Windows is just better.

[Ethosik]

You're having a lot of issues with your system, very odd some of those like just connecting two monitors causes a kernel panic. Not representative of my experience, sounds like your system is faulty to be honest.

Nope, this is what is frustrating when people just blame the hardware. Tests show fine, Windows 10 and Mojave run without any issues. The minute Catalina has external monitors connected and goes to sleep, there are freezes or kernel panics. Its made its way to Apple Senior Engineering team, so there is an issue. Be lucky you don't have the issue, but its definitely not a hardware issue.

Seems to be most common with Vega GPUs and extra monitors and sleep mode.

 

[dogslobber]

I’m with ya dude. I have a 2015 13” MBP and a gaming PC and Catalina runs like **** on my Mac. Win 10 is way quicker and faster. Sure, macos is still “prettier” but it’s slow with useless animations and bloated. Just an example, the “new” music app is complete slow garbage. Apples own apps are no longer slick and fast. They are pretty UIs stripped of features and bogged down.

Recent version are definitely bloated as you need about 8GB to use Catalina but can get by with Win10 on 2GB. Win10 also feels faster on the same hardware so given the 4x memory footprint Mac OS needs, M$ must be onto something.

 

[dogslobber]

Again, this is not due to Agile. It's due to bad agile implementations. Agile in and of itself is not the issue.

And there are mutiple variations of Agile: Scrum, LeSS, SAFe, DAD, Holistic, Nexus etc...

It's not the framework, it's how it's implemented.

They're all trash. This ultimately comes from web development where requirements are not written down. It doesn't work for developing an OS which is built on requirements gathering at a long duration software life cycle. The unfortunate aspect is that given the volume of web development relative to other software being written, non-web development software product life cycles get drowned in the noise. Doesn't stop agile and its variations being trash.

 

[Jack Neill]

My MacBook Pro 16” with macOS Catalina is just meh; it’s buggy, kernel panics when I simple connect two monitors, it’s unstable with Logic Pro X and some plugins, etc. It sucks, I can even reproduce a kernel panic with the AirPods Pro.

Btw Xcode is another trash app, I mean you need to reinstall the whole thing if you want some stuff working again and the autocomplete feature only works sometimes. it’s the stupidest KDE ever made, bloated as ****, for any “new feature” introduced there are 50 new bugs.

Meanwhile my other laptop, a Lenovo thinkpad with windows 10 “just works”, it takes 11 seconds to boot and browse on chrome, it never fails, I can connect whatever I want without any issues, it is reliable at everything and it has an i5.

I don’t understand why some people claim macOS Catalina works flawlessly well for them, it’s not true, otherwise at least one of the Apple devices at home should work as they describe on macOS Catalina, but they don’t. Please stop lying to others.

I wanna know if it’s possible to downgrade my iMac to High Sierra and block any update, my MacBook Pro is ready to collect dust on a table. I hate it, I wish there were a way to downgrade to Mojave, but there’s not. It’s stuck on the worst operating system ever made, I bet a Linux distro built in some basement works better.

Yes it’s a rant because I can’t believe their latest software made for the hardware they build can fail in such ways. Totally dissatisfied and disappointed. **** Apple and their quality control when it comes to the MacBook Pro and macOS.

PS: My battery life is at 97% after 16 cycles. Da heck, I am pretty sure macOS Catalina 10.15.4 kills the battery while failing.

PPS:No, it’s not my unit, my mum’s MacBook Pro 16” battery life is at 95.7% after 46 cycles.

Both laptops were bought in different stores at different times.

You're right the laptop is trash. If you want I will recycle it for you. I'll even pay to have you ship it to me. Let me know.

 

[Quu]

Nope, this is what is frustrating when people just blame the hardware. Tests show fine, Windows 10 and Mojave run without any issues. The minute Catalina has external monitors connected and goes to sleep, there are freezes or kernel panics. Its made its way to Apple Senior Engineering team, so there is an issue. Be lucky you don't have the issue, but its definitely not a hardware issue.

Seems to be most common with Vega GPUs and extra monitors and sleep mode.

Well I didn't say hardware I said system. The system encompasses the hardware and software. Installing bad software on a machine can affect its stability. We've seen in other threads where people had trackpad issues with the new 16" MacBook Pro when having VMWare Fusion installed for example.

Personally I've had no problems with Catalina but I'm running a fresh install on a new machine and I'm only using third party software that has noted compatibility with Catalina.

I do not have any issues.

 

[tomi03]

Well I didn't say hardware I said system. The system encompasses the hardware and software. Installing bad software on a machine can affect its stability. We've seen in other threads where people had trackpad issues with the new 16" MacBook Pro when having VMWare Fusion installed for example.

Personally I've had no problems with Catalina but I'm running a fresh install on a new machine and I'm only using third party software that has noted compatibility with Catalina.

I do not have any issues.

I do the same, and there’s ton of treads about random kernel panics when you connect external devices that worked on Mojave.

 

[Quu]

I do the same, and there’s ton of treads about random kernel panics when you connect external devices that worked on Mojave.

What kind of external devices? - I'm using a Thunderbolt 3 dock and two monitors, one 4K and one 2.5K. The Thunderbolt 3 dock has dual Display Port on it, I use both of those. It also has SD card reader and USB-C ports which I use with camera cards and thumbsticks. It has 1Gb Ethernet which I use too.

No problems with any of that stuff and no kernel panics it all.. just works. I believe I'm using the same Mac as you right, 16"?

 

[duffman9000]

One of my employees at work went through three Windows based laptops since mid 2018 and one of them required a reinstall of Windows after an update went bad.

Another is still on the same MacBook from 2017 with zero issues.

This of course proves nothing more than 'Computers will be computers'. Some will be brilliant, some lousy.

None of it is proof of "my OS is better than your OS".

My work laptops with Windows go to ****. Maybe it's the mandatory updates from corporate. My home Windows 10 system has never seen a reinstall. Same holds true for my prior machines (Windows 8 and 7).

My MBP has never seen an OS reinstall. It's failing only because of the dreaded GPU hardware bug, but not because of the OS.

Over the life of my systems my MBP has crashed more, but the count is so low I don't hold it against it.

 

[TiggrToo]

They're all trash. This ultimately comes from web development where requirements are not written down. It doesn't work for developing an OS which is built on requirements gathering at a long duration software life cycle. The unfortunate aspect is that given the volume of web development relative to other software being written, non-web development software product life cycles get drowned in the noise. Doesn't stop agile and its variations being trash.

I'm going to have to very very strongly disagree with you there.

The basic concepts of Agile predates web development, going back the the early 70s.

Scrum certainly predates the birth of the big bang on the Internet, being introduced in the mid 1980s.

I myself have been involved in Waterfall, Agile and even PRINCE2 (when working for the British Army).

Any Watetfall project has always gone totally ass over head and been an unmitigated disaster.

PRINCE2 was so loaded with documentation requirements that I was writing recommendation documents long long after we'd brought the hardware I was recommending. As a resul the project ended up millions of £ over budget and 3 years late.

The only successful projects I have worked on have been the ones using a version of agile. There are thousands of people out there who have also worked on very successful agile based projects.

However, as I said before, when there's no buy in from the business, it can go pear shaped real fast.

I can only guess you have never been on a successful Agile project.

We spent 2.5 years trying to do a combined SAP & Hybris migration before we threw in the towel having poured several $m down the hole.

We regrouped, replanned and then started again, almost from scratch with SAP and a different eComn solution.

And Agile.

We went live just 6 months later.

Are there bugs? Damn right there are. However we're now triaging them and working on them in a methodical fashion.

And this was without complete buy in from the business.

If you want an agile project to fail, you can make that happen quite easily.

 

[buttongerald]

I have a late 2013 21" iMac. It has macOS Catalina and a Bootcamp partition of the latests version of Windows 10.

Windows 10 runs far better on this machine than the OS that's basically designed for it.

Every task just runs smoother in Windows 10. As a former World of Warcraft player, I could ONLY play the game on Windows. Running it on macOS was met with game lock ups, insane frame-rate drops, and random crashes. This was also not limited to Catalina, as similar things would occur in Mojave. Even after multiple installs of the OS, these issues persisted on macOS, but never in Windows 10.

Running the latest release of the Adobe Creative Cloud applications has similar occurrences. The latest version of Photoshop runs extremely slow in macOS and CONSTANTLY hangs up when opening panels or adjusting settings. This does happen in Windows, but usually in VERY large images or if I have a lot of documents open, where as in macOS it can trigger with just one open file.

I have a sad feeling that the next release of macOS will either be the last to support my iMac, or won't support it at all.. but that's okay, I have made plans to build a custom machine to spare myself of future iHeadaches. Plus they killed Aperture, that REALLY pissed me off.

 

[tomi03]

What kind of external devices? - I'm using a Thunderbolt 3 dock and two monitors, one 4K and one 2.5K. The Thunderbolt 3 dock has dual Display Port on it, I use both of those. It also has SD card reader and USB-C ports which I use with camera cards and thumbsticks. It has 1Gb Ethernet which I use too.

No problems with any of that stuff and no kernel panics it all.. just works. I believe I'm using the same Mac as you right, 16"?

I use the official adapter to connect the monitors, and a hub made by qdos for SD cards and stuff with the normal usb port. (https://www.qdossound.com/products/qdos-powerlink-mini?variant=29057159233641)

 

[johnnnw]

MacOS has gotten progressively worse the last 10 years, no doubt about that. It used to a very light and flawless OS, Apple isn't what it used to be! Macbook hardware same story. Apple is a phone company now.

 

[fisherking]

MacOS has gotten progressively worse the last 10 years, no doubt about that. It used to a very light and flawless OS, Apple isn't what it used to be! Macbook hardware same story. Apple is a phone company now.

funny, some of us think it's gotten better. i mean, i wouldn't trade catalina (or my 2019 imac) for snow leopard and a 2010 imac. but knock yourself out...

 

[buttongerald]

It used to a very light and flawless OS

I wouldn't go that far. Nothing is perfect except for Columbo.

I remember in Leopard and Snow Leopard there was an amazing little glitch that could be triggered by my Logitech USB Gamepad, in that if I unplugged it from the iMac (My first iMac, the first generation with Intel) for ANY reason, it would cause a kernel panic. I don't know if this was fixed in Lion or Mountain Lion, as I had a windows based machine for those few years, not until returning to the Mac until mid-point into Mavericks life.

 

[Billiejoe87]

Catalina is probably the worst Mac OS released since Lion in regards to overall stability, but it's still not terrible. I wouldn't say Windows 10 is any better though. I think Windows 7 was the pinnacle in terms of stability vs performance vs features on the Windows side.

This is all a religious war anyway. The days of Mac OS being infinitely more stable and user friendly than Windows and the days of Windows having all the 3rd party app support are over. Both are good choices for everyday use. I choose Mac OS as personally I prefer the look of Mac OS, I like apple hardware and support and I love the continuity with other apple devices. This is all just personal opinion and each to their own. Clearly HP, Dell & Microsoft are building great machines now as well which is good for all of us when it comes to competition.

 

[sundialsoft]

My MacBook Pro 16” with macOS Catalina is just meh; it’s buggy, kernel panics when I simple connect two monitors, it’s unstable with Logic Pro X and some plugins, etc. It sucks, I can even reproduce a kernel panic with the AirPods Pro.

Btw Xcode is another trash app, I mean you need to reinstall the whole thing if you want some stuff working again and the autocomplete feature ........

I have used Xcode for a long time on mac mini, white MacBook, mbp and mba. My only gripe with it is the amount of space needed to instal it (and needs a built-in tidy up feature). Having spent a huge number of years with Windows all the way back to 3.1 with most dev work in visual studio I feel that while visual studio is a more mature product Xcode is at lease in the same ballpark and Apple have to deal with all the screen sizes etc.
I find macOS to be stable. I can count the number of crashes on one hand over all the years of using.

 

[manny88]

1. I'm running the latest version of Catalina (10.15.4)
2. on my 2017 12" Macbook base model (m3, 8GB RAM)
3. while connected to an external 4k display @ 60Hz
4. while also using the internal retina display @ 60Hz (extended mode, not mirror)
5. while also running Windows 7 in a Parellels VM (1.75GB RAM, 256MB vRAM) in coherence mode
6. while also connected to my Sandisk 500GB SSD, 250GB used for Time Machine automatic hourly backups

And everything is running buttery smooth, EVERYTHING! It's unbelievable to be honest.

I also have a Ryzen gaming PC with a 1080ti running on Windows 7, as I refuse to use that abomination called Windows 10. It will be my last PC for gaming, but I'm glad I can stay up date for my work/sensitive info with MacOS instead.

 

[dogslobber]

I'm going to have to very very strongly disagree with you there.

The basic concepts of Agile predates web development, going back the the early 70s.

Scrum certainly predates the birth of the big bang on the Internet, being introduced in the mid 1980s.

I myself have been involved in Waterfall, Agile and even PRINCE2 (when working for the British Army).

Any Watetfall project has always gone totally ass over head and been an unmitigated disaster.

PRINCE2 was so loaded with documentation requirements that I was writing recommendation documents long long after we'd brought the hardware I was recommending. As a resul the project ended up millions of £ over budget and 3 years late.

The only successful projects I have worked on have been the ones using a version of agile. There are thousands of people out there who have also worked on very successful agile based projects.

However, as I said before, when there's no buy in from the business, it can go pear shaped real fast.

I can only guess you have never been on a successful Agile project.

We spent 2.5 years trying to do a combined SAP & Hybris migration before we threw in the towel having poured several $m down the hole.

We regrouped, replanned and then started again, almost from scratch with SAP and a different eComn solution.

And Agile.

We went live just 6 months later.

Are there bugs? Damn right there are. However we're now triaging them and working on them in a methodical fashion.

And this was without complete buy in from the business.

If you want an agile project to fail, you can make that happen quite easily.

Here's my view on it.

RAD was born out of rejection of waterfall models and it has a place in the world but not where we're at right now. My observation is that it's gained cult like status and has lead to socialist programming. If you say anything negative about it then you're viewed as a heretic who needs to be cast out. It also has lead to lego programming where anybody can get enough attempts to eventually get it 'right'. This socialist programming has morphed to become 'proper' programming as it's the de facto method the programming armies of today understand. It's deeply embedded in web development where 90% of lego programmers find themselves.

Unfortunately socialist programming also gives micro-managers back the keys to the kingdom by allowing them to interject their cadre and force their control. Lego programmers don't know any different and seasoned developers are viewed as difficult and shipped out at first opportunity.

Agile has destroyed programming.

 

[D1STORT1ON]

I have had constant problems with my Surface Book (performance base). Wi-fi stops working, touch unresponsive, disconnection of the screen, etc. Every update from Microsoft seems to fix several problems while breaking tons of important stuff. What problems I've had with Catalina are nothing compared to the daily issues I had with the surface.

 

[vault]

Catalina runs stable for me on a long unsupported, 12 years old MBP. It's actually the best release since Snow Leopard when it comes to performance and stability. I do not use it with external monitors, though, and as you can imagine I do not do much work on it anymore.

I also use Windows 10 since early release previews and apart from the mess that was the userspace and apps, the core OS has always been rock solid for me.

 

[Elijen]

Both OSes are buggy at the moment. SW quality went down dramatically in the last few years. Probably because the cost of development went up.

Windows has terrible UX/DX but they seem to be improving much faster than macOS so I can see Windows being ahead soon if macOS does not step up its game.
[automerge]1587998389[/automerge]

Catalina runs stable for me on a long unsupported, 12 years old MBP. It's actually the best release since Snow Leopard when it comes to performance and stability. I do not use it with external monitors, though, and as you can imagine I do not do much work on it anymore.
View attachment 909768
I also use Windows 10 since early release previews and apart from the mess that was the userspace and apps, the core OS has always been rock solid for me.

Wait ... does macOS Catalina support NVIDIA again?

 

[vault]

Wait ... does macOS Catalina support NVIDIA again?

I would assume these are old MacOS drivers ported to Catalina. The same way when you use Catalina on a supported Mac with Nvidia graphics? I don't know, there is a very extensive Unsupported Macs thread in this forum where you could ask.

 

[MacBH928]

Its not just Apple though. I have been through many problems with Windows 10 updates. First big update removed software. Update after that broke all desktop and start menu shortcuts and broke Windows Update. Microsoft addressed this but to get the fix I had to use the Catalog website as Windows Update was broken. Next update caused a corrupted Windows install on 10 of our 20 workstations at work for development and testing. We used Acronis so we just restored a backup and postponed the update. Then the most recent one where user's documents folder was getting deleted. I never experienced this but it was widely known and Microsoft pulled the update because of it.

I am also experiencing issues with Adobe software on both Windows and Mac that never existed before. There was one really bad issue in the 2018 release I believe where when I exported a video, the last 5 seconds repeated itself.

Video games are also suffering from this too. Bad glitches after the games being postponed for years. Day one updates fixing bad bugs. Some games have bugs as bad as corrupting saves.

Like I said before, things need to get back to the 3-4 year releases. I never had so many problems with both Microsoft or Apple. Yet with Windows 10 and now Catalina its a very bad time. Sure Windows Vista might have been a LITTLE bit of a problem, but after SP1 it was great IMO. I had powerful hardware that was able to run it without any issues and it wasn't as bad as people say. UAC was a bit of an annoyance but that is all it was, an annoyance. So from Windows 98 to Windows 7 have all been very good minus Windows ME. Longer development time seems to help remove some of these bugs. I mean how can you release an update that broke ALL shortcuts?!

I am no programmer, but one time someone explained to me that current software is much more buggier because its much more complex. He made a comparison saying, imagine an earthquake hits and skyscraper falls but a small hut stands still.

I personally hate the constant updates like it s a rolling release, I wish if we could go back when software was stable and updated it like once every 6 months. FireFox and Chrome has a new update almost on a weekly basis.

 

[imrazor]

1. I'm running the latest version of Catalina (10.15.4)
2. on my 2017 12" Macbook base model (m3, 8GB RAM)
3. while connected to an external 4k display @ 60Hz
4. while also using the internal retina display @ 60Hz (extended mode, not mirror)
5. while also running Windows 7 in a Parellels VM (1.75GB RAM, 256MB vRAM) in coherence mode
6. while also connected to my Sandisk 500GB SSD, 250GB used for Time Machine automatic hourly backups

And everything is running buttery smooth, EVERYTHING! It's unbelievable to be honest.

Well that kind of blows the whole "complex setups make Catalina choke" theory. I'm not doubting those who say they are having issues, but wondering what the root cause could be.

Wait ... does macOS Catalina support NVIDIA again?

Only very old Nvidia GPUs (Kepler or before), and not very well at that.

 

[AxiomaticRubric]

I thought it might be worth pointing out: Many of the problems we have seen with Catalina stem from the route Apple has taken with core OS development. The quality has suffered because the bean counters in their infinite wisdom send much of the QA and development work to contractors.

Whenever you have multiple contractors in bidding wars for projects with a major software provider, quality always suffers. The contractors have no obligation to provide quality work. They exist only to get the contracts and get them completed on time.

Apple needs to re-evaluate the situation and be very selective with how they implement contract labour.

Regarding accusations of lying: Every Windows and Mac is a very complex machine. There are simply too many variables to account for. Depending on your exact set-up and installed apps, you may have a horrible experience or a perfect one, or anything in-between. In some cases problems are caused by 3rd party apps. Not every developer keeps things up to date despite Apple's warnings and recommendations each year at WWDC. In other cases Apple or its contractors failed to properly complete QA procedures. And of course some cases are down to rotten luck.

My MacBook Pro 16” with macOS Catalina is just meh; it’s buggy, kernel panics when I simple connect two monitors, it’s unstable with Logic Pro X and some plugins, etc. It sucks, I can even reproduce a kernel panic with the AirPods Pro.

Btw Xcode is another trash app, I mean you need to reinstall the whole thing if you want some stuff working again and the autocomplete feature only works sometimes. it’s the stupidest KDE ever made, bloated as ****, for any “new feature” introduced there are 50 new bugs.

Meanwhile my other laptop, a Lenovo thinkpad with windows 10 “just works”, it takes 11 seconds to boot and browse on chrome, it never fails, I can connect whatever I want without any issues, it is reliable at everything and it has an i5.

I don’t understand why some people claim macOS Catalina works flawlessly well for them, it’s not true, otherwise at least one of the Apple devices at home should work as they describe on macOS Catalina, but they don’t. Please stop lying to others.

I wanna know if it’s possible to downgrade my iMac to High Sierra and block any update, my MacBook Pro is ready to collect dust on a table. I hate it, I wish there were a way to downgrade to Mojave, but there’s not. It’s stuck on the worst operating system ever made, I bet a Linux distro built in some basement works better.

Yes it’s a rant because I can’t believe their latest software made for the hardware they build can fail in such ways. Totally dissatisfied and disappointed. **** Apple and their quality control when it comes to the MacBook Pro and macOS.

PS: My battery life is at 97% after 16 cycles. Da heck, I am pretty sure macOS Catalina 10.15.4 kills the battery while failing.

PPS:No, it’s not my unit, my mum’s MacBook Pro 16” battery life is at 95.7% after 46 cycles.

Both laptops were bought in different stores at different times.