Both? You mean one for each eye like stereo?
Nah, I think I'll wait for the release of the quadraphonic version....😜
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Won’t this replace vision pro for a lot of you?
- Thread starter CrysisDeu
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Nah, I think I'll wait for the release of the quadraphonic version....😜
My personal specific definition of "computer" as I stated, is one that can independently write/build software for itself. I don't consider an iPad a "computer" because it cannot be used to independently write/build iPad software.
I defined the scope of my argument, and offered a rationale as to why other people sharing that scope would give rise to the idea that "an iPad is not a computer" which was the question.
I'm not going to engage in your may-as-well-be-trolling / pedantry over definitions - the thing I was being pedantic about was a blatant misrepresentation of the pricing structure of a company's product, and features, despite that pricing and those features being clearly stated on a public website, and the use of that misrepresentation as a strawman to argue against the product.
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The discussion, if you read post one, is the Visor as an alternative the AVP as a virtual screen device, which is where it should have stayed.
Actually, you don’t necessarily need both. Immersed got into this game by making software that you run on your computer that can create virtual monitors for the quest 3. Runs reasonably well, people like it, but the quest 3 doesn’t really have the resolution to do justice to the concept. So Immersed decided to build a higher resolution, lighter, mousetrap. That’s the Visor. On paper. It's not released yet.
The AVP has been released and has the resolution. And two days ago Immersed released beta software for the AVP that lets you have up to five virtual screens. For beta testers they even wave the immersion pro software fee for 90 days.
As for what that experience is like? I will just say for now it’s ’interesting.’
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Fair enough. Even a discussion on the actual utility of the Visor is hampered by lack of a real product or detailed information on a lot of its physical aspects. I will say this, addressing the title of this thread, after using their beta software for the AVP to allow it to run five Mac virtual screens, I and other AVP users are not sold on the paradigm. Will it be enough for those wanting to spend less money for a subset of AVP features? Maybe. We can only judge once the product is released. Will AVP users like the immersed app? Another maybe. It has a high wow factor. But the technical implementation has some caveats that clouds its actual utility. I think that's what some people are worried about the actual visor. On paper sounds interesting, but the devil is going to be in the details.
Bottom line is, should Apple be concerned about it? Nope. Turns out some of those other AVP features are useful. The Visor isn’t going to replace the AVP. IMHO.
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To be clear, the reason I asked the question in the first place is because *you* are the one that threw out a definition of a computer that I’ve only ever seen on this website. You didn’t claim it was a “personal” definition.
The AVP is absolutely a computer, and as I’ve shown earlier in the thread, it’s probably one of the most advanced Accessibility computing devices ever achieved.
That’s why I was so confused as to why this totally devoid of history definition of what a computer is seems to exist purely here in MR. But you did answer it for me, in that you now consider that your personal definition.
I was curious, and we did get some good responses from computing history, but I didn’t mean for this to set off some contentious back and forth.
$40/month subscription ?
They have Lifetime subscription but still list a subscription at the bottom, which makes it confusing.
Are these OLED displays? Is it see through or does it have a camera to capture what's in front?
Good luck to anyone giving these people any money before it actually ships.
you do NOT want to open that can of worms here. trust me LOL. I do agree their web site is very confusing and seemingly not well put together.
OLED yes, someone said a later version of whats in the AVP but I can't verify. Not see through, web site claims to have pass through, which I think is probable, but we have no clue on the quality of it, no one really knows, product has not shipped. I imagine it will NOT have foveated rendering as the AVP does, or at least not as aggressive because a) cost, and b) causes some interesting artifacts with detailed virtual screens on the side.
I don't regret getting the AVP. There are lots of wannabe products out there, but I doubt these could really do better at a much lower cost.
I can't find the post saying otherwise, but I will say "what's a computer" is relevant to the thread as it speaks to the nature of what makes AVP the AVP versus just a head mounted display. It came up as an argument against the idea that AVP has more value because "you get an entire computer".
$40 a month if you commit to two years. $60 a month if you commit to one full year. No month by month option I can see. Is "Lifetime" what they call "Prepaid"?
here you go...
the counter argument that goes beyond semantics is the Visor is not trying to recreate all the features of the AVP, just a subset (mirroring and virtual screens from a tethered computer).. for those that want just the subset, a lower price is welcome. Why pay for what you are not using is the argument.
I don't regret getting mine either, there are benefits to it being a stand alone device (computer or otherwise) capable of running the apps that I need. Besides the obvious benefits to portability, and while I do find the multiple screen thing to be fun (testing it on the Immersed AVP beta), the reality is the screens are essentially bezels around the apps we are working with. Worse they are confining. It's funny to me that people give so much about the bezels on their devices, but then import them into a AR environment. It's easier and clearer to me to use the MS word App on my APV than using Word on my laptop and then tying my laptop to the APV with virtual screens.
Not putting down the multi screen paradigm, but its roots are in what we do today in the real world as it were. Separate windows for separate apps are rethinking the old. In some ways it's like when the trackpad first came out, a lot of people preferred to stick with their old mice for input. I know I do. But a lot of people have made the transition to the trackpad. Like I always say, choice is great.
If you read the FAQs, it mentions that once your subscription expires you will lose some features.
Unless you buy the higher priced foundation model that comes with a "Lifetime subscription to Immersed Pro" which I think is all the advertised features. Admittedly it's all confusing and we can hope when it gets closer to release they will work on their website. Right now Immersed wont even confirm a release date, citing they were still working out things with their tech partners. Which if lawyers are involved...
As an aside, Immersed claims they are going to have an IPO in several weeks, I imagine they are fine tuning their subscription model and keen to get more pre-orders to pump up the IPO price. At some point things should become real clear. you do not want to mess with the SEC.
Yeah-- I meant the post saying that discussing what a computer is is off topic. I think (hope) the topic has run its course, but I think it was relevant.
I noticed that a lot of the video shows no cable, some pictures show the cable on the right and some on the left. I don't see anything showing where the cable connects. I'm not sure they have actual hardware at this point. The window for a mid 24 release opens in about 6 weeks.
They're probably planning to use that IPO money to ramp up production, so that optimistically stretches mid year into August or so assuming they've already been able to run production pilots and sort out quality. Do they have enough of a running business to base an IPO on? All I can see is that one app. I wonder if they've run out of investment funds and the IPO is a last ditch effort to carry on.
More confusing details-- Immersed Pro is licensed at $5/mo for other platforms. So where are the $60/mo prices coming from for the Visor? It's clearly a hardware subsidy, but that's a huge recurring subsidy.
From what I read on their discord channel, Immersed doesn't have a fully pre-manufacturing prototype yet. No one has reported seeing one. Immersed's CEO Kenji is fairly cagey about addressing that directly however, citing privacy issues with their tech partners (Qualcomm). That's plausible but doesn't suggest release is imminent. They get a fair number of questions asking when they might say more, and we are told 'soon.' Have to admit it's fairly wild to see the company's founders hanging out answering random questions.
The IPO deal has been up and down since August, so even though they say thats happening in a few weeks, again who knows? You make a good point on what will they use that money for and how that doesn't speak well for a release date.
And yep, their current business is built on recurring subscription fees, but we are to believe that won't happen here according to some.
I think you are right. A mid 2024 release date is very unlikely. Especially since on their web site it says the Foundation folks get theirs 6 months before anyone else.
I just want to point out that an "entire computer" sometimes enables fairly basic functions. For instance, if you want a headset to just watch a movie. AVP being a full computer means you only need the AVP to watch your movie. A device that is only a head mounted display would need a laptop/tablet to play the movie from.
This is my thought exactly. As long as the AVP version of Word has all the functions I want/need, there's no need for a virtual Mac screen. It's great that function is there for times when there is no native VP or iPad app that does what a Mac app does, but ideally, we would use native/iPad apps.
Doesn't leave you with the feeling they're in the midst of a high pressure launch...
Hard to go the IPO route without product and revenue. It sounds like they are somewhere between seed level at worst and may be pull off an SPAC at best.
_peeks in_
People get really triggered by this.
_clicks “Unwatch”
👋
People get really triggered by this.
_clicks “Unwatch”
👋
AVP is a prototype intended to get developers onboard. Apple's goal is to release sleek, lightweight AR glasses as soon as the technology is available, but they can't wait until then to get developers building apps for their AR platform. This way, once they release a lightweight "Apple Glass" product, there will already be a mature suite of apps ready to entice consumers to buy it.
Apple markets AVP as a polished, finished product representative of "the future" because nobody wants to feel like they were suckered into beta testing a prototype that was going to disappear soon as technology allowed for lighter headsets/glasses. That's not to say AVP isn't a great device in itself - it's just a criticism of Apple's dishonest marketing.
The Visor is very different - it's not there to attract developers. It's there to promote Immersed's software and services.
The Visor community is funny because they have an entirely different vision for the product than Immersed does. The community hypes it as the ultimate lightweight, portable do-it-all VR headset, while Immersed strongly insists that the device is narrowly focused on being portable monitor glasses for their Immersed platform (for work and collaboration).
It could be that Visor will be great for gaming, or (more likely) it could turn out that there was a reason why Immersed doesn't mention gaming at all in their marketing material. I don't buy the community's excuse that "they're just a small company so focused on work that they don't think to mention how great these will be for gaming!"
Apple markets AVP as a polished, finished product representative of "the future" because nobody wants to feel like they were suckered into beta testing a prototype that was going to disappear soon as technology allowed for lighter headsets/glasses. That's not to say AVP isn't a great device in itself - it's just a criticism of Apple's dishonest marketing.
The Visor is very different - it's not there to attract developers. It's there to promote Immersed's software and services.
The Visor community is funny because they have an entirely different vision for the product than Immersed does. The community hypes it as the ultimate lightweight, portable do-it-all VR headset, while Immersed strongly insists that the device is narrowly focused on being portable monitor glasses for their Immersed platform (for work and collaboration).
It could be that Visor will be great for gaming, or (more likely) it could turn out that there was a reason why Immersed doesn't mention gaming at all in their marketing material. I don't buy the community's excuse that "they're just a small company so focused on work that they don't think to mention how great these will be for gaming!"
The visor community is indeed a very enthusiastic group, fueled on by folks from immersion bouncing in from time to time with the real soon now message. I applaud Immersed's dedication to trimming down to the bare necessity, but after trying their software for the AVP, the short cuts they were willing to take did not give me confidence in the Visor. But only time will really tell. I think its good for the community that all these different approaches are being taken.