Will there ever be a new large iMac (Pro)?

[DrRadon]

Ironic that we now have the ATV in it's place. Almost like the wheels on the bus go round and round...

I remember the Apple II. Though I was a C64 owner and fan of said Legendary machine. That said, the romantic in me would love to see the ATV morph into a casual gaming powerhouse. And with ATV A12X and Apple Arcade...if it grows anything...like...iTunes 'Spotify' then it could be a real dark horse for games.

Azrael.

The big gaming push with Apple TV is suppose to happen at WWDC. It will be interesting to see. I never used Apples gaming subscription because i am drowning in games if i have time to play, but it will be very interesting to see if and how they move to the next level. Especially now competing with the PS5 announcement this week and possibly xBox stacking something against it in the days/weeks after. I wonder if they have a real system seller exclusive on their hands for WWDCs presentation. Or at least some kind of AAA console port, even if it's just something as "retro" as Octopath Traveler.
I doubt my Apple TV HD will be able to handle any of that, but still i am curious about it.

 

[PutTheFBackIn]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen this much of a “Shut Up And Take My Money” moment like this iMac redesign (supposed) has generated.

I’m part of said group btw. Seriously Apple, FFS, get on with it.

 

[Azrael9]

The big gaming push with Apple TV is suppose to happen at WWDC. It will be interesting to see. I never used Apples gaming subscription because i am drowning in games if i have time to play, but it will be very interesting to see if and how they move to the next level. Especially now competing with the PS5 announcement this week and possibly xBox stacking something against it in the days/weeks after. I wonder if they have a real system seller exclusive on their hands for WWDCs presentation. Or at least some kind of AAA console port, even if it's just something as "retro" as Octopath Traveler.
I doubt my Apple TV HD will be able to handle any of that, but still i am curious about it.

A 'big gaming push' from Apple will be most welcome. Apple have a unique take on things so it will be interesting to see how they view gaming. But their old school approach to Apple Arcade and going to the casual gamer masses in interesting.

Sounds like you're 'drowning' in games to catch up playing and then there's the PS5 pending. And you're right. Apple are competing in the living with Sony and M$. The battle for the living room is hotting up. So updating the ATV to A12X is essential to what Apple are doing with Apple Arcade and the ATV+ service.

Apple Arcade has seen the attempt to utilise and leverage 'different' types of deveopers of games and allow developers to come up with 'non-standard' game ideas reminiscent of the 8-bit era in terms of invention and innovation. They may not be typical of Doom Eternal et al...but I think (being an old school gamer) that's a 'good thing.'

But in terms of the triple AAA stuff console/pc wise. Apple. Go back to the source. Bungie. If they had to have one gaming studio to round out the top of the eco game sphere? It's them. And the old Blue and White G3 Tower romantic in me, still harbours that redemptive push by Apple to make the Mac great at games. Ironically, they have more resources, are selling 5 times more Macs a year, they have the Metal api, X-Code, a billion iOS devices adjacent to the Mac platform, they have Apple Arcade...they have 250 billion in cash and a 1 trillion market cap. If ever Apple wanted to 'own' the living room and gaming? This is the time. And that 'games leadership' comes from the top of your flagship machines to the bottom. So, yeah, I'd like to see a Bungie (or empirical) exclusive to make the 'Mac' special. Mac gaming always had it's own vibe. Each platform has its own 'vibe.' Apple have an installed base of Macs of at least 100 million users, Apple stores...more than ever resources to push exposure to the Mac/Pad/phone/atv platform for games. They have stores. (The idea of which was laughable back in the day.) Games are great way to get people in store to check out your kit, your games and give the platform a 'buzz.'

Apple haven't found a way to capitalise the H-Bomb installed base of 1 billion iOS devices on Mac. Yet. There is a fulcrum shift. There. Somewhere. But it that pivot may not truly come until...Mac ARM when all devices share the same hardware and software foundations.

As for the 'big gaming push' with ATV at WWDC2020. I wonder if the rumoured iMac is the eGamer 'Mac' muted in December to arrive at the same 'said' event? To round out the top end of Apple Arcade.

Azrael.
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I don’t think I’ve ever seen this much of a “Shut Up And Take My Money” moment like this iMac redesign (supposed) has generated.

I’m part of said group btw. Seriously Apple, FFS, get on with it.

I wish they'd get on with it before I forget my name.

Azrael.

PS.

Wishlist for 2020's next-gen Apple TV

Rumors of next-gen Apple TV hardware have been picking up steam in recent months and many observers expect to see a new Apple TV streaming device…

macdailynews.com

 

[Freida]

Can you please tell me what are you guys talking about? I'm a bit lost.
Why is PCIE4 or 5 important and what is limitation in TB3? You can already connect an external screen and it can drive XDR so what is this "fuss" about the PCIE and TB, please?

Do you mind elaborating for those that are not familiar with this, please?

I hear what you're saying re: the rebranding of TB3 to TB4 and the inherent limitations of that 'marketing.'

Until we get to TB'5' (a doubling of signal speed...?) and and PCIE4...or 5...(which isn't that far away..?)

As to who would want to use an external monitor with the iMac?

Me.

I will be having a BenQ (or any equally potent monitor) that can rotate to 90 degrees so I can view A3 artwork/proofs of final art to go alongside any new iMac purchase. (Presuming the new iMac won't have 'portrait' mode despite the 'promise' offered by the iLamp iMac all those years ago...) And perhaps an iPad in sidecar mode so I can see in flight production and changes to the final page...as I make creative changes.

A 2nd or 3rd monitor for creatives isn't unusual.

Eg. Leaving one to do a render or video work whilst doing 2D (for example) work on the main screen. There's so many ways to use two monitors, I should imagine.

Azrael.

 

[Azrael9]

Can you please tell me what are you guys talking about? I'm a bit lost.
Why is PCIE4 or 5 important and what is limitation in TB3? You can already connect an external screen and it can drive XDR so what is this "fuss" about the PCIE and TB, please?

Do you mind elaborating for those that are not familiar with this, please?

PCIE. It's about throughput of information. Country roads. Town roads. Freeways. (Motorways in the UK eg. The M25.)

The wider those lanes? The less congested the traffic. (Allegedly...but people always use the available 'bandwidth' or road space in computers and on roads until it's choked and needs to be upgraded again.

Eg. On here. Some have mentioned the TB3 protocol not being sufficient for eGPUs. And, ultimately, it isn't.

The current 'Road' is PCIE 3 is 'fast enough.' But we're in a progress to the next road (which is wider) called PCIE 4. Probably more lanes and faster traffic allowed. Which will give an overall boost to system responsiveness and how fast devices can go on that system. Roads. Cars. How wide the roads. How fast the cars.

Apple may postpone using this protocol. (I note they omitted it with the Mac Pro...but came up with their own solution for the GPUs et al for now.) Because...PCIE5 is road the corner and will be warp speed compared to PCIE4 and make PCIE3 seem quaint.

The problem with PCIE 4 is that the PCIE5 protocol is right on it's heels in relative terms. And PCIE 5 (from what I've read and heard) buries it. Probably in the way that RDNA2 buries RDNA1.

So. Do we wait for PCIE5? In an Apple device it's probably years away. Same with PCIE4. Probably 2021 if we're lucky in Macs. And there's the Mac ARM transition too. Which may muddy how Apple supports things in Mac regarding TB, PCIE etc. And there's buying for peripherals for PCIE3...4...5...er...do I wait...do I buy now...do I wait...etc...then upgrade later...

In short, any iMac revision is going to put the current out of date one in the shade. Any move to RDNA2 will bury the current iMac and iMac Pro. PCIE3 will hold just fine for the next year. But the latest AMD mobos are supporting PCIE 4.

Unless you're running an eGPU, I wouldn't worry about it 'that much.' And similarly, for SSDs. Sure they get a substantial boost with PCIE 4...but honestly? Apple do pretty good with the speeds on SSDs right now. At least until the dust settles on PCIE4 vs 5.

Apple sometimes seems very conservative in adopting protocols until there is a true market consensus.

So it's about overall system responsiveness. You can have a very fast cpu and/or gpu. But if the road you're using is too narrow? The system can 'wait' to feed that information through. An example of one such bottle neck being fixed was the move from Hard Drive to SSD.

What is exciting on the PS5 is that Sony have gone the expensive route of super fast IO 'throughput' with a super fast SSD tech' to shuttle it through. It's the hardest and least common thing to do, it seems. CPUs and gpus get more attention. But ultimately it's about balancing each part of the system.

You can have the fastest cpu and gpu in the world. But if you're wait on the harddrive to feed the info through the IO system...you get a massive choke point. eg. Waiting for games to 'load.'

TB3. Let's give it a '40mph.' I was hoping TB4 would be an '80mph.' But instead of making the road faster, I think they've 'just' made it wider? And consolidated the branding as USB3, USB3.1 and what was and wasn't compatible with TB3 seemed head ache inducing...into TB4. One plug and one brand to rule them all. We hope. As it seemed messy. And is the licensing on it now 'free' as well to aid adoption?

Azrael.
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PCIE 4. I don't see it having any impact on iMac or iMac Pro this year. It isn't on the Mac Pro. So they probably aren't going to get it.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. But doesn't the iPad work in a more integrated way in terms of IO/Ram/SSD? And maybe this kind of tech' will come to Mac care of the Mac Arm Transition.

But the PS5 is going to get something even better than PCIE4 it seems. And therefore 'we'll' have open worlds that load instantly as opposed to corridor sequences whilst the main game data loads. So for a taste of what 'PCIE' means in terms of computers in the next few years, check out the PS5 launch and how games are going to change as a result of it's next level IO and SSD throughput.

Might take PCs (and certainly Macs) a couple of years to catch up.

Azrael.

 

[Freida]

Thank you so much. So yeah, its essentially bandwidth on those protocols. I was just confused why you guys talked a lot about eGPU and I guess that is what derailed me.

So basically, if one doesn't care about eGPU then the bandwidth we get now should be sufficient for RDNA2 (if we are lucky) and anything else? Or we will still get slow ins?

I assume its the formal if I got that right.

Anyway, exciting times. 3 weeks left to find out

P.s.: Yeah, thursday for the PS5. Kinda curious. I don't own a console as I never liked that type of gaming (for me gaming is keyboard and mouse -> superior to any controller especially for RTS like Reforged ) but I'm curious to see whats cooking at Sony as I was thinking to get something so I can enjoy some occasional fun on my brand new 65" Sony tv

PCIE. It's about throughput of information. Country roads. Town roads. Freeways. (Motorways in the UK eg. The M25.)

The wider those lanes? The less congested the traffic. (Allegedly...but people always use the available 'bandwidth' or road space in computers and on roads until it's choked and needs to be upgraded again.

Eg. On here. Some have mentioned the TB3 protocol not being sufficient for eGPUs. And, ultimately, it isn't.

The current 'Road' is PCIE 3 is 'fast enough.' But we're in a progress to the next road (which is wider) called PCIE 4. Probably more lanes and faster traffic allowed. Which will give an overall boost to system responsiveness and how fast devices can go on that system. Roads. Cars. How wide the roads. How fast the cars.

Apple may postpone using this protocol. (I note they omitted it with the Mac Pro...but came up with their own solution for the GPUs et al for now.) Because...PCIE5 is road the corner and will be warp speed compared to PCIE4 and make PCIE3 seem quaint.

The problem with PCIE 4 is that the PCIE5 protocol is right on it's heels in relative terms. And PCIE 5 (from what I've read and heard) buries it. Probably in the way that RDNA2 buries RDNA1.

So. Do we wait for PCIE5? In an Apple device it's probably years away. Same with PCIE4. Probably 2021 if we're lucky in Macs. And there's the Mac ARM transition too. Which may muddy how Apple supports things in Mac regarding TB, PCIE etc. And there's buying for peripherals for PCIE3...4...5...er...do I wait...do I buy now...do I wait...etc...then upgrade later...

In short, any iMac revision is going to put the current out of date one in the shade. Any move to RDNA2 will bury the current iMac and iMac Pro. PCIE3 will hold just fine for the next year. But the latest AMD mobos are supporting PCIE 4.

Unless you're running an eGPU, I wouldn't worry about it 'that much.' And similarly, for SSDs. Sure they get a substantial boost with PCIE 4...but honestly? Apple do pretty good with the speeds on SSDs right now. At least until the dust settles on PCIE4 vs 5.

Apple sometimes seems very conservative in adopting protocols until there is a true market consensus.

So it's about overall system responsiveness. You can have a very fast cpu and/or gpu. But if the road you're using is too narrow? The system can 'wait' to feed that information through. An example of one such bottle neck being fixed was the move from Hard Drive to SSD.

What is exciting on the PS5 is that Sony have gone the expensive route of super fast IO 'throughput' with a super fast SSD tech' to shuttle it through. It's the hardest and least common thing to do, it seems. CPUs and gpus get more attention. But ultimately it's about balancing each part of the system.

You can have the fastest cpu and gpu in the world. But if you're wait on the harddrive to feed the info through the IO system...you get a massive choke point. eg. Waiting for games to 'load.'

TB3. Let's give it a '40mph.' I was hoping TB4 would be an '80mph.' But instead of making the road faster, I think they've 'just' made it wider? And consolidated the branding as USB3, USB3.1 and what was and wasn't compatible with TB3 seemed head ache inducing...into TB4. One plug and one brand to rule them all. We hope. As it seemed messy. And is the licensing on it now 'free' as well to aid adoption?

Azrael.
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PCIE 4. I don't see it having any impact on iMac or iMac Pro this year. It isn't on the Mac Pro. So they probably aren't going to get it.

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. But doesn't the iPad work in a more integrated way in terms of IO/Ram/SSD? And maybe this kind of tech' will come to Mac care of the Mac Arm Transition.

But the PS5 is going to get something even better than PCIE4 it seems. And therefore 'we'll' have open worlds that load instantly as opposed to corridor sequences whilst the main game data loads. So for a taste of what 'PCIE' means in terms of computers in the next few years, check out the PS5 launch and how games are going to change as a result of it's next level IO and SSD throughput.

Might take PCs (and certainly Macs) a couple of years to catch up.

Azrael.

 

[ssong]

I think there’s a growing possibility WWDC / product announcement may get postponed

Sony postpones PS5 event ‘to allow more important voices to be heard’

Sony’s decision follows similar moves by EA and Google

www.theverge.com

 

[DrRadon]

I think there’s a growing possibility WWDC / product announcement may get postponed

Sony postpones PS5 event ‘to allow more important voices to be heard’

Sony’s decision follows similar moves by EA and Google

www.theverge.com

Ps5 is a lot bigger announcement than a new iMac Specs bump would be and till wwdc there’s still 21 days for the streets to calm down, whatever big news they have for the event. i also would imagine that wwdc is something people plan for, it might not be great to postpone it after people put it in their work schedules for several month. Let’s keep our fingers crossed.

 

[FrankySavvy]

Ps5 is a lot bigger announcement than a new iMac Specs bump would be and till wwdc there’s still 21 days for the streets to calm down, whatever big news they have for the event. i also would imagine that wwdc is something people plan for, it might not be great to postpone it after people put it in their work schedules for several month. Let’s keep our fingers crossed.

Unless theses riots get much worse and warrant a national martial law or something like that - WWDC will be on for June 22nd.

 

[CWallace]

I can see Apple not wanting to release any products this week or next (in theory, new Watch Bands were due around now), but they will not postpone WWDC.

 

[DrRadon]

I can see Apple not wanting to release any products this week or next (in theory, new Watch Bands were due around now), but they will not postpone WWDC.

dident they release new watch bands last week?

 

[CWallace]

dident they release new watch bands last week?

They did indeed release the Pride bands for 2020 in May (bought the Nike sport band), but the Summer Collection has yet to be announced.

Last year, both the Pride and Summer Collection bands were released together on Day One of WWDC (3 June). Apple might be holding back the Summer Collection for WWDC (June is Pride Month so they would not want to wait until the 21st to announce those bands).

 

[iDan75]

I bet someone at Apple is finding this whole thread hilarious.
“Shall we release it today?”
“Nah, make them wait a bit longer”
?

 

[gusping]

I think there’s a growing possibility WWDC / product announcement may get postponed

Sony postpones PS5 event ‘to allow more important voices to be heard’

Sony’s decision follows similar moves by EA and Google

www.theverge.com

I'm not sure how this will go down with my fellow iMac enthusiasts, but I have no idea what delaying all these announcement events achieves? There is no link between the current situation and PS5 games or the Android event. Am I missing something? Perhaps it makes Sony/Google look good, and is free PR? At least NASA and Space X carried on and gave the world something to be positive about.
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I bet someone at Apple is finding this whole thread hilarious.
“Shall we release it today?”
“Nah, make them wait a bit longer”
?

Don't say that! We know from site viewing data which MacRumours sometimes shares, that Apple employees on the latest unannounced software visit the site. It seems highly likely that at least one person working on the iMac knows we are desperate!

 

[sublunar]

I think there’s a growing possibility WWDC / product announcement may get postponed

Sony postpones PS5 event ‘to allow more important voices to be heard’

Sony’s decision follows similar moves by EA and Google

www.theverge.com

Sony wouldn't want to be seen to be moving the news agenda on with a games console. A long awaited next generation games console might just do that - as might an iPhone announcement.

Delaying makes sense to avoid negative headlines at this sensitive time.

 

[gusping]

Sony wouldn't want to be seen to the moving the news agenda on. A next generation games console might just do that - as might an iPhone announcement.

Delaying makes sense to avoid negative headlines at this sensitive time.

Let's be realistic, it is almost certainly solely a business decision. They want to be in the headlines, as do all these companies with announcement. I think this has all got a bit out of hand, tbh....

 

[Kalae]

I'm not sure how this will go down with my fellow iMac enthusiasts, but I have no idea what delaying all these announcement events achieves?

The topic borders on politics and I doubt anyone wants to participate in that here... but to me it's tasteless to celebrate more frivolous things when serious stuff is actively happening.

An event touting new OS privacy and security features, or sending humans into the frontier of space isn't bad. A new gaming console or cute new Memoji faces isn't ideal.

 

[sublunar]

Ps5 is a lot bigger announcement than a new iMac Specs bump would be and till wwdc there’s still 21 days for the streets to calm down, whatever big news they have for the event. i also would imagine that wwdc is something people plan for, it might not be great to postpone it after people put it in their work schedules for several month. Let’s keep our fingers crossed.

WWDC to me sounds like something they'd slip under the radar, the only caveat to this would be how hard they intend to push an AppleTV 4k mk6 or ARM iBook/Macbook which sounds like the kind of thing they'd launch at a WWDC.

 

[ssong]

I'm not sure how this will go down with my fellow iMac enthusiasts, but I have no idea what delaying all these announcement events achieves? There is no link between the current situation and PS5 games or the Android event. Am I missing something? Perhaps it makes Sony/Google look good, and is free PR? At least NASA and Space X carried on and gave the world something to be positive about.

similar to what others have said, given MacRumors has a separate channel for politics I won’t weigh in on that aspect but it’s largely to do with not taking any press time away from more pressing matters.

inevitably no matter how big or small Apple’s iMac announcement is or the sheer fact of WWDC kicking off will be enough to drive media coverage away from other matters.

equally, for some it’s also about showing support and giving the chance for all members of their community to be able to participate in the eager anticipation of celebrating software and hardware with a lighter mind / heart

 

[CWallace]

I'm not sure how this will go down with my fellow iMac enthusiasts, but I have no idea what delaying all these announcement events achieves?

As others have noted, it is purely from a marketing / public relations standpoint. Also, the decision is not entirely Sony's to make as they will have launch partners (AMD, Game Studios) who also would be providing their input and judgement.

In the end, it is a "darned if they do, darned if they don't" kind of decision as there is already blowback from angry game enthusiasts at the delay, but in the end, they're still going to be there come the Holidays to buy the console and the game so Sony and Company can "afford" to anger them versus angering other parties.

 

[krell100]

The idea of Apple putting the latest Gen tech in any of their machines is actually laughable. History proves that they put old tech in that is already close to obsolete then charge for it (and market it) as though its the latest and greatest. I have no doubt that a new iMac won't have navi2 or PCIe4(5), it may have an outside chance at 10th Gen Intel CPUs but even that is largely down to a fundamental redesign or incorporating iMac Pro innards. Name me one Apple desktop machine that is cutting edge. Just one.

Thinking Apple would give you "everything" is laughable. Cynical? Yes. Realistic? Yes. Even on design Apple are no longer the top dog and hasn't been for a long time. I hope this turns around with a new iMac design/tech but I seriously doubt it. My vote is that Apple offer an underwhelming bump and the consensus is one of mild disappointment. I hope I'm wrong...

 

[CWallace]

I have no doubt that a new iMac won't have navi2 or PCIe4(5), it may have an outside chance at 10th Gen Intel CPUs but even that is largely down to a fundamental redesign or incorporating iMac Pro innards.

Well the iMac 5K already has 9th Generation Intel CPUs as either standard or BTO options so they can only go to the 10th Generation, which is the current. The 4K iMacs are still on 8th Generation so they could do either 9th or 10th and since the 10th are now out...

PCIe4/5 are not available on Intel platforms so that's a non-starter argument since you won't get an Intel-powered Dell or HP with it. And AMD has yet to release an RDNA2-powered video card or OEM-compatible GPU so, again, you won't find that with anyone else, as well.

 

[DrRadon]

The topic borders on politics and I doubt anyone wants to participate in that here... but to me it's tasteless to celebrate more frivolous things when serious stuff is actively happening.

While, to a degree, I do believe corporate culture might have changed to a point where they (big companies, not just Apple) might care about people over profits not just for marketing purposes there still is a gigantic marketing aspect to releasing something you want to be on news shows and front pages... because right now it would not be the focal point of any news show and you’d be on page seven of the papers if they even would arrive at your door at all Depending how bad it is at your street.
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Well the iMac 5K already has 9th Generation Intel CPUs as either standard or BTO options so they can only go to the 10th Generation, which is the current. The 4K iMacs are still on 8th Generation so they could do either 9th or 10th and since the 10th are now out...

Yes, i was considering this as well when reading it. Something will surely have to be upgraded. Time timeline is strange on 10th gen Chips, but when you already have the MBP13 out rocking it it would seem odd not to have the up to date version in a delayed, yet newer, product. Same goes with the GPU, what would Apple do without an upgrade? Ad more SSD space? Drop the Prices? Include more RAM?
Unless there is a redesign something here has got to trade up to "times 1.X performance to the old machine". Honestly that also would need to be there if there was a redesign. But if there is a Redesign it will not happen this week anyway... for said marketing reasons and because the only reason to not drop it this week would be the desire to have it in a full keynote wich points to WWDC.

 

[krell100]

Minor bump short term (now to WWDC) then redesign/update in 12 months, can't see how it will go any different to that?

 

[DrRadon]

Minor bump short term (now to WWDC) then redesign/update in 12 months, can't see how it will go any different to that?

We are on the same page. The riots might change something, but really if it is just a smaller bump they would have planed it for this week to keep it two weeks offset from WWDC rather than dropping it half a week before it's newsworthy conference (there is a keynote announced for a reason).

Apple is relatively flexible with no in person Event announced/needed IF it is supposed to drop now. I assume they could push a iMac set for this week back till next Monday (= two weeks till WWDC) in hope of the Riots calming down and the News Media not drawing major ratings anymore by just live airing a camera set up at a burning street corner 24/7.