Apps WorkOutDoors: New workout features

[cfc]

On the above...(and aware this is slightly off focus for WOD)...but recently I’ve been running with the Stryd app as my primary interface (because of the better-than-Apple pace metrics initially, but I’ve embraced their power based approach and use zone or target power alerts in my structured training runs now)), and with RunGo running in the background talking to me on upcoming turns (i *disable* RunGos permission to write Workouts, so it is just a voice guidance tool for me), and then with the same route loaded into WOD running in MapOnly mode as a second level of support if the voice guidance isn’t enough.

This seems to work really well although I’ve only used it for shortish road based running up to 2hrs or so.

So two questions for WOD then...

1) Is voice nav on the radar at all (even as a paid premium extension?), so I can look forward to dumping RunGo? And if so...how would this work?? Is there a standard for inserting custom nav points into a GPX?? I’ve used MapOut for planning all my long off road runs in the past to load into WOD as simple routes, but once you’ve got the hang of it, the route planning and ability to drag custom turn points and alert messages into the route at any point in RunGo is fantastic (I’d pay for the premium RunGo simply for the planning aspect, if the exported file could be used effectively for voice nav in WOD (plus the map).

2) How will Stryd integration work?? I don’t really get it. I assume they dont have an API but I see that they DO have FIT/TCX upload. Is the likelihood that WOD with Stryd support would give access to the Power metrics, but if I want my Critical Power etc to be maintained inside the Stryd ecosystem, I’d have to manually export from WOD and upload the TCX to get my activities with embedded power data into Stryd?


As noted above, the Stryd app is currently my front and centre, but I hope in 6/9/12 months or so WOD has voice nav and Stryd support and I can go back to using just a single app to track my runs!! (Even if that does involve a manual step to keep Stryd updated).

Voice navigation is definitely on the radar. However, like a few other features, it would cost me extra money so it will probably be a premium feature in a subscription. There are services which can take a GPX route and create voice instructions for it, but they cost money.

However I know that subscriptions put people off so I don't plan on doing it yet. At the moment I am just trying to increase the user base and a subscription would probably hinder that. I would never make existing features part of a subscription, but new features are another matter, especially if they cost me money.

Stryd integration is also on the radar. I bought the footpod a year ago and they sent me details of how to connect using bluetooth, but I haven't yet got around to it. To be honest I may make it part of a future subscription. Most of the extra features I am considering for a subscription are maps and navigation based (topo maps, satellite maps, voice-nav etc) so it would be good to have some premium workout-related features as well.

When I do connect to Stryd then I will be able to add metrics for power as well as all the advanced pedometer metrics. I will also give an option to use the footpod for distance and current pace. Power cannot currently be stored in Apple Health (as far as I know) so the only way to export it will be via TCX files.

So to answer your questions: voice-nav and Stryd will be in a future version but probably not until I add a subscription, which I am in no hurry to do because it would put people off. Sorry about that!

 

[Significant1]

I think you are right about Apple Health missing power. Rungab misses a lot of STRYD data, when importing to garmin connect. Much better to export FIT file from stryd and manually import into garmin connect.

 

[Wando64]

Yesterday I forgotten to terminate my WOD workout and the app eventually discharged my AW.
Apple's own workout app would always detect if I had finished a workout but forgotten to stop the recording and prompt me to do so.
Can this be enabled on WOD?

 

[cfc]

Yesterday I forgotten to terminate my WOD workout and the app eventually discharged my AW.
Apple's own workout app would always detect if I had finished a workout but forgotten to stop the recording and prompt me to do so.
Can this be enabled on WOD?

The app cannot do this at the moment. I may add something like it in the future but have no specific plans at the moment. Sorry about that.

 

[Otto Pilot]

New job with a new gym has had me running on the treadmill more, so I ended up getting a Stryd pod for increased accuracy and to play around with Zwift. Now I can very much say that I enthusiastically support getting Stryd into WOD. You still have, hands-down, the best running and bike tracking app on the Watch. Intervals are utterly fantastic. So of course now I’m in “I want it all” mode regarding Stryd I’ve said before that of all the apps I use, yours is the one I’d most happily pay a subscription for, as you really do deliver on the constant improvement ethos. Almost feel guilty coasting on the same purchase I made in...check...November 2017. Well done sir!

 

[mgmooij]

On the above...(and aware this is slightly off focus for WOD)...but recently I’ve been running with the Stryd app as my primary interface (because of the better-than-Apple pace metrics initially, but I’ve embraced their power based approach and use zone or target power alerts in my structured training runs now)), and with RunGo running in the background talking to me on upcoming turns (i *disable* RunGos permission to write Workouts, so it is just a voice guidance tool for me), and then with the same route loaded into WOD running in MapOnly mode as a second level of support if the voice guidance isn’t enough.

This seems to work really well although I’ve only used it for shortish road based running up to 2hrs or so.

So two questions for WOD then...

1) Is voice nav on the radar at all (even as a paid premium extension?), so I can look forward to dumping RunGo? And if so...how would this work?? Is there a standard for inserting custom nav points into a GPX?? I’ve used MapOut for planning all my long off road runs in the past to load into WOD as simple routes, but once you’ve got the hang of it, the route planning and ability to drag custom turn points and alert messages into the route at any point in RunGo is fantastic (I’d pay for the premium RunGo simply for the planning aspect, if the exported file could be used effectively for voice nav in WOD (plus the map).

2) How will Stryd integration work?? I don’t really get it. I assume they dont have an API but I see that they DO have FIT/TCX upload. Is the likelihood that WOD with Stryd support would give access to the Power metrics, but if I want my Critical Power etc to be maintained inside the Stryd ecosystem, I’d have to manually export from WOD and upload the TCX to get my activities with embedded power data into Stryd?


As noted above, the Stryd app is currently my front and centre, but I hope in 6/9/12 months or so WOD has voice nav and Stryd support and I can go back to using just a single app to track my runs!! (Even if that does involve a manual step to keep Stryd updated).

are you saying that its possible to run with 3 apps together on the watch at the same time without having (crash)issues besides shorter battery? Would it be possible to switch between the apps without one crashing? I have no problem with running with the Stryd-app but sometimes I want to run a specific route so I need (and want) to use WOD. But if the Stryd app could log the run at the background and I could switch between the two (or can Stryd give voicecommands while having the Maponly of WOD in front?) that would be perfect. Are the logs of the distance and speed then from Stryd or from WOD? Still, an all in one app someday would be superior 😁. And I would be happy to pay for it 😉

 

[FunkyMagicUK]

are you saying that its possible to run with 3 apps together on the watch at the same time without having (crash)issues besides shorter battery? Would it be possible to switch between the apps without one crashing? I have no problem with running with the Stryd-app but sometimes I want to run a specific route so I need (and want) to use WOD. But if the Stryd app could log the run at the background and I could switch between the two (or can Stryd give voicecommands while having the Maponly of WOD in front?) that would be perfect. Are the logs of the distance and speed then from Stryd or from WOD? Still, all in one app sometimes would be superior 😁. And I would be happy to pay for it 😉

Yup.
You can kick off a run with Stryd, then open WOD for route following on the map (just use “map only mode” to avoid any complications about recording multiple workouts).
Stryd will give you power alert beeps if you’ve got them enabled and auto lap alerts, whilst “backgrounded” if you’re looking at maps.
You can toggle between the two apps by double tapping the crown button (bit odd setting this up as you need to start both apps without going via the normal time or app selector screens (otherwise theyll take up one of the double tap slots), but i just keep WOD and Stryd locked in dock, fire one up, then press the home key or whatever it’s called to get the dock and launch the other from there...double tag to toggle then works just fine.

(not aware of voice alerts on Stryd?).

Also...to be honest I dont really notice any significant increased battery drain.

 

[mgmooij]

not aware of voice alerts on Stryd?

Hmm my mistake I guess... just started with Stryd 🤭

 

[FunkyMagicUK]

Hmm my mistake I guess... just started with Stryd 🤭

there may well be voice, there are a whole load of “audio cues” that I have disabled!

 

[bbn26]

Hey @cfc !
Any news on the current pace fix? Unfortunately I’ve tried all variants (gps, pedometer, 10s rolling) and none matches the native app in accuracy

 

[maurycyorlik]

yeah, same for me. I've switched to native app because of that

 

[cfc]

Hey @cfc !
Any news on the current pace fix? Unfortunately I’ve tried all variants (gps, pedometer, 10s rolling) and none matches the native app in accuracy

The next version will have a third option that calculates the instantaneous pace from the distance estimates provided by Apple. This seems better than using the pace provided by the pedometer or GPS, even when smoothed.

In the meantime you could try the rolling pace but longer than 10s, which is probably short enough to be affected by GPS inaccuracies.

 

[raulxininen]

The next version will have a third option that calculates the instantaneous pace from the distance estimates provided by Apple. This seems better than using the pace provided by the pedometer or GPS, even when smoothed.

In the meantime you could try the rolling pace but longer than 10s, which is probably short enough to be affected by GPS inaccuracies.

can you tell us a release date (aprox) for this pace feature?

thanks

 

[cfc]

can you tell us a release date (aprox) for this pace feature?

thanks

I don't like to give estimates of release dates because things can change. Also I was skiing last week so I am currently analysing the data from that and deciding whether to include new skiing functionality in the next version, which would affect the timings. Sorry about that.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I used WOD for the first time today on the watch, and I am very impressed with its accuracy, layout, and metrics. It is so much better than the stock Apple app and many others. Worth every penny spent on the purchase.

Bravo.

 

[cfc]

I used WOD for the first time today on the watch, and I am very impressed with its accuracy, layout, and metrics. It is so much better than the stock Apple app and many others. Worth every penny spent on the purchase.

Bravo.

That’s great to hear! Glad you like the app.

 

[rbart]

Small question ...
As you know, Apple watch built-in workout app smoothes a lot the map.
Workoutdoors seems more "raw".
Do you think there is a difference in overall distance (and avg pace) calculation between WOD and Apple Workout ?
I have noticed that my apple watch overestimates distances (10.2km on the watch for 10km "official").
Do you think WOD is more accurate ?
I have noticed in GPS data in WOD that there is a "GPS distance data" ... what's this ?

 

[maurycyorlik]

Yeah, best there is on the Apple watch. I even managed to calm down that pace problem to acceptable state with 10 sec rolling pace.

Wish list!
- user waypoints on the map.
- add a metric "distance to destination" when route is enabled.

P.s. I've done a long term acctivity test for midway charging.
AW connected to iPhone.

Recorded for 6 hours > paused my activity > took of my watch and put it on a charger for 50 min > put it back on my wrist, unpaused and... it kept recording with no issues. That's great!

 

[cfc]

Small question ...
As you know, Apple watch built-in workout app smoothes a lot the map.
Workoutdoors seems more "raw".
Do you think there is a difference in overall distance (and avg pace) calculation between WOD and Apple Workout ?
I have noticed that my apple watch overestimates distances (10.2km on the watch for 10km "official").
Do you think WOD is more accurate ?
I have noticed in GPS data in WOD that there is a "GPS distance data" ... what's this ?

By default the distance recorded by WorkOutDoors should be identical to that recorded by the native Workout app. This is because the app uses Apple's distance estimates, which use the calibrated pedometer.

However the app also calculates the distance from the raw GPS positions. This is the metric that you can see on the GPS tab on the iPhone app. Usually they will be similar but if not then the watch needs to be calibrated or the GPS signal was poor.

If you do not like the calibrated distances then you can switch to using the GPS distances by pressing the watch screen hard and tapping Settings then More. Then switch off the "Use Calibrated Distances" option. Note that this option is obviously more subject to GPS issues (which are not uncommon on the watch!), but some people do prefer it.
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Yeah, best there is on the Apple watch. I even managed to calm down that pace problem to acceptable state with 10 sec rolling pace.

Wish list!
- user waypoints on the map.
- add a metric "distance to destination" when route is enabled.

P.s. I've done a long term acctivity test for midway charging.
AW connected to iPhone.

Recorded for 6 hours > paused my activity > took of my watch and put it on a charger for 50 min > put it back on my wrist, unpaused and... it kept recording with no issues. That's great!

Those wish list requests are both on my list of features to add.

I am glad that the app ket running whilst on the charger but you may have just been lucky. When an app is running a workout it seems to get protection from watchOS killing it off when it needs resources for other apps. However this protection does not seem to apply when the app is off your wrist, so it becomes vulnerable, for example if the watch is running other apps in the background.

So I usually recommend saving a workout and starting a new one just in case. Usually you will be fine (as you were) but it is probably not worth the risk.

Glad you like the app!

 

[user1234]

I have had an issue lately where the battery and GPS signal indicators take a while to update after opening the app. Before they would update instantly but now they show the values from last time I used the app for around 5 seconds before it updates with current information. It caught me off guard a few times in the beginning when I notices that I had 60% battery and full GPS and then I started the workout and 2 seconds later I had 38% battery and no GPS signal.

The same thing happen with the heartrate value when I start a workout. I have just walked out the door and started a workout and it reads 110-120 bmp, then falls to ~80 a couple of seconds later.

I feel like this may have started to happen after a watchOS update but I’m not sure. Is this a known issue? I will reinstall the app unless it’s a known issue and it won’t help.

As a side note, man is it awesome to have a detailed map on the watch while walking in a new city or area. I have noticed being close to interesting locations I would have otherwise missed out on because of it. My favorite and most used Apple Watch app by far 👍🏻😀

 

[maurycyorlik]

Those wish list requests are both on my list of features to add.

Great! Comparing it with Fenix 6x Pro and whole Garmin app ecosystem and I'm seriously impressed what only one guy can do that a big company can't.

Apple Watch with Your app + MapOut + Strong + Autosleep + Apple Health + Strava (for social, segments and online backup) are just better... All working great together and offline! (besides Strava off course).

Can't wait to see what You, watchOS 7 and AW 6 brings new.

 

[cfc]

I have had an issue lately where the battery and GPS signal indicators take a while to update after opening the app. Before they would update instantly but now they show the values from last time I used the app for around 5 seconds before it updates with current information. It caught me off guard a few times in the beginning when I notices that I had 60% battery and full GPS and then I started the workout and 2 seconds later I had 38% battery and no GPS signal.

The same thing happen with the heartrate value when I start a workout. I have just walked out the door and started a workout and it reads 110-120 bmp, then falls to ~80 a couple of seconds later.

I feel like this may have started to happen after a watchOS update but I’m not sure. Is this a known issue? I will reinstall the app unless it’s a known issue and it won’t help.

As a side note, man is it awesome to have a detailed map on the watch while walking in a new city or area. I have noticed being close to interesting locations I would have otherwise missed out on because of it. My favorite and most used Apple Watch app by far 👍🏻😀

No-one else is reporting the GPS delay. It sounds like your watch may be running a bit slowly so it may be worth rebooting it to see if that helps.

The heart rate delay is more normal - it can take a few seconds for the sensor to get a proper lock. However Apple now allow apps to get frequent heart rate updates outside of a workout, so I plan to show that on the main menu like the GPS signal. Then you will be able to wait for a good lock with both before starting a workout.

However apps need to request this ability from Apple; I did this many months ago (and several times since) but Apple never got back to me. Although I shouldn't be surprised - Apple tend to ignore us developers!

Thanks for your kind words about the app!
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Great! Comparing it with Fenix 6x Pro and whole Garmin app ecosystem and I'm seriously impressed what only one guy can do that a big company can't.

Apple Watch with Your app + MapOut + Strong + Autosleep + Apple Health + Strava (for social, segments and online backup) are just better... All working great together and offline! (besides Strava off course).

Can't wait to see what You, watchOS 7 and AW 6 brings new.

Thanks!

 

[user1234]

No-one else is reporting the GPS delay. It sounds like your watch may be running a bit slowly so it may be worth rebooting it to see if that helps.
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Thanks!

Interesting. I have rebooted several times and installed updates since it started happening. I may just have to reinstall the app and see it that helps, or unpair/repair the watch.

 

[FunkyMagicUK]

No-one else is reporting the GPS delay. It sounds like your watch may be running a bit slowly so it may be worth rebooting it to see if that helps.

The heart rate delay is more normal - it can take a few seconds for the sensor to get a proper lock. However Apple now allow apps to get frequent heart rate updates outside of a workout, so I plan to show that on the main menu like the GPS signal. Then you will be able to wait for a good lock with both before starting a workout.

However apps need to request this ability from Apple; I did this many months ago (and several times since) but Apple never got back to me. Although I shouldn't be surprised - Apple tend to ignore us developers!

Thanks for your kind words about the app!
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Thanks!

Isn‘t the “delay” being described here the same issue that came along when WatchOS6 was released last September (at least on AW4)?? Multiple reported this and I’m sure you acknowledged the behaviour??

When raising the wrist whilst running, WOD initially displays “whatever was on screen last time the screen was on”...before updating and display the current data a short time after.

If you have a map screen you can see this by moving far between looking at screen, if you glance you’ll see previous map, then the map will swoosh to the new location.

Same with all other metrics...ie...glance and distance or pace will show previously displayed value before updating.

It makes WOD quite difficult to use for race management compared to pre WatchOS6 🙁

 

[cfc]

Interesting. I have rebooted several times and installed updates since it started happening. I may just have to reinstall the app and see it that helps, or unpair/repair the watch.

If you do reinstall the app then make sure it is only the watch app that you reinstall. It may also be worth updating watchOS to the latest version released yesterday in case that helps. Not because I think it will fix any specific bug but because updating watchOS can sometimes fix strange errors that rebooting doesn’t solve.
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Isn‘t the “delay” being described here the same issue that came along when WatchOS6 was released last September (at least on AW4)?? Multiple reported this and I’m sure you acknowledged the behaviour??

When raising the wrist whilst running, WOD initially displays “whatever was on screen last time the screen was on”...before updating and display the current data a short time after.

If you have a map screen you can see this by moving far between looking at screen, if you glance you’ll see previous map, then the map will swoosh to the new location.

Same with all other metrics...ie...glance and distance or pace will show previously displayed value before updating.

It makes WOD quite difficult to use for race management compared to pre WatchOS6 🙁

This was a bug in watchOS 6 that I worked around in the latest version of the app that was released 3 months ago, so it should not be happening any more. It was also more of an issue during a workout than on the main menu.

The problem was that WatchOS 6 no longer informs the currently displayed screen when the user raises their wrist. However it still informs another aspect of the app. So in the latest version released in November that part of the app now informs the current screen, which gets around the problem (although Apple have still not fixed the bug as far as I know).

If you are still seeing the issue then make sure you have the latest version of the watch app. Just having the latest version of the iPhone app is not enough any more because it now seems possible to update one without the other (although I am not sure how). To check this press the watch screen hard and tap Settings then More. In the latest version I have added the version number at the bottom of this screen (4.1.3). If you cannot see this then go to the App Store on the watch and update from there.