Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[iPadified]

Except FaceID and camera, none of this is useful on an iMac. I don't see why running iPadOS on a Mac would be useful. It would be a serious downgrade, especially for developers. What they need to bring is Xcode to iPadOS, not the Mac I don't see any usecase iPadOS running at the same time as macOS would be useful. Developers already have access to the best emulator software in the world within Xcode.

A window with iPadOS and pencil support would be useful for note taking, drawing etc, tutoring. There are other people on Earth than developers, you know, and they have other needs. I think my 12.9 inch iPad is too small sometimes so a large screen drawing pad would be great. I cannot leave MacOS due to some software. I am not alone to be in that situation.

If xcode is coming to iPadOS, do you really think MacOS exist in 10 years time? iPadOS is in its infancy and can develop into whatever is needed to replace MacOS.
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Exactly. And project Catalyst is specifically here for this.

I can see your point with "convergence" between OSes. But I think the Mac should keep the most powerful version of macOS. iPad is fine with iPadOS. Having a touch device using it's own adapted OS is fine to me.

I think we talk mainly about the same thing here but uses different names for it. A future iPadOS will have more in common with MacOS than iOS.

 

[pldelisle]

Aye. Catalyst being the monica for that.

It's convergence. The rest of the (forgettable) details will be foot notes in history.

Apple have already shown a willingness for each device to have its own 'OS' that plays to the strength of each 'monitor' size and input method.

Whether we'll see 'Mac OS' deprecated to some lobotomised vegetable remains to be seen. A lockbox turn key software solution..? We can't rule out a software revolution. Or some deprecation to move the platform forward in more exciting ways.

I doubt it, though. We'll see it much like the transition to the new Apple File System.

But it being on ARM opens the door for a clear out, efficiency, new design paradigms and even 'touch.' With the pointer capability on iOS iPad now...it maybe hints at where future ARM Macs might go. 'Touch.' Apple pencil on an iMac Mac ARM screen? (We have 'touch' it on track pads...)

I suspect the 'iMac' and 'iPad' will have much more in common in a few years.

Azrael.

Yeah maybe.
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A window with iPadOS and pencil support would be useful for note taking, drawing etc, tutoring. There are other people on Earth than developers, you know, and they have other needs. I think my 12.9 inch iPad is too small sometimes so a large screen drawing pad would be great. I cannot leave MacOS due to some software. I am not alone to be in that situation.

If xcode is coming to iPadOS, do you really think MacOS exist in 10 years time? iPadOS is in its infancy and can develop into whatever is needed to replace MacOS.
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I think we talk mainly about the same thing here but uses different names for it. A future iPadOS will have more in common with MacOS than iOS.

The cost to put a touch, mini-LED display with pencil capability on a 27-32 inch iMac would be gargantuesque at best. Not sure I would like to actually work "on" a 32-inch computer just like the Microsoft one. But artists might like.

Sure, iPadOS is still pretty young. But there is still a lot to implement to make it become macOS. And macOS is without any doubt running on Apple A-chip in Cupertino. It's always been compiled to run on Apple A-chip for sure, just like macOS 10.0 was running on Intel software back in the days. The entire software architecture of macOS can be compiled on whatever platform you want today.

I think the effort to bring iPadOS to the actual level of macOS is a lot bigger than simply dropping macOS on Apple A-chip. As a software engineer, I don't see the point/motivation of doing this. They even both run the same kernel and file system underneath. I might be wrong, we don't know the long term planning of what's in the head of Craig. macOS is fine. It's memory hungry, need a bit of polishing, but fine. We just need a headless macOS, a pure Darwin version without GUI. But that's another story. And pretty sure the day they drop it on A-chip, there's a lot of garbage in macOS that will vanish. A lot of backward compatibility things, deprecated libs, updated and stabilized frameworks. The whole thing will be a lot more stable, lightweight.

 

[iPadified]

Apart from the new design (I want it too...) don't you think that the "real" new iMac will be there next year when there will probably be the historic transition to ARM chips?

Quite possibly. Let developers have a dual boot platform for a year to create software.

 

[wba1990]

Really want an iMac, had a MacBook Air back in 2014 roughly, but that stopped working about 18 months ago, since then purely been using my iPad Pro which is fine, but can be limited at times. For that reason happy to wait for the next iMac or redesign before jumping, just hopefully it’s sooner than later

 

[pldelisle]

had a MacBook Air back in 2014 roughly, but that stopped working about 18 months ago,

Sad These were the most reliable MBA ever made. My girlfriend has one, it's indestructible, even 6 years after.

 

[iPadified]

Yeah maybe.
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The cost to put a touch, mini-LED display with pencil capability on a 27-32 inch iMac would be gargantuesque at best.

Sure, iPadOS is still pretty young. But there is still a lot to implement to make it become macOS. And macOS is without any doubt running on Apple A-chip in Cupertino. It's always been compiled to run on Apple A-chip for sure, just like macOS 10.0 was running on Intel software back in the days. The entire software architecture of macOS can be compiled on whatever platform you want today.

I think the effort to bring iPadOS to the actual level of macOS is a lot bigger than simply dropping macOS on Apple A-chip. macOS is fine. It's memory hungry, need a bit of polishing, but fine. We just need a headless macOS, a pure Darwin version without GUI. But that's another story.

MacOS is fine, I agree, but is it modern, lean and efficient? Being memory hungry suggest not. I think the A14X will not be sufficient with MacOS it as they are for mobile fan less devices. They should and need to develop 15-75W Apple chips.

Who is MacOS for really? The average office user, the artist, the videographer? A bet most of these never need anything else than an iPadOS that has been improved with a decent Finder and apps in windows and the same versions of professional software that exist on MacOS. I could just as well run iPadOS if a good CAD program existed as well as some scientific software - and a big screen device with windows handling of apps.

Interesting reaction caused by some dreaming before dinner time. You can be perfectly at rest, Apple will not do anything remotely like that.

 

[CWallace]

Were there *any* leaks about the new Mac Pro design before it was released? I don't remember. Could this be a similar case where an iMac redesign makes it to release without any substantial leaks?

The physical design and dimensions of neither the 2013 nor 2019 Mac Pro's leaked prior to their public unveiling at WWDC, but in both cases, the models were not put into production until well after they were shown so there was no supply chain to leak the design as Apple was able to control access to the prototype cases.

The iMac Pro was kind of leaked before it was shown at WWDC in that it was reported the 2017 iMac would now be available in Space Grey as well as the traditional Silver and that it would have four TB3/USB-C ports and a larger fan exhaust. So I believe someone saw prototype cases being produced within the supply chain and assumed it was the new 27" iMac 5K and not a new model within the family.

If the 2020 iMac family are ready for imminent release, then the supply chain has been making parts for them for months now. So there may have been leaks about a new case size between the 21.5" and 27" and since the most obvious panel option is the LG 23.7" 4K model that is what is driving the rumors of a new ~24" model. The fact that said panel is non-Retina may also be driving the rumors that this will be a "lower cost" iMac, as making a new Retina 23.7" panel would be more expensive than the existing Retina 21.5" panel (though LG might very well be making a Retina ~24" panel and this iMac will be more expensive than the 21.5" iMac 4K).

This is also why I do not believe there will be an iMac with a screen larger than 27" - we should have leaks of such a case.

Apart from the new design (I want it too...) don't you think that the "real" new iMac will be there next year when there will probably be the historic transition to ARM chips?

The 15" MBP and the iMac were the first two models to move to Intel from PowerPC. ARM's biggest advantage at launch is significantly better battery life, which is why I believe that the portables will migrate to ARM first and then the desktops will follow.

So my "money" in on the 13" MacBook Air going ARM first with a significantly less-likely possibility that the MBA stays on Intel and Apple instead brings back the 12" MacBook with ARM (and hopefully a second USB-C port).

 

[pldelisle]

MacOS is fine, I agree, but is it modern, lean and efficient? Being memory hungry suggest not.

It's modern. It has a brand new file system. Apple bring new convenient features every year. Is Microsoft doing the same ? I don't follow Microsoft as I follow Apple, but every time I boot a Windows machine, it's always de same sh**

They should and need to develop 15-75W Apple chips.

Totally agree. They need to scale out in frequency and number of cores, especially on the GPU portion of the SoC. This will likely need active cooling. but again, pretty easy to construct low power hardware for specific use cases. Absolute control is the way to make great things fast while requiring the lowest amount of power.

Who is MacOS for really? The average office user, the artist, the videographer? A bet most of these never need anything else than an iPadOS that has been improved with a decent Finder and apps in windows and the same versions of professional software that exist on MacOS. I could just as well run iPadOS if a good CAD program existed as well as some scientific software - and a big screen device with windows handling of apps.

iPad is still not capable enough for running this. And these softwares likely have a lot of legacy stuff in them. Porting them to ARM, especially when you talk about rendering something, is next to impossible without starting from a blank page. And this cost a freaking lot of money. Keep in mind OpenGL is still the most used (I think) rendering API on macOS for these kind of softwares and it's been deprecated by Apple last year ... ! This is asking a lot of effort to port rendering engine to Metal, and very few developers are willing to do it. I wish there would be a lot more software using Metal for rendering. It's so easy to use, performant and in perfect harmony with the hardware. But this take time, effort and developers to do it correctly.

 

[NewUsername]

Just wondering: could the T2 chip theoretically run iPadOS and/or iPad apps already?

If not, couldn't Apple just put an A14 in the iMac and call it a T3 chip? The OS and the standard apps, as well as iPad apps, could then run on the T3, and the Intel processor would be activated only when you run third-party Intel apps (which aren't ported to ARM and are probably the more processor intensive ones) or if you run Windows.

This would be a win for everyone, except that they would have to fit two processors in one computer — but they kind of do that already with Intel and a T2 chip — and that this wouldn't decrease the price of your Mac…

Just some thoughts from someone who doesn't know anything about technology. ?

 

[pldelisle]

Just wondering: could the T2 chip theoretically run iPadOS and/or iPad apps already?

Good question. Further research on the included logic into this chip is required to answer this. I don't know if it's a full ARM CPU supporting full ARM instruction sets.

 

[Icaras]

I personally hate the idea of 'iMac Air'. What the hell is nice in having mobile hardware in a desktop form factor ? No way. Apple is better than this, even for a low end segment.

I wouldn’t take the moniker “Air” seriously in the literal sense. To me, I think it just means the consumer level, non education, tier.

If we apply this to the iMac, I can see the 21.5” remaining as the educational budget model, and the new 23” with the 27” being the “Air” models, or whatever they’ll call it, and then the 27”/32” for the Pros. I can see the Air models retaining their thinness, or getting even thinner, however while the Pros won’t get thinner and more may have room for thickening the chassis.

 

[pldelisle]

I'm not for a multiplication of the lineups.

Remember Steve's four quadrants ? I'm still for it.

 

[scotttnz]

OK, so this could go in the iMac Pro couldn't it?

AMD-announced-Radeon-Pr

 

[Voyageur]

Just wondering: could the T2 chip theoretically run iPadOS and/or iPad apps already?

No, it cannot. The architecture of this co-compressor is not designed for this. It serves for decoding, encryption and control management, for example, SSD.
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OK, so this could go in the iMac Pro couldn't it?

AMD-announced-Radeon-Pr

This is an analogue of Vega II from Mac Pro, the same expensive and heavy. Unlikely in my opinion.

 

[macpro2000]

BTW No more iMacs in the Refub store (US).

 

[pldelisle]

BTW No more iMacs in the Refub store (US).

No iMac, only one iMac Pro in Canada.

 

[CWallace]

Just wondering: could the T2 chip theoretically run iPadOS and/or iPad apps already? If not, couldn't Apple just put an A14 in the iMac and call it a T3 chip?

The T-Series are, I believe, independent CPUs running their own OS because they need to be able to operate independently of the system OS and system CPU to validate the latter.

 

[gusping]

BTW No more iMacs in the Refub store (US).

It's happening boys!

I'm still praying for next week. I need a new piece of hardware to keep me going. It's like a drug. I need at least one good rumour (Kuo, Prosser, etc) or exciting Apple announcement a week.

 

[pldelisle]

The T-Series are, I believe, independent CPUs running their own OS because they need to be able to operate independently of the system OS and system CPU to validate the latter.

I have already read that Darwin knows how to use the T2 chip.

 

[Phil77354]

I'm using my 27" iMac (late 2014) for teleworking now and basically satisfied - but a second monitor would be great.

However before investing in that second monitor I'd sure like to know if a 32" iMac is on the horizon . . . if that were the case then my plans would be quite different . . .

AND - I would sure like to be able to purchase a separate monitor that would match the iMac so that I could have the iMac and a second monitor side-by-side and they would look like the were intended to sit next to each other!

 

[Icaras]

I'm not for a multiplication of the lineups.

Remember Steve's four quadrants ? I'm still for it.

Sorry to tell you, but that ship has sailed. A long time ago.

 

[iPadified]

It's modern. It has a brand new file system. Apple bring new convenient features every year. Is Microsoft doing the same ? I don't follow Microsoft as I follow Apple, but every time I boot a Windows machine, it's always de same sh**



Totally agree. They need to scale out in frequency and number of cores, especially on the GPU portion of the SoC. This will likely need active cooling. but again, pretty easy to construct low power hardware for specific use cases. Absolute control is the way to make great things fast while requiring the lowest amount of power.



iPad is still not capable enough for running this. And these softwares likely have a lot of legacy stuff in them. Porting them to ARM, especially when you talk about rendering something, is next to impossible without starting from a blank page. And this cost a freaking lot of money. Keep in mind OpenGL is still the most used (I think) rendering API on macOS for these kind of softwares and it's been deprecated by Apple last year ... ! This is asking a lot of effort to port rendering engine to Metal, and very few developers are willing to do it. I wish there would be a lot more software using Metal for rendering. It's so easy to use, performant and in perfect harmony with the hardware. But this take time, effort and developers to do it correctly.

Supporting legacy stuff seem to be the proof of a non modern and lean OS. I know the situation of the OpenGL mess in MacOS as I do 3D modelling. Therefore, I think Intel Macs and MacOS will not be going anywhere for a foreseeable time but iPadOS will be more MacOS like over time and at some point may replace it when 3:rd party software has been rewritten. We likely talk in a 20 years perspective. Sometime a large spring cleaning is needed and many softwares were conceived 30 years so it is time.

 

[Manfredi]

BTW No more iMacs in the Refub store (US).

no more in Italy too.....

 

[Migranya]

Today, Twitter user @l0vetodream talked about the next iPad. I took the opportunity to ask him about the iMac.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1261205776367939584

 

[gusping]

Today, Twitter user @l0vetodream talked about the next iPad. I took the opportunity to ask him about the iMac.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1261205776367939584

Interesting, thanks for asking. It still doesn’t allow us to infer much about whether next week is a possibility, or in fact it will be WWDC after all.

The wait continues...