Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[CWallace]

Considering WWDC is a virtual conference this year, on the one hand I have to ask if there is any real benefit to announce new hardware at the Keynote since there will be no opportunity to do a hands-on in the SJT afterwards?

Apple does hold non-SJT hardware launch events in Cupertino and New York to allow the tech press to get hands-on time so they in theory could stream the WWDC keynote at those locations and then afterwards allow the press to see and touch the new toys, but I am guessing COVID-10 restrictions would not allow that.

So the only other option would be to send devices directly to the media and influencers to allow them to play with it before the keynote and then keep them under NDA until a certain time afterwards to post their reviews.

 

[krell100]

I think that makes sense; promotion and marketing is largely online anyway and social media would be their primary channel so a 'soft launch' just cuts out the hands-on bit, can't really see any major downside to that.

 

[DrRadon]

With all due respect, I sincerely hope you are wrong about no redesign. The mini-LED rumors all point to the iMac Pro, not the consumer iMac, so I don’t see the correlation here. I am inclined to believe that the ”alleged” March keynote was meant to unveil that new design, but instead COVID has pushed Apple’s time tables back a bit. WWDC now seems like the perfect opportunity to revisit that unveil, and with more fanfare.

I get that all the rumors from various leakers and tech news sites are all corroborating around the same notion that the new iMac is near, but unfortunately Prosser’s words gave people false hope. “Ready to ship” can mean literally anything based on interpretation. It could mean tomorrow, or it could mean in December. I have always felt that Gurman’s initial “second half of 2020” comment (or very near that anyway) was the most realistic scenario to begin with because it at least gave us a rough time frame, rather than “any day now”.

Actually Prosser both said that MiniLED will be a switch for all the machines (makes sense if you think about the 14 inch MBP and the 24 inch iMac rumours) and he also pointed out that "Ready to Ship" usually means the product will be out ASAP, just that this time it got delayed due to corona. He stated "Apples Timeline got disrupted", if that is because supply chains dried up or if it is because the wanted to hold a live event but could not, we do not know. - His statements do absolutely not suggest December, second half of the year or 2025 even if you want to make it "up for interpretation". According to him there is a new iMac, it was supposed to be released in March, it is sitting in warehouses ready to be sold right now.

Marc Gurmans second half of 2020 comment was geared towards the switch to MiniLED wich has been "Pushed into 2021" according to several leakers. Wich again, due to the new display technology strongly suggests that there will be a redesign and new screen sizes. Like the MBP 14 inch wich already did not make it past the 13 inch specs bump 27 days ago.

Got my fingers crossed for Wednesday still, not that i was going to buy RAM at Apple, but holy ****... doubling the already high RAM prices is one of those moves that i strongly dislike Apple for.
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Considering WWDC is a virtual conference this year, on the one hand I have to ask if there is any real benefit to announce new hardware at the Keynote since there will be no opportunity to do a hands-on in the SJT afterwards?

Apple does hold non-SJT hardware launch events in Cupertino and New York to allow the tech press to get hands-on time so they in theory could stream the WWDC keynote at those locations and then afterwards allow the press to see and touch the new toys, but I am guessing COVID-10 restrictions would not allow that.

So the only other option would be to send devices directly to the media and influencers to allow them to play with it before the keynote and then keep them under NDA until a certain time afterwards to post their reviews.

They do send out review copies. I know for a fact that "The Verge" is among the sites that get early access to be able to push reviews to customers fast. If you want people playing with toys they are just one NDA away, and some of the people on youtube are literally releasing videos begging or crying about not being "invited for coffee" and put on that "early access" and "apple events" list. It's nothing new to Apples marketing. They just use it very restricted.

 

[high heaven]

I think the iMac Pro sits nicely between iMac and MP. It is a nice little tidy and powerful package for those who need it. I think it is surprising that 18 core iMac Pro is less than 2 fold lower in CPU performance than an 28-core MP. It is the graphics that stands out in the MP and not all fill the machine with Vega Duo cards. I would not be surprised if the iMac Pro remains in the lineup but I agree, it is squeezed. If you also want an all Apple setup, the MP comes with an associated cost of $5000-$7000 for the XDR screen making it less squeezed.

Furthermore, we do not know what is happening with the iMac. We assume/want that it will use high end parts (125W i9 and a 5700XT) with iMac Pro cooling but we do not know that. An iMac using low power parts that satisfies the home and office use would leave room for an iMac Pro with miniLED and beefed up everything else for video production and MP for real high end applications. It is however questionable if there are customers enough to sustain two "Pro" lines.

I wish Apple stopped using "Pro" as label as it is confused with profession and professional. "Pro" just means more powerful and reliable components. Most of us do work (=Pro) using "i5/i7/i9" illustrating how out of step the "Pro" labels is.

I def hate iMac Pro. All in one workstation itself is extremely rare and not even common for the pro world.

 

[ssong]

Given all that’s happening in the US rn I’m not too sure there will be any announcements or if WWDC will start as expected.

 

[DrRadon]

Given all that’s happening in the US rn I’m not too sure there will be any announcements or if WWDC will start as expected.

Why would it not?

 

[ssong]

Why would it not?

Same reason Google postponed the Android 11 event... wouldn’t seem like the right TPO. Also the relative ease of postponing given it’s all online this year. Depends on how the next 2 weeks go but if the situation in the US continue I could see some changes to scheduling.

 

[DrRadon]

Same reason Google postponed the Android 11 event... wouldn’t seem like the right TPO. Also the relative ease of postponing given it’s all online this year. Depends on how the next 2 weeks go but if the situation in the US continue I could see some changes to scheduling.

Mmmmh, interesting. I did not know that happened. To be honest i don't see a reason to postpone a global release or a coding event. It's perfect stay at home stuff no matter if you are avoiding a global pandemic or protests/riots.

 

[iPadified]

Agreed, which might explain why we are seeing such large deals on the current model (up to $1500 off list for the base model).

Ahh, to live in country where there are good deals on Apple products. No chance here.

 

[iPadified]

Considering WWDC is a virtual conference this year, on the one hand I have to ask if there is any real benefit to announce new hardware at the Keynote since there will be no opportunity to do a hands-on in the SJT afterwards?

Apple does hold non-SJT hardware launch events in Cupertino and New York to allow the tech press to get hands-on time so they in theory could stream the WWDC keynote at those locations and then afterwards allow the press to see and touch the new toys, but I am guessing COVID-10 restrictions would not allow that.

So the only other option would be to send devices directly to the media and influencers to allow them to play with it before the keynote and then keep them under NDA until a certain time afterwards to post their reviews.

Redesign does not need to be linked to a WWDC. I think a hardware March event was planned and then everything was delayed due to COVID-19 and Intel. WWDC is already "full" of OSs and if an ARM Mac makes an appearance an old Intel based Mac is less interesting for developers even if it has a redesign.

Regarding hands-on. Apple Stores are now open and it would be easy to invite a few journalists to the local store for a review or early hands-on after a WWDC video presentation. If there is a major redesign, people want to see the new iMac in real life. The more stores that are open the better it is.

There is lots of confusion what a redesign means and i think we use it differently. External case redesig is the looks of the case. The cases can then have a redesign internally for better cooling. A case with a given internal design can then have several versions of motherboards harbouring different GPU/CPU as long as the motherboards have the same basic layout. Similarly the case can accommodate different screen technologies. To me components such as CPU, GPU, screen tech etc have nothing to do with a redesign, it is only a snapshot of components that are fitted into a given design.
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I def hate iMac Pro. All in one workstation itself is extremely rare and not even common for the pro world.

AIOs are rare in any segment. "Hate" - I assume you mean you do not see the point or are you really emotional about the existence of iMac Pro? Tip; do not buy one.

 

[gusping]

Ahh, to live in country where there are good deals on Apple products. No chance here.

Must be nice. There are never ever deals on Apple products here in the UK

 

[Azrael9]

Guys, can you help me out, please?
I know what might be coming to iMac in terms of GPU (5700 or 5700XT hopefully) which is RDNA1 - I get that. I also know that RDNA2 which is much better is coming around september.
Now, my question is - I'm starting to consider iMac Pro instead of iMac (pending comparision when out) and I wonder - what are the successors to Vega 64, please?

I'm trying to see what the iMac Pro can get as I'm sure it will be different to iMac and to be honest, the naming is all over the place for me.
I used to be up to date with these things years ago but now I'm a bit out on details.
Maybe my buddy @Azrael9 might know, please? Or anyone else?

Of course it will depends on what Apple shows us but looking at the specs now the iMac Pro is only about $1500CAD more expensive +- if I consider what I want to get so that might not be that much and in return I get server grade CPUs, better cooling etc.

I don't know, I'm debating as I'm bored and iMac is still far away

Hello Freida

AMD CDNA Architecture Based Arcturus GPU 'Radeon Instinct' Test Board Spotted - 120 CUs With 7680 Cores, 1200 MHz HBM2 Clock, 878 MHz GPU Clock

AMD's Arcturus GPU 'Radeon Instinct' which will feature the CDNA architecture and aim the server market has been spotted, featuring 120 CUs.

wccftech.com

*(see slide below...)

https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/AMD-Radeon-Roadmap-2020_2-1030x579.png

It has been rumoured that AMD are going 'Gaming' vs 'Compute' (think iMac vs iMac Pro...)

The Radeon Vega and Vega VII were perhaps 'good' at gaming and 'excellent' at compute. (From what I'd seen of the Nvidia mainstream cards, 'Excellent' at gaming and 'good' at compute.)

It's been muted by the rumours that AMD Radeon are going this route for this 'next generation' of cards. So 'Big Navi' is the 'gaming' card optimised for that. And Arcturis is the 'compute' card specialising in that arena. Radeon has done well in compute so it makes sense they'll keep specialising in that. This has implications (possibly for the iMac Pro...) and even more likely for the Mac Pro.

So it really depends on what kind of creative work you are doing and wish to do. I think the iMac Pro was, in some ways, a 'brave' machine by Apple (though it could be accused of being the path of least resistance to mask their 6 year Mac Pro debacle of incompetence...) But it's a sound machine. And any upgrade (compared to the Mac Pro) would be enticing to those that want 'that bit more' than the iMac can offer. My only argument with the iMac Pro is that it is 3 years out of date and really, it's starting price should be more like £3k. (That's what's it's worth now, in my view. Tops. 8 cores. Pretty standard. GPUS now midrange at best. And the sound system being 'better' is ironic as they downgraded the iMac 27 incher 'tear drop' speakers from those in the 24 inch iMac...and the base wasn't as good in my view, either...)

The key to the iMac's (Or iMac Pro's) value is to lose the monitor (£1k value?) and see what you have left for the price being charged. Clearly the current models are old rope for today's money.

Back to your question.

If you want to game. I'm sure any RDNA1 card will deliver whilst STILL offering good compute performance that rivals that of the 'current' iMac Pro Vega 64/56. In the context of current iMacs, a substantial boost. eg. 5600-5700s as standard would make the rx580 seem very old hat. Add that to SSDs, more ram and 8 cores. The value of the current iMac improves greatly....but only in terms of bringing them up to date.

The real action? Is the imminent launch of the PS5. Why? Because RDNA2(?) and Ray Tracing come to that...and that means it's probably coming to an iMac Pro later this year. When you get 'that' level of performance whether it's good at gaming or compute is probably largely academic. It will be light year's ahead of what's in the iMac or iMac Pro. Any RDNA1 update to the iMac will be eclipsed dramatically by an iMac Pro with RDNA2.

My argument is that Apple should give the lower RDNA2 stack to the iMac (to bring it up to date and back to the future...) and have the higher stack for the iMac Pro. So they both have cutting edge performance.

And then it's a case of letting your wallet decide on the value case of a £1700-£3560 vs a £5k plus machine.

Hope that helps somewhat.

The value proposition. The proof will be in the pudding. And whether we can see what the iMac offers (be happy with that...?) and whether those with machines already, want to wait to see what the iMac Pro offers before pulling the trigger. Only then can we decide if the iMac Pro is worth the extra £1500. (But that £1500 could go towards buying a whole other machine, PC or Mac to cut the 'cake' (workload) in two.)

Azrael.
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Must be nice. There are never ever deals on Apple products here in the UK

No kidding.

Vary rarely, though I did get my 24 inch iMac in a sale. (£1200-ish I think it was...and I plumped for some extra ram at the time...)

Azrael.
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Must be nice. There are never ever deals on Apple products here in the UK

No kidding.

Vary rarely, though I did get my 24 inch iMac in a sale. (£1200-ish I think it was...and I plumped for some extra ram at the time...)

Azrael.

iMacs only get loud when pushed, which isn't a problem for most basic computing/office tasks, but if you want to play a demanding game or application such as 3D rendering then, yeah, they get loud. And it makes sense, there's really not a lot of scope to cool the internals in the current design. Especially with higher-end Intel chipsets like the i9. It's only by throttling the chip back and sacrificing ultimate performance that Apple can get away with it at all really.

True. But they're going to get pushed when the specs improve and they occupy the former mainstream 'Mac Pro' price territory of £1500-£3k-ish.

And they should be able to hack it without 'jetting off to hairdryer' land.

It all adds up to doing something substantial in design and/or cooling. At the least, drop the iMac pro's cooling in there.

Otherwise we're paying for components that will be down clocked and thermally throttled.

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

I def hate iMac Pro. All in one workstation itself is extremely rare and not even common for the pro world.

'Hmmm...'

If you're saying you'd like a rationally priced mainstream tower Mac Pro in the £1500-£3k+ ish range.

I'd agree. I'm hoping I don't have to join the dark side for that...

That said, yesterday's workstation is today's AiO, laptop or iPad, all of which can out perform my G4 Tower (yes, I have one and it still works...) And Apple 'cheaply' uses the term 'Pro' on phones and ipads.. 'Workstation' is a temporal definition of 'now.' It's relative to the sun. If you make a living from it or being creative or productive? It's a 'work' 'station.'

Azrael.
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Mmmmh, interesting. I did not know that happened. To be honest i don't see a reason to postpone a global release or a coding event. It's perfect stay at home stuff no matter if you are avoiding a global pandemic or protests/riots.

Well, they'd presumably booked in guests, planned for physical people attending. That got torn up.

So they had to replan based on tele-conference/streaming video. Logistics will probably be different.

Regardless, they pushed it back.

And Apple being Apple, they want to do it well. So they pushed it back, re-planned around the 'different' context of a virtual show (with all the tech' difficulties that will imply...) and perhaps are tying it up with 'more' readily finished software and hardware products. They will have had a month extra...and have a bit more to show.

That can (hopefully) be a good thing.

Azrael.
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Considering WWDC is a virtual conference this year, on the one hand I have to ask if there is any real benefit to announce new hardware at the Keynote since there will be no opportunity to do a hands-on in the SJT afterwards?

Apple does hold non-SJT hardware launch events in Cupertino and New York to allow the tech press to get hands-on time so they in theory could stream the WWDC keynote at those locations and then afterwards allow the press to see and touch the new toys, but I am guessing COVID-10 restrictions would not allow that.

So the only other option would be to send devices directly to the media and influencers to allow them to play with it before the keynote and then keep them under NDA until a certain time afterwards to post their reviews.

Always. It's in Apple's DNA to make a 'show' of new hardware if the 'update' is significant in design, change of direction etc.

I don't see that changing with WWDC being online. As I'm not a developer I've only experienced it online...so them making a fuss over new hardware is part of the buzz of eg. WWDC 2020. 'Will they...won't they....and will it blow our socks off?!'

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

I don't see this at all. The functionality doesn't change because there is a different processor. Touching a monitor in front of you is still not good ergonomically. Your arm still gets tired. It is the hardware form factor and the OS that differentiates iOS/iPadOS from macOS, not the difference between Arm and Intel.

The only item that isn't touch is the Mac. All the rest of iOS is. And when 'Mac' joins iOS ('Son of Mac') on 'ARM' the inevitable will happen.

It isn't. And yet? We have an iPad on the 'z' stand...with Apple charging you £300 for being 'uncomfortable.' (And following M$'s lead on the 'Surface' line...it appears....as the iPad begins life as a pseudo laptop with mouse pointer support...)

Just another reason to have 'gorilla arm' if you're a guy...

Azrael.
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For the life of me I don't even hear a whisper from my 2019 iMac. Of course it is only an I5 3.7 GHz model. And I really don't push it hard so maybe I am speaking out of turn here.

YOu haven't heard a whisper out of it?!

Have you turned it on?

Azrael.
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I imagine this will be port less as Apple is said to go heavily in that direction with pure the first pure Port-less iPhone entering the line-up this year already.

Like they Keyboard is.
Like the second gen Pen is loading just by being magnetically attached (i believe).
Like Prosser said that constantly charging over Wifi is the end goal of of their wireless charging development.

Maybe all the Apps are automatically downloaded to the Stand as well - so the connection between iPad and eComputer basically AirPlay (3?) with additional "User Command Input" when you are at home. You could actually move around your house and benefit from this additional power. Sort of like Playstation Remote Play is already offering. Maybe even better by, rather than just sending video, you could send the finished computing and still have the iPads GPU do the final visualization of the Data. When it's all Apple that might dance together without a cable connected.

I would just have it attach magnetically somehow. In that second you could also start charging via Magnetic attachment like the Pen dos. Maybe it's a electronic magnet, so you have to move it in a specific way so it dos not fall of. Also comes with a battery, so if you accidentally unplug it sets it self down without breaking or is at least able to stillhold the device.


I'll call this iPad Home.

Obviously it's replacing MacMini. Further iterating that we will just get spec bumps on current hardware.

What I like about the HP AiO, the 'stand' has wireless charging... (Hey, Apple, didja see dat?)

Azrael.

 

[ssong]

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Well, they'd presumably booked in guests, planned for physical people attending. That got torn up.

So they had to replan based on tele-conference/streaming video. Logistics will probably be different.

Regardless, they pushed it back.

And Apple being Apple, they want to do it well. So they pushed it back, re-planned around the 'different' context of a virtual show (with all the tech' difficulties that will imply...) and perhaps are tying it up with 'more' readily finished software and hardware products. They will have had a month extra...and have a bit more to show.

That can (hopefully) be a good thing.

Azrael.

RE: Googe event that was already scheduled as an online announcement and then got postponed due to the ongoing situation in the US

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266589514937466880

 

[Azrael9]

The i5's have always been considered to be much quieter than the i7's and i9's, though in general reports say the 2019 i9 is quieter then earlier i7 models.

Also, some people are more sensitive to fan RPMs. There are reports where people are surprised at how loud they feel the 1200RPM default speed is while most folks probably don't even notice it. For me, the fans have to be around 2000RPM for me to hear them, which is only when I have all four cores / eight threads pegged on my i7-7700K.

I had seen reports the 2019 iMac was 'quiet' under load (see my link elsewhere in this thread...)

But at least one user has said 'it aint so.'

Does depend on workload. But if the iMac is going to replace a Mac tower (which it has...) then it has to be able to do that workload under load without jet noises.

I well remember my old Athlon with it's fan whine and noise....after hours of that...I was ready to give it the Tom and Jerry Mallet...

...but increasingly so. I've become more sensitive to the 'fan noise.'

For the best part of 7.3 years, I didn't push the iMac beyond creative planning, research and 2D creative work. But as soon as you push it in 3D? The last year fried it retrospect playing some old 2004 game. (That was in Windows partition, maybe thermal management of Windows isn't as good as thermal management in Mac OS.) Either way, the noise was very noticeable under load. The modest specs clearly could cope in that enclosure just as the previous 24 incher iMac couldn't just as the iBook 'blew fans' under load from time to time.

I suppose it's true that the iMac is mostly quiet and serene. All very nice and graceful. But given the demographic pricing it's moved into? It has to be able to handle a workload of 3D rendering or gaming now.

Time for Tim to stop penny pinching the iMac's margins and put decent cooling in there. If the iMac Pro has it the iMac has little excuse.

'Surely you can do better.' *puts on Count Dooku voice to Apple.

Azrael.
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Thank you,

so if we assume that Radeon VII is not happening then what is being released in september from the RDNA2 that we could put inside the iMac Pro? Its called "bigNavi", right? So what is the workstation GPU from that line as I assume it won't be the 5700, right?

The Radeon VII, I think, was AMD Radeon's rebadged workstation card as a hold over gaming card until they could get to RDNA1 and the 5700XT. As such, the RVII ran real hot. AMD were pushing the clocks as best they could. Great compute performance but it was bested by Nvidia's top end on gaming and again with the 'S' versions. It's performance is no disgrace but I doubt that would find it's way into an iMac Pro.

It's very much about the RDNA2 and the increased efficiency for that performance. An arcitechture that gets AMD back in the ring in a big way. Whether it bests Ampere 3080 Ti is of little consequence to Mac users. More important, AMD finally have the potential for a full product stack with offerings not only in high end compute but high end gaming.

That's good news for iMac and iMac Pro users alike.

AMD are behind. But they're catching up real quick. RDNA2 is probably late...but it seems it's launching earlier this year than expected (I thought end of the year...but September is a pleasant surprise...)

Azrael.
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RE: Googe event that was already scheduled as an online announcement and then got postponed due to the ongoing situation in the US

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1266589514937466880

*nods. I see. I'm in the UK but I've been keeping an eye on the current protest and the circumstances that prompted it.

Azrael.

 

[askunk]

In a few days, Sony will introduce the PS5 based on an RDNA2 GPU.

If they are already producing the console, it means AMD is already supplying the first GPUs...

 

[archrider]

The only item that isn't touch is the Mac. All the rest of iOS is. And when 'Mac' joins iOS ('Son of Mac') on 'ARM' the inevitable will happen.

It isn't. And yet? We have an iPad on the 'z' stand...with Apple charging you £300 for being 'uncomfortable.' (And following M$'s lead on the 'Surface' line...it appears....as the iPad begins life as a pseudo laptop with mouse pointer support...)

Just another reason to have 'gorilla arm' if you're a guy...

Azrael.
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YOu haven't heard a whisper out of it?!

Have you turned it on?

Azrael.
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What I like about the HP AiO, the 'stand' has wireless charging... (Hey, Apple, didja see dat?)

Azrael.

I've had it on for the seven months that I've owned it almost continuously and my hearing is pretty good. I also have two desktop gaming PCs, now there's what real noise is like. Oh by the way, I have a 2008 Mac Pro that makes significant noise. The 2019 iMac, it's hard to tell there's a fan in it. The 2 TB Fusion drive, the HDD portion must not get used a lot because I don't hear it.

 

[Azrael9]

In a few days, Sony will introduce the PS5 based on an RDNA2 GPU.

If they are already producing the console, it means AMD is already supplying the first GPUs...

Good call. True. It's going to be a seismic release for Sony. AMD and Sony will be eager to ramp up the PS5 and the RDNA2. They've got their own competitive reasons to 'bring it.'

Should be very exciting. It has implications for everything including future iMac updates.

It's about time for another GPU/SSD/IO through put revolution.

Azrael.

 

[DrRadon]

In a few days, Sony will introduce the PS5 based on an RDNA2 GPU.

If they are already producing the console, it means AMD is already supplying the first GPUs...

The most important information about PS5 is it's backwards combatibelety. If that dos not chopped into pieces now that "PSnow!" also brings full game downloads with it's subscription PS5 is going to rule them all.
It's funny. I just checked on iMac sales, they are actually quite comparable with up to 20+ Million units sold a year. I would not have expected that. But iMac switches hardware in-between, with PS5 i would actually be surprised if they had no dedicated assembly line for absolutely everything on in that console because thats going to pay for itself down the 5-8 years it will be their hardware standard.

 

[Voyageur]

Rocket Lake S next year sounds more like the system that Apple are waiting for - with Thunderbolt 4, twice as fast SSD, and extra PCIe lanes available to truly push 4 Thunderbolt ports out in the hand-me-down iMac Pro case.

The problem is that TB4 can be a simple rebranding to solve problems with the TB3 license and not have a rapid increase. Generally. And this is a real problem, because TB3 already now, if I'm not mistaken, rested on its limit in the issues of eGPU.

Now, my question is - I'm starting to consider iMac Pro instead of iMac (pending comparision when out) and I wonder - what are the successors to Vega 64, please?

Recently, such things are hard to imagine, because Apple ordering with custom GPU cards now. No one could have imagined Vega 48 aboard the iMac 2019 until they showed it.

It has been rumoured that AMD are going 'Gaming' vs 'Compute' (think iMac vs iMac Pro...)
---
The real action? Is the imminent launch of the PS5. Why? Because RDNA2(?) and Ray Tracing come to that...and that means it's probably coming to an iMac Pro later this year. When you get 'that' level of performance whether it's good at gaming or compute is probably largely academic. It will be light year's ahead of what's in the iMac or iMac Pro. Any RDNA1 update to the iMac will be eclipsed dramatically by an iMac Pro with RDNA2.

My argument is that Apple should give the lower RDNA2 stack to the iMac (to bring it up to date and back to the future...) and have the higher stack for the iMac Pro. So they both have cutting edge performance.

Unless it turns out that RDNA and RDNA 2 will receive exactly the consumer iMac, which Apple positions as universal computers for games including, but sticks something like this Arcturus into the iMacPro

 

[Azrael9]

The most important information about PS5 is it's backwards combatibelety. If that dos not chopped into pieces now that "PSnow!" also brings full game downloads with it's subscription PS5 is going to rule them all.
It's funny. I just checked on iMac sales, they are actually quite comparable with up to 20+ Million units sold a year. I would not have expected that. But iMac switches hardware in-between, with PS5 i would actually be surprised if they had no dedicated assembly line for absolutely everything on in that console because thats going to pay for itself down the 5-8 years it will be their hardware standard.

The iMac will catch the PS5. In time.

The Mac installed base is 100 million plus now. If Apple sell 1 million iMacs per quarter than that's 4 million per year. Over 5 years. Yes. 20 million.

Mac sales 5 million per quarter. 20 million a year. That installed based is 200 million in 5 years time. Something like that.

Sony will have the PS5 at full tilt production wise. It's the next big battle.

Even if the PS5 has 'mostly' compatible mode...that will suffice. It will be all about those '38' titles (and counting) to begin with.

Azrael.

 

[DrRadon]

Even if the PS5 has 'mostly' compatible mode...that will suffice. It will be all about those '38' titles (and counting) to begin with.

Azrael.

I am just looking at my pile of shame (aka. unplayed games due to time and just the flood of PS+ on top of that) and would greatly appreciate it if they would still play on new hardware, maybe with a bit faster loading time, a bit quieter fan... and the added option to buy the occasional big release that is not PS4 compatible anymore.
I sort of expect them to reintroduce Last of Us Part 2 this Thursday as a game were you cross buy, so essentially everyone that gets it already owns their first PS5 game. I think i picked up somewhere that every PS4 game released starting either June or July needs to be compatible with both consoles. But yeah, lets not strive to far of topic here. I'll probably not buy it until it's in discounts anyway since i have to many games. (My PS4 really turned into a Netflix player for most month of the year till i got a Apple TV...)

 

[Azrael9]

Unless it turns out that RDNA and RDNA 2 will receive exactly the consumer iMac, which Apple positions as universal computers for games including, but sticks something like this Arcturus into the iMacPro

That's a comment right there. Good suggestion.

Turn the eMac (iMac) into a gaming machine with some compute pedigree.

But save the Arcturis for the iMac Pro update.

Spot on. Good catch, Voyageur.

Azrael.
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I am just looking at my pile of shame (aka. unplayed games due to time and just the flood of PS+ on top of that) and would greatly appreciate it if they would still play on new hardware, maybe with a bit faster loading time, a bit quieter fan... and the added option to buy the occasional big release that is not PS4 compatible anymore.
I sort of expect them to reintroduce Last of Us Part 2 this Thursday as a game were you cross buy, so essentially everyone that gets it already owns their first PS5 game. I think i picked up somewhere that every PS4 game released starting either June or July needs to be compatible with both consoles. But yeah, lets not strive to far of topic here. I'll probably not buy it until it's in discounts anyway since i have to many games. (My PS4 really turned into a Netflix player for most month of the year till i got a Apple TV...)

I think you'll get mostly what you want (Dr. Radon...) with the PS5 (compatible wise...) so you should be ok, bar the odd example.

As for the ATV. A12X to look forward to. Which will be a boon for casual games as the new iMac (eGamer Mac?) rounds out the Apple Arcade game ecosystem?

Azrael.
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The problem is that TB4 can be a simple rebranding to solve problems with the TB3 license and not have a rapid increase. Generally. And this is a real problem, because TB3 already now, if I'm not mistaken, rested on its limit in the issues of eGPU.


Recently, such things are hard to imagine, because Apple ordering with custom GPU cards now. No one could have imagined Vega 48 aboard the iMac 2019 until they showed it.


Unless it turns out that RDNA and RDNA 2 will receive exactly the consumer iMac, which Apple positions as universal computers for games including, but sticks something like this Arcturus into the iMacPro

...and...if the PS5 is getting RDNA2 early...now...ahead of it's reveal and launch...imminently....

...won't 'most favoured' customer, Apple, also have early-ish access to RDNA2 gpus for the iMac...? eGamer reveal muted as early Dec' last year for this year's WWDC2020. And with shipping in mid to late July? That's not far off the September launch for RDNA2.

Thoughts.

Azrael.

 

[Freida]

Thank you. I need GPU that can help in Maya in Viewport 2.0 to move stuff around so I would assume that is more RDNA than CDNA based on what I understood. Not quite sure about the details and how Maya specifically calculates it but seeing that I don't do rendering and its just manipulation I would guess it could be fine with the 'gaming' card.
Maybe someone who knows better Maya could answer that.
Anyway, that RDNA2 does seem like I want nothing else. And if Sony is really about to announce it and it would be slap in the face from Apple if they give us RDNA instead of RDNA2.
In all fairness, why not wait a little longer so we get RDNA2 which has great thermals so thats something that will help with iMac also especially if Intel's 10th gen is an oven

as for iMac or iMac Pro - I just want good value so I will see what they announce and then will evaluate.
The way I look at it is that if iMac Pro will be little more expensive (£1500) but it will give better performance and will last way longer than over the time it might be worth it.
Ideally though, I would love for Apple to drop the price on the base Mac Pro and I would rather get that. Make the entry level more affordable for broader 'prosumers' and call it a day.
Wouldn't that be something

Hello Freida

AMD CDNA Architecture Based Arcturus GPU 'Radeon Instinct' Test Board Spotted - 120 CUs With 7680 Cores, 1200 MHz HBM2 Clock, 878 MHz GPU Clock

AMD's Arcturus GPU 'Radeon Instinct' which will feature the CDNA architecture and aim the server market has been spotted, featuring 120 CUs.

wccftech.com

*(see slide below...)

https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/AMD-Radeon-Roadmap-2020_2-1030x579.png

It has been rumoured that AMD are going 'Gaming' vs 'Compute' (think iMac vs iMac Pro...)

The Radeon Vega and Vega VII were perhaps 'good' at gaming and 'excellent' at compute. (From what I'd seen of the Nvidia mainstream cards, 'Excellent' at gaming and 'good' at compute.)

It's been muted by the rumours that AMD Radeon are going this route for this 'next generation' of cards. So 'Big Navi' is the 'gaming' card optimised for that. And Arcturis is the 'compute' card specialising in that arena. Radeon has done well in compute so it makes sense they'll keep specialising in that. This has implications (possibly for the iMac Pro...) and even more likely for the Mac Pro.

So it really depends on what kind of creative work you are doing and wish to do. I think the iMac Pro was, in some ways, a 'brave' machine by Apple (though it could be accused of being the path of least resistance to mask their 6 year Mac Pro debacle of incompetence...) But it's a sound machine. And any upgrade (compared to the Mac Pro) would be enticing to those that want 'that bit more' than the iMac can offer. My only argument with the iMac Pro is that it is 3 years out of date and really, it's starting price should be more like £3k. (That's what's it's worth now, in my view. Tops. 8 cores. Pretty standard. GPUS now midrange at best. And the sound system being 'better' is ironic as they downgraded the iMac 27 incher 'tear drop' speakers from those in the 24 inch iMac...and the base wasn't as good in my view, either...)

The key to the iMac's (Or iMac Pro's) value is to lose the monitor (£1k value?) and see what you have left for the price being charged. Clearly the current models are old rope for today's money.

Back to your question.

If you want to game. I'm sure any RDNA1 card will deliver whilst STILL offering good compute performance that rivals that of the 'current' iMac Pro Vega 64/56. In the context of current iMacs, a substantial boost. eg. 5600-5700s as standard would make the rx580 seem very old hat. Add that to SSDs, more ram and 8 cores. The value of the current iMac improves greatly....but only in terms of bringing them up to date.

The real action? Is the imminent launch of the PS5. Why? Because RDNA2(?) and Ray Tracing come to that...and that means it's probably coming to an iMac Pro later this year. When you get 'that' level of performance whether it's good at gaming or compute is probably largely academic. It will be light year's ahead of what's in the iMac or iMac Pro. Any RDNA1 update to the iMac will be eclipsed dramatically by an iMac Pro with RDNA2.

My argument is that Apple should give the lower RDNA2 stack to the iMac (to bring it up to date and back to the future...) and have the higher stack for the iMac Pro. So they both have cutting edge performance.

And then it's a case of letting your wallet decide on the value case of a £1700-£3560 vs a £5k plus machine.

Hope that helps somewhat.

The value proposition. The proof will be in the pudding. And whether we can see what the iMac offers (be happy with that...?) and whether those with machines already, want to wait to see what the iMac Pro offers before pulling the trigger. Only then can we decide if the iMac Pro is worth the extra £1500. (But that £1500 could go towards buying a whole other machine, PC or Mac to cut the 'cake' (workload) in two.)

Azrael.
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No kidding.

Vary rarely, though I did get my 24 inch iMac in a sale. (£1200-ish I think it was...and I plumped for some extra ram at the time...)

Azrael.
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No kidding.

Vary rarely, though I did get my 24 inch iMac in a sale. (£1200-ish I think it was...and I plumped for some extra ram at the time...)

Azrael.


True. But they're going to get pushed when the specs improve and they occupy the former mainstream 'Mac Pro' price territory of £1500-£3k-ish.

And they should be able to hack it without 'jetting off to hairdryer' land.

It all adds up to doing something substantial in design and/or cooling. At the least, drop the iMac pro's cooling in there.

Otherwise we're paying for components that will be down clocked and thermally throttled.

Azrael.