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atMac

macrumors 6502
Jun 20, 2011
328
0
Windows 7 even runs great on the Pentium4 with 2GB 667MHz RAM we have at work that use integrated GPU's. The ONLY way that Windows 7 will run poorly on the 9 is if it had a bad driver installed or the user just have no idea what he's doing.

I've been using a Mac since 2001 and after using the Lion test and GM builds my next computer will likely be a Windows based machine. Even on my 2011 MacBook Pro at work Lion is just sluggish next to Snow Leopard and none of the changes do anything for me, they mostly just annoy be and give me more things to disable. On the other hand my Windows 7 bootcamp install flies.
 

tdfreeman

macrumors member
Nov 13, 2010
30
0
Thanks for the info. I have a long daily commute, and I cannot guarantee that I will be near a power source, so battery life is important. It's also good to know about the Office/Skydrive integration.

Keep in mind that I'm using the "Mango" developer release, so I'm not positive on what is existing features and what is new. I was impressed before installing the upgrade, but I only used it for a week before installing it, so not sure what which feature goes with what release.
 

SteelWheel

macrumors member
Apr 16, 2008
88
0
The point is that it's not Windows' fault for the crap vendors pre-install on their machines.

Wasn't Dell (at least at some point--don't know if they still are) offering "crapware-free" Windows machines? Of course, you had to pay up for the "privilege" of not having all that extra junk installed--I believe the price bump was something like $40-$50 extra.
 

chrono1081

macrumors G3
Jan 26, 2008
8,732
5,218
Isla Nublar
I sympathize OP. I work in IT and Windows is my life...at work. At home I am all Mac. For productivity you just can't beat Mac OS IMO. I get frustrated when I am on Windows and can't quicklook something, or I can't just mount or burn an ISO without having to install something like Damon tools.

I've seen a few comments here saying "Don't blame Windows for the crap PC manufacturers install" but you have no choice around it. Its what drives costs of PC's down is all the crapware the comes on it. (HP being the worst offender. HP Web printing assistant? Really??? And thats first party software!)

If someone were to get a machine without a crap Windows install like that they would have to pay for either the OEM version of Windows (which can nip you in the ass if you wipe your drive or upgrade hardware often) or the straight up full version (which is pricey).


Wasn't Dell (at least at some point--don't know if they still are) offering "crapware-free" Windows machines? Of course, you had to pay up for the "privilege" of not having all that extra junk installed--I believe the price bump was something like $40-$50 extra.

I'm not sure about Dell but I know for a fact Sony did it.
 

captainmuggles

macrumors newbie
Jul 1, 2011
26
0
I bought a Samsung series 9 thinking it would rival my air, and man was I mistaken. I forgot how clunky, slow, and unstable windows was. I will never stray again.

First of all; I OWN 6 working computers. I stress the word OWN because I don't use them all. 2 of them run on Vista and Xp respectively. (They gather dust because of the inefficiency and pitfalls of those operating systems). I have three Apple computers, Imac G4 (I love it). MacBook Air First Generation running Mac OSx version 10.5.5. (I treasure it); and a recently purchased Imac MC508LL/A with a 21.5" screen, running OSXv Snow Leopard 10.6. (no opinion because it is not set up yet), And finally a Gateway laptop running Windows 7 Ultimate. (It runs fast, smooth and cool and I use it frequently with NO PROBLEMS). The point is I have no problem with Windows 7 Ultimate. By the way, I have become an Apple User Freak in recent months and I Love my Apple computers Dearly, just to let you know!
 

62tele

macrumors 6502a
Apr 11, 2010
739
674
Are you saying that as Mac users we are obligated to extoll the virtues of Apple over Windows? Why should there be an issue with Mac users stating that they believe Win 7 is a decent OS? I'll agree that some one posting to a Mac forum that Windows or Android blows OSX/iOS away is most likely a troll, but going to the opposite extreme and condemning anything not from Apple as junk equally as ignorant.

Did I bash Windows 7? No!

I was merely commenting that the OP is doing what I would expect on a Mac form: expressing his preference for Macs over PC/windows.

I've heard that 7 is pretty decent. I have also heard it borrows concepts from OSX. Personally I DGARA about Windows and now I DGARA about this thread!
 

PDFierro

macrumors 68040
Sep 8, 2009
3,932
111
The one thing I don't understand is why the OP went to try out a Samsung simply because it's Air-like and has "better specs". Especially when a new Air is imminent. Just saying, because the OP was in fact comparing the specs of the Samsung to the current Air
 

Young Spade

macrumors 68020
Mar 31, 2011
2,156
3
Tallahassee, Florida
I've heard that 7 is pretty decent. I have also heard it borrows concepts from OSX. Personally I DGARA about Windows and now I DGARA about this thread!

No need to state this. You can just leave and save everyone the few seconds of reading the post.

Thanks for doing us all a favor in the future :)
 

captainmuggles

macrumors newbie
Jul 1, 2011
26
0
Did I bash Windows 7? No!

I was merely commenting that the OP is doing what I would expect on a Mac form: expressing his preference for Macs over PC/windows.

I've heard that 7 is pretty decent. I have also heard it borrows concepts from OSX. Personally I DGARA about Windows and now I DGARA about this thread!

Widows 7 is VERY decent and IS worth using on a PC. I personally have no preference because each machine has it's own place in the computer community. I lean towards Macs, but not radically! (Yet)!
 

2IS

macrumors 68030
Jan 9, 2011
2,938
433
Interesting. With the exception of boot times and the multi-gesture pad there's nothing I like better about OSX than Windows 7. It boots faster, doesn't run any faster though.

I've spent some time with the 9 series and I was unimpressed with the build quality and the screen resolution. The performance of the machine however was not an issue. Like I said above, with the exception of cold boot times, it did everything else at least as well as my MBA.
 

Davidkoh

macrumors 65816
Aug 2, 2008
1,060
19
It's an option when you install everything. There's "use recommended settings" or other things such as that... should be under one of those. It's always best to "choose later".

However, if it is automatically in your install, then that's very odd. I have installed Windows 7 on many different desktops and never had that problem. Three of my family members own Windows 7-based laptops which also never had this issue. But it's plausible that your version of Windows 7 could be something like the "Dell Windows 7 install disc", or some other brand, which automatically has some settings predone. The version of Windows 7 I've dealt with is specifically from the OEM disc, as well as on two Acer laptops, and one Lenovo laptop.

I installed it from a MSDNAA license. So it should be like an OEM disc. Could still be due to it being a different version I guess? Im not one of these guys who just press "next" when I install stuff and I reinstalled Win 7 multiple times from the same type of releases, never saw that though.

I will look for it when I reinstall my girls Vaio though, see if that has it.

That said, Win 7 is tons better than Vista wuth stuff that disturb your computing. Win7 is something you can use instead of XP.
 
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bchreng

macrumors 65816
Jul 26, 2005
1,063
348
Wouldn't anyone posting on a Mac board be at least a little biased towards Maca? If not then why be here at all? Or in your case, why go to a Mac board to report the unsatisfactory experience you had with a non Apple product but not explain in detail what problems you ran into or why this info is pertinent to an Apple forum?

I'm not criticizing you, I'm just not sure what your point is. I actually am pretty curious on what system you ended up with if you returned the Samsung and went back to Apple because the CURRENT crop of Airs aren't known to be that high-end in specs either.

+1

Couldn't have said it better myself. For the record, I <3 both Macs and PCs.
 

ahmak

macrumors newbie
Jul 3, 2011
12
0
I've seen a few comments here saying "Don't blame Windows for the crap PC manufacturers install" but you have no choice around it.
That's partly true. You do have a choice, 'cause you usually receive a standard Windows disc with your purchase and you can do a clean install from it. In the last few years PC manifacturers got trickier and most of them put the windows setup in a hidden, service partition and do not provide a disc with the standard version, so you have to wipe it out and download a legal RTM version of WIN 7 available on the net and install using your serial number. That's what I've been doing lately, but I have to admit that it requires a bit of knowledge and it is not a straight forward process, keeping in mind, that after Win installation you have to install specific drivers from manifacturer's site in order to obtain the full set of features on the particular laptop. The improvement in Windows performance is huge, really. So it is the crappy software from PC manifacturers and all the "demo" soft. they love to embed in the factory installation.
And yes, that's what keeps the price down, so i guess you have either to pay less and do more, or pay more and do less in order to obtain the same result.
 

Curren~Sea

macrumors regular
Jun 21, 2006
178
0
Vancouver, BC
Troll.

W7 is very good. But it's like anything else. Use the right tool (computer) for your job and you'll be much more efficient.

It's hard to compete with the out of box experience of a Mac. However, my Lenovo X220 laptop was also a very positive experience.
 

Azathoth

macrumors 6502a
Sep 16, 2009
659
0
No I don't... its a given that windows based pc's are junk. You can google your own data. Or walk into a any best buy across the U.S. and see what they service.

Its the reason people jumped all over this thread. Because they now pc's are terrible.

Well allow me to retort..

Correction: cheap junk is junk.

My Thinkpad T60, a 1.86GHz C2D, 2GB RAM from 2007 still has 90% battery capacity. Runs Windows 7 well - about 3 crashes in 2 years, including the Beta and RC - about the same as SL on my MBP15.

It cost 2/3 of what my MBP15 did. I can carry it horizontally single-handed by the furthest edge of the screen (i.e. maximum stress on the hinges and display). The MBP15 bends if you hold the body with one hand (to wit: my colleague as a 7mm bend by the ethernet port)

Since Windows 7 I pretty much don't need to install any drivers (Win7 finds them all automagically), the fingerprint reader is useful - instead of typing my admin pw, like I need to do for OS X, I have my ring finger setup as admin, and my middle finger as my normal user.

Virus scanners? Microsoft Security Essentials is free and works well (BTW SL has it's own anti.malware - Apple just doesn't want people to realise that exploits are possible for *any* OS).

Constant updates? Win7 has more OS updates, than SL - but these are typically 2nd Tuesday of the month (i.e. 12/year). On OS X the applications and plugins require updating just as frequently as on the PC.

All-in-all I have started preferring OS X to Win7, because I spend time sshing and 'ln -s'-ing, and sometimes gcc'ing, which OS X has built-in. But stability is about the same for both, and OS X also needs some maintenance at times (Repair permissions, deleting certain plists when the Network settings get messed up for no reason).
 

falconeight

Guest
Original poster
Apr 6, 2010
1,866
2
I never knew people felt so strongly about defending windows. I still think its junk pieced together through many years. It has out lived its uselessness and needs to be replaced. My whole life I have owned windows and they just keep stacking more and more onto it.
 

orfeas0

macrumors 6502a
Aug 21, 2010
971
1
Athens, Greece
I never knew people felt so strongly about defending windows. I still think its junk pieced together through many years. It has out lived its uselessness and needs to be replaced. My whole life I have owned windows and they just keep stacking more and more onto it.

Why don't you try and think why they keep stacking more and more? I don't think "bad things" are usually stacking more and more, it usually means people like it better than its competitors.

Windows CAN'T be junk pieced together as they are software, you can't even touch them.
If you mean Computers coming preinstalled with windows, that's just your opinion. It doesn't seem that junk to someone who spends a month's salary for a laptop, while a macbook requires at least 2 month's salaries, does it?
 

PaulWog

Suspended
Jun 28, 2011
700
103
Why don't you try and think why they keep stacking more and more? I don't think "bad things" are usually stacking more and more, it usually means people like it better than its competitors.

Windows CAN'T be junk pieced together as they are software, you can't even touch them.
If you mean Computers coming preinstalled with windows, that's just your opinion. It doesn't seem that junk to someone who spends a month's salary for a laptop, while a macbook requires at least 2 month's salaries, does it?

Maybe he's just thinking of a bad experience with a PC salesman? When someone goes to an Apple store, they usually get what they want pretty easily. They have to pay a premium no matter what, since Apple computers tend to start at the $1000 price-point approximately. So they're going to get that minimum satisfaction level.

When someone goes to buy a PC from say... Best Buy... the salesperson is there to clear out old material, sell warranties, and get his minimum sales quotas in. For that reason, people are going to buy cheap stuff, or spend lots on expensive junk. If they did their own research, or went to a more reputable store (or are lucky and find a responsible & knowledgeable employee at a store like Best Buy), then the consumer will get what he's looking for. I am an educated consumer. I went to NCIX and purchased all my computer parts separately, and assembled the computer myself. Had I not been so experienced, I could've gone to NCIX and paid for all my parts, and then paid them $50 to assemble it for me (I'm using NCIX as an example, it's in Canada near me... there's obviously lots of places like Newegg, Fry's, and other online and physical retailers that sell computers and computer parts).

So really it comes down to this:

Apple is a one-stop shop. It's easy. You walk in, there's very specific products with very specific and clear-cut uses, and you pick what you need and you're done.

PC buying requires a little more research. It's not a one-stop-shop. It's just different. There's a lot more variety. That means there's a lot more junk, and a lot more choices on the high-end of things as well. Sure, we can focus on the low-end and say "hey look there's so much JUNK they sell!", but that would be biased and uninformed bashing; that would be like saying "Apple sells horrible computers I bought the Mac Mini and it won't play Crysis 2 at max settings!". Everything has its purpose, its pricepoint, and its reason for being on the market. If a consumer buys something at a low pricepoint expecting it to fulfill the purpose of something that costs a lot more, then they will not be satisfied. If a consumer buys something at a high pricepoint without doing their research, and they find out that product was overpriced at the store they bought it at, then they won't be satisfied.

Simple logic, simple thinking; that's all it takes to stop being so biased about this whole argument.
 

bniu

macrumors 65816
Mar 21, 2010
1,125
306
here's what I tell my friends who constantly talk how PCs have better specs for the same price, a windows PC is like having a car capable of going 200 MPH that is software constrained to go only about 60 MPH. A Mac is a car capable of 150 MPH that is software optimized to go 150 MPH.

another argument I once had with someone was how my 12 inch PC screen could be more expensive than someone else's 15 inch screen. I replied mine was 1400x1050 while there's was a paltry 1024x768. It's all about the resolution.


A paraphrase of Will Muschamps: "Specs are for losers, I like great performances"
 

PaulWog

Suspended
Jun 28, 2011
700
103
here's what I tell my friends who constantly talk how PCs have better specs for the same price, a windows PC is like having a car capable of going 200 MPH that is software constrained to go only about 60 MPH. A Mac is a car capable of 150 MPH that is software optimized to go 150 MPH.

A paraphrase of Will Muschamps: "Specs are for losers, I like great performances"

Again, you are misinformed.

How is it that you think Windows 7 is constrained? Do you really think my i7 2600k computer with a 6970 and 8GB of 1600MHz RAM is going to run slower because it's running on Windows 7? Of course that's not the case!

Of course you won't be able to provide a plethora of up-to-date numbers to back your claims, because they are fanboy claims. Simply untrue.
 

KillerTree

macrumors regular
Jul 27, 2008
242
201
here's what I tell my friends who constantly talk how PCs have better specs for the same price, a windows PC is like having a car capable of going 200 MPH that is software constrained to go only about 60 MPH. A Mac is a car capable of 150 MPH that is software optimized to go 150 MPH.

another argument I once had with someone was how my 12 inch PC screen could be more expensive than someone else's 15 inch screen. I replied mine was 1400x1050 while there's was a paltry 1024x768. It's all about the resolution.


A paraphrase of Will Muschamps: "Specs are for losers, I like great performances"

How is a Windows computer software constrained?

Also there are many Windows laptops with 1080p screens.
 

Young Spade

macrumors 68020
Mar 31, 2011
2,156
3
Tallahassee, Florida
Simple logic, simple thinking; that's all it takes to stop being so biased about this whole argument.


Sadly people who actually think like this are few and far in between. I'm constantly in contact with people just just don't know how to do this: think clearly. They get caught up in what they think they know and forget that they don't know anything. That quote? the one about the smartest men know they know nothing? Something like that.

That quote isn't around because it's catchy. Thanks for the great post; hopefully more people who don't already think this way will read it and learn something from it.

Prime example? The quote below \/\/


here's what I tell my friends who constantly talk how PCs have better specs for the same price, a windows PC is like having a car capable of going 200 MPH that is software constrained to go only about 60 MPH. A Mac is a car capable of 150 MPH that is software optimized to go 150 MPH.
 

2IS

macrumors 68030
Jan 9, 2011
2,938
433
here's what I tell my friends who constantly talk how PCs have better specs for the same price, a windows PC is like having a car capable of going 200 MPH that is software constrained to go only about 60 MPH. A Mac is a car capable of 150 MPH that is software optimized to go 150 MPH.

another argument I once had with someone was how my 12 inch PC screen could be more expensive than someone else's 15 inch screen. I replied mine was 1400x1050 while there's was a paltry 1024x768. It's all about the resolution.


A paraphrase of Will Muschamps: "Specs are for losers, I like great performances"

1) Retarded analogy, not to mention untrue

2) There are Sony and Dell screens with much higher resolution density than MacBooks

It has nothing to do with "PC" it has to do with purchasing decisions the consumer makes. You can configure PC's that contain zero bloatware with performance that will walk all over any Mac if you want to spend the money. The diference is that PC's also cover the very low end of the spectrum and that's what most consumers go for.

So yeah, that $400 laptop you see advertised in they Fry's ad isn't going to have the screen quality as a MacBook, but a new $2500 Sony Vaio Z series will. And guess what, they're both PC's.
 

bp1000

macrumors 65832
Jul 7, 2011
1,502
249
Credit where credit's due, Windows 7 is a better operating system (than previous windows versions). Maybe even a good operating system.

I use Ubuntu now before i get my new air soon.

Recently i had to set up a wireless network with bridging through my parents house. I used their old vista laptop to do it. My god what a load of rubbish that was. I also used their main win7 PC and it is defiantly a lot more functional, quicker and more intuitive. I also used it on my laptop before installing Ubuntu and it was good but i found Ubuntu so much better.

However, Windows 8 won't suit me so i'm glad i will never get to experience it now i'm switching to macs. I have an xbox and this whole left to right / sideways scrolling thing makes me feel physically sick. I just can't look at the screen on my xbox. I hate it, with a passion. Now they are adding this tile based sideways scrolling home screen into windows 8 where you can control everything. Granted some of the features look nice but it's touch centric and the sideways thing just isn't for me.

My eyes can handle up and down but fast swiping and blurring left to right is like being on a round about ride, my eyes can't focus and think i'm ingesting toxins and make me feel sick. So there you have it, windows 8 makes me vomit.
 
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