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Will you leave the Apple ecosystem because of CSAM?
- Thread starter singularity0993
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My issue is not so much about the practical scanning its about the overall attitude towards the customer and respect for privacy.
It’ll never be as polished as iOS until google stop giving android to everyone who puts their hands up.
Google needs to keep android for themselves, make their own hardware and make it easier for developers to develop apps for a few phones instead of 2 million phones.
Most apps are horrible on android when compared to iOS, have a family member who only used Samsung phones, when he switched to iOS first thing he told me was apps run and look way better on iOS.
By the way I have used android phones, had a note 10+ worse phone experience I’ve ever had. 🤦♂️
Until the above happens, android will continue to be a fragmented, bloated, unreliable mess.
And if we cannot find a police car let some IT companies do the work and let their folks look into everyone’s property.
How the radar gun invades your privacy you failed to let us know.
If it was the worst "experience" you ever had... Then I guess you need the simple use of Apple. I myself find IOS to be boring, controlling, and limiting. The iPad has improved somewhat, but the phone leaves me cold. And no Google does not need to control everything. You are coming across as a fanboi, and I have no time for that. Android is not as "bloated" as IOs, so that right there is a joke. As for fragmented, you are just repeating old propaganda that has no bearing on reality. Whether you like it or not most of the world prefers Android. Apple more than Google needs the US markets so it would behoove them to not piss people off.
This is the concern and the argument is not whether they are trying to protect children or not. I am all for protecting children against crime, but this gives Apple the ability to scan for and gather anything they want. I have nothing to hide and it is not about “hiding” something. Adding this to the iOS does not “limit” Apple to just photo scanning for just one thing, it gives a company the ability to scan and “gather” whatever they want for whatever purpose. That is the issue for those who don’t see why people are concerned.
I use both as well and I do not think Android is as polished as iOS. For me it lags more often (and I'm comparing a 2020 midrange Android to a 2016 iPhone SE), Android Auto is really sluggish compared to CarPlay. There are lots of little bugs that Google never bothers to fix - for example, for eight years or so the Google Play music app would merge albums from different artists that happened to have the same title (e.g. "Greatest Hits"). This was reported early on and never fixed, now they cancelled the whole app instead.
That being said, the iPhone is only polished along the rails that Apple laid. If you don't want to do things their way, then it gets extremely clunky, or it does not work at all. The iPhone extends and relies on its ecosystem, whereas an Android feels like a self-sufficient computer that can get anything done, even if it is a bumpy ride sometimes - bullet train vs Mil Mi-24.
Both work well in most everyday situations, though.
Someone calling it how it is, don't know why android users get offended when people say it's not as polished as iOS and tends to lag, even had people tell me they've left android because of the way it lags, had 3 family members android users switch to iOS recently, even they said iOS is more polished and doesn't lag like android, no shame in admitting it does happen.
In what way is it incorrect? Apple might have built it so they can only unlock those 30 photos for this particular purpose, but I am pretty sure they can read anything you put in the iCloud as it has been stated many times that Apple can serve data from the iCloud backups to law enforcement but not break into the phone itself.
No privacy, no party…. Welcome back to android and Windows debloated, I sell all my Apple products, with this notice Apple products for me lost 80% of valour… Now I havent reasons to pay more for no privacy, is simple for me.
Exactly. Most of us are well aware of the technical issues and lack of polish of the alternatives. But I used to look at Apple as “the lesser of evils” and this decision removes that. Not really worth the premium anymore for me.
I find all this talk about how we can not trust Apple and conspiracy theories very funny. If you can't trust Apple when they come out and very publicly tell you what they are doing, then you should never have trusted them because they sure could have been doing this behind the scenes and just carried on. Apple's willingness to give very specific details about what they are doing is the very best reason to trust them. By doing so, they throw themselves open to all sorts of litigation aka class action if it is ever shown that they did more than was stated. For myself, I find all the details of what Apple is doing not only for CSAM because it has no direct effect on myself, but the IP hopping, email aliasing and other measures to be very reassuring and happy I am a long time Apple user.
They are controlling every photo "on device", that I do upload. What they do on their servers cannot be stopped, but I do not want to have a software on my phone, that controls any of my content leaving my phone and does a review in case of an alarm to approve it. There is nothing to be approved by an arbitrary Apple clerk.
This is a very good point. But do not expect "respect" from Apple. You are the one that brings the money. That's it.
iPhone XS Max + Watch 5 user. Previously Nokia user so no real experience of Android.
Samsung S21 is arriving today. Their new watch looks interesting but I’m going to wait and see what other watches are released in the coming months.
I’ll probably configure it to backup images etc to my NAS drive via WebDAV and then figure out how to encrypt before archival to the cloud. I get that this is too complex for a lot of users but I gotta at least try to see if privacy can exist.
I’ve long been critical of some of Apple’s business practices, particularly around the App Store, but my assumption was and is that various governments would legislate to fix the problems which exist in that space.
I’m under no illusion that I will find the process difficult and there might be some UX trade offs (some improvements balanced out by some deterioration). As I’ve explained to my wife (who is sad that she won’t be able to track me anymore!) I do love how the iPhone works but this is a point of principle.
I considered three points:
1.With CSAM not being the only crime that exists, I realised that it would be illogical for me to support automatic detection of breaches of CSAM laws whilst not also supporting the expansion to other crimes. Driving offences, drugs usage, even alleged hate speech in messaging apps could all trigger a report to Apple who could then ensure that more criminals are punished. What could be the downsides?
2. Apple has appointed themselves as the arbiter of who gets reported to the authorities and who does not. Although there is zero chance of me being reported for CSAM offences, do I think it appropriate that private employees of a private company get to judge my content/behaviour (assuming a wider rollout) and report me?
3. Do I trust Apple? Hell no.
Samsung S21 is arriving today. Their new watch looks interesting but I’m going to wait and see what other watches are released in the coming months.
I’ll probably configure it to backup images etc to my NAS drive via WebDAV and then figure out how to encrypt before archival to the cloud. I get that this is too complex for a lot of users but I gotta at least try to see if privacy can exist.
I’ve long been critical of some of Apple’s business practices, particularly around the App Store, but my assumption was and is that various governments would legislate to fix the problems which exist in that space.
I’m under no illusion that I will find the process difficult and there might be some UX trade offs (some improvements balanced out by some deterioration). As I’ve explained to my wife (who is sad that she won’t be able to track me anymore!) I do love how the iPhone works but this is a point of principle.
I considered three points:
1.With CSAM not being the only crime that exists, I realised that it would be illogical for me to support automatic detection of breaches of CSAM laws whilst not also supporting the expansion to other crimes. Driving offences, drugs usage, even alleged hate speech in messaging apps could all trigger a report to Apple who could then ensure that more criminals are punished. What could be the downsides?
2. Apple has appointed themselves as the arbiter of who gets reported to the authorities and who does not. Although there is zero chance of me being reported for CSAM offences, do I think it appropriate that private employees of a private company get to judge my content/behaviour (assuming a wider rollout) and report me?
3. Do I trust Apple? Hell no.
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Care to elaborate what's better in being done all in the back scene instead of on-device?
Unless a malicious hacker has other ideas.
Isn't it funny how Julian Assange miraculously became a "serial sexual predator" once Wikileaks started posting inconvenient information about major political organizations?
Did you ever read Google's Terms and Conditions? I mean carefully.
Did you ever compare it to Apple's T&C?
Did you ever follow Google Ads courses and understand exactly how it's built around profiling all of us?
Did you get the fact that Google Ads is forced to evolve in the next year, thanks to Apple's privacy moves ?
Did you ever take a look at (some of) the data Google has collected from you in the Google My Activity?
Are you aware that "If it's free, then you are the product"?
You make it sound like Google's cleaner than Apple, and even with CSAM, you'll only convince a handful of people. Understand the concepts I mentioned above first, and then come here to tell me with a straight face that Apple does more shady things with your data than Google.
It's perfectly logical to hold all of them in equal contempt.
Yes. I guess my point was that my reasons for being against this are not a result of me having illegal files on my device.
Tbh, I'm less worried about a malicious hacker than I am a future iteration of this feature which looks at the photos in my 'memes' album and decides that they could be offensive to someone.
Your concern is well-founded.
Taking it a step further, this new policy could be used as a weapon without actually even being put into practice.
If a news story came out in major media that Timster83 was found to have CSAM in his Apple account, this policy offers an implicit (and legal) means by which it was found. Do you think Average Internet Do-Gooder is going to question whether or not it's true? Or whether or not it was planted there?
Someone could just make it up out of thin air, for any reason, and now in the public record you have been linked to CSAM. No retraction will ever give back your good name.
Can't a malicious hacker upload "bad images" to icloud on your behalf also? It works the same both ways.
I don't use iCloud backup, but this has been the case before iOS 14 anyway, so nothing has changed.
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