You're Apple. You just built a 40-core SoC for Mac Pro. Now what?

[dmccloud]

I find it humorous that Sunny5 used DirectX as proof that Macs suck at gaming, while ignoring that the only devices on the market even using DX are Windows computers and the Xbox consoles. You won't find DirectX outside Microsoft's products because it's a Windows-specific API, and the Xbox has been running a modified version of Windows since the Xbox 360 was launched.

I get that but a lot of mobile aren't that useful or trash and all mobile apps that I'm using on both iPhone and iPad aren't supported on macOS.

Odd, I have a whole set of iOS apps that are able to be run on my M1 Mac. Either you have very few apps on your iOS devices, very old apps that developers are no longer supporting, or some weird edge cases that reflect a very small percentage of the Mac userbase. The developers can go in and check a flag if they do not want their iOS app to be available on Mac OS, that has no bearing on whether the app could theoretically work on Apple Silicon-based Macs.

On the gaming side, a lot of my Steam library can be played on my M1 Mac with no issues, including multiple AAA titles. There are two main reasons many iOS apps are not being opened up to use on Mac OS: the lack of a touch-based interface on the Mac and the use of certain features specific to iOS devices (accelerometer, gyroscope, compass, aGPS location, etc.) which have no equivalents on Mac hardware.

On the Android emulation in Windows front, those apps run into the exact same problems that many iOS apps would run into when run on a Mac. Granted, a lot of laptops do have touchscreens (which helps on the interface front, but nowhere else in the user experience), but Windows still has to emulate ARM code on x86 hardware, which does not work on systems with hardware virtualization enabled.

Finally, an explanation of the differences between APIs and User Interface (UI) - the APIs are the underlying commands which the UI is running on top of. Developers don't need to optimize the APIs, since those are system-level calls and the M and A-series SOCs all use the same API framework. What does need to be optimized is the UI and any functions which rely on iOS-specific components. The rest of the code can remain entirely unchanged between iOS and MacOS. iOS has been built on the same Darwin core as Mac OS since day one, so there are nowhere near as many differences in the two operating systems as some people are claiming. There are legitimate reasons to keep certain apps either Mac-only or iOS-only, but that does absolutely nothing to discredit the overall notion of cross-platform compatibility.

 

[sunny5]

I find it humorous that Sunny5 used DirectX as proof that Macs suck at gaming, while ignoring that the only devices on the market even using DX are Windows computers and the Xbox consoles. You won't find DirectX outside Microsoft's products because it's a Windows-specific API, and the Xbox has been running a modified version of Windows since the Xbox 360 was launched.

And what's the market share between Windows and macOS? And where do developers develop their games? Clearly, you are the one who is not understanding the fact.

Odd, I have a whole set of iOS apps that are able to be run on my M1 Mac. Either you have very few apps on your iOS devices, very old apps that developers are no longer supporting, or some weird edge cases that reflect a very small percentage of the Mac userbase. The developers can go in and check a flag if they do not want their iOS app to be available on Mac OS, that has no bearing on whether the app could theoretically work on Apple Silicon-based Macs.

Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, snapchat, Citibank, tile, many games, and more. None of them supports on AS Mac and even they do, the optimization sucks.

On the gaming side, a lot of my Steam library can be played on my M1 Mac with no issues, including multiple AAA titles. There are two main reasons many iOS apps are not being opened up to use on Mac OS: the lack of a touch-based interface on the Mac and the use of certain features specific to iOS devices (accelerometer, gyroscope, compass, aGPS location, etc.) which have no equivalents on Mac hardware.

I can say most of them are running via Rosetta 2, not natively. Also, are there any new games supporting M1 from the beginning?

On the Android emulation in Windows front, those apps run into the exact same problems that many iOS apps would run into when run on a Mac. Granted, a lot of laptops do have touchscreens (which helps on the interface front, but nowhere else in the user experience), but Windows still has to emulate ARM code on x86 hardware, which does not work on systems with hardware virtualization enabled.

And yet, they have some major apps than what macOS has.

Finally, an explanation of the differences between APIs and User Interface (UI) - the APIs are the underlying commands which the UI is running on top of. Developers don't need to optimize the APIs, since those are system-level calls and the M and A-series SOCs all use the same API framework. What does need to be optimized is the UI and any functions which rely on iOS-specific components. The rest of the code can remain entirely unchanged between iOS and MacOS. iOS has been built on the same Darwin core as Mac OS since day one, so there are nowhere near as many differences in the two operating systems as some people are claiming. There are legitimate reasons to keep certain apps either Mac-only or iOS-only, but that does absolutely nothing to discredit the overall notion of cross-platform compatibility.

And yet, most major apps aren't supported. If it was easy, how come they aren't doing it?

 

[sunny5]

The overwhelming majority of macOS users are still on Intel machines. Intel machines can't run iOS/iPadOS apps. Can you see why modifying apps to run on the Mac might lower priority over other features or considerations? It hasn't been a year yet, and a few folks have been distracted by other events. Just because you can't get every iOS app on macOS doesn't mean the Mac is doomed.

And bringing mobile apps to Mac was one of the big feature they advertised and now, it's not important then? Ironic.

 

[robco74]

It was one of many features announced. It's entirely up to developers to decide to enable it. I suppose Apple could have given a big FU and just made apps available anyway, but they chose not to. Windows is enabling Android apps, but through Amazon. Not all Android developers make their apps available through Amazon's store. Of those that do, we don't know how many will support running them on Windows 11. If I can't get every app in the Amazon store on Windows, will that make the feature a dismal failure?

As it has been explained to you, there are a variety of reasons why a developer may not want their app to run on the Mac. Just because you can't get every app you might want on the Mac doesn't mean the feature is a failure, or that the Mac is doomed.

And yes, sometimes you get a swing and a miss. 3D touch never really caught on and is no longer available. It looks like the Touch Bar may go the same way.

 

[sunny5]

It was one of many features announced. It's entirely up to developers to decide to enable it. I suppose Apple could have given a big FU and just made apps available anyway, but they chose not to. Windows is enabling Android apps, but through Amazon. Not all Android developers make their apps available through Amazon's store. Of those that do, we don't know how many will support running them on Windows 11. If I can't get every app in the Amazon store on Windows, will that make the feature a dismal failure?

As it has been explained to you, there are a variety of reasons why a developer may not want their app to run on the Mac. Just because you can't get every app you might want on the Mac doesn't mean the feature is a failure, or that the Mac is doomed.

And yes, sometimes you get a swing and a miss. 3D touch never really caught on and is no longer available. It looks like the Touch Bar may go the same way.

So far, it is a failure. Their control emulator is already a trash. What am I suppose to say then? Yes, it's up to developers but they didn't enable it.

 

[robco74]

OK, so this one feature hasn't exactly taken off. What exactly is your point?

 

[avkills]

...Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, snapchat, Citibank...

Umm why would anyone want to run the mobile versions of those apps on a desktop computer? Honestly, when the feature was announced, I was like, ok, that is kinda cool, but since I do not have a M-powered computer and I am almost at the breaking point of even owning smart phones anymore; I just do not see the point. Both have strengths and weaknesses depending on what you are trying to do.

 

[JMacHack]

OK, so this one feature hasn't exactly taken off. What exactly is your point?

Finding straws to grasp.

 

[sunny5]

OK, so this one feature hasn't exactly taken off. What exactly is your point?

I don't know how Nvidia's CUDA issue had been transferred to mobile app but I was very clear that using a same API does not mean they are not 100% compatible each other. Some people think mobile apps will increase the market size of macOS but it never did.

Umm why would anyone want to run the mobile versions of those apps on a desktop computer? Honestly, when the feature was announced, I was like, ok, that is kinda cool, but since I do not have a M-powered computer and I am almost at the breaking point of even owning smart phones anymore; I just do not see the point. Both have strengths and weaknesses depending on what you are trying to do.

Why not? There are some mobile apps already supporting desktop and Instagram does not support all features on desktop version.

 

[robco74]

Nobody ever claimed any compatibility between Metal and CUDA. Metal does work across different Apple OSes and devices and different chipset vendors. CUDA only works with Nvidia. AMD has opened up their APIs, but Nvidia keeps things proprietary.

As for market share, the Mac is doing just fine. Sales are increasing YOY and so far M1 seems to be rather well received. If the Mac business is a failure, I'm sure many other companies would love to fail as well as Apple has.

 

[Jorbanead]

I told you, iOS developers aren't even interested in supporting macOS from Mac App Store and it's a fact. I don't care about the same API, it just doesn't work on different OS right away and therefore, it's useless. Also, who even wanna spend their time and money on their mobile apps to macOS? It's been more than 1 year since Apple Silicon transition announced with the transition kit and yet the amount of mobile apps on Mac store is so pathetically poor. They don't even allow side loading. Are there even useful iPad apps on Mac App Store that we can use? Even iPad suffer from lack of optimization from iOS apps so I don't find this as a special case or already expected. This is why what we were expecting is delusional.

Well first you haven’t told me anything because this is the first time I responded to you. Second, im not talking about iOS developers and games made for iOS. Im talking about developers in general and the entire Apple ecosystem in general. So say you create a game that’s similar to say a Nintendo switch game, you *could* allow it to be played on iPad, iPhone, and mac as well with little change in the UI depending on the game. Having Mac, iPad, and iPhone all as markets opens up a lot of revenue for your game. As long as you start the development with the idea that the game’s UI will scale, and the interface is both mouse and touch capable, it could work pretty well imo.

 

[dmccloud]

And what's the market share between Windows and macOS? And where do developers develop their games? Clearly, you are the one who is not understanding the fact.


Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, snapchat, Citibank, tile, many games, and more. None of them supports on AS Mac and even they do, the optimization sucks.


I can say most of them are running via Rosetta 2, not natively. Also, are there any new games supporting M1 from the beginning?


And yet, they have some major apps than what macOS has.


And yet, most major apps aren't supported. If it was easy, how come they aren't doing it?

1. Many developers develop cross-platform, which is why World of Warcraft dropped an M1-native version day and date of the M1 Macs hitting market.

2. Facebook won't allow the use of their apps on Mac OS because they want you to use the browser and be exposed to their garbage ads. Snapchat won't even run in a browser on a Windows machine, so using that as evidence for your claims is egregious at best, reckless at worst.

3. At present, games do not have to be recompiled for the M1 to run on the newer Macs, and many titles run just fine right off the presses. Here's some information regarding games known to run on the M1 Macs (dual links because I like to multi-source my arguments):

4/5. You seem to be fixated on this notion of running mobile apps on a desktop OS, but the vast majority of mobile apps are ill-suited for that, regardless of originating or destination OS. I don't need a lot of the apps I run on my phone to also be on my computer, because I can use a website for those services I would need to access from a computer (travel, banking, research, etc.). Many of the mobile apps on BOTH Android and iOS require features not present on any desktop OS, including aGPS, gyroscope, accelerometer, cameras (for AR apps), cellular radios, etc - and that's before even going into the interface issues that many mobile apps would have if you ran them on either Mac OS or Windows. That's not a problem specific to Apple, let alone Google or Microsoft, it's a consequence of different operating systems having completely different user paradigms and user interfaces.

 

[sunny5]

1. Many developers develop cross-platform, which is why World of Warcraft dropped an M1-native version day and date of the M1 Macs hitting market.

2. Facebook won't allow the use of their apps on Mac OS because they want you to use the browser and be exposed to their garbage ads. Snapchat won't even run in a browser on a Windows machine, so using that as evidence for your claims is egregious at best, reckless at worst.

3. At present, games do not have to be recompiled for the M1 to run on the newer Macs, and many titles run just fine right off the presses. Here's some information regarding games known to run on the M1 Macs (dual links because I like to multi-source my arguments):

4/5. You seem to be fixated on this notion of running mobile apps on a desktop OS, but the vast majority of mobile apps are ill-suited for that, regardless of originating or destination OS. I don't need a lot of the apps I run on my phone to also be on my computer, because I can use a website for those services I would need to access from a computer (travel, banking, research, etc.). Many of the mobile apps on BOTH Android and iOS require features not present on any desktop OS, including aGPS, gyroscope, accelerometer, cameras (for AR apps), cellular radios, etc - and that's before even going into the interface issues that many mobile apps would have if you ran them on either Mac OS or Windows. That's not a problem specific to Apple, let alone Google or Microsoft, it's a consequence of different operating systems having completely different user paradigms and user interfaces.

1. Yes, they are cross-platforms but mostly not for Mac. Most cross platforms are for PC and console. WoW is such an old game and that's the only one example so I wouldn't expect too much about it. Tell me, can you play CoD, battlefield, Apex legend, Assassin creed, destiny 2, and more on Mac?

2. Not able run snapchat doesn't prove anything and not even an evidence unlike what you are claiming.

3. And Rosetta 2 won't gonna last forever as they did before. Then what? The link that you mentioned didn't even mention whether it's a native or rosetta 2. If they don't support their games natively, they won't gonna work after a few years. This is why supporting AS natively is important.

4/5. Then what's the point of supporting mobile apps on macOS if the support is poor?

 

[senttoschool]

Apple could spend tens of billions of dollars to do this

What if Apple just starts with using their own SoCs for their own lineup of Apple Services such as iCloud, Apple TV, Appstore, Siri? Don't build the infrastructure for external customers first.

Given that Apple is likely spending $1b+ each year on server costs for their billions of devices worldwide, don't you think that it could be beneficial to move to their own silicon?

In addition, Apple could start by offering the "Apple Silicon Cloud" as an API directly to iOS, iPadOS, MacOS applications when they're ready to expand out.

This strategy would seem like the costs and risks could be drastically lowered.

 

[leman]

I don't know how Nvidia's CUDA issue had been transferred to mobile app but I was very clear that using a same API does not mean they are not 100% compatible each other. Some people think mobile apps will increase the market size of macOS but it never did.

You are collapsing multiple things together, twisting them until the original argument is not more recognizable anymore, all while focusing on the superfluous things.

Among all the people here, you are pretty much the only one who is hammering the idea of bringing mobile apps to the dekstop and claiming that it is somehow a measure of success. Most folks don't care, as the practical utility is low. There is a subset of mobile apps that make sense on desktop, and many of those apps have been enabled to work on the M1 Macs. Many apps don't and never will, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Regarding API compatibility discussion, this is again something yo don't seem to get because you are focusing too much on the naive idea of single mobile app running everywhere. That's now how high quality apps work. If you want to deliver great, native-looking apps, you will have to design the UI separately for each of the major Apple platforms. But those different looking apps will share 70% of their source code because they rely on the same API and same design under the good (which is why we were talking about Metal). As was pointed to you — on multiple occasions — there are a lot of high quality, popular apps that generate millions in sales revenue that have been built on this technology. And it has nothing to do with running mobile apps on the desktop.

 

[avkills]

1. Yes, they are cross-platforms but mostly not for Mac. Most cross platforms are for PC and console. WoW is such an old game and that's the only one example so I wouldn't expect too much about it. Tell me, can you play CoD, battlefield, Apex legend, Assassin creed, destiny 2, and more on Mac?

2. Not able run snapchat doesn't prove anything and not even an evidence unlike what you are claiming.

3. And Rosetta 2 won't gonna last forever as they did before. Then what? The link that you mentioned didn't even mention whether it's a native or rosetta 2. If they don't support their games natively, they won't gonna work after a few years. This is why supporting AS natively is important.

4/5. Then what's the point of supporting mobile apps on macOS if the support is poor?

Apparently you were not around when Apple transitioned from PowerPC to Intel -- that was painful. So far it seems the transition from Intel to Apple Silicon is going much better. Much of what makes OS X (and really a holder over from NeXT) is that the OS supports multiple binaries for different architectures within the same app. Although how they are doing Rosetta 2 is a much better implementation than Rosetta (PowerPC > Intel).

All the "AAA" game titles you just mentioned -- I hate to break it to you, but macOS isn't for gaming, never has been. Whether that changes over time due to Apple Silicon, well we just have to wait and see. Of course the good thing about Intel Macs was that you could install Windows via Bootcamp and boot into Windows for whatever games you wanted to play. That is dead on arrival with Apple Silicon; until Microsoft devotes more time to Windows on ARM, and even then it isn't going to work good for games since none of the games are compiled nor will be compiled for ARM. If consoles move to ARM CPUs then we all might have a chance at getting some AAA games native on macOS. You want games, buy or build a Windows rig.

Apple will include Rosetta 2 as long as they need to.

Mobile apps were never designed to run on a mouse/keyboard HID device; that is why they suck on macOS. And has been mentioned many times over, most of those apps can all be accessed via web browsers on desktops, so why would the developers waste resources on making their mobile apps work on the desktop when they do not need to, and most people do not care. You seem to be the golden unicorn getting all bent over this.

 

[sunny5]

Apparently you were not around when Apple transitioned from PowerPC to Intel -- that was painful. So far it seems the transition from Intel to Apple Silicon is going much better. Much of what makes OS X (and really a holder over from NeXT) is that the OS supports multiple binaries for different architectures within the same app. Although how they are doing Rosetta 2 is a much better implementation than Rosetta (PowerPC > Intel).

That transition has nothing to do with mobile app supporting on macOS. Your argument is out of topic.

All the "AAA" game titles you just mentioned -- I hate to break it to you, but macOS isn't for gaming, never has been.

And that's the most stupidest argument from you. Do you know that Mac was once a great platform for gaming several decades ago? Even PC users consider this "Mac isn't for gaming" is a stupid joke. Apple is not even trying cause they failed and loose competition with other platform. You just wanna find some excuses.

Mobile apps were never designed to run on a mouse/keyboard HID device; that is why they suck on macOS. And has been mentioned many times over, most of those apps can all be accessed via web browsers on desktops, so why would the developers waste resources on making their mobile apps work on the desktop when they do not need to, and most people do not care. You seem to be the golden unicorn getting all bent over this.

And yet, Apple added supports for using mobile apps on macOS which contradict your argument. How come most popular mobile games aren't even supported then? You see, I found your words to be ironic.

 

[dmccloud]

1. Yes, they are cross-platforms but mostly not for Mac. Most cross platforms are for PC and console. WoW is such an old game and that's the only one example so I wouldn't expect too much about it. Tell me, can you play CoD, battlefield, Apex legend, Assassin creed, destiny 2, and more on Mac?

2. Not able run snapchat doesn't prove anything and not even an evidence unlike what you are claiming.

3. And Rosetta 2 won't gonna last forever as they did before. Then what? The link that you mentioned didn't even mention whether it's a native or rosetta 2. If they don't support their games natively, they won't gonna work after a few years. This is why supporting AS natively is important.

4/5. Then what's the point of supporting mobile apps on macOS if the support is poor?

1. AAA titles I can run on my Mac right now: Baldur's Gate 3, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Civilization VI, Bioshock 1 & 2 (both remastered - Infinite is still 32-bit only for some dumb reason), Borderlands 2, Deus Ex, Hitman, Sleeping Dogs Definitive Edition, Tomb Raider, Tropico 6, Yooka-Laylee (also available on Windows and XBox One), Batman: Arkham City, Borderlands 2, Path of Exile, Psychonauts, Civilization V, KOTOR I and II, System Shock 2, XCOM 2. Those are just the AAA titles already in my Steam library that can be run on my M1 Mac. In total, there are 195 game in my Steam library right now that will run directly on the M1 Mac. If you factor in Steam Link, then virtually my entire Steam Library can be run on the Mac. Also from one of the links I provided in my prior post, the following games off your list will also run on the M1 Mac: Assassin's Creed (Brotherhood & Rogue), Battlefield 3, Battlefield Bad Company 2, Borderlands 3, COD4, COD Black Ops 3, Cyberpunk 2077 (also playable via Steam Link), Dark Souls 2 & 3, Destiny 2, Apex Legends, Dragon Age Origins Ultimate Edition (GoG), Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy XIV and expansions, GTA (IV, V, San Andreas, Vice City), Mass Effect (1 & 2), Metro series, Portal 1 & 2, SWTOR, Team Fortress 2, Skyrim Special Edition, The Evil Within (1 & 2), The Witcher (Enhanced Edition), Warcraft III Reforged, Warhammer: Dawn of War II, Witcher 2, and Witcher 3 (GOTY Edition). Hearthstone, Diablo III, the Sims 3 & 4, and the list goes on. So exactly where is this lack of games you keep harping on about?


2. You don't get it - Snapchat doesn't even run in a web browser - it is ONLY usable on a mobile OS - so your using that as an example of lack of Mac support is a nonstarter, especially since you can't even run it on a Windows machine. You seem to reject any evidence that disproves your preconceived notions while failing to provide anything beyone conjecture and hypothetical questions to support your own assertions. That's why it was so easy to directly point out examples of every game you claimed wouldn't run on the M1 Macs actually would run on the new architecture.

3. The original Rosetta had a five year run starting in 2006 (OSX 10.4.4 through OS X 10.6), and it wasn't until 2011 when Lion was released that Rosetta support was dropped. Assuming the same timeframe for Rosetta 2, support for it would not end until late 2025, which is more than enough time for developers to either port apps over to the M-series architecture or release new titles altogether with Apple Silicon support.

4/5. It's not unique to iOS/Mac OS, that's the part you seem to overlook. Have you used Bluestacks to run Android apps on a Windows PC? It works, but nowhere even close to the regularity you seem to be demanding. Additionally, we are still early in the Apple Silicon deployment (only 9 months since the M1 Macs first hit the market), and as more of the lineup is switched over to the M series of SOCs, developers will have to either develop for the platform or jump off the train. The key is that for those apps which are supported on both iOS and MacOS, it becomes as easy to synchronize things across both devices as it is with Apple's iWork suite.

Tl/DR version: Your arguments fail on their face, as your underlying contentions have been disproven. What "evidence" you did bring to the discussion was all opinion and conjecture rather than observable fact, and many of your arguments were easily disproven by facts. The remainder of your arguments are all speculative in nature and Apple's track record of similar transitions (68k to PPC and PPC to x86) indicates a future path that is notably different from what you have claimed time and time again. Multiple people have observed you moving the goalposts in this thread when your arguments have been disproven, and you try to cherry pick which arguments from others apply and which do not, when your own comments opened the door to said discussions.

 

[avkills]

Sunny5, You posted that Rosetta 2 will not last forever, which is true, but Apple will keep it as long as they need to, and why not, it isn't going to be hurting anything to have it lingering around.

The Mac was *never* a great platform for gaming; unless you count the original Bungie games, but you should know the history there. AAA games were almost never directly written for the Mac by the original developers. Macsoft, Codemasters and Aspyr used to port games to the Mac; and at that time, they never performed as well as the Windows versions. Things got better once Apple switched to Intel CPUs.

dmccloud just posted a crapload of games that are playable via Steam. Steam actually helped Mac Gaming a lot. Regardless I am standing by my statement that in the current and past state of macOS, it is not a gaming platform. I used to be one of those Mac guys always complaining about this or that game not being released for macOS. Then the switch to Intel happen, and my G5 tower became long in the tooth fast. My solution was that I built a Hackintosh which was dual boot of course to Windows or macOS; And at the time, my hack pretty much clobbered any Apple hardware. Apple at that time was not making any hardware I wanted until they released the 2019 Mac Pro. And well, now I have a dedicated Windows machine, which ironically due to the pandemic, I actually use for work more often than I would have normally.

Do not take me wrong, I really wish gaming on the Mac was better than it is; but it is what it is. And Apple is not helping the situation by excluding the use of Nvidia hardware past High Sierra.


** the current Windows rig I have now was not my Hackintosh; I upgraded my Windows machine because of work.

 

[iBug2]

Example: Pixelmator — they took their powerful image editing engine (developed for the Mac), designed a suitable new UI for it and published it as native iPhone and iPad apps. The UI code is different on each platform, the underlying code is the same. This also allows them to release new features in sync for all platforms without having to duplicate the work.

Affinity did the same thing with Photo. They already had their codebase in Metal so they ported the app quite easily to iPad. They modified their UI of course but the underlying codebase is basically the same so they can port features between Mac and iPad apps easily.

 

[BootLoxes]

That transition has nothing to do with mobile app supporting on macOS. Your argument is out of topic.


And that's the most stupidest argument from you. Do you know that Mac was once a great platform for gaming several decades ago? Even PC users consider this "Mac isn't for gaming" is a stupid joke. Apple is not even trying cause they failed and loose competition with other platform. You just wanna find some excuses.


And yet, Apple added supports for using mobile apps on macOS which contradict your argument. How come most popular mobile games aren't even supported then? You see, I found your words to be ironic.

Not really related to this specific post but I just wanted to let you know Mari is being discontinued on Macs.

Q100599: Mari Support for macOS

SUMMARY This article will explain the future of Mari Support on macOS. MORE INFORMATION After much consideration, Mari 4.7 will be the last version of Mari compatible with macOS. The Mari team w...

support.foundry.com

"This was a decision based on Apple’s move to deprecate OpenGL in favor of Apple Metal. While a great move for Apple users, spending the required time to convert Mari to Metal would impact its momentum and roadmap for all customers."

I am a substance painter kind of guy so I never messed with Mari but it is still sad to hear

 

[leman]

Not really related to this specific post but I just wanted to let you know Mari is being discontinued on Macs.

Q100599: Mari Support for macOS

SUMMARY This article will explain the future of Mari Support on macOS. MORE INFORMATION After much consideration, Mari 4.7 will be the last version of Mari compatible with macOS. The Mari team w...

support.foundry.com

"This was a decision based on Apple’s move to deprecate OpenGL in favor of Apple Metal. While a great move for Apple users, spending the required time to convert Mari to Metal would impact its momentum and roadmap for all customers."

I am a substance painter kind of guy so I never messed with Mari but it is still sad to hear

That is a very strange explanation. OpenGL still works great on macOS (in fact, it seems to be more stable on M1 machines because it’s implemented as a Metal wrapper with less driver bugs). Besides, if they are serious about their product they would want to move it to Vulkan anyway. OpenGL is done with, nobody should use that technology anymore.

 

[JMacHack]

Apple is not even trying cause they failed and loose competition with other platform.

Apple:
1. Makes a graphic and compute library (metal) that is optimized to run on their OS(es) be it AMD, or their own gpus. From phones, tablets, Apple tv, Apple Watch, and Macs of all sizes.

2. Makes the fastest and most efficient phone processor bar none. Then expands upon that and makes a chart topping low-power low-end cpu of their own design.

3. Creates and maintains all the tools necessary to make apps for these systems including an ide specific for it, while making their own programming language meant to be easy to pick up and understandable by children.

4. Gives forewarning about any libraries they will depreciate or no longer support.

Vidya companies:
1. Well, we can’t use x library invented in the Stone Age, so we’re gonna drop support.

You:
Apple is lazy!

 

[sunny5]

1. AAA titles I can run on my Mac right now: Baldur's Gate 3, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, Civilization VI, Bioshock 1 & 2 (both remastered - Infinite is still 32-bit only for some dumb reason), Borderlands 2, Deus Ex, Hitman, Sleeping Dogs Definitive Edition, Tomb Raider, Tropico 6, Yooka-Laylee (also available on Windows and XBox One), Batman: Arkham City, Borderlands 2, Path of Exile, Psychonauts, Civilization V, KOTOR I and II, System Shock 2, XCOM 2. Those are just the AAA titles already in my Steam library that can be run on my M1 Mac. In total, there are 195 game in my Steam library right now that will run directly on the M1 Mac. If you factor in Steam Link, then virtually my entire Steam Library can be run on the Mac. Also from one of the links I provided in my prior post, the following games off your list will also run on the M1 Mac: Assassin's Creed (Brotherhood & Rogue), Battlefield 3, Battlefield Bad Company 2, Borderlands 3, COD4, COD Black Ops 3, Cyberpunk 2077 (also playable via Steam Link), Dark Souls 2 & 3, Destiny 2, Apex Legends, Dragon Age Origins Ultimate Edition (GoG), Final Fantasy VII, Final Fantasy XIV and expansions, GTA (IV, V, San Andreas, Vice City), Mass Effect (1 & 2), Metro series, Portal 1 & 2, SWTOR, Team Fortress 2, Skyrim Special Edition, The Evil Within (1 & 2), The Witcher (Enhanced Edition), Warcraft III Reforged, Warhammer: Dawn of War II, Witcher 2, and Witcher 3 (GOTY Edition). Hearthstone, Diablo III, the Sims 3 & 4, and the list goes on. So exactly where is this lack of games you keep harping on about?

Most of them are old and yet you don't care about to tell me whether it supports natively or not. Clearly, you just wanna complain after all.

2. You don't get it - Snapchat doesn't even run in a web browser - it is ONLY usable on a mobile OS - so your using that as an example of lack of Mac support is a nonstarter, especially since you can't even run it on a Windows machine. You seem to reject any evidence that disproves your preconceived notions while failing to provide anything beyone conjecture and hypothetical questions to support your own assertions. That's why it was so easy to directly point out examples of every game you claimed wouldn't run on the M1 Macs actually would run on the new architecture.

So what? Windows 11 is bringing TikTok.

3. The original Rosetta had a five year run starting in 2006 (OSX 10.4.4 through OS X 10.6), and it wasn't until 2011 when Lion was released that Rosetta support was dropped. Assuming the same timeframe for Rosetta 2, support for it would not end until late 2025, which is more than enough time for developers to either port apps over to the M-series architecture or release new titles altogether with Apple Silicon support.

We don't know that.

Tl/DR version: Your arguments fail on their face, as your underlying contentions have been disproven. What "evidence" you did bring to the discussion was all opinion and conjecture rather than observable fact, and many of your arguments were easily disproven by facts. The remainder of your arguments are all speculative in nature and Apple's track record of similar transitions (68k to PPC and PPC to x86) indicates a future path that is notably different from what you have claimed time and time again. Multiple people have observed you moving the goalposts in this thread when your arguments have been disproven, and you try to cherry pick which arguments from others apply and which do not, when your own comments opened the door to said discussions.

Ironically, you keep fail to prove anything and therefore, I have no reasons to explain anything in detail.

 

[sunny5]

Apple:
1. Makes a graphic and compute library (metal) that is optimized to run on their OS(es) be it AMD, or their own gpus. From phones, tablets, Apple tv, Apple Watch, and Macs of all sizes.

2. Makes the fastest and most efficient phone processor bar none. Then expands upon that and makes a chart topping low-power low-end cpu of their own design.

3. Creates and maintains all the tools necessary to make apps for these systems including an ide specific for it, while making their own programming language meant to be easy to pick up and understandable by children.

4. Gives forewarning about any libraries they will depreciate or no longer support.

Vidya companies:
1. Well, we can’t use x library invented in the Stone Age, so we’re gonna drop support.

You:
Apple is lazy!

Doesn't mean Apple is doing way better than x86! Don't be delusional.