Windows 11

[pshufd]

I give up on Wake on LAN.

I spent about two hours running down driver, BIOS, different hardware, etc. and I suspect that it's a BIOS or driver issue. There are some settings that aren't available in Device Settings that leads me to suspect that it's this. The Ethernet port lights are on but just red so no connection. I suspect that the reason why most people don't complain or debug the issue is that the workaround is to just leave your system up all the time and I guess that's what people do.

I'm going to hook up a power meter to the system to see what the power consumption is at idle. I suspect that it's more than I want it to be.

For now, I'm adding one or two external SSDs to the Mac Studio and will just store stuff there.

 

[pshufd]

I spent another hour on it and got Wake on LAN to work.

It was a driver issue.

After updating to W11 23H2, the Advanced driver options in the network device showed four additional options. Three of them were already on (probably from what I did earlier), but the fourth was off. I turned it on and Wak on LAN finally works.

The last thing to work on is the Black Screen problem.

There's an nVidia 1050 on this along with Intel Integrated graphics. I'm amenable to using either one - as long as it works. I also have a 1030 and 1660 that I can pop in to try out. I am surprised that these old cards have issues as any issues should have been worked out already.

 

[mi7chy]

Strange. Wake-on-LAN "just works" when enabled in BIOS/UEFI with default Windows 11/10 WoL settings. Works fine from both sleep and shutdown on 2008 Thinkpad x200 running Windows 11 and recent desktop running Windows 10.

Do you by chance have Realtek NIC? I prefer and have Intel NICs to avoid weird issues.

 

[pshufd]

Strange. Wake-on-LAN "just works" when enabled in BIOS/UEFI with default Windows 11/10 WoL settings. Works fine from both sleep and shutdown on 2008 Thinkpad x200 running Windows 11 and recent desktop running Windows 10.

Do you by chance have Realtek NIC? I prefer and have Intel NICs to avoid weird issues.

Yup, it's Realtek. It was definitely a driver issue. I should have downloaded it from Realtek instead of Asus as the Asus driver was from 2021.

I upgraded to nVidia's latest drivers and this seems to have fixed the black screen problems. I suspect the cause was using the latest nVidia drivers with an old version of W11, and, then, after upgrading to W11 24H2, I needed to install the nVidia drivers again. Maybe the upgrade overwrite the drivers.

At any rate, I achieved all goals switching to Windows though it took me a lot longer than I expected it to.

 

[rin67630]

At any rate, I achieved all goals switching to Windows though it took me a lot longer than I expected it to.

It's sometimes weird to get Apple's hardware to run Windows / Linux, but it is definitely worth the effort.
Finally breaking free from Apple's prison of planned obsolescence, all sorts of arbitrary restrictions and forcing you to rebuy stuff.
A real breathe of oxygen !

 

[pshufd]

It's sometimes weird to get Apple's hardware to run Windows / Linux, but it is definitely worth the effort.
Finally breaking free from Apple's prison of planned obsolescence, all sorts of arbitrary restrictions and forcing you to rebuy stuff.
A real breathe of oxygen !

I've not had any problems getting my Intel Apple systems to run Windows.

This is a system I built back in 2020 with components designed to run cool and quiet.

You still have the overall issue of Apple making it difficult to upgrade things outside of the Mac Pro and RAM on the iMacs.

 

[rin67630]

I've not had any problems getting my Intel Apple systems to run Windows.

This is a system I built back in 2020 with components designed to run cool and quiet.

You still have the overall issue of Apple making it difficult to upgrade things outside of the Mac Pro and RAM on the iMacs.

Happy you !
You still have the overall issue of Apple frequently using non-standard hardware or interfacing that hardware in a non-standard way and providing sub-optimal drivers to run Windows.

 

[pshufd]

Happy you !
You still have the overall issue of Apple frequently using non-standard hardware or interfacing that hardware in a non-standard way and providing sub-optimal drivers to run Windows.

If you need to run Windows, use a PC.

I have a 2015 MacBook Pro and if I need a Windows laptop, I just install Windows on it and take it with me or loan it out to whoever needs a Windows laptop. If Windows 11 ARM is good enough, then I just take my Apple Silicon MacBook Pro and run it on VMware. Some programs don't run on it or don't run well. I have considered buying a Windows laptop but that's a minefield these days too.

Our son is upgrading his gaming laptop and he's run into the problem of reliability. I think that he's settled on MSI and will be buying one soon.

If you need Windows professionally and you need specific things to work that may not work on a Mac, then just get a Windows PC to your specific needs. This is not necessarily simple; the great flexibility you get in building PCs can also get you into compatibility problems.

 

[rin67630]

If you need to run Windows, use a PC.

Don't tell me what I have to use !
I am using Macbooks and iMacs because these have by far the best cost-quality ratio on the market.
I know how to get the best out of them.

 

[rin67630]

If you need Windows professionally and you need specific things to work that may not work on a Mac...

The most important thing that I need, which "does not work on macOS" is long-term compatibility and freedom of use.
I hate it being infantilized and compelled to buy, buy, buy new Apple stuff.

 

[StoneJack]

I just tried Windows 11 in dark mode. This is so Mac-looking interface, seems like MS did it very intentionally (ie generally tried to copy Mac look). Was not as bad as I thought.

 

[Frankied22]

I just tried Windows 11 in dark mode. This is so Mac-looking interface, seems like MS did it very intentionally (ie generally tried to copy Mac look). Was not as bad as I thought.

I actually find it better looking than macOS. I can’t stand the THICK titlebars in macOS and dark mode is just a shade of gray.

 

[pshufd]

I was still getting black screens on the Windows desktop with the GT 1050 Ti and did some more reading and saw some comments that it's a low-end GPU and that it can have difficulty pushing 4k monitors. So I just popped in an old GTX 1660 Ti SC and I'm about to power it up. I hope that I don't fry anything. I've never actually attached the extra GPU power cable before.

It also gave me the opportunity to vacuum out the PC. Lots of dust and more than a few cobwebs.

I'm hoping that this fixes the black screen problems as these can cost me money. If this does fix them, then I may buy a 4060 to get the required performance with lower power draw.

One thing that I've noticed with the desktop GPUs is the absence of USB-C video output ports. These are fairly standard on Macs and I expected that they would be on PCs too.

 

[pshufd]

GTX 1660 Ti is in the desktop and up and running. I ran my primary trading program and YouTube and CPU power is 10 watts and GPU power is 15 watts. The 1660 Ti has a TDP of 120 watts but it appears that it uses far less power if you're not gaming. OpenCL is about 72K, a bit higher than my M1 Max Studio and quite a bit higher than my iMac Pro Vega 56 at 58K.

I've been running it for twenty minutes and have not had any black screens. I'll try it out on Friday for trading to see if this solves the problem completely. I'm curious what the GPU power of the 4060 is compared to the 1660 but I'm not inclined to upgrade because it's already using very little power.

My other thought is that I could actually replace the M1 Max Studio with this Windows desktop. It is strong enough to run both of my major trading programs and run as the home NAS. My trading programs do not require a lot of CPU on Windows but did/do on macOS Apple Silicon. I much prefer to do everything on macOS but I could run just my trading stuff on Windows and everything else on the iMac Pro.

I could then reassess when my remaining trading program has a native port to Apple Silicon, currently expected sometime around 2026, This would give me maximum value for my M1 Max Studio (as value is dropping steadily until the M4 Studio comes out). It would be the ultimate in going retro back to Intel. At least for now.

 

[mi7chy]

If you're aiming for efficiency, you can tame power consumption of CPU by exposing CPU boost option toggle with registry (see section 2.4) and nvidia-smi command-line tool with Nvidia GPU. For me, base CPU clock is plenty so I toggle off CPU boost for efficiency and can easily reenable when needed and also power limit GPU to sweet spot.

 

[pshufd]

If you're aiming for efficiency, you can tame power consumption of CPU by exposing CPU boost option toggle with registry (see section 2.4) and nvidia-smi command-line tool with Nvidia GPU. For me, base CPU clock is plenty so I toggle off CPU boost for efficiency and can easily reenable when needed and also power limit GPU to sweet spot.

I specifically bought a non-K 8 core Intel CPU for efficiency and the GPU fortunately doesn't use much power for what I use it for. Core thermals are 18-30 degrees which I'm fine with. The Mac Studio actually runs hotter than the PC under the same workload but that's because one of my main programs runs under WINE and Rosetta 2 on Apple Silicon and performance is awful.

Perhaps I could save 7 watts going to a 4060 but the cost to benefit ratio is awful there. If I were using 100 watts and would save 50 or 70, then I would think about it. I don't need gaming capability at all. Just the ability to run 3x4k monitors without any issues. And that doesn't seem to be a market that's served by any products. Even the Intel Integrated, which is supposed to be able to do 3x4k, has black screens.

 

[pshufd]

I complained to our son about Asus support and he said that's because I chose their TUF gaming line.

Higher up = higher quality.

Asus has 4 lines: ROG (Republic of Gamers), ROG Strix, TUF (sometimes written as TUF Gaming), and Prime.

TUF is their garbage line. Bottom of the barrel for gamers on a budget. You get what you pay for. Get something better if price isn't a problem!

Prime is their productivity line. Contrary to the name, it's not really premium. Most of the Prime lineup is really no better than TUF, although the higher-end Prime boards are comparable to a ROG Strix.

ROG Strix is midrange gaming, midrange quality, midrange price.
ROG is top of the line. Pay a lot, get a lot.


Drivers for the TUF line went up to 2022. Drivers in the ROG lines are updated for 2024 and 2025. You get better heatsinks, connectors, capacitors, Intel modems instead of Realtek, 2.5 GB Ethernet instead of GB Ethernet. I was a bit surprised that $279 was for a low-end motherboard as I've seen them for under $100. But that would explain the driver issues that I've run into.

 

[diamond.g]

I complained to our son about Asus support and he said that's because I chose their TUF gaming line.

Higher up = higher quality.

Asus has 4 lines: ROG (Republic of Gamers), ROG Strix, TUF (sometimes written as TUF Gaming), and Prime.

TUF is their garbage line. Bottom of the barrel for gamers on a budget. You get what you pay for. Get something better if price isn't a problem!

Prime is their productivity line. Contrary to the name, it's not really premium. Most of the Prime lineup is really no better than TUF, although the higher-end Prime boards are comparable to a ROG Strix.

ROG Strix is midrange gaming, midrange quality, midrange price.
ROG is top of the line. Pay a lot, get a lot.


Drivers for the TUF line went up to 2022. Drivers in the ROG lines are updated for 2024 and 2025. You get better heatsinks, connectors, capacitors, Intel modems instead of Realtek, 2.5 GB Ethernet instead of GB Ethernet. I was a bit surprised that $279 was for a low-end motherboard as I've seen them for under $100. But that would explain the driver issues that I've run into.

Yes the higher end (more expensive) stuff is better supported when dealing with Asus.

 

[pshufd]

My plan was to run 3x4k on my Windows desktop but I later realized that the 1660 Ti has DP, HDMI and DVI video outputs. So I can't do 3x4k off the 1660. I could try running one on the iGPU but I'd probably get black screens on it. That may be viable though as I only need one screen to never have black screens.

I did some additional testing and tried to install W10 on my 2015 iMac. I was unable to do the installation and I expect it's due to the version of W10 that I'm trying to install not being compatible with the version of Boot Camp that I am running. I have some ideas on fixing that but will play with that in the future. I was able to install W10 on a 2018 Mac mini i3 with 8 GB of RAM and it runs my trading program with no problems at all. I suspect that it wouldn't have any black screen issues on 4k either. But I'd really like to run all of my trading stuff on the Windows desktop and the ideal solution would be to buy a 4060. I noticed that the 4xxx GPUs all have DisplayPort or HDMI and that your typical 4060 has four ports. They don't have USB-C ports which I would prefer but maybe you can't run the USB/Thunderbolt stuff through the GPU.

I am leaning more towards selling the M1 Max Studio after moving all of my Mac Studio stuff to the iMac Pro. I understand that this solution may be out of support in 3-6 years but software will be native AS by then so I could get an M4 or M5 Studio. Or an M5 iMac Pro.

 

[diamond.g]

I think DVI-D can support 3840x2400, which is about the same amount of pixels as 4k, just in a different aspect ratio.

 

[pshufd]

I think DVI-D can support 3840x2400, which is about the same amount of pixels as 4k, just in a different aspect ratio.

I think that you need two cables to support 4k. I recall this from the old days.

None of my 4k monitors have DVI input though. They are Dell Ultrasharps that support DP, MDP, HDMI, USB-C.