You really don't need a brand-new Mac...

[B S Magnet]

I'm regularly rendering 4k and 8k videos for clients, composing music, running several VMs at once, and playing games on occasion, though I mostly do that on my PS5 and Switch. The GIFs were just to be silly. I actually do need more power than the M1 can provide. I also need dual monitors now and the M-series Airs just don't have that capability. It's treated me well, but it is definitely time to upgrade. Also the heat throttling on the Air due to having no fans is a not a fun bottleneck during heavy workloads.

Two things, and then I’m done:

1. So you bought a basement M1 when it was current, thinking you could do all of that (well, just the 4/8K stuff; the rest can be done on older gear just fine, including running multiple vmware instances) without running upon bottlenecks. I mean, there were other, perfectly capable options on sale back when the MacBook Air M1 was offered.
2. Since you’re new here, I want to invite you to have a look around at the forum we’re in. This is the Early Intel Macs forum. We discuss Macs to have been on sale between early 2006 and as late as 2013.
   
   What we do here is upgrade, maintain, and share the novel uses we find for Macs which Apple have designated as “obsolete” (because Apple designated them as obsolete, not because they’re actually “obsolete” in any practical, applied sense). This is not the forum to come and kvetch, memes or no, about how your beta-level*, M1 MacBook Air is just “too slow” for rendering 8K video (this is what the Mac Studio is for, but again, not on topic to this forum’s remit). You got what you paid for, and there’s a MacBook Air forum for that conversation.

With those out of the way, we’d like to welcome you here when you have a question or interest in working with an Early Intel Mac to do stuff just fine in 2023, in whichever currently-supported build of macOS, courtesy of OCLP, you’re inclined to use.


* Every first release of a major new platform is, functionally, a beta for which the customer pays to play, come what may.

 

[ArkSingularity]

1. Since you’re new here, I want to invite you to have a look around at the forum we’re in. This is the Early Intel Macs forum. We discuss Macs to have been on sale between early 2006 and as late as 2013.

It's an easy mistake to make if you browse around by the "new posts" feed. It doesn't show the forum/board title prominently, I've been guilty of missing it more than once.

 

[Bananasaurus]

Two things, and then I’m done:

1. So you bought a basement M1 when it was current, thinking you could do all of that (well, just the 4/8K stuff; the rest can be done on older gear just fine, including running multiple vmware instances) without running upon bottlenecks. I mean, there were other, perfectly capable options on sale back when the MacBook Air M1 was offered.
2. Since you’re new here, I want to invite you to have a look around at the forum we’re in. This is the Early Intel Macs forum. We discuss Macs to have been on sale between early 2006 and as late as 2013.
   
   What we do here is upgrade, maintain, and share the novel uses we find for Macs which Apple have designated as “obsolete” (because Apple designated them as obsolete, not because they’re actually “obsolete” in any practical, applied sense). This is not the forum to come and kvetch, memes or no, about how your beta-level*, M1 MacBook Air is just “too slow” for rendering 8K video (this is what the Mac Studio is for, but again, not on topic to this forum’s remit). You got what you paid for, and there’s a MacBook Air forum for that conversation.

With those out of the way, we’d like to welcome you here when you have a question or interest in working with an Early Intel Mac to do stuff just fine in 2023, in whichever currently-supported build of macOS, courtesy of OCLP, you’re inclined to use.


* Every first release of a major new platform is, functionally, a beta for which the customer pays to play, come what may.

I usually upgrade every 5-7 years and I've run modified versions of macOS on old, unsupported Macs (I still have a 2011 as well). I've upgraded the RAM and SSDs for myself and family members and at one point I built a Hackintosh, which was fun, but required too much maintenance trying to fudge things to get them to work. The battery life was the biggest reason I upgraded to the M1 Air (I came from a 2017 refurbished MacBook Pro) as my work started to become more mobile. It was surprisingly fast. Much faster than the Intel Mac I had upgraded from. It isn't the basement M1 Air. It has 16 GB of RAM and a 1 TB SSD and it was more than capable for my workload at the time. 16 GB used to be okay, but that's becoming a bottleneck as well. But it's almost been 3 years since I purchased the M1 Air and my workload has gotten significantly more demanding since then. I upgrade to serve whatever current purpose I'm dealing with is. I've stretched out the life of older Macs beyond the supported OS. I've owned the first Bondi Blue iMac and that weird swiveling head dome iMac. I ran the very first beta of OS X on an old PowerBook G4. I remember having to completely max out the RAM on the Bondi Blue to get OS X to even run on it.

 

[engbren]

Of course, it’s possible to use an older Mac for many things. However, there are inherent risks with using older systems. Everything from increased risk of hardware failure, poor battery life due to worn battery, screen hinges breaking etc.
Then as you move up the stack, to software, unless you can keep your OS up to date, or have other mechanisms to secure your data, older machines start to present an information security risk and require technical work to keep them secure.

Even my 2019 MacBook Pro with quad core i5 and 16GB RAM which can run the latest macOS and receives security updates is slow and spins up loud fans for many basic DD tasks. Accessing a website, joining a Teams/Zoom/Google Meet call etc. Yes it can do all of those things and more but the experience of using it for those DD tasks is increasingly frustrating.
I handed the 2019 MBP onto a family member when I purchased a MBA with m1. I purchased late in the m1 cycle maybe six months before m2 came out so have been using it for about 2 years. The m1 is my new benchmark - I’ve yet to seriously tax the m1. That includes occasionally running parallels virtual machines, light duty photo and video editing.

 

[avz]

Even here there is a line and where that line is depends on the type of person and what they use their computer(s) for. For years I was in the PowerPC Macs section because I got everything I needed done with PowerPC Macs. But for me, I had to draw the line when production of TenFourFox ended.

Of all the apps I use every day, the browser is the one app I spend most of my time in. When Kaiser called it quits I realized that at a certain point there was no way I was going to be able to get online stuff done. I had Intel Macs already, but in May 2020 I bought a MacPro for my daily driver. It's a 2009 MP 4,1 that I upgraded to a 5,1. I plan on staying on it for quite some time.

But eventually I will have to draw the line again and I can already see it coming. This Mac is running Mojave. I can upgrade OS certainly, but my work Mac uses Ventura and I absolutely hate it. So, at present, my only consideration is when I will be 'forced' on to Catalina. That will give some reprieve but only so much. I have a 2008 MBP running Catalina and I'm not really fond of the OS.

Sooner or later though I will have to move, because I eventually tire of trying to make workarounds work. I've been in this spot before.

Ironically Safari 14.1.2 works better for me than Safari in Catalina and Big Sur. So this is actually another very valid reason for me to continue circle the wagons in Mojave.

The people who can get by fine with a 2010-2012 MBP for all their computing needs are not the people who are going to want to research forums for how to install patches and hacks to get their computer to work. They are not going to want to deal with “obsolete” hardware that requires them to buy used parts and fix anything themselves when it breaks, because Apple won’t touch the thing. They don’t want to deal with soldering the motherboard when their dedicated GPU goes on the fritz. They don’t even want to do something as simple as buy a screwdriver set to clean the dust out of the fans or replace the battery.

They want a simple computer that just works. Works with their iPhone, their software, etc all without any tinkering.

I can relate to a degree. I need a car to get me to work. I don’t want some old car that needs tinkering and constant repairs and that may or may not start all the tine. I want a car that will just work and get me where I need to go.

You have a very valid point that explains why I refuse to use Linux.

Mac OS(Mojave in my case) on the other hand is still "just works" on my Late 2008 MacBook and the only parts that I ever had to replace is a speaker(technically subwoofer) and a battery. Steve Jobs spoke the truth when he said during the presentation of the Late 2008 MacBook that it has a lot of advanced technologies.

 

[Sami13496]

Hmm you suggest an average consumers should slightly upgrade it and run a patcher/Linux on it. I think average consumer don’t know how to do this but more importantly don’t even care, and don’t want to dive that deep in tech stuff. Average consumer just wants a Mac that is ready to go out of the box that actually runs macOS not some “weird” (for them) Linux.

I do agree though that average consumer with light normal use should get MBA M1/M2 whatever (new or refurb).

 

[marcinsf]

There's also the cost of repair. I have a Dell laptop from somewhere around 2005 or so. I call it the Laptop of Theseus, since I'm not too sure what's still original besides the case. Almost everything has been replaced, mostly by me once warranty ran out. I've been able to do this with standard home tools.

Now my circa 2012 Macbook, I went out and bought the special screwdriver sets to take it apart, and replaced as much as I could over the years, but I had to stop when the repairs needed exceeded my comfort zone and/or just started costing too much. It was just cheaper and easier to just buy a new one.

It's like with a car or home appliances. If you can't fix it yourself, at what point to all the maintenance costs stop being worth it. My clothes washer has been fixed 3 times, at a total cost of around $1,000 including parts and labor. RIght now, the spin cycle on standard wash doesn't work. It does on different wash cycles I don't use. So, after every load, we have to move it to a different spin and wait the 5 minutes to finish. When I talked to the repair guy, he said it would be around $300 for the part, plus $125 max for labor, though he expects it will be $75, since he's familiar with the machine, but wants to hedge his bets. Anyway, point is, we decided it wasn't worth the money, and he suggested that at this point, when the next thing goes wrong with it or the dryer (which he's fixed twice), that I'd be better off buying new.

Basically, Macs are great and last longer than PCs, on average. But, you can make a PC last longer because it's easier and cheaper to fix. The real question then, is when do the costs start to favor choosing the other option.

Obviously, I have other laptops, like the mentioned Dell, and I could live without the Mac. I bought the new one because I wanted it. 15", 16/1TB in Starlight for those who are wondering.

ever ask yourself 'why you wanted it'?

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

I'm not talking about professionals here or the people who need an upgrade for creative/business reasons, but why do the average consumers think that they always need some brand new M2 Powered Pro Max Macbook Pro for lightly surfing the web, writing emails, listening to music, light office work, and playing a few videos? You could get off with a 2012 MBP or even earlier for that, and slightly upgrade it and run a patcher/Linux on it if you wanted to. Or just download the older versions of the programs.

It would save them a lot of money. You don't need 16GB of RAM for that either if you download an optimized browser or programs. You don't need subscriptions to everything if you're a basic user, and it doesn't matter if you spill water on it. You can just replace it, or buy another one on the cheap. Or replace the part for a low price. You don't even need AppleCare for that.

I'm not telling people not to buy a new MacBook, but there are other options to consider before you make the big purchase. I am waiting a while and saving up for mine. I am thinking about the usage and the decisions, and I am going to hold off for a bit, until the price is right, and it calls for me to upgrade. It's annoying when people say a MBP 2011, or Macbook 2009/10 is obsolete because they think you can't put X software onto it, when you probably can. People just consume, and they don't think about what it is they are consuming.

/Rantover (Well, is it a rant, or is it more expressing opinions? Anyway, wanted to out that out there because everyone is always pushed to buy the latest and the greatest all of the time, even when they maybe don't need it at all).

thats what ive been saying , they are still just fine for most people! Most epople dont evn need an M1! I use a mis 2010 mbp as a daily and its great! The biggest thing fot thrse olf macs is installing an sd. Lonux is so loghtweight a well that that is htr bet OS FOR these.Most people retire old macs because of softare support, nad all they need to is use OCLP to install a new macos and it will rin fine! Most people dont upgrade becaus tjry have to,but nexause it is zhe new apple smell qhich wil go in a couple says, and because its a new thing..

Lmao excuse my typos...im writing from a tiny phone lol...

 

[xantufrog]

Most people dont upgrade becaus tjry have to,but nexause it is zhe new apple smell qhich wil go in a couple says, and because its a new thing..

Source? That's really presumptuous and condescending. See my above post - you honestly don't see speed, security, and feature improvements (historically, also things like weight, bulk, and battery duration as well) as a valid reason to upgrade to new technology if one has the means to afford it? People should only upgrade when things are literally unusable?

By all means, being frugal and not wasteful are good to aspire to; its also certainly valid to stay with an old piece of hardware because you are attached to it, enjoy the "hobby" element of keeping it going and relevant, or certainly if you in fact cannot afford a new machine. But I'm scratching my head at your hardline and somewhat condescending stance on people who upgrade before a machine has no other possible description than "ewaste".

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

Source? That's really presumptuous and condescending. See my above post - you honestly don't see speed, security, and feature improvements (historically, also things like weight, bulk, and battery duration as well) as a valid reason to upgrade to new technology if one has the means to afford it? People should only upgrade when things are literally unusable?

By all means, being frugal and not wasteful are good to aspire to; its also certainly valid to stay with an old piece of hardware because you are attached to it, enjoy the "hobby" element of keeping it going and relevant, or certainly if you in fact cannot afford a new machine. But I'm scratching my head at your hardline and somewhat condescending stance on people who upgrade before a machine has no other possible description than "ewaste".

Thats true but honestly i hate to see when people just upgrade every year to a newer machine when the old one was just fine for them...i see it a lot. It just adds to the landfill as if we dont have enough landfills already.

 

[xantufrog]

Thats true but honestly i hate to see when people just upgrade every year to a newer machine when the old one was just fine for them...i see it a lot. It just adds to the landfill as if we dont have enough landfills already.

I totally agree on that. And we ate definitely conditioned or pressured to always want the shiny new thing

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

I totally agree on that. And we ate definitely conditioned or pressured to always want the shiny new thing

Idk about you but i aint pressured here using a mid 2010 mpb as a daily and a 15 year old thinkpad just fine lol

 

[xantufrog]

Idk about you but i aint pressured here using a mid 2010 mpb as a daily and a 15 year old thinkpad just fine lol

I mean by advertisements and culture - obviously a sub forum dedicated to using discontinued macs is going to be welcoming to people who still want to use their old macs. I thought I was agreeing with you

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

I mean by advertisements and culture - obviously a sub forum dedicated to using discontinued macs is going to be welcoming to people who still want to use their old macs. I thought I was agreeing with you

Im not disagreeing lol im jist saying that im not affected by that stuff

 

[TechnoMonk]

I wonder if OP is still driving a ford pinto or Yugo. You don’t really need a car.

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

I wonder if OP is still driving a ford pinto or Yugo. You don’t really need a car.

You dont have to mock people who speak the thruth that you dont need the latest stuff, and that you're probably fine with older stuff. In terms of cars its a little different, but still you dont necessarily need the new stuff.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Of course, it’s possible to use an older Mac for many things. However, there are inherent risks with using older systems. Everything from increased risk of hardware failure, poor battery life due to worn battery, screen hinges breaking etc.
Then as you move up the stack, to software, unless you can keep your OS up to date, or have other mechanisms to secure your data, older machines start to present an information security risk and require technical work to keep them secure.

Even my 2019 MacBook Pro with quad core i5 and 16GB RAM which can run the latest macOS and receives security updates is slow and spins up loud fans for many basic DD tasks. Accessing a website, joining a Teams/Zoom/Google Meet call etc. Yes it can do all of those things and more but the experience of using it for those DD tasks is increasingly frustrating.
I handed the 2019 MBP onto a family member when I purchased a MBA with m1. I purchased late in the m1 cycle maybe six months before m2 came out so have been using it for about 2 years. The m1 is my new benchmark - I’ve yet to seriously tax the m1. That includes occasionally running parallels virtual machines, light duty photo and video editing.

Some of have more tolerance for Punishment. I still have MacBook from 2006/7. MBA from 2011. They are retired, I can do some basic stuff but not gonna waste my time with mundane stuff of tinkering with them.

 

[unrigestered]

who does not buy a new car every time a new one has been released?

 

[TechnoMonk]

You dont have to mock people who speak the thruth that you dont need the latest stuff, and that you're probably fine with older stuff. In terms of cars it’s a little different, but still you dont necessarily need the new stuff.

I am not mocking any one. You don’t need anything in life. Food, water and a cave should suffice. Remember this is about casual users of computers.

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

Some of have more tolerance for Punishment. I still have MacBook from 2006/7. MBA from 2011. They are retired, I can do some basic stuff but not gonna waste my time with mundane stuff of tinkering with them.

Ha ill gladly take 'em thank you very much

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

who does not buy a new car every time a new one has been released?

Me

 

[TechnoMonk]

Ha ill gladly take 'em thank you very much

I am not giving them out. I collect devices and have a nice collection.

 

[unrigestered]

@HawkTheHusky: PEASANT! 🤓

 

[HawkTheHusky1902]

I am not mocking any one. You don’t need anything in life. Food, water and a cave should suffice. Remember this is about casual users of computers.

Why do you have to overexxagerate everything lmao im talking about computers of course you need water and food

 

[TechnoMonk]

PEASANT! 🤓

Sums up the thread. Do as I say.