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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
there's little reason to get a console anymore
I disagree, Why spend thousands of dollars on a gaming rig, if you can spend hundreds on a console. You get excellent performance on games, and get many games that are exclusive. Sony has made it clear that any PC releases of their exclusive content will occur a year (or more?) after initial release.

As for the xBox, I'm incredibly impressed by its performance and find that for most people its more then enough. Yes, there are those hard core gamers who don't bat an eyelash at spending 2,000 dollars for a RTX 4090 but for most regular folks, consoles are an excellent option


Linux gaming still has a long long way to go.
I've tried it, and I agree. Yes, the Steam deck is a great and successful product, but and its a big but. IT can only play a subset of Steam's incredibly large library. If you want to play on the steamdeck then there's little messing around, but many games won't play. If you want to try to play games on a Linux from your desktop - well heaven help you. That's going to take a lot of work and frustration - been there done that..
 

Ashbash75

Cancelled
Dec 17, 2017
310
519
I second this. For the price of a 4090, you can get an Xbox, Playstation and a 4k gaming monitor.
 

Spaceboi Scaphandre

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 8, 2022
3,414
8,106
I disagree, Why spend thousands of dollars on a gaming rig, if you can spend hundreds on a console. You get excellent performance on games, and get many games that are exclusive. Sony has made it clear that any PC releases of their exclusive content will occur a year (or more?) after initial release.

Well let's see:
  • Free online
  • Modding
  • Use whatever controller you want
  • Portability through the Steam Deck or Steam Link on your phone
  • Higher framerates as 30 FPS is rearing it's ugly head again
  • Cheaper game prices
  • Don't have to buy two separate boxes for Playstation and Xbox games
  • And of course...well...pic related:

rt_buildings_1_720.png


As for the xBox, I'm incredibly impressed by its performance and find that for most people its more then enough. Yes, there are those hard core gamers who don't bat an eyelash at spending 2,000 dollars for a RTX 4090 but for most regular folks, consoles are an excellent option

I mean you don't have to buy a 4090 (nor should you that card is overkill and it's power supply requirements are absurd. It's so massive it needs railguards to keep it from falling off the motherboard.)

You can get a 3070 for $500, or a 3060 Ti for $450, or hell even a 3060 for $300 (which is what I have) and still get astounding performance compared to the new consoles. Or hell doesn't have to be Nvidia, can go AMD.

I've tried it, and I agree. Yes, the Steam deck is a great and successful product, but and its a big but. IT can only play a subset of Steam's incredibly large library. If you want to play on the steamdeck then there's little messing around, but many games won't play. If you want to try to play games on a Linux from your desktop - well heaven help you. That's going to take a lot of work and frustration - been there done that..

Bro you're capping. 6000 games are marked verified or playable on ProtonDB. That's not a subset that's half of the entire Steam database, and that number is mainly major titles that got tested. Many more titles that haven't been tested most likely work out of the box. SteamOS and Proton took away virtually all of the headache of trying to do Linux Gaming. It's easier than ever to switch to Linux thanks to the Steam Deck.
 

Lihp8270

macrumors 65816
Dec 31, 2016
1,139
1,601
Well let's see:
  • Free online
  • Modding
  • Use whatever controller you want
  • Portability through the Steam Deck or Steam Link on your phone
  • Higher framerates as 30 FPS is rearing it's ugly head again
  • Cheaper game prices
  • Don't have to buy two separate boxes for Playstation and Xbox games
  • And of course...well...pic related:

rt_buildings_1_720.png




I mean you don't have to buy a 4090 (nor should you that card is overkill and it's power supply requirements are absurd. It's so massive it needs railguards to keep it from falling off the motherboard.)

You can get a 3070 for $500, or a 3060 Ti for $450, or hell even a 3060 for $300 (which is what I have) and still get astounding performance compared to the new consoles. Or hell doesn't have to be Nvidia, can go AMD.



Bro you're capping. 6000 games are marked verified or playable on ProtonDB. That's not a subset that's half of the entire Steam database, and that number is mainly major titles that got tested. Many more titles that haven't been tested most likely work out of the box. SteamOS and Proton took away virtually all of the headache of trying to do Linux Gaming. It's easier than ever to switch to Linux thanks to the Steam Deck.
The markings on ProtonDB have been proven many times to be often optimistic at best.

Often they’re rated, then an update breaks them but the ratings aren’t changed. Or they’re missing multiplayer features but are otherwise “playable”

Yes Steamdeck and Proton are amazing at what they do, but they’re still a long way away from where they need to be to be a comfortable experience switching over from windows.

Comparing desktop GPUs to consoles is meaningless. The numbers just don’t translate into real world.

While a 3060 may be more powerful by spec, it doesn’t benefit from the same level of optimisation that comes from the fixed hardware of consoles (it is this fixed hardware reason that previously allowed apple hardware to perform so favourably against more “powerful” and open hardware systems).

Yes PC gaming will always be the crop of outright performance, that can’t be argued. But for the cost of a console you won’t get near its performance with a PC for the same money. And for 90% of people console performance is more than adequate.

While people often trot out the “cheaper games” argument, that is usually only the case when buying comparable games long after release, or from key sites which are often supplied by theft. Even considering the price differences. Usually the price difference isn’t so great over the lifespan of the console to make up for the difference in hardware costs.

To comment on free online play, I’d say as a multi platform gamer, the experience of the paid online services are far better than the toxic cesspit that is online PC gaming.

While we’re talking about pros and cons, PC has more smurfs and far more cheaters than you’ll ever come across on console.

Edit:
The screenshot of Spider-Man comparisons is just bizarre as you’re comparing against much more expensive hardware. How about performance and visual comparison of Spider-Man running on PS5 vs a £400 brand new PC build?
 

maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
Well let's see:
BUT you still cannot over come the biggest issue. Spending hundreds vs thousands.

Well let's see:
  • Free online
  • Modding
  • Use whatever controller you want
  • Portability through the Steam Deck or Steam Link on your phone
  • Higher framerates as 30 FPS is rearing it's ugly head again
  • Cheaper game prices
  • Don't have to buy two separate boxes for Playstation and Xbox games
  • And of course...well...pic related:

So lets see
  • Many console games are free
  • Tue modding is not a thing on consoles mostly but the upside of that is you largely also avoid cheaters.
  • If you really want to use a PS5 controller on Xbox, you can, just takes some extra work
  • So you want me to spend 500 - 700 dollars on a steam deck to play pc games? This isn't a plus for why PCs are better then consoles. I can play Xbox games on my phone and/or tablet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • Xbox games can run at 120 frames, conversely there are games on the PC that are capped at 60
  • One word - Xbox Game subscription. You don't have to buy games and you get the latest titles including many EA titles.
  • That would be silly to buy the same game on two different platforms. Sounds like you're using logical gymnastics an in attempt to say a PC is better. Horizon Zero Dawn on the PC, guess what - you need to buy a second license, even if you own it on the playstation.
  • Actual game play you would barely notice the difference and everyone I know who plays games does not play at ultra level/max level on games because of the FPS. I play Cyberpunk 2077 on the PC and I have ray tracing off, and medium setting simply because I didn't spend 2,000 on a GPU and I want better game performance.

Let me just say its silly to say the PC is better and consoles suck. We really don't need such juvenile attempts where people feel because they like one thing and so an alternative option is obviously bad. One size doesn't fit all, I provided that for so many people spending hundreds of dollars is so much better then spending thousands.

There are things that gaming on the PC is better then the console, and there are things on the console that are superior then the PC

You posted that there's little reason to buy a console, that could be true for you, but your reasons are not everyone's reasons. Googling has shown that Sony has sold somewhere in the neigborhood of 20 million PS5s, and MSFT has 15.4 million Xbox X/S sold, so clearly there are plenty of reasons to buy a console.
 

eltoslightfoot

macrumors 68030
Feb 25, 2011
2,537
3,086
Honestly the window snapping is a million times better than the way you setup a Split View with Mission Control.

Ok top of that, sadly, windows has currently less bugs than any piece of software coming out of Apple.

I wouldn’t keep going with this crusade Mac vs windows. They don’t even do it themselves anymore!
Windows came a long way and Apple fell from a very high cliff. The differences are really minimal and about taste by now.
The only reasons why I still use macOS is because I love Apple’s hardware and because of the habit but I swear at it daily because there is not a single thing you do on macOS or iOS that doesn’t have a hiccup
Install magnet, bettersnaptool, or one of a bazillion other similar apps. Now it is better than the windows version of snapping. I can type CTRL+CMD+Z (custom keyboard shortcut) to make an app go 80% of the left side of the screen. Then select another app and type CTRL+CMD+X and have it go 20%. Or just drag it to the box that appears only when dragging to do the same. Problem solved on the mac.
 
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Spaceboi Scaphandre

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 8, 2022
3,414
8,106
BUT you still cannot over come the biggest issue. Spending hundreds vs thousands.

My PC was $800.

So lets see
  • Many console games are free

PSPlus games are not free. You can only play PSPlus redeemed games if you are an active subscriber.

  • Tue modding is not a thing on consoles mostly but the upside of that is you largely also avoid cheaters.

CronosMAX says hi

  • If you really want to use a PS5 controller on Xbox, you can, just takes some extra work

Literally just had to plug it in and the controller was recognized immediately. The Dualsense has official PC drivers now. Hell even Nintendo Switch controllers work with no issues or tweaking required.

My guy do you actually play on PC?

  • So you want me to spend 500 - 700 dollars on a steam deck to play pc games? This isn't a plus for why PCs are better then consoles. I can play Xbox games on my phone and/or tablet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Through cloud while I play natively, with a controller that doesn't suck, and the ability to modify how I see fit.

  • Xbox games can run at 120 frames, conversely there are games on the PC that are capped at 60

Okay now I definitely know you're capping. The number of 120 FPS games on Xbox are minimal compared to PC

  • One word - Xbox Game subscription. You don't have to buy games and you get the latest titles including many EA titles.

We have Game Pass on PC too

  • That would be silly to buy the same game on two different platforms. Sounds like you're using logical gymnastics an in attempt to say a PC is better. Horizon Zero Dawn on the PC, guess what - you need to buy a second license, even if you own it on the playstation.

Oh boo hoo I gotta buy a game I already own again on a different platform. Why doesn't my Playstation copy work on Xbox?

It's not like Steam Sales exist or something.

  • Actual game play you would barely notice the difference and everyone I know who plays games does not play at ultra level/max level on games because of the FPS. I play Cyberpunk 2077 on the PC and I have ray tracing off, and medium setting simply because I didn't spend 2,000 on a GPU and I want better game performance.

Hmm... 🤔

What's your PC's specs?

Let me just say its silly to say the PC is better and consoles suck. We really don't need such juvenile attempts where people feel because they like one thing and so an alternative option is obviously bad. One size doesn't fit all, I provided that for so many people spending hundreds of dollars is so much better then spending thousands.

There are things that gaming on the PC is better then the console, and there are things on the console that are superior then the PC

You posted that there's little reason to buy a console, that could be true for you, but your reasons are not everyone's reasons. Googling has shown that Sony has sold somewhere in the neigborhood of 20 million PS5s, and MSFT has 15.4 million Xbox X/S sold, so clearly there are plenty of reasons to buy a console.

Hooo boy this is gonna be fun thread. It's always the memoji profile pics that get the most salty.
 

decafjava

macrumors 603
Feb 7, 2011
5,498
8,009
Geneva
My PC was $800.



PSPlus games are not free. You can only play PSPlus redeemed games if you are an active subscriber.



CronosMAX says hi



Literally just had to plug it in and the controller was recognized immediately. The Dualsense has official PC drivers now. Hell even Nintendo Switch controllers work with no issues or tweaking required.

My guy do you actually play on PC?



Through cloud while I play natively, with a controller that doesn't suck, and the ability to modify how I see fit.



Okay now I definitely know you're capping. The number of 120 FPS games on Xbox are minimal compared to PC



We have Game Pass on PC too



Oh boo hoo I gotta buy a game I already own again on a different platform. Why doesn't my Playstation copy work on Xbox?

It's not like Steam Sales exist or something.



Hmm... 🤔

What's your PC's specs?



Hooo boy this is gonna be fun thread. It's always the memoji profile pics that get the most salty.
I know the only things worse are anime or other cartoon profile pics ... uhhhh tatakae?

Seriously I see both points I don't game as I used to except for the odd flight sim flight. Usually a quick game of Crossy Road on the train or something like that.
 
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Spaceboi Scaphandre

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 8, 2022
3,414
8,106
I know the only things worse are anime or other cartoon profile pics ... uhhhh tatakae?

If you know me, I have a hatred for memojis so much, especially people who use them as profile pics. Aside from how uncanny and ugly they look, everyone who's used them as profile pics always have the worst tech takes. "No, you don't need USB-C on the iPhone. You don't need sideloading. You don't need a headphone jack. You don't need a charger in the box. You don't need right to repair. I don't need ethernet for video games my wifi is good."
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
It looks a bit like an MacOS-inspired Linux desktop,
I think we're at a point where the cross pollination is so high each platform are more similar then dissimilar. Its kind of like the automotive industry. So many mid range cars are nearly identical.

I don't mind how the taskbar looks with windows, but I've been using some utilities to alter windows 11's appearance and function (including the start button). I suspect when the time comes for win12 adoption I'll do the same.

This is one of the advantages windows (and Linux) has over MacOS. Its fairly easy to change the look, feel and operation of elements of the OS
 

Spaceboi Scaphandre

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 8, 2022
3,414
8,106
What the heck were you able to buy for $800? Mine was $1600 for a 5600X 3060Ti....

I mean, I needed that to play LOL, Teamfight Tactics, and Apex LOL!

I got my PC in 2019, an HP Omen Obelisk with a GTX 1660 Ti, an i7 9900, 16 gbs of RAM, and a 256gb SSD with a 1TB HDD, and room for an extra drive.

It has a 3060 now that I got for $300 which was pretty much free when I sold the 1660 Ti that was in it during the height of the GPU crisis 👍

What PC did you buy that it was $1600? All the prebuilts with 3060 Ti I'm finding are $1000
 
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eltoslightfoot

macrumors 68030
Feb 25, 2011
2,537
3,086
I got my PC in 2019, an HP Omen Obelisk with a GTX 1660 Ti, an i7 9900, 16 gbs of RAM, and a 256gb SSD with a 1TB HDD, and room for an extra drive.

It has a 3060 now that I got for $300 which was pretty much free when I sold the 1660 Ti that was in it during the height of the GPU crisis 👍

What PC did you buy that it was $1600? All the prebuilts with 3060 Ti I'm finding are $1000
I didn't buy it now. I bought it in 2021 :( I couldn't even get a 3060Ti so I had to go with iBuyPower.com. Now my same computer is $1249....still not $800!!!! At the time that was a bargain. The 3060Ti was over $500...
 

mxrider88

macrumors 6502a
Mar 8, 2019
812
1,008
Sydney, AU
Install magnet, bettersnaptool, or one of a bazillion other similar apps. Now it is better than the windows version of snapping. I can type CTRL+CMD+Z (custom keyboard shortcut) to make an app go 80% of the left side of the screen. Then select another app and type CTRL+CMD+X and have it go 20%. Or just drag it to the box that appears only when dragging to do the same. Problem solved on the mac.
Ok but you are missing the point.
The way it’s done by default is demential, totally illogical and unpractical. That’s all I wanted to point out.
 

decafjava

macrumors 603
Feb 7, 2011
5,498
8,009
Geneva
My PC was $800.



PSPlus games are not free. You can only play PSPlus redeemed games if you are an active subscriber.



CronosMAX says hi



Literally just had to plug it in and the controller was recognized immediately. The Dualsense has official PC drivers now. Hell even Nintendo Switch controllers work with no issues or tweaking required.

My guy do you actually play on PC?



Through cloud while I play natively, with a controller that doesn't suck, and the ability to modify how I see fit.



Okay now I definitely know you're capping. The number of 120 FPS games on Xbox are minimal compared to PC



We have Game Pass on PC too



Oh boo hoo I gotta buy a game I already own again on a different platform. Why doesn't my Playstation copy work on Xbox?

It's not like Steam Sales exist or something.



Hmm... 🤔

What's your PC's specs?



Hooo boy this is gonna be fun thread. It's always the memoji profile pics that get the most salty.
I know the only things worse are anime or other cartoon profile pics ... uhhhh tatakae?
If you know me, I have a hatred for memojis so much, especially people who use them as profile pics. Aside from how uncanny and ugly they look, everyone who's used them as profile pics always have the worst tech takes. "No, you don't need USB-C on the iPhone. You don't need sideloading. You don't need a headphone jack. You don't need a charger in the box. You don't need right to repair. I don't need ethernet for video games my wifi is good."
I don’t use Memoji myself but aside from that I agree with pretty much all your points.
I love my 13 PM but would be happy if it had USB-C and am looking forward to a new Mac for that. Right to repair is also a big deal IMO.

P.S. Love your profile pic where is it from?
 

Spaceboi Scaphandre

macrumors 68040
Original poster
Jun 8, 2022
3,414
8,106
I know the only things worse are anime or other cartoon profile pics ... uhhhh tatakae?

I don’t use Memoji myself but aside from that I agree with pretty much all your points.
I love my 13 PM but would be happy if it had USB-C and am looking forward to a new Mac for that. Right to repair is also a big deal IMO.

P.S. Love your profile pic where is it from?

It’s Futaba from Persona 5, specifically a commission of a retro space version of her phantom thief suit.

5EBB8D7A-EE6D-4BF1-AD84-F0DDA26E8AE9.png

Speaking of Persona 5, IT'S ENHANCED EDITION IS RELEASING ON ALL PLATFORMS TOMORROW LETS GOOOOOOOOOO!

p5r.jpg
 
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nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
My gaming rig cost a mere $650. With UHD monitor too. I don't know what the 'thousand dollars' rig is but it obviously doesn't represent all of 'em.
 
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maflynn

macrumors Haswell
May 3, 2009
73,682
43,740
The dock looks too thick. I hope we have the option to slim it down.
The rounded corners make it very dock like and very un-windows taskbar. I'm not really liking the minor change. It doesn't appear any thicker then the windows 11 or 10 task bar but I think the rounded corners and space around the taskbar give it that effect. In other words, while it may not be thicker it does look it.

As for me, I use a little utility that makes the trackbar transparent, so my icons appear to be floating at the bottom

1666437984018.png
 
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nickdalzell1

macrumors 68030
Dec 8, 2019
2,787
1,670
With a 20-Series or newer GPU?! 🤯
It's a Ryzen 3. I bought it in 2019. Gave it 32GB RAM. Nothing I play on it requires any more than that. Most demanding game is Flight Simulator 2020. But I mostly just enjoy casuals like Farming Simulator 17 or even Fallout 4. I don't multiplayer since griefers ruined it back in the old Call of Duty days.

There ain't been a good number of 'modern' games I actually care to play or buy. I only play games that I can actually play offline, are DRM free (no need for Steam to be online or updated) and I filled the HDD and SSD with enough titles to enjoy for quite some time.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,405
2,638
OBX
It's a Ryzen 3. I bought it in 2019. Gave it 32GB RAM. Nothing I play on it requires any more than that. Most demanding game is Flight Simulator 2020. But I mostly just enjoy casuals like Farming Simulator 17 or even Fallout 4. I don't multiplayer since griefers ruined it back in the old Call of Duty days.

There ain't been a good number of 'modern' games I actually care to play or buy. I only play games that I can actually play offline, are DRM free (no need for Steam to be online or updated) and I filled the HDD and SSD with enough titles to enjoy for quite some time.
Oh you are playing on an iGPU, that is fine.
 
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