We're beating a dead horse here. Some like it, some hate it. The majority don't necessarily hate because you'll find often people only pipe up to complain. The satisfied ones tend to be the silent ones. Either way the new look is likely here to stay for a while so it's either deal with it or move on. I do think people are overreacting but I also know people have their own tastes and visions. We probably should wait till official release though to give any final verdict.
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Yosemite looks terrible!
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I agree, and I believe we're starting to see a reflection of this in the iOS8 upgrade stats. I believe that for a minority of non-upgraders their decision is due to a perception of a regression in the quality of the software Apple has been producing of late, a large part of which is due to changes in the UX.
With OS X I expect that after the initial wave of upgrades, and once word-of-mouth gets out, we may see a similar slow-down in upgrades.
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No joy with WebKit, either, so Yosemite is firmly rejected
Today's WebKit nightly 8.0 (10600.1.25, r174650) has the same regression as Safari.app
so I'll continue with Mavericks, requisition a new MacBook Pro tomorrow (before Yosemite becomes a requirement) and more broadly, continue to abandon OS X.
I expect the notebook to last me at least six years by then, I'll probably be even further away from Apple.
Yosemite is an interesting experiment, with some beautiful parts, but the overall appearance repels me. It's rejected.
Today's WebKit nightly 8.0 (10600.1.25, r174650) has the same regression as Safari.app
so I'll continue with Mavericks, requisition a new MacBook Pro tomorrow (before Yosemite becomes a requirement) and more broadly, continue to abandon OS X. I expect the notebook to last me at least six years by then, I'll probably be even further away from Apple.
Yosemite is an interesting experiment, with some beautiful parts, but the overall appearance repels me. It's rejected.
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I wonder what Steve Jobs would have thought of this fiasco. Where have you ever seen such a degree of outrage at a change?
IMHO if you don't like it or don't need it, don't use it.
JUST SAY NO TO APPLE'S MARKETING INDUCED HYPE!!!
I don't need any of the new features of the product because our company started dropping iPhones and iPads after iOS 7 was released. On top of that a lot of apps no longer work.
There's simply no need for me to use it.
IMHO if you don't like it or don't need it, don't use it.
JUST SAY NO TO APPLE'S MARKETING INDUCED HYPE!!!
I don't need any of the new features of the product because our company started dropping iPhones and iPads after iOS 7 was released. On top of that a lot of apps no longer work.
There's simply no need for me to use it.
Hmm let me see...
- After Mac OS X 10.0 Puma was first introduced
- After Mac OS X 10.3 Panther was first introduced*
- After Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard was first introduced
- After OS X Lion was first introduced
So basically after the introduction of every (Mac) OS X version featuring major changes to the Aqua interface.
*During the Mac OS X Panther Developer Previews I vividly remember people crying, kicking and screaming they would never upgrade beyond Mac OS X 10.2 Jaguar. How Apple completely lost their minds for removing most of Aqua's transparency (mind you, this was before video cards were powerful enough to do the blur effect). People were outraged the harsh pinstripes and bright white tints were toned down. Saying they would never buy a Mac that came pre-installed with Mac OS X 10.3 Panther as long as Apple didn't restore original Aqua, bla bla bla. Sounds familiar doesn't it?
Ironic how people here are celebrating Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger's interface introduced by Mac OS X 10.3 Panther (short of the unified title/toolbar look). In 2003 it was every bit as controversial among the same type of people as OS X Yosemite is today.
It's hilarious to read clueless comments about how this supposedly never happened before in the history of OS X.
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Today's WebKit nightly 8.0 (10600.1.25, r174650) on 14A388a has the same regression as Safari.app
Graham, I enjoy your posts, but I really think that its a bit over-dramatic to abandon an entire OS because one singular shipped app does not do what you want. The market is full of free browsers. Then again, you are not so far from programming yourself, it should be simple enough to make a patch for open source Safari (Webkit Nightly) to show the title bar.
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I bet Steve Jobs would have loved it, as I am more than sure that the visual paradigm shift was initiated in his time. And to your second question: try every major OS X release
The only reason why reaction to Yosemite involves so many people is because the open beta is accessible to so many.
Hmm let me see...
- After Mac OS X 10.0 Puma was first introduced
- After Mac OS X 10.3 Panther was first introduced*
- After Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard was first introduced
- After OS X Lion was first introduced
So basically after the introduction of every (Mac) OS X version featuring major changes to the Aqua interface.
*During the Mac OS X Panther Developer Previews I vividly remember people crying, kicking and screaming they would never upgrade beyond Mac OS X 10.2 Jaguar. How Apple completely lost their minds for removing most of Aqua's transparency (mind you, this was before video cards were powerful enough to do the blur effect). People were outraged the harsh pinstripes and bright white tints were toned down. Saying they would never buy a Mac that came pre-installed with Mac OS X 10.3 Panther as long as Apple didn't restore original Aqua, bla bla bla. Sounds familiar doesn't it?
It's ironic how people here are celebrating Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger's interface introduced by Mac OS X 10.3 Panther (short of the unified title/toolbar look). In 2003 it was every bit as controversial among the same type of people as OS X Yosemite is today.
It's hilarious to read clueless comments about how this supposedly never happened before in the history of OS X.
Not really. I welcomed the change. But Yosemite I do not. Its horrible.
Stupid me for thinking there were more Mac users than just you back in 2003. Let alone people who thought differently than you.
Just some of the reasons why Mavericks is better for me than Yosemite
I'm often verbose but please understand that only a fraction of the problems that I find are posted publicly.
Just some of the reasons for my rejection of Yosemite …
No! There's much more to it than that.
My disappointment with the GM candidate goes beyond the look of Safari 8. Beyond the look of WebKit.app on Yosemite.
The reduced accessibility bothers me.
Yes, the transparency can be reduced, but Apple's default is excessive. I will never install Yosemite for a friend or colleague without drawing attention to the Accessibility pane of System Preferences.
A greater problem affecting accessibility: fonts. I have not tried patching against Helvetica recently but when I last did so, it did not have the required effect in (at least) Safari. When I last wrote publicly about font legibility problems (around a month ago, maybe) I didn't bother to repeat it but as previously reported:
Beyond fonts: there's the brightness. With f.lux Yosemite becomes tolerable, but I want my preferred operating system to appear more than just tolerable. I probably didn't mention it before now, but f.lux is not a panacea for my use case. I want better.
Mavericks is better.
Readers who have followed the title bar discussions will probably know that whilst rejecting Safari – which I always love in operating systems less than 10.10 – I could enjoy OmniWeb. But that's not as enjoyable as Safari in Mavericks. Less integration, and so on.
Mavericks is better.
HFS Plus and Core Storage? Don't get me started.
I could go on, but doing so would be somewhat pointless. Yosemite has thoroughly dulled my interest in Apple products. Honestly, happily, I'm now more interested in watching TV than in OS X 10.10 … more interested in watching normal TV than wondering about what might be announced tomorrow … hey ho and it's off to bed I go.
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Design versus user experience image credits: https://twitter.com/IDLabTweets/status/507046554952163328 via http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/17568275#17568275
I'm often verbose but please understand that only a fraction of the problems that I find are posted publicly.
Just some of the reasons for my rejection of Yosemite …
No! There's much more to it than that.
My disappointment with the GM candidate goes beyond the look of Safari 8. Beyond the look of WebKit.app on Yosemite.
The reduced accessibility bothers me.
Yes, the transparency can be reduced, but Apple's default is excessive. I will never install Yosemite for a friend or colleague without drawing attention to the Accessibility pane of System Preferences.
A greater problem affecting accessibility: fonts. I have not tried patching against Helvetica recently but when I last did so, it did not have the required effect in (at least) Safari. When I last wrote publicly about font legibility problems (around a month ago, maybe) I didn't bother to repeat it but as previously reported:
Beyond fonts: there's the brightness. With f.lux Yosemite becomes tolerable, but I want my preferred operating system to appear more than just tolerable. I probably didn't mention it before now, but f.lux is not a panacea for my use case. I want better.
Mavericks is better.
Readers who have followed the title bar discussions will probably know that whilst rejecting Safari – which I always love in operating systems less than 10.10 – I could enjoy OmniWeb. But that's not as enjoyable as Safari in Mavericks. Less integration, and so on.
Mavericks is better.
HFS Plus and Core Storage? Don't get me started.
I could go on, but doing so would be somewhat pointless. Yosemite has thoroughly dulled my interest in Apple products. Honestly, happily, I'm now more interested in watching TV than in OS X 10.10 … more interested in watching normal TV than wondering about what might be announced tomorrow … hey ho and it's off to bed I go.
----
Design versus user experience image credits: https://twitter.com/IDLabTweets/status/507046554952163328 via http://chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/17568275#17568275
Mavericks is better
Did you ever make the same comments about Mavericks before the appearance of Yosemite became known? Can you provide a link?
If you mean that half of the icons in Mavericks look sweet: I'd say, more than half.
Off-topic from the operating system, I love maple syrup.
Closer to topic (Yosemite): which Mavericks icons appear to be for Windows 2000, and why? Can you be specific?
On topic: which Yosemite icons would be unsuitable for Windows 2000, and why? Can you be specific?
Hey ho and it's off to the breakfast table I go. Looking forward to reasonable responses from AirThis to all of those questions.
Did you ever make the same comments about Mavericks before the appearance of Yosemite became known? Can you provide a link?
If you mean that half of the icons in Mavericks look sweet: I'd say, more than half.
Off-topic from the operating system, I love maple syrup.
Closer to topic (Yosemite): which Mavericks icons appear to be for Windows 2000, and why? Can you be specific?
On topic: which Yosemite icons would be unsuitable for Windows 2000, and why? Can you be specific?
Hey ho and it's off to the breakfast table I go. Looking forward to reasonable responses from AirThis to all of those questions.
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Could say the exact same thing to you about your post. And the 'everybody' who has been dragged through OS X's evolution kicking and screaming.
Try reading my post again. Nowhere did I claim "everybody" was against the changes brought by Mac OS X 10.3 Panther or even used the term "everybody" to begin with. So please don't put words in my mouth. I merely said that there were people back in 2003 who complained just as hard about Mac OS X 10.3 Panther's revised Aqua (and other versions). Stating anno 2014 this is a first with OS X Yosemite like ZVH was doing is nonsense. It has happened before, with very similar intensity, under Steve Job's watch. That's what my post was about.Could say the exact same thing to you about your post. And the 'everybody' who has been dragged through OS X's evolution kicking and screaming.
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Mac OS X 10.0 was Cheetah
Mac OS X 10.1 was Puma
Most of the outrage at Cheetah was not about its looks but about its sluggish interface and usability. Very few apps ran on it, which is why Puma was a free upgrade.
What a coincidence...!
OS X 10.9 Mavericks was a free upgrade because Lion and Mountain Lion are sluggish and have lots of bugs...
OS X 10.10 Yosemite is going to be a free upgrade because Mavericks is sluggish and has lots of bugs...
OS X 10.11 Ferengi will be a free upgrade because Yosemite has terrible UI and has lots of bugs...
You're totally right! The original Mac OS X was called Cheetah. It was already late when I typed that post haha.
A lot of people also yearned back to Platinum, the Mac OS 9 interface, because they felt Aqua was to bright and distracing. That's why Apple started toning down the bright colors over the years. But yeah, Mac OS X 10.0 Cheetah was barely useable. Mac OS X 10.3 Panther was the first release IMO where things really started to come together. It wasn't until Mac OS X Tiger on Intel that the interface sluggishness really disappeared. In my experience at least.
You're totally right! The original Mac OS X was called Cheetah. It was already late when I typed that post haha.
A lot of people also yearned back to Platinum, the Mac OS 9 interface, because they felt Aqua was to bright and distracing. That's why Apple started toning down the bright colors over the years. But yeah, Mac OS X 10.0 Cheetah was barely useable. Mac OS X 10.3 Panther was the first release IMO where things really started to come together. It wasn't until Mac OS X Tiger on Intel that the interface sluggishness really disappeared. In my experience at least.
For the record, I was a beta tester for OS X Cheetah, and a user of System 7 through OS 9. The biggest complaint with OS X was not the UI, the UI was awesome, all that eye candy was great. The biggest complaint was functionality, a lot of things that we used every day on OS 9 didn't exist.
You're not the only one. Where did you see me saying the bright interface was the biggest complaint?
I was also a beta tester for OS X Cheetah, and a user of Mac OS 6 through 9.
Functionality was probably the biggest concern during the transition from Classic OS to OS X, but I don't think it was the biggest complaint. People knew that transitioning to a whole new system architecture was going to have a fair amount of growing pains; they may not have been thrilled about it, but most people understood.
As far as complaints go, there were a ton of people who absolutely hated the Aqua UI. Many people thought it was garish compared to Classic and that it made the Mac OS into something that looked like a child's toy. I think this belief was particularly touchy for some users since a similar sentiment had been applied to the original Macintosh by some of its detractors and it made some original Mac users a bit defensive.
At any rate, I definitely remember a lot of people swearing that they would never transition to OS X and would simply use their Classic machines until they were no longer supported/functional at which point they would switch to Windows or Linux.
I am not pointing specifically at you. Just for the record.
Regarding your post, I am surprised you didn't get good performance from early versions of OS X. I had a Titanium PowerBook G4, I thought it ran pretty well, kept that machine going for 6 years! Now that's a machine to get nostalgic about but, I digress, off topic.
Graham, I enjoy your posts, but I really think that its a bit over-dramatic to abandon an entire OS because one singular shipped app does not do what you want. The market is full of free browsers. Then again, you are not so far from programming yourself, it should be simple enough to make a patch for open source Safari (Webkit Nightly) to show the title bar.
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I bet Steve Jobs would have loved it, as I am more than sure that the visual paradigm shift was initiated in his time. And to your second question: try every major OS X release
I've never seen so many complaints before in my life. When Lion came out there were a lot of complaints, but nothing this rampant, and that was after the OS's release.
Too many people just don't like Yosemite. Way too many, IMHO.
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