Windows XP Booting on Mac Contest Over

[Steve1496]

It sounds to me like you only need a PC running XP in order to doctor up the XP SP2 install CD. The same way you needed a Mac running OSX to doctor up the OS X install CD to run OS X on generic PCs. Once those images are made, once could theoretically get the ISO/DMG image from a hypothetical file sharing service and simply install. Theoretically.

Yes you could definitely make an ISO of the CD. It comes out to a little over 550MB, so it's not very large either.

EDIT: fixed a typo

 

[Digitalclips]

Cake and eat it?

Congratulations to the winners! I never had any doubts

I look forward to both dual OS boot (or multi-OS boot for that matter!) but also side by side XP in a Mac OS window for work in XP (Vista) and OS X with copy and paste between (a VPC app that works native speed).

I fully appreciate games and power-user PC apps etc. will be best in a single boot mode and this is great news for those situations but for office work, both at the same time would be great too - cake and eat it .

My wife is a Realtor and we have to suffer owning three PCs (home, her office and a laptop) just because Sarasota's board of Realtors insists on making their multiple listing service (MLS) work on IE 6 only (should be against the Law!). As soon as we have a side by side situation (VPC is too slow we have tried this) where XP will only be used for IE 6 and all else in OS X we can donate three PCs to the Gate's Foundation

Keep up the good work!

 

[janstett]

I'm not sure this would work. Since xom.efi detects partitions that are MS-DOS on the main (internal) drive, it seems unlikely. But it doesn't sound like that would be hard to implement. Then you also have the issue of XP killing USB devices during install.

I was just chatting with Blanka (very nice person by the way), and he has sent me a modified xom.efi to debug and get this going on 20" iMacs. I'll fool around with it today and let you know if I get any more progress!

Thanks for the feedback, Steve. If they're still looking for testers, I have a MacBook Pro I'd be willing to test with. I'm willing to partition up the internal drive but I'd like to leave it alone (if possible) and give XP a nice big sandbox on an external drive. Firewire is also an option.

 

[mark88]

Ok, you guys are generalizing about the people that use Mac OSX. Most of the people that do speak of its superiority have and still DO use windows. So, Macros and Mark88, I have to say on this topic, you guys probably have a similar approval rating to Bush and Cheney.

I laugh everytime someone says 'I don't want no BSOD on my mac'. I have 4 machines running XP 24/7 for work and not once since using XP have I ever had a blue screen of anything. I've had malware and crashes a couple times but never BSOD.

I look at comments like these from certain mac users about windows and can only assume they have not used XP, they're just going off what they heard and stereotypes. Just because you use both, doesn't mean all the other Windows bashers have.

It's not hard to see why windows has such a bad rap when it comes to crashes and wot not, 90% of computers users use Windows, 5% use OS X. It's hardly surprising that you hear more about the problems with Windows than you do with OS X...

 

[Steve1496]

Thanks for the feedback, Steve. If they're still looking for testers, I have a MacBook Pro I'd be willing to test with. I'm willing to partition up the internal drive but I'd like to leave it alone (if possible) and give XP a nice big sandbox on an external drive. Firewire is also an option.

Actually the files and instructions should be posted in a few hours.

 

[Veldek]

Yes you could definity make an ISO of the CD. It comes out to a little over 550MB, so it's not very large either.

But wouldn't this render this thing illegal?

You must either have a PC to do it the right way, which is no option for everyone who wants to leave the PC away. Or you need this ISO file which you have to download via P2P. Or would it be allowed to download an "altered version of XP" if you own the original?

 

[p0intblank]

This is great news! Congrats to the winners... it obviously wasn't easy.

Next project: the ability to run Windows programs within OS X

Now that would be even greater!

 

[peharri]

could be a problem for the Mac OS. Who would develop for OSX if users can just use Windows on the same machine?


I understand that only a small minority of computer users will actually do this but it's still a concern for Apple.

I'm not really sure why this would happen. Unless:

1. The majority of Mac users decide to install Windows

and

2. Most of them spend most of their time in the Windows environment

then Windows software will never be attractive to the majority of Mac users.

The real benefit this hack has is that it will provide an environment for the few types of apps where "must use" users are a minority, or where the market is so small and the costs of porting so high, that a Mac version would never be on the cards anyway.

The real issues will come not with this, but with systems like Darwine, where, as they gain compatability, they'll provide compatability without requiring users to buy Windows, and without users feeling like they have to leave the Mac environment to run those Windows applications. Arguably, this is more of a problem than Windows XP being able to run.

Now, before there's mass panic (ahem, but reading some of the comments along the lines of "OMG OMG! It can't be true! It's unpossible that Macs can run Windows, The Steve would never allow it, and the world will come to an end" when the initial screenshots were released, you can see my justification) about the above, the real test will be if there's a signficant market for Mac OS X apps. If we see a market share of 20-30% in the near future, then most Windows developers will want to develop an OS X Native version of their applications (possibly even using Darwine to help) because if they don't, they're likely to lose 20% of their sales to the first OS X developer that comes up with a genuinely OS X friendly version. On the other hand, if Apple doesn't get out of the 3-10% bracket, then, well, you'll be lucky if they even test their apps against Darwine.

That could go either way. The fact is potential switchers now have the security of knowing that if the alien but desirable Mac OS X turns out not to work out for them, they'll be able to switch back to Windows XP for whatever the cost of XP is these days. And that should mean more switchers.

On the other hand, Apple's watchword was quality at a little higher price than the other manufacturers, and I seriously do not think they realise what a problem the IIG issue is. Saying "It's ok, because most Dells in that price range have the same thing" is a non-starter: many Dells in that price range have proper accelleration, and more to the point, "Same as a Dell, different Operating System" is not a competitive edge.

Regardless, this - dual booting - is a good thing for Apple as it provides real security for switchers. The wildcard is Darwine coupled with Apple's market share, not Genuine Windows.

 

[Steve1496]

But wouldn't this render this thing illegal?

You must either have a PC to do it the right way, which is no option for everyone who wants to leave the PC away. Or you need this ISO file which you have to download via P2P. Or would it be allowed to download an "altered version of XP" when you own the original?

I think its just adding some files and hacking NTLDR so it reads those files (in $OEM$), so I don't think thats illegal. Then again, in order for it to be legal (because the ISO would contain files from the Windows CD), you'd need to get some method of ensuring people have a valid copy of XP. This is why you need a PC, they don't want to distributed pirated copies of Windows.

 

[deadturtle]

Things Lurking

Glad to see its been done. Now I just have to find a 'tel Mac to test this on. I was reading engadget, and the comments there were far less civil than macrumors. It was amazing to say all the nay sayers screaming fake. I wonder what rock they will crawl under today? I understand that being skeptical, and sharing a point of view is essential to the health of any forum, but people were almost violent last night. Hopefully this will serve as a message, when the next big thing comes along, to just chill, have a little patience and see what comes down the pipe before screaming fake! fake! and then proceeding to blast anyone and anything that disagrees with your narrow point of view.

 

[macros]

... Last time I checked I can burn a dvd, have ten sites open, 10 widgets, ichat, imail, itunes playing music, and whatever else going on with no problems ever (osx does deal very well in my eyes with these tasks). On a windows machine I feel like after opening two things, I can't even get a third thing open without clicking it a few times b/c windows has ADD. Also it runs very sluggish when switching between apps, etc. I get frustrated trying to do these things on a windows machine....

I know what you are saying, that was also one of the reasons I have switched.
For normal use i think OS X is great, but for syuf like realtime video playback, or music performance, there is just no way to tell OS X to concentrate on one app and make other apps sluggish.
In windows I can just select higherst priority and the interface will go sluggish, but the software will play no matter what.
You know in your signature I can see you use a mac connected to a TV. Are you happy with video playback while having other apps open?
Having sayd that, I am in minority so and I still would choose mac for day to day things.. (Sorry for being off topic again )

 

[DPazdanISU]

But wouldn't this render this thing illegal?

You must either have a PC to do it the right way, which is no option for everyone who wants to leave the PC away. Or you need this ISO file which you have to download via P2P. Or would it be allowed to download an "altered version of XP" if you own the original?

I don't think it's illegal to create an ISO for personal use from your pc to your mac. You purchased the software so you can essentially do this. If you post that ISO all over a P2P then it's illegal. At least that's how I see it.

 

[Steve1496]

I don't think it's illegal to create an ISO for personal use from your pc to your mac. You purchased the software so you can essentially do this. If you post that ISO all over a P2P then it's illegal. At least that's how I see it.

But he's talking about them offering an ISO download. This is illegal, yes.

I don't see the big deal about making a CD on your PC. If you don't have a PC, then you can use a friends or go to an Internet Cafe.

 

[Photorun]

Are you crazy? The Mac 128K would get universally negative reviews.

"Mouse? WTF is a mouse, and where does Apple get these retarded names?"

"********. It doesn't even have a hard drive. My Lisa can fit ten Twiggy disks on the hard drive. And it doesn't have any expansion capabilities. Millions of options are available for my Lisa. Show me something impressive, Steve. At this rate, I won't be upgrading for years."

"Apple is switching to square pixels? Worst... mistake... ever."

"Look at that bloated worthless excuse for an OS. Think of how much power you'd have running just Microsoft BASIC or something light like that."

"It's only 6MHz faster than my Apple III. Lousy speed bump."

"It's... not... backward-compatible. It can't run Apple II or III or Lisa programs? And wtf is that little slot on the front of the machine. I know that ain't for floppies. Not my floppies. Great, Steve. I spent $360,512 on software that just became absolutely worthless. **** it, I'm switching to Osborne."

"OMG LOL integrated monitor? 9 inches? I wonder if I could hack in a 10 if I got a curling iron and a heavy-duty stapler."

"Lame. That GUI makes it look like a little girl's toy. If I used something with a GUI, I'd have deep questions about my heterosexuality."

"Yeah, but will it run XENIX?"

"You're an idiot fanboy if you think this was a positive step. Steve's RDF is clearly going to his head. They'll let that idiot do anything now."

"Sorry. Sony already patented Burrell Smith."

This should really be a thread of its own.

This was the best post EVER!!!

 

[millar876]

video drivers

Gamers Beware! This is a HUGE factor for all those wanting to game with this breakthrough. It has been reported that XP is running on the Macs without any hardware acceleration.

maybe Im just being a bit dence, BUT couldnt you just go download the official ATI Catalyst, or nVidia Forceware graphics drivers for xp from the ATI/nVidia site to get some graphics drivers. OR even 3rd party ones like Detenator drivers or Omega-drivers, heck the WINfox driver cd that came with my Winfox 6800GT (256MB GDDR3 @ 1GHz) is still in a sealed envelope, shrinkwrapped to the instruction book.

in summary - WHY wouldnt there be video drivers?

 

[Veldek]

But he's talking about them offering an ISO download. This is illegal, yes.

I don't see the big deal about making a CD on your PC. If you don't have a PC, then you can use a friends or go to an Internet Cafe.

Sorry, but there's no difference between getting these files from a P2P network or getting them from an internet café nor from a friend. It would be illegal either way as long as it's not your OWN disc.

 

[g.x]

For those who need/want dual-boot (like me), this is great.

For those who slam this and would prefer virtualization, chill out. It's coming.

But for all those people who are waiting/drooling over "Virtual PC at native speeds," please pull your head out so it can get some air. Plenty of friendly people on this site (obviously not me) have kindly tried to educate you and you are simply ignoring them.

"Virtual" = running withing a software environment, which is essentially a software application.

Therefore "Virtual at native speeds" translates to "Please provide me with software that uses absolutely no system resources, no cpu, no RAM, nothing...please provide this as it is my God-given right as someone who does not understand physics or reality."

 

[AndyR]

Since it's won now, I guess I can talk. The install requires a Windows XP PC, with which Windows is already installed.

Thats interesting because if your using a copy of XP that is already installed and being used, in order to stay within the licensing agreements once you have in on your Mac you'll have to wipe it of the PC, else you'd have two copies of XP running from the same key.

Whether this would bother you or not I dont know as most of the people I know who run XP have never bought it anyway

Anyway, well done to the chaps for getting this done! Amazes me how quick its happened. Just want MS to come out with an Intel version of VPC and I'll order myself an iMac

 

[Veldek]

Thats interesting because if your using a copy of XP that is already installed and being used, in order to stay within the licensing agreements once you have in on your Mac your have to wipe it of the PC, else you'd have two copies of XP running from the same key.

Whether this would bother you or not I dont know as most of the peopel I know who run XP have never bought it anyway

This is another point one has to consider... Seems to me, although there IS a solution, there might be some serious problems with it.

 

[50548]

Nevertheless, this blind faith and ignorance is not something to be proud of. So so many people here think OS X is just without flaw and that XP is so bad they can't understand why anyone uses it. Everyone is an OS X user simply waiting to break free of the Windows world....

Half these people haven't even used XP.

Sorry, but you have no clue whatsoever on why people are worried about this. It's not "blind faith" or "ignorance", it's about manifesting concern in terms of the future environment for software development on Macs.

If you are company "considering" the development of a OS X-native program, you will think TWICE, if not THRICE, to make such a bold move. Again, I just hope that Apple does NOT support that crappy dual-boot thing officially...otherwise any prospective company won't even bother about Universal binaries or XCode...mark my words.

 

[Veldek]

If you are company "considering" the development of a OS X-native program, you will think TWICE, if not THRICE, to make such a bold move. Again, I just hope that Apple does NOT support that crappy dual-boot thing officially...otherwise any prospective company won't even bother about Universal binaries or XCode...mark my words.

I think that's why they won't support it in fact.

BTW, is "thrice" an actual word?

 

[50548]

Since it's won now, I guess I can talk. The install requires a Windows XP PC, with which Windows is already installed. From here you use Nero Burning ROM to mix files from your XP SP2 CD, copy them to a new project, and add in some $OEM$ files and folders, and fix some of the files in i386. From here, you use xom.efi (which is the bootloader), and bless it in Terminal. Once it's blessed on startup you get a pretty nice selector, and you choose Windows. From here the CSM layer pauses for 2.5 Minutes while it does whatever its doing. Then you'll get into Windows Setup.

I should also mention at this time, you cannot reboot Windows. You need to shutdown. If you attempt rebooting it will hang at Windows is Shutting Down screen.

Ah, I feel better now...it's great to know it's complex as hell...thanks for the effort but I will stick to my pure OS X...APPLE FOREVER..!

 

[Counter]

I like the choice made of which arrow to press to select XP.

The DOWN arrow.

Although I think it could be improved. Pressing down once should get you OS9. Pressing down again should get you a question mark and the wording "are you sure you want to go this low". Pressing down another 5 times would result in similar messages.

Pressing down a 6th time would get you XP.

Pressing return then would result in a blue screen.

A pause would occur here.

6 or 7 seconds pass, it seems like a lifetime....

Then, at full blast, in Vicki (35 year old female, North American English MacinTalk) voice your speakers scream "**** YOU I'M BOOTING OSX".

And OSX boots.

 

[50548]

I think that's why they won't support it in fact.

BTW, is "thrice" an actual word?

hehe, I know someone would ask that...from the dictionary:

thrice |?r?s| adverb chiefly formal poetic/literary three times : a dose of 25 mg thrice daily.

 

[mark88]

Sorry, but you have no clue whatsoever on why people are worried about this. It's not "blind faith" or "ignorance", it's about manifesting concern in terms of the future environment for software development on Macs.

If you are company "considering" the development of a OS X-native program, you will think TWICE, if not THRICE, to make such a bold move. Again, I just hope that Apple does NOT support that crappy dual-boot thing officially...otherwise any prospective company won't even bother about Universal binaries or XCode...mark my words.

What a silly POV. If your argument is true, why do people even bother developing for the mac platform in the first place?

After a few months of dual booting, VPC8, VMWARE or whatever else. I'll be happy to pick this thread back up and say "hey look, people are still developing software for OS X".....

I actually think mac developers will be insulted that you think they are so spineless.