Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[FunkyMagicUK]

I started using your app a few months ago cause I was annoyed by the way the native workout app messes around with the GPS track. Most of the time I run with the watch (Series 3) only and keep my phone at home. GPS accuracy is usually just 4 bars. I think it's as precise as it can get on an Apple Watch

But I still noticed that my stats are off compared to my fellow runners. So I started to play around with the settings. Disabled "Intelligent Distances" and "Pace From Pedometer". The stats seem to be more in line now with other recordings for distance and pace.

What I see now is that the pace/distance listed in the app is higher than what is later reported to Apples Activities app. I don't have many data points yet, but it's like up to 100m for every 10k. This might not sound much, but I would consider myself as a dedicated running and so this is rather important for my training.
My assumption is that the stats shown in your app are still with "Intelligent Distances" on. The stats reported to the Activities app are the ones that are comparable with others.

Looking forward to future updates to your app and I hope GPS accuracy gets better with a Series 5 later this year. Otherwise, I may need to buy a dedicated running watch...

Again, your App is great and I think the flaws are on Apple's site. THANKS!

FWIW, with a Series 4 in the last 7 days I’ve ran a marathon that was measured within 100m accuracy, a half marathon that was within 45metres accuracy, a 10k that was within 125m and a 5k that actually beeped the 5km mark as I crossed the line.

The 10k was in and around MediaCity, so lots of tall buildings and also quite a lot of corners, which probably explains the slight increase in accuracy there...looking at the activity in the phone app I can see accuracy goes worse than 15m quite often when I was running between buildings.

The marathon was at Blackpool, so very open, and also very straight (which both result in good accuracy), I only had to zig zag a bit passing groups of slower runners for the opening 10mins or so, and then it thinned out quite nicely.


I DID run and walk a couple of 30 minute sessions using the standard Workout app a few months ago, no idea if that has helped with calibration etc for the live displayed stats. I do have intelligent distances enabled although I may do some experiments with that on a measured track at some point.

 

[Monkswhiskers]

I started using your app a few months ago cause I was annoyed by the way the native workout app messes around with the GPS track. Most of the time I run with the watch (Series 3) only and keep my phone at home. GPS accuracy is usually just 4 bars. I think it's as precise as it can get on an Apple Watch

But I still noticed that my stats are off compared to my fellow runners. So I started to play around with the settings. Disabled "Intelligent Distances" and "Pace From Pedometer". The stats seem to be more in line now with other recordings for distance and pace.

What I see now is that the pace/distance listed in the app is higher than what is later reported to Apples Activities app. I don't have many data points yet, but it's like up to 100m for every 10k. This might not sound much, but I would consider myself as a dedicated running and so this is rather important for my training.
My assumption is that the stats shown in your app are still with "Intelligent Distances" on. The stats reported to the Activities app are the ones that are comparable with others.

Looking forward to future updates to your app and I hope GPS accuracy gets better with a Series 5 later this year. Otherwise, I may need to buy a dedicated running watch...

Again, your App is great and I think the flaws are on Apple's site. THANKS!

I was tempted to get a Garmin 645 because of the Firstbeat stuff and hopefully better GPS, but the reviews say otherwise.
I tried a Garmin Instinct and the GPS was worse than AW, my friend has a Fenix5 even worse!
My old 310xt accurancy still better than all of them. These new watches are trying to be lots of things at once in a small form factor. Garmin reputation was built on GPS nav and now their pricing making Apple Watch the look cheap option, criminal really.

 

[cfc]

I started using your app a few months ago cause I was annoyed by the way the native workout app messes around with the GPS track. Most of the time I run with the watch (Series 3) only and keep my phone at home. GPS accuracy is usually just 4 bars. I think it's as precise as it can get on an Apple Watch

But I still noticed that my stats are off compared to my fellow runners. So I started to play around with the settings. Disabled "Intelligent Distances" and "Pace From Pedometer". The stats seem to be more in line now with other recordings for distance and pace.

What I see now is that the pace/distance listed in the app is higher than what is later reported to Apples Activities app. I don't have many data points yet, but it's like up to 100m for every 10k. This might not sound much, but I would consider myself as a dedicated running and so this is rather important for my training.
My assumption is that the stats shown in your app are still with "Intelligent Distances" on. The stats reported to the Activities app are the ones that are comparable with others.

Looking forward to future updates to your app and I hope GPS accuracy gets better with a Series 5 later this year. Otherwise, I may need to buy a dedicated running watch...

Again, your App is great and I think the flaws are on Apple's site. THANKS!

Thanks for using the app. When "Intelligent Distances" are on then the app uses Apple's estimates, which take into account the pedometer (probably in combination with the GPS). When they are off then the app estimates the distance just from the raw GPS positions.

When switched off then the WorkOutDoors app will show the raw GPS distances but Apple's Activity app will still show Apple's estimates. This seems slightly inconsistent with what you are saying because switching them off improves your values but you see better values in the Activity app than in WorkOutDoors with intelligent distances off. This is odd because the Activity app values should not be affected by the setting.

4 bars for GPS signal strength is not great - you should usually see 5 bars unless the location is bad (such as in a dense city). You can analyse the signal strength by tapping the "Steps" tab and selecting "Show GPS". This shows the strength throughout the route. What is the average figure that it shows? About 7m or 8m is normal, although what is normal varies according to the location.

 

[philipp_chris]

How do you disable intelligent distances?

When you go to the settings of the app on the watch, you can find a toggle at the workout section.

 

[cfc]

How do you disable intelligent distances?

Press the watch screen hard and tap Settings then tap Workouts and it is an option on that screen.

 

[philipp_chris]

The screenshots show the same 4 runs. Also as you can see GPS is far worse than it is supposed to be. This is all on the countryside, no buildings close at all. Maybe my watch is just ****...

 

[cfc]

The screenshots show the same 4 runs. Also as you can see GPS is far worse than it is supposed to be. This is all on the countryside, no buildings close at all. Maybe my watch is just ****...

That GPS strength is not great but not awful either. I think you should try switching Intelligent Distances back on and calibrating the watch, because that should compensate for the slightly poor GPS.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204516

You could also try taking your phone with you to see if the GPS when using that is any better. In the GPS signal in the screenshot was your phone nearby when you started? If so then it is worth switching it off or turning off the bluetooth because otherwise any workout watch app will start using the iPhone GPS and then switch to the watch GPS when it gets out of range, which can sometimes cause a temporary drop in accuracy. Unfortunately Apple do not allow a way around this scenario which is very annoying!

 

[philipp_chris]

I usually switch off BT on the phone to avoid what you just mentioned. So yes, it was off and far away.
I will try to recalibrate the watch and switch it back on as suggested. What's your recommendation about "Pace from Pedometer" for best results? On or off?

 

[cfc]

I usually switch off BT on the phone to avoid what you just mentioned. So yes, it was off and far away.
I will try to recalibrate the watch and switch it back on as suggested. What's your recommendation about "Pace from Pedometer" for best results? On or off?

Generally I find that the pace from the pedometer is more accurate than that from the GPS system (which is what the app uses if not using the pedometer, or for non-step based activities). However the pedometer needs the watch to be well calibrated in order to be accurate, as mentioned before.

In either case the app shows Apple's pace estimates, but calculating instantaneous pace is very hard even for Apple. The problem is that the GPS position is not accurate and if you use the pedometer then it has to estimate stride length, which changes as you speed up or slow down. The best way to get an accurate figure is to check over a longer window, but this makes it react more slowly. So generally there is trade off between accuracy (long windows) and responsiveness (short windows).

You may also want to try the Rolling Pace fields, which allow you to specify this window in terms of time or distance. Again the longer the window then the more accurate the pace will be but the less responsive it will be to changes in speed. The app has 3 rolling pace fields so that you can show 3 different windows if you wish, in order to determine which works best for you.

 

[Celestial Wolves]

@cfc: thanks for developing this app!
Having used a Garmin FR220 for >5 years (and FR305 before that), I switched over to AW4 two weeks ago when my FR220 died. I tried the workout app from Apple for about a week, but it was too basic for my needs, and I hated the double-tap gesture to start a new lap.

So I started using the WOD app, which was a revelation for me: plenty of data available, a lot of customization possible, and lots of other features that I didn't have with my Garmin watch. I did a first race using the WOD app, and I really liked being able to see both rolling and avg pace, together with the time-vs-target field to monitor my performance during the race. OK, the weather conditions were perfect, legs felt fine, but I'm sure that the WOD app also helped me break my PR during this 10-miles race last Sunday (finished in 56.00min).

However, there's one important feature that I'm missing in the app (or maybe I missed this earlier in this thread ...): is there an easy way to start a new lap when using the WOD app? Gestures like double-tap or simultaneously pushing the digital crown and button below are simply too complicated when running: such gestures fail more often than not.

The HIIT functionality planned for the next WOD upgrade might be part of the solution, but I like to start (and stop) my laps manually. Could it be an option to assign the 'next lap' function to the side button below the digital crown? Such shortcut would be very easy, also when running fast. I have seen in the settings menu that some of this can be customized, but no shortcut can be defined for pushing the side button only.

Thanks for your inputs!

 

[cfc]

@cfc: thanks for developing this app!
Having used a Garmin FR220 for >5 years (and FR305 before that), I switched over to AW4 two weeks ago when my FR220 died. I tried the workout app from Apple for about a week, but it was too basic for my needs, and I hated the double-tap gesture to start a new lap.

So I started using the WOD app, which was a revelation for me: plenty of data available, a lot of customization possible, and lots of other features that I didn't have with my Garmin watch. I did a first race using the WOD app, and I really liked being able to see both rolling and avg pace, together with the time-vs-target field to monitor my performance during the race. OK, the weather conditions were perfect, legs felt fine, but I'm sure that the WOD app also helped me break my PR during this 10-miles race last Sunday (finished in 56.00min).

However, there's one important feature that I'm missing in the app (or maybe I missed this earlier in this thread ...): is there an easy way to start a new lap when using the WOD app? Gestures like double-tap or simultaneously pushing the digital crown and button below are simply too complicated when running: such gestures fail more often than not.

The HIIT functionality planned for the next WOD upgrade might be part of the solution, but I like to start (and stop) my laps manually. Could it be an option to assign the 'next lap' function to the side button below the digital crown? Such shortcut would be very easy, also when running fast. I have seen in the settings menu that some of this can be customized, but no shortcut can be defined for pushing the side button only.

Thanks for your inputs!

Thanks for your very kind words about the app! I'm glad that you found it so useful.

Unfortunately Apple do not give apps the ability to control what happens when the side button or the crown are pressed individually. The only button presses that apps can detect is when both side buttons are pressed at the same time. I guess this is because there are standard watchOS functions that are invoked when you press them individually and Apple want these functions to be available at all times.

Hopefully Apple will one day release a new model of the watch with more buttons. It would be great if they could produce a rugged fitness version, possibly with a larger battery as well as the extra configurable buttons. It's unlikely but I can dream...

 

[Otto Pilot]

Ok super nit picky request that should be taken to mean if I’m asking for this you are doing something right and have an amazing app...I do my runs at 0430 in the morning before kids are up. Is there any way to set how the app categorizes/names workout? Specifically, the auto generated workout when I hit “done” names the workout as for example “Friday Night Run.” Ideally, I could set what it considers “night” be “stupid early in the morning” (or just “morning” ). Again, take this minor suggestion in the spirit it was intended, which is that your app continues to be hands-down the best running app on the watch and I am most eagerly awaiting testing the intervals when they arrive!!

 

[cfc]

Ok super nit picky request that should be taken to mean if I’m asking for this you are doing something right and have an amazing app...I do my runs at 0430 in the morning before kids are up. Is there any way to set how the app categorizes/names workout? Specifically, the auto generated workout when I hit “done” names the workout as for example “Friday Night Run.” Ideally, I could set what it considers “night” be “stupid early in the morning” (or just “morning” ). Again, take this minor suggestion in the spirit it was intended, which is that your app continues to be hands-down the best running app on the watch and I am most eagerly awaiting testing the intervals when they arrive!!

The logic in the app considers anything before 5am as night and anything after that as morning. However I can see that this is wrong for you, so I have changed the code so that night will be anything before 4am in the next version. I think it is fair for 3:30am to be considered night but 4:30am is more likely to be morning.

I think the reason that this was wrong is because the app used to base the default name of the workout on the time that it finished. However I changed it to use the time of the start of the workout in the last version, but I didn't adjust the time ranges accordingly.

Thanks for pointing that out. Glad you still like the app!

 

[Otto Pilot]

Wow...now that’s am impressive response and one more reason you and your app continue to be awesome...thanks!! And yes, I’d safely call 0330 night without much argument!

 

[FunkyMagicUK]

Are the labels from the Solar watch face exposed by an API maybe? (I’m guessing not, the weather apps that give sunset times seem to use a different time to what I see on the Solar face)

If so you could have DAY, TWILIGHT, NIGHT labels accurate to the users location and time of year

 

[cfc]

Are the labels from the Solar watch face exposed by an API maybe? (I’m guessing not, the weather apps that give sunset times seem to use a different time to what I see on the Solar face)

If so you could have DAY, TWILIGHT, NIGHT labels accurate to the users location and time of year

I have added sunset/sunrise metrics to the next version, so I could use them to improve the naming logic. I have been considering using both the start and end times to determine the name, but using sunrise/sunset times as well would be even better. I will have a think about it, although probably not for the next version.

 

[Monkswhiskers]

Swimming activity would be great. Strokes per min & SWOLF score.
[doublepost=1557521188][/doublepost]

FWIW, with a Series 4 in the last 7 days I’ve ran a marathon that was measured within 100m accuracy, a half marathon that was within 45metres accuracy, a 10k that was within 125m and a 5k that actually beeped the 5km mark as I crossed the line.

The 10k was in and around MediaCity, so lots of tall buildings and also quite a lot of corners, which probably explains the slight increase in accuracy there...looking at the activity in the phone app I can see accuracy goes worse than 15m quite often when I was running between buildings.

The marathon was at Blackpool, so very open, and also very straight (which both result in good accuracy), I only had to zig zag a bit passing groups of slower runners for the opening 10mins or so, and then it thinned out quite nicely.


I DID run and walk a couple of 30 minute sessions using the standard Workout app a few months ago, no idea if that has helped with calibration etc for the live displayed stats. I do have intelligent distances enabled although I may do some experiments with that on a measured track at some point.

I run around Mediacity sometimes too and have similar issues.

 

[cfc]

Swimming activity would be great. Strokes per min & SWOLF score.

I will add swimming in a future version. It wasn't included originally because it has a lot of specific features (lengths, stroke types etc) and the app was geared towards outdoor workouts, so I decided that it wasn't worth adding for just open water swimming. However the next version has indoor workouts so it now makes more sense to add it.

My current plan is to add it at the same time as triathlon support, which will build upon the new "intervals" features that will be in the next version.

 

[Monkswhiskers]

Excellent news! Yes, outdoor swimming is very hard for watches due to constant gps signal loss when it goes under the water. I have tried a few and the Apple Watch is by far the best probably due to the algos Apple use to 'fill in the blanks' between gps captures.

 

[supernacho]

Hi,

When are you going to release the new version? I'm really looking forward to using the new features you mentioned.

 

[cfc]

Hi,

When are you going to release the new version? I'm really looking forward to using the new features you mentioned.

I don't really like to give estimates because I am very bad at them. I will say "very soon" and then realise that I need (or want) to add something else. For example I got a bit carried away on the intervals functionality and made the notification features more customisable than the standard notifications, so I realised that I should really improve the standard ones as well.

I think I have finished all the coding and I am now doing my own alpha testing. The plan is to release to beta testers when I am happy with it, which is difficult to estimate but hopefully in the coming weeks.

I also want to make sure that the new version works on the first watchOS 6 beta, because I know that lots of people will be trying that out after the WWDC keynote, so it will definitely not be released until after that.

Sorry I can't be more specific. If it's any consolation I have added a lot more features than I planned to!

 

[rbart]

And maybe some WatchOS 6 features will help you for your next version ...

 

[cfc]

And maybe some WatchOS 6 features will help you for your next version ...

I hope so. I plan to release the next version when watchOS 6 is in early beta, but I will probably release the following version shortly (hopefully!) after it is released, which will make use of whatever they announce.

I have a long wish list of things that I am hoping for, but the main one is improved sensor support for power, cadence etc.

 

[ActionableMango]

@cfc, I just wanted to drop in and say that WorkOutDoors is one of the best applications that I've ever bought in my life on any platform.

With almost every app I buy, I have a "I would have done it this way" moment where I think of improvements. In contrast, WOD one of the few apps where how you did it is better in every way than what I would have thought of.

Furthermore, WorkOutDoors is an incredible value. The features and capability provided by your application elevates the Apple Watch to a level where it can compete quite well against similarly-priced and higher-priced dedicated workout watches such as those from Garmin.

------------------------------------------

I do have a "bug report" to make (sorry):

Background Summary:

• I run with WOD and have 5-minute interval audible alerts.
• I listen to Overcast (a postcast app) while running.
• I have AW Series 4 and use AirPods for audio.
• With this combination, there is a significant problem with volume.

Expected Behavior:

• Every time an audible alert occurs, podcast audio should be sharply reduced for the duration of the audible alert and resume back to normal after the audible alert has ended.

Actual Behavior:

• The first time an audible alert occurs, podcast audio is sharply reduced. However, after the audible alert has ended, podcast audio remains reduced and so is nearly inaudible.
• Podcast audio remains sharply reduced until the workout is manually ended in WOD app, at which point it returns to normal volume.

Suggested Change:

• Podcast audio should return to normal volume at end of every audible alert, not at end of workout.

Procedure to Replicate:

1. Start podcast in Overcast and listen with AirPods.
2. Set AW volume to 50%.
3. Start WorkOutDoors.
4. Configure 5-minute interval alert.
5. Start WOD workout (jogging in my case).
6. At 5 minutes when the first audible alert happens, the podcast audio volume is lowered (presumably so that the audible alert can be heard over it). Note that once the audible alert is done, the podcast audio volume is not returned to its former level--instead it remains very quiet. The AW volume has not changed (still 50%).
7. End the current workout in WOD. Note that the podcast audio returns to normal level.

 

[cfc]

@cfc, I just wanted to drop in and say that WorkOutDoors is one of the best applications that I've ever bought in my life on any platform.

With almost every app I buy, I have a "I would have done it this way" moment where I think of improvements. In contrast, WOD one of the few apps where how you did it is better in every way than what I would have thought of.

Furthermore, WorkOutDoors is an incredible value. The features and capability provided by your application elevates the Apple Watch to a level where it can compete quite well against similarly-priced and higher-priced dedicated workout watches such as those from Garmin.

------------------------------------------

I do have a "bug report" to make (sorry):

Background Summary:

• I run with WOD and have 5-minute interval audible alerts.
• I listen to Overcast (a postcast app) while running.
• I have AW Series 4 and use AirPods for audio.
• With this combination, there is a significant problem with volume.

Expected Behavior:

• Every time an audible alert occurs, podcast audio should be sharply reduced for the duration of the audible alert and resume back to normal after the audible alert has ended.

Actual Behavior:

• The first time an audible alert occurs, podcast audio is sharply reduced. However, after the audible alert has ended, podcast audio remains reduced and so is nearly inaudible.
• Podcast audio remains sharply reduced until the workout is manually ended in WOD app, at which point it returns to normal volume.

Suggested Change:

• Podcast audio should return to normal volume at end of every audible alert, not at end of workout.

Procedure to Replicate:

1. Start podcast in Overcast and listen with AirPods.
2. Set AW volume to 50%.
3. Start WorkOutDoors.
4. Configure 5-minute interval alert.
5. Start WOD workout (jogging in my case).
6. At 5 minutes when the first audible alert happens, the podcast audio volume is lowered (presumably so that the audible alert can be heard over it). Note that once the audible alert is done, the podcast audio volume is not returned to its former level--instead it remains very quiet. The AW volume has not changed (still 50%).
7. End the current workout in WOD. Note that the podcast audio returns to normal level.

Wow! Many thanks for your comments about the app - I really appreciate that.

Thanks also for the highly detailed bug report. I am sorry about the volume bug - I have fixed it in the code and so it will be fixed in the next version, but that will not be released for 6 to 8 weeks (hopefully). I don't listen to music whilst working out so I missed it when testing.

It was an easy fix - Apple have the concept of a session when an app asks the watch to say something. The idea is that the app starts a session, speaks something, and then ends the session. However I misread the documentation and start a session on the first words but do not end it until the app is closed, instead of creating a new session every time.

I assume that watchOS lowers the volume of other apps whilst a session is open, which is why they stay at a low volume after the first words are spoken by WorkOutDoors. Sorry about that.

Thanks again for your kind words!