Ok, I guess I am dumb and not smart enough to use the device like others in the thread who are confused. Good luck to Visor for selling their devices to smart people who can understand their pricing, services, and all that... I am out of here, hoping one day, either AVP 2.0 or some device will meet my needs. Clearly visor marketing folks are too smart.It is easy to understand. That you don't understand it reflects on you, not the website.
These are the membership services which subsidise the price of the headset. You are required to subscribe to these services for a minimum of 12 months, as a condition of purchase, just like buying a carrier-subsidised cellphone from a cellphone network.
Probably send you to debt collection, because the contract is clearly stated as 12, or 24 months months.
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Won’t this replace vision pro for a lot of you?
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Sighs. no its not. not at all. or at least, the phone carriers dont try to turn it into some super secret ninja marketing ploy. Here's the phone with all the features it comes with from the factory. Here's the ways you can buy it. All up front. or on contract. They dont try to mix the two by calling it a membership or a subscription. They don't say you get this or that with the membership. Here's the phone. here's the cost. Now the carrier does offer different additional services you can subscribe to, but again, it's very clear. Not like whats going on over at immersive.
I know I know. I can't read. I have cognitive issues. I am just brain dead to think the two are different. it's exactly the same. Ride off into the sunset cowboy.
It's not my fault if you can't / won't read, or take 5 minutes to email a company and ask them to clarify something you don't understand.
No no, dont go friend. We got smart people here to explain it all to us! we just have to have faith! got to believe!
My first thoughts when directed to the web site from here was that it was a late April Fool's joke. The web site really is just that much bad marketing, that little of substance, and designed to make us think we were getting some great value. why not let the device speak for itself? Or maybe a real review? It is silly to be rolling in the mud over vaporware price models when there is a good chance the thing will never be released anyway. Looking forward to the day when this thing can properly be evaluated.
OMG you have to be kidding! That's hilarious. Sad. Hard no for me. What a stupendously stupid idea.
There are LOT's of other solutions out there. Why make such a big deal about this one that doesn't exist yet?
I LOL'd at this one. I've done the same thing, wondering what was wrong with my VP. "Why isn't it moving, where is the bar or circle?" LOL
No kidding. When someone calls a subscription a membership, they are trying to hide something. Just charge the price up front. If you need the money, do a pay 1/2 now, 1/2 later. Or - be honest and only pay when shipped.
Thank you. I thought it was only me. I literally closed all other windows wondering what was wrong with this one. But it's a BIG tv. When people complain about the pass through I just roll my eyes.
I'm curious if Visor is an actual shippable product or if it's more of a wishlist. Nearly every part of their marketing screams scam. It is supposedly shipping mid-2024, so best of luck to Immersed and to everyone onboard without any demos of the actual thing in the wild.
Because most "video goggles" for computers and cellphones etc don't have full 6DOF tracking, hand recognition, and AR passthrough. This has what looks to be the new generation of the same onboard processing that is used in the Vive XR Elite, the Pimax Crystal etc - both of which do AR passthrough, hand tracking and eye tracking; the full featureset of the sensor suite Visor is claiming.
So it's likely a fully independent standalone VR/AR headset, with the ability to become a wired or wireless tethered VR/AR headset, but the feature they're concentrating on for launch, is a better version of virtual screens for desktop computers and other devices than current options.
That seems an interesting development in the market, given the XR Elite is a really great product paradigm, suffering from older tech, lower resolution optics.
Also, they're actually marketing to Mac users, unlike most of the AR/VR world.
As for the "big deal" half this thread seems to be a result of people not reading the product pages, jumping to erroneous conclusions, and being unwilling to concede they were incorrect when that is pointed out to them.
As I've said ad nauseum, the Visor purchase appears to require you to also subscribe to a Visor service (Visor Plus) for 1-2 years, which subsidises the cost of the hardware, just like buying a "free" or discounted cellphone from a cell network shop, that comes with a bundled phone plan, which subsidises the cost of the handset (the subscription subsidising the cost of the hardware is the sole purpose of this metaphor). When the Visor Plus contract expires, all the functionality that is inherent to the hardware, which is clearly stated in the FAQ, continues to work.
Now, some people claim to be confused by a perk in the Founders version, which is a lifetime subscription to Immersed Pro, a separate, but distinct subscription service, which allows the features of Visor, and the Visor Plus subscription, to work on headsets which other companies make. So if you already own a Quest, the Founder's Edition would theoretically provide a lifetime subscription to Immersed Pro which could be used on your Quest, which seems like a reasonable deal if you want to be able to swap between headsets, while staying in the same virtual screen / VR work environment.
But, Immersed Pro is not in any way, shape, or form necessary for the Visor to work. Neither is Visor Plus.
Now, I didn't have any trouble working that out, just from reading the product pages. But because of the obsession with which some people here were holding on to professed beliefs about needing two subscriptions to make it work, or needing a separate subscription on the device from the one that runs on the computer, I sent a quick email to the company, and received a reply in less time than I've ever been on hold to Apple when phoning.
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I don't think it will, that one is just a screen, the Vision Pro can be a lot more, in my opinion the key for the Vision Pro to become successful are the apps, for example, they just released a new app called AmazeVR Concerts and it's mind blowing, I think if developer start working on apps using the full potential of Vision Pro, it will be make a huge difference, the only issue right now is that Vision Pro is not really popular so a lot of developers will probably wait to start working on apps specifically design for the Vision Pro.
Think the real point is the product page sucks and should be clear, not obtuse. They have plenty of time to work on it, yet conflicting information abounds.
And this device isn't stand alone. Not by a long shot. The ONLY stand alone piece I've read so far is a browser. Don't know what browser. A browser has limitations. Many pages call out files to be used in other applications. Which....oops.....you can't run on this device. Not now anyway. Oops - my mistake, you can't do anything now since it's not available......what I meant was not when it eventually, if ever, launches. Which takes me back to my original comments in this thread wondering why some people are overly passionate for a device that isn't available.
I should create a quick web page for a new spacial computer coming out mid 2025. For $100 up front and $100/month membership fee thereafter, you can use it. It's contacts powered by your tears so no battery. You can place apps all over the place. It can tether to any compute device you have at your disposal. It's better than 4K per eye as it's real life. With a special cable for each eye, you can use the power of your nVidea VD9301 to display shockingly good graphics. Just don't stray too far or the contacts get ripped out and you can lose your cornea. You can run one app at a time in real space. Can mirror 20 screens and any other app you want. But you can only see the 20 screens until you shut them all down. Then you can use your other apps. If you wan to use them at the same time, you can! But only if you get updates and pay $50 a month. We include a warranty for life if you pay $25 a month. These also have their own independent processors to run apps natively, no tethering required. We'll have an API available and no apps or app store available at launch. Apps may come down the road if anyone wants to make them. We hear YouTube may do something. You won't feel cut off from people around you as they won't know you have contacts in your eyes. They have incredible passthrough capabilities with 10, 50 MP cameras. And if you pay us $1,000 up front, your membership fee reduces to $120/mo.
Wonder what kind of fanfare that would create on the forum pages? I'm guessing similar to this one. I'll be happy to clear things up over email, though. LOL. (No offense intended, this is just the story in my head as I read through this thread).
The software part is one thing. But the "membership" is BS and a ploy. Your comparison to how cellular companies subsidized phones is an incorrect comparison. You get NOTHING for the "membership". Well......you get a warranty as long as you pay for it. You get updates as long as you pay for it. Etc. With a cell company, you get a phone number, phone service, data service, etc. This "membership" fee is not normal for consumer devices and bizarre to say the least. Just call it what it is - you pay this up front, then make monthly payments. They used the term "membership" as people want to be members of something and it sounds better.
You know, you can buy a VP for $291 (plus tax, etc). It's true. Then you only have to pay a $291 membership fee for 12 months to become a lifetime member. Updates will be available for as long as the hardware is viable for our OS developments. Unlike many other manufacturers, that could be for 6-8 years! Maybe that's how Apple should have marketed it?
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This:
...is what you get for the membership, which I have posted in this thread multiple times.
Now you can say you don't think they're "worth" that much, but to claim there is "NOTHING" received for the membership subcription is flat out wrong, and frankly disingenuous.
You can recant that claim, now. Thankyou.
I'm not going to address anything else you say otherwise.
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I agree with @OriginalAppleGuy that what you get with this membership isn't comparable to cell phone service. I also disagree that saying you get nothing for the subscription fee is "flat out wrong." Considering that, yes, we can all see what is offered with the membership, someone posting that "you get nothing" after seeing that list is likely just offering an opinion that what you get is worth nothing.
As I made very clear, the cell phone service metaphor is to illustrate the fact that you're paying for a bundled service to amortise the cost of the hardware over a longer timescale. Can you get a $1 cellphone from a carrier if you don't subscribe to the cell service? No, no you can't. Can you get the discounted headset if you don't sign up to the social networking & collaboration software services? No, no you can't.
Same principle.
They show the full price of the hardware without the subscription, there's no attempt to hide it.
That user is making a specific claim that has been repeatedly shown to be false, based on primary source material published by the company. They're not advancing an argument of opinion as to "value" of the service, they're making a statement as to what the content of the service actually is. They're continuing to make it, as if the falsification of their statemet, via the presentation of said evidence had not been demonstrated.
It's a disingenuous argument, and textbook trolling.
Good lord. Get over this back and forth. If you need to send a company an email to clarify a product page that’s a failure, period.
Regarding the device itself, as other have stated it seems to be the next gen of the current offerings. That’s great, because the low resolution of current offerings is what has made me not even consider trying one out. Somewhere down the road when this product is actually released and we can see how well it functions I *may* consider it for my home office, but I suspect other contenders are going to be getting hardware updates around the same time as well.
Regarding the device itself, as other have stated it seems to be the next gen of the current offerings. That’s great, because the low resolution of current offerings is what has made me not even consider trying one out. Somewhere down the road when this product is actually released and we can see how well it functions I *may* consider it for my home office, but I suspect other contenders are going to be getting hardware updates around the same time as well.
I didn't need to send it. I sent it because no matter how clearly I explained the plainly written, and easy to understand pricing structure, the response was, if not deliberate Sealioning, possessed of all the characteristics so as to make no difference.
Since "proof" was said to be valued highly, I supplied it, from the horse's mouth.
Their current offering being software that runs on other companies' headsets, where the free version has lower resolution than the paid version?
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I meant other product offerings like the XAir or the other ones already mentioned in the thread. Those are interesting but too low resolution.
IF this one comes to fruition and works well I’d consider trying it out for my home office. If it doesn’t ever materialize, competitors are going to have access to this new gen of screens and components so something will fill this space eventually for a monitor replacement solution.
Ahh right, sorry, I misread "the" as "their". Yeah and typically screen substitute-only headsets have tended in the past to be fixed positioning of the virtual screens in the glasses, so no matter where you point your head, the screen stays in the middle of your view - it tracks with your head. The Visor would seem to key the virtual screen positioning to the environment, so you turn your head and the screens maintain their apparent position in the world. I would assume there's an anchor / deanchor UX, perhaps akin to the travel mode of the AVP.
I would be unsurprised if the direction they pitched this, if the indications that it's effectively an evolution of the platform used by the Vive XR Elite / Pimax Crystal, is they may go for a sideload-native paradigm, rather than try to have their own appstore.
Diving deeper on the types of monitor support, interesting to see it supports both landscape and portrait monitors (according to Immersed Pro, if that aspect carries across), my Mac Pro in its current configuration supports 12 4k displays, with only 3 in use (and 9 TB ports free if display dummy plugs provide an improvement). I could theoretically drive 5 extra displays just dedicated to the headset, while keeping the physical displays separate. Even with only a single menubar on one of my displays, and a single dock on another, Menuwhere and some sort of 3rd party dock utility could make for a very, very ineresting workflow tool.
Count me among those who have found the product site confusing. I'm sorry, but it just is. And I've read all of your descriptions of why it shouldn't be confusing and it still leaves me confused. For example, I've watched their videos, I've gone on Discord and read their updates, and I'm still left with questions. One annoying thing is in different places the vacillate between saying "for the low price of $xxx" an in other places they say "for a reduced upfront price." They're inconsistent.
But even your description here I found suspect and thus confusing: You say that at the end of the subscription, "all the functionality that is inherent to the hardware" will continue to work. But what does "inherent to the hardware mean?" For example, in some cases you can get 3 monitors and in some cases you can get 5 monitors. That's inherent in the software, not in the hardware. And after the subscription model is up, they will continue to update the software: for example, they may add 6th monitor ability. But then you'd need to start a subscription, again, to get the new updates. And this pushes the cost of this device up even further. So now, you're paying about $1400, but after two years, there are no more free updates. So you sign up again for a subscription to get the updated software. Compared to the AVP where updates will be free for probably 5 years at least.
I'm not just being antagonistic; I and many others on here have found their offering to be less than clear. And it feels like they are waffling or obscuring things. It's clear to me they want their entire model to be subscription-based, just like their apps. And they want subscriptions to underwrite the purchase of the product. But then they want to claim that the device is dramatically less expensive than the AVP, but in the end, we don't know what those ongoing costs will be. But also, comparing the price to the AVP is disingenuous becuase they're really two different devices. With one, you get monitors. With the other, you get an entire computer.
I have nothing against it; if that's what YOU want, great! I'm glad it works for you. But I'll note, again, nobody on this thread has claimed to have made a pre-order for the device.
Here's another way they confuse me. They say there won't be an app store. But they say it can be a standalone device with a "browser."
But then in one of their videos, they make fun of the AVP because Netflix and Youtube don't have native apps, and they imply they WILL have native Netflix and Youtube apps. How? What OS are they running? If they're using a variant of Android, why won't they have an app store? If they're using their own proprietary OS, did Netflix and Youtube write apps for their OS already?
Or, are they saying you can stream Netflix and Youtube on your computer and see it on a monitor within the device. In which case, they can't really make fun of the AVP like they're doing since the AVP can stream Netflix and Youtube in Safari on device.
Now, as for eye-tracking. Why? Really? They say they have it, but what does it do? If you're really just using your computer to drive the device, and therefore using your mouse or trackpad, what is eye tracking needed for? What is hand tracking needed for? These are features they say they have but have shown nothing demonstrating how or why you'd use them.
But then in one of their videos, they make fun of the AVP because Netflix and Youtube don't have native apps, and they imply they WILL have native Netflix and Youtube apps. How? What OS are they running? If they're using a variant of Android, why won't they have an app store? If they're using their own proprietary OS, did Netflix and Youtube write apps for their OS already?
Or, are they saying you can stream Netflix and Youtube on your computer and see it on a monitor within the device. In which case, they can't really make fun of the AVP like they're doing since the AVP can stream Netflix and Youtube in Safari on device.
Now, as for eye-tracking. Why? Really? They say they have it, but what does it do? If you're really just using your computer to drive the device, and therefore using your mouse or trackpad, what is eye tracking needed for? What is hand tracking needed for? These are features they say they have but have shown nothing demonstrating how or why you'd use them.
This is not a product that exists in any meaningful way. It does not exist, so they can promise anything. The spatial computing space is filled with vaporware products, and this hasn't even made it to a working demo state yet. They've fully redesigned the announced product twice so far, and I would not be surprised if they push back ship dates in order to roll out yet another new design.
I'd expect xreal or samsung to ship a product in this space long before a Visor gets into any customer's hands. Immersed is a very small software company that has zero experience in shipping hardware, and these types of headsets are some of the most difficult consumer electronics to manufacture. I truly wish them best of luck in shipping their first hardware product. Maybe they figured out something special that the big companies in this space missed, but I wouldn't count on it.
Wait for reviews, if there is ever anything to review.
I'd expect xreal or samsung to ship a product in this space long before a Visor gets into any customer's hands. Immersed is a very small software company that has zero experience in shipping hardware, and these types of headsets are some of the most difficult consumer electronics to manufacture. I truly wish them best of luck in shipping their first hardware product. Maybe they figured out something special that the big companies in this space missed, but I wouldn't count on it.
Wait for reviews, if there is ever anything to review.
I look at the people who are confused by the marketing. Now I look at their post history and discussions I‘ve had with them. Conclusion: the problem isn’t them.
The website is, simply put, half baked. Probably because they wanted to tease the product and start collecting preorder money before they have everything, including their business model, fully worked out. They took a page from the Elon/Kickstarter playbook. That's fine, but it's evident in their marketing.
You’re filling the gaps in information with optimism. That’s fine, but recognize that fact. Others are taking nothing for granted and remaining skeptical that an unknown software company came from nowhere to crack the spacial computing hardware nut. I’m in the second group— I’ll be curious to hear more, and just as curious whether I will hear more.
The hardware has a price, and there's a reduced upfront price when bundled with a service subscription:
These are both capable of being true at the same time.
As I have posted about a million times, the features included in the hardware are listed in the FAQ question about what happens when the subscription expires, where 5 monitors is explicitly mentioned.
You're going to have to eventually acknowledge that this is an answered question, that the answer is unambiguous, and it's from primary sources. Otherwise, you're just sealioning.
If you think the company is saying 3 screens on their website, provide a screenshot of the part of the Visor website where it says the device provides 3 screens, because I can't find it.
I'm looking at the product pages:
So, where are you getting the confusion from?
I'm going to hazard a guess that you (or someone you have read) have read the Immersed website at some stage, and have conflated the free Immersed software, which has 3 screens, with the Visor offering.
They're saying they're going to increase the featureset over that which was available when you purchased it, and you'll have the option to get those upgrades for a fee, and that's a bad thing? Or, you could buy the founder's edition, and have a lifetime subscription to Immersed Pro, which will probably have those upgrades as well.
If you want to compare to Apple, I'd be more concerned about the way Apple takes features away from products you bought. Imagine if you'd bought a Mac running Big Sur, and then Monterey comes out, which you install, and you lose the ability to proof eBooks in the Books.app, because Apple replaced the dedicated Mac app with an iPad port running on Catalyst.
Buy the Founders model outright and you never pay another cent for subscription, because it includes a lifetime subscription to their Pro software offering. Seems pretty simple to me.
IF you count the AVP as a "computer". I don't, In the same way as I don't count the iPad as a "computer", on the basis that neither of them can close the loop on creating software from scratch for themselves.
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I'm literally quoting the website (and musing on what the hardware has potential to do, not what I expect it to do for the money), on the basis that what's written on the website now as they're taking orders is canon, and would be held against them if they took money, and failed to deliver. Becuse they're not a kickstarter - you're not investing in a company with rewards for backers, they're a startup making explicit promises of product features, with publicly advertised prices.
How many times has Apple had to tear down, and rebuild the fundamental UI paradigm of the Apple Watch (when they weren't stealing fundamental IP from other companies) - they're a known company, and many would argue they still haven't cracked that. Or how many times have they tried to get iPad multitasking "right", still a mess from many people's perspective.
Being established and known doesn't mean your current status is built on the skills of the people who you have working for you now. Look at hand tracking - the best hand tracking in the business is Ultraleap a company most folks have never heard of which started with a dozen people making a kinect-like peripheral for desktop computers, but they're in the best headsets money can buy, that Varjo sells for 20k+.
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No because that would imply AVP meaningfully delivers on the virtual display concept. For me it didn't, not just because of the one display limit (which this device apparently solves), but the FOV, resolution, and foveated rendering weirdness is not compelling enough to have multiple 4k/retina level displays. With AVP no matter where I placed the monitor I couldn't really get a comfortable setup. For a device to deliver on this promise I need it to match the experience of using my MacBook screen or multi monitor desktop setup at home. AVP couldn't and I doubt this thing can. It would honestly be a lot better if it was true AR but we're not going to see that for a long time.