Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[Fernandez21]

If Apple is getting early pass access to RDNA2...then there's every possibility we'll see iMac/iMac Pro both launched at WWDC. Will they stay as is? Or consolidate the line? (I'd be quite happy with the latter to give consumers a more refined iMac experience.)

True. Not long to wait.

2021. Given it's taken a year to get RDNA1 on a mainstream desktop Mac....and we're still waiting. But with RDNA2 on 'early access' this could change. 'Typical' Apple says we'll wait another year for RDNA2. My hope says 'early access' means teh Apple cart is up ended and all bets are off.

It depends on what 'substantial' means. A few moving parts of RDNA2 for Sep' launch with 'early' access to RDNA2 for Apple(?), LED rumours, 23 inch iMac rumours..., 'substantial', 'ready'...snippets of different things. The Intel CPU having just launched. Lots of things going on there.

Which way is the right way? Said Alice.

Azrael.
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Ye-ah...but Apple are going to have to do 'something.'

It's what happens when you are stuck with one vendor. Both Intel cpus and AMD gpus have had heat issues. Both AMD cpus and Nivida gpus have had better efficiency.

Or when you design things a certain way. Eg. Too thin or not sufficient cooling. Design choices can limit specs and contribute to problems like paying more for comparatively under performing parts. Instead of offering the Mac Pro case to all desktops and democratising the desktop line up in terms of value, parts, cpu, gpu choices. These are choices Apple's desktop has made. And it's up to consumers to go along with it or not... Which certainly limits when I can buy them or seeking the 'best' time to buy them.

But don't let politics get in the way of the best deal for the consumer, right Tim?

It's either underclock/volt them (...not that Apple would ever do such a thing...) or put in better cooling. Or both.

The Mac Pro with the right choice of 8 core 65 watt parts with the 'right' AMD Radeon would be 'just fine' in a 'Can.' It could have just been a 'xMac.' And priced accordingly. It would give more lattitude for 8 cores and a dGPU than that 'mini.' But the 'Can' is over. Dead. I sometimes wonder what Apple was/is thinking...

Azrael.
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You and me both. It won't be the 1st time Apple have issued a 'non' update. Or a side grade for a gpu. Or been stuck on '4' cores for a while...and we eventually got 6 (and 8) cores last year. If they're keeping prices the same (can you see them doing a price cut? then I'd like far more value from from ram, ssd, gpu and cpu.

Any non-design side grade and you may as well buy last year's model in the sale.

My feeling is this year's model has more opportunities to be more substantial. And until it's announced, and reading the 'tea leaves' so far...I'll keep hoping.

Azrael.

Yup, not expecting a price cut, but maybe lower pricing for SSD storage upgrades. I just want to get a 2tb ssd, i9 and their highest GPU upgrade for around $3,000. I could get that system now with i9, 1tb SSD, and Vega 48 for $3,150 BTO.

Anything beyond that would be gravy (hoping for new GPU's at the same price points)

 

[A_ardvark]

My wife has been using my 15 inch MacBook Pro for work, alternating with me. She just asked me why the T key doesn’t work. I’m done. I got the key working again, but I’m not doing this keyboard nonsense. How do I sell it and when is the new iMac supposed to drop? Soon I hope.

 

[AAtte]

I would love this RDNA2 thing! And I would also be willing to wait for a bit longer for that. Also pay more. I’m Macless atm, using my work computer for must do stuff. So life is a bit sad now.

 

[yunuzzz]

Guys. I found something on the internet. What do you think?

未発表のRadeon Pro GPUが4つ発見 iMac向けのGPUか 21.5インチでもvRAM 8GBが？ - Nishiki-Hub

錦です。 _rogame氏が未発表のRadeon Proプロセッサをリークしています。

translate.google.com.tr

Also tweets:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264160851365376001

 

[CWallace]

It's what happens when you are stuck with one vendor. Both Intel cpus and AMD gpus have had heat issues. Both AMD cpus and Nivida gpus have had better efficiency.

But don't let politics get in the way of the best deal for the consumer, right Tim?

One could argue that if AMD and Nvidia really wanted the business, they could make a solid business case for Apple adopting them, but maybe Lisa (Su) and Jensen (Huang) are letting politics get in the way of the "best deal" for the consumer...

 

[Tekguy0]

It is unfortunate to see that they are still shipping an old design. Would be nice to see Ice Lake in an iMac, 28W/45W perhaps? Eliminate all spinning storage, and it would run cool and quiet. Get rid of the bezels and chin, and it would be a fine machine, for people who don't need heavy GPU work, though Iris is quite capable.

 

[CWallace]

Yup, not expecting a price cut, but maybe lower pricing for SSD storage upgrades.

I think that is a given based on what we have seen with the rest of the Mac line. I think 256GB SSDs will be deleted and replaced with 512GB for the 1TB and 1TB Fusion Drive models for the same price ($100/$200). I would love to see the $2299 5K iMac drop the 2TB Fusion Drive for the 512GB SSD, but it might stick with the 2TB FD with a 1TB SSD being a $100 upgrade (instead of the current $300).

Guys. I found something on the internet. What do you think?

Tracks with my suggestions that we could see the mobile Navi 10 5000 series in the iMac and the desktop Navi 10 5000 series in the iMac Pro.

It is unfortunate to see that they are still shipping an old design. Would be nice to see Ice Lake in an iMac, 28W/45W perhaps? Eliminate all spinning storage, and it would run cool and quiet. Get rid of the bezels and chin, and it would be a fine machine, for people who don't need heavy GPU work, though Iris is quite capable.

Ice Lake just isn't really meant for desktops (it's a low-power mobile chip, which is why the 2020 MacBook Air has it).

The 28W model could arguably be appropriate for something like the Intel NUC in a slightly larger AppleTV 4K case, but that is not a market Apple has ever been interested in.

 

[potatis]

Not sure if it was posted, but this 27" screen could fit in the iMac (Pro), however no 5k or mass production yet: https://www.gizchina.com/2020/04/03/boe-to-unveil-new-27-inch-4k-hdr-display-with-mini-led/

 

[CWallace]

Not sure if it was posted, but this 27" screen could fit in the iMac (Pro), however no 5k or mass production yet: https://www.gizchina.com/2020/04/03/boe-to-unveil-new-27-inch-4k-hdr-display-with-mini-led/

BOE is an Apple supplier (they will be making OLED panels for at least one of the iPhone 12 models) so they could be a source for miniLED panels for Macs, though it would have to be a 5K panel since 4K at 27" is not anywhere near Retina.

 

[Voyageur]

Ugh this wait sucks.

 

[DrRadon]

Guys. I found something on the internet. What do you think?

未発表のRadeon Pro GPUが4つ発見 iMac向けのGPUか 21.5インチでもvRAM 8GBが？ - Nishiki-Hub

錦です。 _rogame氏が未発表のRadeon Proプロセッサをリークしています。

translate.google.com.tr

Also tweets:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1264160851365376001

That workstation card has remote workstation functionality. That sounds pretty cool.

 

[Homy]

To make things harder RDNA2 is coming in September according to new rumors.

 

[gusping]

Tracks with my suggestions that we could see the mobile Navi 10 5000 series in the iMac and the desktop Navi 10 5000 series in the iMac Pro.

Navi 10 5000 series being the current GPUs in the 16in MBPs? Surely they wouldn’t be put in the upcoming iMacs too? Or is Navi 10 the next gen low-mid end name and navi 10 the so-called big navi?

 

[askunk]

Guys. I found something on the internet. What do you think?

The Radeon Pro is the W5700, not the 5700 and does not come (at the moment) in the XT version. Kinda strange but if it were true it would be fine to me if they ended up in the new iMacs.

 

[CWallace]

Navi 10 5000 series being the current GPUs in the 16in MBPs? Surely they wouldn’t be put in the upcoming iMacs too? Or is Navi 10 the next gen low-mid end name and navi 10 the so-called big navi?

The MacBook Pro's are on Navi 14, which is 85W (5300M and 5500M).

The Radeon Pro 580 in the iMac is 150W TDP, which would match the Navi 10 5600M. The 5700M is a 180W part, but it might work. (Note: Apple might be under clocking all these cards so they might not be pulling rated TDP.)

The 5700XT is a 225W part and not sure what the Vega 56 and 64 were pulling in the iMac Pro, but in desktop form it was 210W and 295W, respectively, so 5700XT should be no problem for an iMac Pro.

 

[Fernandez21]

The MacBook Pro's are on Navi 14, which is 85W (5300M and 5500M).

The Radeon Pro 580 in the iMac is 150W TDP, which would match the Navi 10 5600M. The 5700M is a 180W part, but it might work. (Note: Apple might be under clocking all these cards so they might not be pulling rated TDP.)

The 5700XT is a 225W part and not sure what the Vega 56 and 64 were pulling in the iMac Pro, but in desktop form it was 210W and 295W, respectively, so 5700XT should be no problem for an iMac Pro.

What about the Vega48 in the iMac?

 

[CWallace]

What about the Vega48 in the iMac?

Never been able to find a reference to it, but somewhere between the 100W of the Vega20 and 210W of the Vega 56. I would guess in the 150-180W range.

 

[gusping]

The MacBook Pro's are on Navi 14, which is 85W (5300M and 5500M).

The Radeon Pro 580 in the iMac is 150W TDP, which would match the Navi 10 5600M. The 5700M is a 180W part, but it might work. (Note: Apple might be under clocking all these cards so they might not be pulling rated TDP.)

The 5700XT is a 225W part and not sure what the Vega 56 and 64 were pulling in the iMac Pro, but in desktop form it was 210W and 295W, respectively, so 5700XT should be no problem for an iMac Pro.

Thank you for explaining.

A lower clocked 5700M could work, or even a lower closer 5700XT if they want to use the desktop GPU name.

 

[iPadified]

Thank you for explaining.

A lower clocked 5700M could work, or even a lower closer 5700XT if they want to use the desktop GPU name.

Discussion of power draw is easier to relate to than "desktop" and "mobile". I agree with CWallace, iMP should cool a 10900K and 5700XT combination sufficiently well. Start with the iMP. Then: smaller bezels, abandon HDD in the 27 inch, start SSD at 1 TB, better camera, FaceID, perhaps shrink the case slightly to compensate for smaller bezels, perhaps thicken it slightly and use numerous and decorative XDR screen vents. All of a sudden it looks modern. I want mine in white, not silver or the space gray. There should be a choice between 10900k (125W) and 10900 (65W) for those who like a cooler running machine.

I hope we do not need to wait until autumn for a new iMac...

 

[STC1709]

Already made up my mind. If its just a spec bump im not buying it and will ride my early 2009 imac for another year with my 2012 mbp as backup. Not going to pay for a design thats been in place for 8 years. To make matters worse the 2019 doesnt even ship standard with ssd!!!!! Will they do the same crap again if its a spec bump? Who knows and i dont care unless its an overhaul.

 

[DrRadon]

Already made up my mind. If its just a spec bump im not buying it and will ride my early 2009 imac for another year with my 2012 mbp as backup. Not going to pay for a design thats been in place for 8 years. To make matters worse the 2019 doesnt even ship standard with ssd!!!!! Will they do the same crap again if its a spec bump? Who knows and i dont care unless its an overhaul.

You do realize that you dont have to buy the fusion drive version? I don't celebrate that it still exists either, but how in anyones sane mind is that a reason not to buy one with SSD?

Theres not going to be a new design this year. Get over it. New Design comes with ARM and MiniLED next year.

 

[Voyageur]

New Design comes with ARM and MiniLED next year.

ARM will not be the main decision on the iMac for a long time, especially on the Pro.

 

[sublunar]

The MacBook Pro's are on Navi 14, which is 85W (5300M and 5500M).

The Radeon Pro 580 in the iMac is 150W TDP, which would match the Navi 10 5600M. The 5700M is a 180W part, but it might work. (Note: Apple might be under clocking all these cards so they might not be pulling rated TDP.)

The 5700XT is a 225W part and not sure what the Vega 56 and 64 were pulling in the iMac Pro, but in desktop form it was 210W and 295W, respectively, so 5700XT should be no problem for an iMac Pro.

Apple's MO suggests they would use a lower power version they would name Radeon Pro 5700M to fit their thermal requirements in a product that requires it.

Any mention of XTs would surely be driver support for when people use an eGPU enclosure and fit the full PC Graphics card.

 

[gusping]

Apple's MO suggests they would use a lower power version they would name Radeon Pro 5700M to fit their thermal requirements in a product that requires it.

Any mention of XTs would surely be driver support for when people use an eGPU enclosure and fit the full PC Graphics card.

I thought Macs already support the 5700 XT via eGPU. Is that not true? If not, god damn Apple are slow.

 

[Azrael9]

One could argue that if AMD and Nvidia really wanted the business, they could make a solid business case for Apple adopting them, but maybe Lisa (Su) and Jensen (Huang) are letting politics get in the way of the "best deal" for the consumer...

They already have in the market place. Nvidia are in everything. It's just Apple that can't strike a deal with them. *nods head slowly.

AMD have gpus with Apple but can't strike a deal with the same company on cpus which are cheaper, more efficient and more powerful cpus that offer the customer far better value. *nods head slowly.

Apple are 'happy' with under performing, inefficient parts that they apply over performing margins on.

Apple used to be put customers 1st under Jobs. Now it's profits, shareholders and customers. In that order.

Azrael.
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I thought Macs already support the 5700 XT via eGPU. Is that not true? If not, god damn Apple are slow.

I think the 5700XT is supported.

Try 'Barefeats.com' to find out.

Benches of iMac with and without eGPU support there.

Azrael.
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You do realize that you dont have to buy the fusion drive version? I don't celebrate that it still exists either, but how in anyones sane mind is that a reason not to buy one with SSD?

Theres not going to be a new design this year. Get over it. New Design comes with ARM and MiniLED next year.

I think we all realise that we can play hopscotch and PAY BTO for something that should be standard.

But it's still a joke that the Fusion drive is 'standard' in a machine that costs £1700-£3560. And that the 'fusion' ssd part of that is a tiny what? 32 gigs (I, at least, got the 128 gig partition before they disgracefully downgraded that with little fanfare. A 'feat' that more than sums up Cook's Apple.) of which is insulting further compounding the erronious nature of the Fusion drive being in a Mac all these years (ten, count 'em...) later.

As for the re-design. You might be correct. I wouldn't put it past them in light of the above paragraph. IF Fusion drives are still around...why bother with a redesign. Why bother with anything? Afterall, people will still keep buying them as they are...

...right?

Azrael.
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I thought Macs already support the 5700 XT via eGPU. Is that not true? If not, god damn Apple are slow.

Why has it taken them a year to put a 5700XT (RDNA1) part in a Mac desktop.

Very sleepy, Apple.

Meanwhile, over at HP (you know those lowly PC companies that Jobs used to mock ad hominem...) they have a 2080 GPU in their 32 inch 4k AiO that blows the iMac's GPU out the water.

Azrael.
[automerge]1590333516[/automerge]

Already made up my mind. If its just a spec bump im not buying it and will ride my early 2009 imac for another year with my 2012 mbp as backup. Not going to pay for a design thats been in place for 8 years. To make matters worse the 2019 doesnt even ship standard with ssd!!!!! Will they do the same crap again if its a spec bump? Who knows and i dont care unless its an overhaul.

I understand that sentiment.

The Mac desktop line up is a car crash in specs and value.

It's not like in PC land where you can pretty much go out at any time and spec up what you want. We know when something is out of date in Apple land and then you're left hanging waiting for Apple to support a spec and package it for the market.

I'd like a redesign minor or otherwise. But this is Cook's Apple. Not Steve's. And 'pipeline' is more boast than reality. We only have to see what's been released this year to get a picture of what's coming for the iMac.

Brace yourself.

I'll have to 'buy' this time, design or otherwise. It's not like Apple have a decent tower priced at £1500-£3k like it used to with a degree of flexibility. From my point of view it's iMac or bust. But it's the start of me going dual platform with my workflow. I'll go for a PC tower alongside it.

Azrael.