about the nano-texture is fantastic? Do you notice an overall difference in clarity?

 

[jazzer15]

Mine was listed 4-9 September all the time. Until Saturday when status changed to shipped and expected delivery was set at 3 September. I can imagine the predicted delivery time frame is stored in the order and not updated to actual delivery times until your item actually ships.

I guess I got my answer. I ordered on August 28 and just received an email saying it shipped with a September 10 estimated delivery, more than 2 weeks earlier than the earliest date originally estimated (September 22). I'm not complaining, just surprised.

 

[PaulpBenitti]

An eGPU will never replace a good internal one. It is not so beneficial as you think and it is limited by the TB bandwidth.
Also if you try to connect one or two 4k displays to the mini you will see by yourself what is the problem.

The mini doesn't have a good internal one. That's the entire point.

The Mini can handle 3 4K displays on the Intel card alone.

And eGPU's are a gigantic improvement over internal Intel cards. TB bandwidth is not a problem at all.

Where TB bandwidth becomes a limiting factor is trying to compare top end graphics cards of the same kind in internal vs. external tests. Obviously, an internal card is going to perform a little better ( a little, not a lot ) than the same card in a TB enclosure. That's not the concern here. People don't use eGPUs to improve upon the already good performance of a discrete internal card. They use them for machines like the Mac mini, where there is no discrete card, and an eGPU provides 4-5x the performance of the Intel card. The same machine compared to iMac with a discrete card performs almost as well. Almost. That is is more than good enough.

 

[filmak]

The Mini can handle 3 4K displays on the Intel card alone.

I theory yes, but in practice... there's lag, stuttering, glitches, search it a bit please...
i.e.

Officially giving up on the Mac Mini 2018 + 4K monitor dream

Myself and others have found not insignificant lag/glitches for basic desktop operations (i.e. dragging a window around) when using 2 scaled displays with the mini. I find it hard to believe you don't have the same issues - do you just live with the lag?

forums.macrumors.com

and many others in Google.
And yes TB bandwidth is a problem.
eGPU in general is just a patch.

Anyway, whatever it works for you is fine, but having a not so great experience with the mini's iGPU and its limitations is a negative point.
If you have no demanding uses or any problem with this weak iGPU then it's fine and wish you all the best...

 

[Homy]

Interesting comparisons. The GPU capabilities has always been the question of AS. Vega 20 seems reachable. A12Z runs as 8-10W. A node shrink and a higher TDP and we are there. I cannot understand why Apple cannot put 24 GPU cores on AS instead of the eight that is has now. Someone estimated the GPU power draw to be 0.5W per core, that would be 8W more. I think an iMac and even and MPBP13 can handle a 16W SoC quite well. There has also been some discussions about some rapid large caches for the GPU that the A12Z do not have which also helps a lot.

Remember that AS has dedicated coprocessor for some traditional GPU bound tasks so perhaps the GPU does not need to be super powerful.

5700XT replacement is like better done with dedicated GPU to not bloat the SoC.

I got the numbers from https://browser.geekbench.com/metal-benchmarks but according to Barefeats Intel(R) Iris(TM) Plus Graphics 645 is faster than A12Z with a Metal score of 10519 vs. 10244. I don't know why Barefeats shows double the performance but in that case that's even worse than I thought for A12Z. The point of comparing to Radeon Pro 450 was of course to show that A12Z is as slow as a dGPU from 2016. I really hope Apple doesn't play cheap and puts those 24 CUs/GPU cores on AS.

 

[CWallace]

Speaking of GPUs, nVidia just threw down the gauntlet to AMD with the new 3000 series.

 

[FredT2]

I’ve got to say after a week of use this i7 8 Core 2020 iMac with 1 TB SSD is the best machine I’ve ever had...this is my 3rd iMac.

by the way things sounded on some of these boards I expected fans to be blaring, system over heating and RAM issues. I almost bought an iMac Pro because of those complaints...so glad I didn’t.

The other night I was Rendering in Adobe After Effects, editing files in Photoshop, mail, Safari, Spotify, and recording tracks in Logic Pro X (With several powerful plugins running). No fans ever kicked on and the chassis wasn’t even warm. This is by far the coolest running iMac I’ve ever owned. Haven’t heard the fans yet and probably won’t since that’s about as hard as I’ll push it. Added 64 GB of RAM with 2 Samsung 32GB sticks...no issues, running full strength.

Is it mostly gamers getting these hot machines?

another thing, for my uses I have no issues with Catalina. Coming from High Sierra it seems like a big improvement for me.

I‘m one satisfied iMac owner!

Try running Handbrake. You will quickly get the fans going full blast. However, that's the only thing so far that has gotten them going. As for sound at idle, some people can hear it, some not. I can, and it's roughly the same as the 2014 I had. Slightly louder than my iMac Pro, but not something that bothers me.

 

[Homy]

Speaking of GPUs, nVidia just threw down the gauntlet to AMD with the new 3000 series.

and to Apple. The bar is set very high for AS.

 

[CWallace]

...and to Apple. The bar is set very high for AS.

I don't think Apple much cares what NVidia (and soon, AMD) does as there is (will be) pretty much zero-overlap between them in the market.

You won't see Apple GPUs ("Lifuka") in Windows gaming PCs, gaming consoles or non-Apple data-centers.

 

[DrRadon]

One other quick question - do you all ever use two iMacs? Now that I have two machines sitting on my desk, I'm finding myself strangely more productive. I always assumed it was a dorky thing to have a couple PCs, but now I see myself being more productive in the traditional business sense.

You probably focus more on one thing now that the tasks are divided. You could do the same with one machine but that needs a little bit of structure and willpower not to have open multiple tasks at once. There is some crazy magic in this realization, multitasking is one of the most destructive things hyped as something good and valued.

 

[Alwis]

One other quick question - do you all ever use two iMacs?

Yes, I have a 2010 and 2014 iMac on my desk, the older one mainly for monitoring some things. As soon as the 2020 arrives I will retire the 2010 and replace it with the 2014. It is easier to have a quick lock to the second iMac than to switch the virtual desktop (which I use a lot)

 

[Homy]

I don't think Apple much cares what NVidia (and soon, AMD) does as there is (will be) pretty much zero-overlap between them in the market.

You won't see Apple GPUs ("Lifuka") in Windows gaming PCs, gaming consoles or non-Apple data-centers.

Well, maybe not much Nvidia but AS iMac will be directly compared to the previous AMD iMac and its GPU performance and Apple can not simply ignore that comparison because the customers and reviewers certainly won't. What Apple's competitors are capable of surely impacts Apple's prestige. On the other hand since they're more of a phone company now they could just ignore their computer customer base and their needs, like they have before.

 

[Freida]

If they ignore their computer base then I will leave them all together. I don't want great phone, I want great eco system and the Mac is the most important part of that. Remove that and I will just get pissed off and leave them.
I'm sure there will be tons of people like me.

Well, maybe not much Nvidia but AS iMac will be directly compared to the previous AMD iMac and its GPU performance and Apple can not simply ignore that comparison because the customers and reviewers certainly won't. What Apple's competitors are capable of surely impacts Apple's prestige. On the other hand since they're more of a phone company now they could just ignore their computer customer base and their needs, like they have before.