I've never downloaded bootcamp, but i've run Windows in a VM on every Mac I've owned, so if Apple is just looking at bootcamp as the number of Mac users that need Windws, they are sadly out of touch. In fact, if the Windows in a VM on arm situation doesn't get better, I've bought my last Mac, and I wasted my money on the last one.
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Windows on M1?
- Thread starter Kierkegaarden
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I don't know what containerized GUI apps @mi7chy is talking about but if you were using Linux (or other Unix type OS) you would run an X client in the container and use XQuartz as the GUI. Horrible UI but people who have used X for years are probably used to it.
You could also use a lightweight window server and then connect with VNC... I do it regularly on our remote cloud machines. Yeah, it’s pretty much horrible but it makes sense if you want to run GUI apps on remote machines. I just can’t think of a reason why one would want to use this on a local desktop, especially if ones has something like Parallels with their seamless mode.
Then you bought the wrong computer in the first place because if you can't live your life on Mac without Windows installed on it and you're willing to leave Macs altogether if this can't happen then a Windows machine should've been your only computer in the first place because it sounds like you have zero need for MacOS. I never understand these types of posts and the purchase decisions people make. Apple doesn't owe it you or anyone to make sure Windows is installable on Macs. That's why they have their own OS. SMH.
The only reason I can think of is to create the equivalent of a thin client for easy deployment. You could set up multiple machines with a very small amount of standardized software and then use a central server to deploy applications as needed. But this doesn't seem very useful to me. Maybe something a very locked down enterprise would do?
No, I bought the computer I *********WANTED*********, no matter how much of a mac purest *you* are. I've had absolutely no problems until the Mac M1's came out, and I had no expectation I would have new problems given what Apple said when they introd' the M1's. There's no reason to own a Mac if I can't do what I need to do and can do on any other OS I may be running on a laptop or desktop. I *like* Mac's and want to own them at home, even though there are non-mac things I want to do with them ******AS WELL***** as running Mac stuff. I can't run my Mac stuff on my Windows machines either, and by your definition, that means I should only own a Mac! (logic error!)
I never understand your type of posts either, trying to limit what others want to fit your idea about what we should all want to run on Mac's and should we even get Mac's at all. So limited a mindset! Computers are very versatile machines by design, they fit a LOT of uses, even Macs. And actually, Apple does owe me something -- to live by what they say. (and of course, hardware and software warranties.) I have a LOT of apple hardware.
Containers work very well in that type of environment. For littler shops, not so much.
Oh I didn't realize my eyes were bad and could only read text in full caps. ?
Because I'm stating the obvious based on what you stated earlier doesn't make me a purest. I work in a mixed tech environment but I buy what works for me and not try and turn something into something it's not.
Of course because you were running Windows on your Intel Mac, as you've made clear. ?
Apple made no promises that M1 Macs would be running Windows either in Bootcamp or in VM's. They made it clear that Linux would be the only supported OS on a VM at the time of the M1 announcement.
Exactly and that's why I said you bought the wrong computer. Apparently you're not reading anything you wrote earlier. SMH.
Logic error indeed but on your part, not mine sir. You said verbatim, "If Apple can't fix this so you can run Windows on a VM then it's the last Mac you will own." You are stating that you're just fine with running 100% Windows, which brings back to my original post stating you bought the wrong computer in the first place.
You're throwing more into it because you're were quoted for your own words.
Your insults are unnecessary. ?
Apple owes customers a working laptop that runs MacOS backed by a warranty. That's what they make them to do. They owe you nothing past that. Have a good day and chill!
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Given what you say I can't think otherwise.
You are not stating the obvious, that's only your opinion of what you think I need or want.
Get this through your head, I run Mac stuff and I run Windows stuff, and I need both in the same machine.
Only in a VM. I also run Linux and a couple of other oddball OS's in a VM. (I'm an OS geek and have a computer science degree...) I work as an IT Manager in a Windows shop, but I do a LOT more at home with other OS's.
Incorrect. You need to watch the Apple event again.
And you're totally wrong, you are the one not reading what I say. I need both Mac and Windows in the same machine.
LOL!!
NOWHERE did I say I didn't want a Mac. It's true, *new* Mac's are less useful now, and I probably wont buy another one without a Windows ability in a VM, but I still have multiple Mac's that will work for some time to come, and there's no reason I can't purchase used machines. I actually think the Windows problem will be solved, contrary to what you say, but I am the impatient type...
Your messages are no less insulting to me.
We disagree, fine, but I'm just going by what Apple said, and there is something like an implied warrantee in such situations.
This is another story, but Nvidia is the one to blame, not the Linux foundation.
Nvidia:
- Refuses to provide open-source driver
- And they are actively preventing others to make one
Apple is not better in this case though, let's see how much we can get for bare metal Linux on Apple Silicon.
Much of this lies on Microsoft. Apple doesn't really have a say in the matter. I want Apple to focus on MacOS and making Macs better, not another company's OS. It's only a need for a small niche. Some people here need to chill. Glad I don't lose my temper over an OS. ?
Well, at least Nvidia was trying to provide something. At the same time, I don’t think it’s fair to blame a company for refusing to provide an open source driver. Everyone is entitled to their choices after all.
I doubt we will ever see useable native Linux on M1 - too niche, too complicated, no clear benefit (you can run Linux in a VM today with excellent performance). And while incredible people like Alyssa Rosenzweig and Dougall Johnson are doing some really impressive work reverse-engineering the Apple GPU, I am very skeptical about these efforts ever actually culminating in a fully working driver stack.
Well they know how many people install Bootcamp because the first thing it does is download the required files from Apple.
Other than having someone come out with a full x86 emulator, it's almost all on Microsoft. They chose a bad way to emulate x86 Windows with Windows on Arm, they could have done better. I'm not sure WOA will ever be good enough to satisfy me, though not having to run a preview build might help! I know too many people at Mircosoft to be any less harsh on WOA, they know better.
As for Apple, they should never have talked about windows during the intro to the M1, it was far too soon to be even mentioned.
A full x86 emulator is my preference, even given that it will be slower -- it'll be a lot more compatible, and x86 emulators are a well known quantity.
Dealing with OS's (systems actually) is my biggest means of making money, so yeah, I do get mad at them all the time when their makers do something idiotic, and you'd really see me angry if this were a Microsoft board...
The Main issue I would see from apples POV for 'running windows' is support.
driver doesn't work, or XYZ crashes, ect, THEY'RE going to get the call to support it. and it wont be the wonderful Genius Bar experience, when they have to say 'we dont know, contact the app developer, or windows, or ...' so they ship a few more units, I dont think at the price / margin level of the machines apple sells, they want to take on that responsibility, there's just not enough ROI.
can it work, sure. throw it out there, let the crazies run windows, they're just not going to support it like its OS X
driver doesn't work, or XYZ crashes, ect, THEY'RE going to get the call to support it. and it wont be the wonderful Genius Bar experience, when they have to say 'we dont know, contact the app developer, or windows, or ...' so they ship a few more units, I dont think at the price / margin level of the machines apple sells, they want to take on that responsibility, there's just not enough ROI.
can it work, sure. throw it out there, let the crazies run windows, they're just not going to support it like its OS X
Why? I can run Windows fairly well on my M1 machine today. It’s not like a working solution is light years away. And I’m sure MS can use the same hardware features of Apple Silicon that allow it to emulate x86 memory model.
The M1 Macs should not be a problem for you, Apple still sells plenty of Intel Macs and they will support your current Intel Mac for many years.
I don't know how old your current Macs are but if they are a few years old you might want to consider picking up something more recent. The 2020 27" iMac in particular has very recent Intel CPUs and AMD GPUs as does the 16 MBP.
Sounds like you should be following UTM then. It's built using Apple's virtualization framework, and using QEMU to emulate non-AArch64 CPUs.
For the most part, you're right, the intel macs will be around for awhile yet and that's what I'll use. I'm just a bit disappointed in my M1 MBA, it's not being as useful as I had hoped. (yet). I had bought it to be for traveling, but for stuff I want to do quickly, it's not a bad machine. Love how quickly it wakes up from sleep or reboots.
My main Mac is a 2020 Intel Mac Mini that's quite well outfitted. Love having 64G of RAM, no problems running multiple VM's on this puppy. GPU's aren't really necessary for what I do, I don't game or do 3D on PC's and Intel and M1's built in stuff is more than enough. i7 CPU's are really enough for what I need too..
Already following it, can't get networking to work yet. Other than the networking, it runs Windows (x86/64) quite well. Slow, yes, but if I figure out networking with it, it'll be useful. Almost everything I do requires communicating with other machines.
I should have mentioned it, but UTM doesn't seem to want to boot a VM after the last MacOS update. (11.2.3)
Never mind about that, got it booting just now. We'll see on the networking, I may have a clue on that...
I had no expectations of the M1 Macs running Windows which is one reason I bought a 2020 iMac. I did install Windows on a Bootcamp partition but I more frequently run Docker or x86 Linux VMs.
I also use the iMac to Citrix into my day job so I wasn't willing to risk any incompatibility issues. I will probably buy an ARM MacBook in a few years though.