10.11 is...wow.

[Tubamajuba]

Great point. I first came to OS X last year from a windows 8 machine (surface pro 3) and was immediately impressed with Yosemites pollish and reliability. The integration with my iPhone, the easy setup and reliability of my Epson printer/scanner, and the ease of setup and integration with my base station extreme. I was sold on Apples ecosystem and integration of devices. Previously I had a windows 8.1 phone, surface pro 3, and an Xbox One. I was surprised that there was almost zero integration between the three besides Onedrive. I didn't want to feel like I "had" to have an apple machine but I feel that way now.

Exactly my point. My first OS X version was Mountain Lion, and it was excellent. Mavericks was even better, and I never experienced any of the problems that some people experienced with Yosemite. I may never understand what was so great about Snow Leopard, but I also don't feel like I'm missing anything. El Capitan is already the best version of OS X I've ever used, and that's on DP1.

And Microsoft services work just as well on Apple devices as they do on Microsoft devices. So it's understandable that you feel that way.

 

[vista980622]

I have the same system as you and had none of those issues except the messages sync bug which was an iMessage server issue unrelated to the OS. If the OS was such a huge failure there would be media reports. The media loves to report anything negative about apple.

I almost experienced every single one of those problems.

And I can duplicate slow Finder resizing/scrolling lag and PDF preview scrolling lags on ANY Mac running Yosemite. Some people are not sensitive with flow animation fps but it is definitely there.

But good thing is they're all gone with El Capitan.

 

[Eithanius]

I almost experienced every single one of those problems.

And I can duplicate slow Finder resizing/scrolling lag and PDF preview scrolling lags on ANY Mac running Yosemite. Some people are not sensitive with flow animation fps but it is definitely there.

But good thing is they're all gone with El Capitan.

But Finder is still slow on other basic stuff on El Capitan... things like the time it takes from copying a large file to the copy progress bar appears... Here's another one, hitting Cmd+N repeatedly and as fast as you can, and you'll get what I mean. Try the same on Snow Leopard, it beats the crap out of Mavericks, Yosemite, even El Cap...

 

[koyoot]

What is retina mode? Please explain.

I think you meant "why argue about completely meaningless things?" ??? Because the expression you wrote doesn't make sense.

Yep, I mean meaningless.

Retina Mode is when you have high resolution display and the system scales down everything to increase the sharpness of text, icons, everything on the screen.

 

[vista980622]

But Finder is still slow on other basic stuff on El Capitan... things like the time it takes from copying a large file to the copy progress bar appears... Here's another one, hitting Cmd+N repeatedly and as fast as you can, and you'll get what I mean. Try the same on Snow Leopard, it beats the crap out of Mavericks, Yosemite, even El Cap...

I agree. I'm actually a big fan of Snow Leopard. Finder in Snow Leopard does perform really well. Loading contents, thumbnails and basic UI interaction are all super fluid. Heck, Snow Leopard runs overall faster on an HDD than El Capitan does on a SSD [edit: overall runs, not including boot up speed]. If most 3rd party apps I use still support Snow Leopard, I would use it as my daily driver...

But I am not comparing El Capitan to Snow Leopard though... I'm comparing it to Yosemite. El Capitan is far, far better than Yosemite in terms of smoothness and responsiveness.

 

[Eithanius]

I agree. I'm actually a big fan of Snow Leopard. Finder in Snow Leopard does perform really well. Loading contents, thumbnails and basic UI interaction are all super fluid. Heck, Snow Leopard runs overall faster on an HDD than El Capitan does on a SSD. If most 3rd party apps I use still support Snow Leopard, I would use it as my daily driver...

But I am not comparing El Capitan to Snow Leopard though... I'm comparing it to Yosemite. El Capitan is far, far better than Yosemite in terms of smoothness and responsiveness.

Unfortunately there are still people who thinks and hope that El Cap could and should be another Snow Leopard when in fact it will never be anywhere near Snow Leopard in terms of performance as long as OS X get stuck on the yearly update cycle.

 

[zorinlynx]

Oh for gods sake you love the new notes app but it's not innovation. What is it with some of you. Notes is about notes not blowing your mind

Frankly I've always liked the Notes app, and how it uses IMAP so I can use my own server to store my notes. It's certainly better than bloated apps with crappy interfaces like Evernote.

 

[vista980622]

Unfortunately there are still people who thinks and hope that El Cap could and should be another Snow Leopard when in fact it will never be anywhere near Snow Leopard in terms of performance as long as OS X get stuck on the yearly update cycle.

I think "another Snow Leopard" in terms of being symbolic of improving responsiveness and stability in relation to its prior version of OS X, not being actually on par with Snow Leopard's performance.

And I think yearly update cycle is not the only reason modern OS X are slower than Snow Leopard. For example, many core apps are *rewritten* from the ground up for Snow Leopard because there's no 64-Bit carbon, and Finder seems to benefit most from the fresh start. Apple simply don't have the drive to scrap and start over, especially considering it may not be always beneficial (discoveryd, etc.)

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Frankly I've always liked the Notes app, and how it uses IMAP so I can use my own server to store my notes. It's certainly better than bloated apps with crappy interfaces like Evernote.

While I absolutely agree with you, I had to ditch Notes in favor of Evernote, since the formers iCloud synchronization was sooo bad. I always ended up with lost changes and duplicate entries.

 

[Tosic]

Anyone having trouble loading up Facebook on safari? have to use chrome !

 

[shenan1982]

Some people are not sensitive with flow animation fps but it is definitely there.

I think that's what the issue is here where different people report different issues, some not reporting slowness in operational performance. I think if someone isn't sensitive to not getting immediate response when they press a button, they don't see it as an issue. I have tried 10.11 and it doesn't solve the overall slowness that the OS performs at on my rMB.

I went into the store, and tried the rMBP 2015 version and NONE of the issues I've complained about exist on them. So obviously it's an issue related to the specs of the computer, not the OS.

 

[Michael Goff]

Makes for a nice desktop when you can see news, emails, stocks, weather, and other things all on your desktop. So funny how many people trash the idea, yet those same people are the ones showing off their jailbroken home screens with widgets all over it, LOL

How much time do you spend staring at your desktop?

 

[vista980622]

I think that's what the issue is here where different people report different issues, some not reporting slowness in operational performance. I think if someone isn't sensitive to not getting immediate response when they press a button, they don't see it as an issue. I have tried 10.11 and it doesn't solve the overall slowness that the OS performs at on my rMB.

I went into the store, and tried the rMBP 2015 version and NONE of the issues I've complained about exist on them. So obviously it's an issue related to the specs of the computer, not the OS.

Yes, people experience different problems, but Finder dropping frame occurs on every single 13 and 15-inch rMBP (2015) I've tried in IMAP Apple Store (Shanghai, China), IFC Apple Store (Shanghai, China) and Festival Walk Apple Store (Hong Kong). System language are Chinese (Simp), Chinese (Simp), English (HK).

The same issue occurs on all my friends' Mac, my own Mac, as well as other Mac in authorized Apple Retailers.

They can all be proved by filming in slow motion. Frame-rate dropping is definitely visible.

The frame drop is gone in El Capitan.

 

[shenan1982]

How much time do you spend staring at your desktop?

Oh I'm not saying it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it's a smart, very smart feature. Combining the dashboard\launcher all into a home screen. For example, I'm on a dual-screen 5k iMac\Thunderbolt display right now. With my windows open currently (couple browsers, email, iTunes, messages) I have about 20% of my screen showing through to the Wallpaper. if I had Windows 10, I'd have my applications open on the primary screen, and the only thing on the second screen would be the windows dashboard, as it'd have my emails, chat messages, iTunes player, news, stock, and weather. That would be a dream IMO.

Not saying Apple needs to force that, but at least give the option. Why should I have to of into dashboard to see my widgets? Why can't I drop them anywhere on the home screen like Windows, or Android OS? Or Chrome OS? It's the same thing people complain about with iOS... Apple forces their way or

Yes, people experience different problems, but Finder dropping frame occurs on every single 13 and 15-inch rMBP (2015) I've tried in IMAP Apple Store (Shanghai, China), IFC Apple Store (Shanghai, China) and Festival Walk Apple Store (Hong Kong). System language are Chinese (Simp), Chinese (Simp), English (HK).

The same issue occurs on all my friends' Mac, my own Mac, as well as other Mac in authorized Apple Retailers.

They can all be proved by filming in slow motion. Frame-rate dropping is definitely visible.

The frame drop is gone in El Capitan.

Funny that's one issue that I haven't noticed\hasn't bothered me. LOL, and as you can see I'm uber-pcky.

 

[vista980622]

Oh I'm not saying it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it's a smart, very smart feature. Combining the dashboard\launcher all into a home screen. For example, I'm on a dual-screen 5k iMac\Thunderbolt display right now. With my windows open currently (couple browsers, email, iTunes, messages) I have about 20% of my screen showing through to the Wallpaper. if I had Windows 10, I'd have my applications open on the primary screen, and the only thing on the second screen would be the windows dashboard, as it'd have my emails, chat messages, iTunes player, news, stock, and weather. That would be a dream IMO.

Not saying Apple needs to force that, but at least give the option. Why should I have to of into dashboard to see my widgets? Why can't I drop them anywhere on the home screen like Windows, or Android OS? Or Chrome OS? It's the same thing people complain about with iOS... Apple forces their way or


Funny that's one issue that I haven't noticed\hasn't bothered me. LOL, and as you can see I'm uber-pcky.

Dashboard is silently being deprecated, so it's very unlikely Apple will bring any improvement to Dashboard. Although there used to be a hack that enables Dashboard widgets to stay on screen all the time. It may still work (if "Show Dashboard as Space" is turned off?) http://mac.elated.com/2008/07/27/how-to-get-dashboard-widgets-on-your-desktop/

Well, people are picky on different things, I guess.

 

[jozeppy26]

I agree. I'm actually a big fan of Snow Leopard. Finder in Snow Leopard does perform really well. Loading contents, thumbnails and basic UI interaction are all super fluid. Heck, Snow Leopard runs overall faster on an HDD than El Capitan does on a SSD. If most 3rd party apps I use still support Snow Leopard, I would use it as my daily driver...

But I am not comparing El Capitan to Snow Leopard though... I'm comparing it to Yosemite. El Capitan is far, far better than Yosemite in terms of smoothness and responsiveness.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. I mean... with Yosemite on my rMBP, my systems boots up in like 20 seconds. When I was on Snow Leopard with a 7200rpm HDD, it took about 1 min 30 seconds.

 

[TheColtr]

I'd say it absolutely has stagnated in my opinion. Your opinion is that it hasn't. I guess your opinion is more right than others' opinions. It's bizarre that you keep going with the "if you don't like it, go somewhere else" in regards to OS X. It's people like you that accept stagnation and complacency to where Apple is able to get away with it.

What about continuity? You're saying Apple hasn't innovated in forever, what about that? Can any other platform do continuity? Windows just got multiple home screens, which the Mac has had forever, And just because something is under the hood doesn't mean it's no innovation, it's the reason windows laptops die in four hours on battery and Macs get to 9 or 10 hours of battery.

 

[Eithanius]

That's a bit of an exaggeration. I mean... with Yosemite on my rMBP, my systems boots up in like 20 seconds. When I was on Snow Leopard with a 7200rpm HDD, it took about 1 min 30 seconds.

Dude... You need a bit of reality check... My 2010 MBP with an SSD interface slower than yours is able to boot Snow Leopard in 13 secs. That shows how bloated Yosemite is despite running on your supposedly faster rMBP...

 

[shenan1982]

What about continuity? You're saying Apple hasn't innovated in forever, what about that? Can any other platform do continuity? Windows just got multiple home screens, which the Mac has had forever, And just because something is under the hood doesn't mean it's no innovation, it's the reason windows laptops die in four hours on battery and Macs get to 9 or 10 hours of battery.

You're comparing a $1000-2500 Mac laptop to a generalization of a $300-500 Windows laptop. When I had a Sony Vaio way back in 2005 I got 10+ hours then.

 

[vista980622]

That's a bit of an exaggeration. I mean... with Yosemite on my rMBP, my systems boots up in like 20 seconds. When I was on Snow Leopard with a 7200rpm HDD, it took about 1 min 30 seconds.

I didn't mean boot speed. I meant first-party app loading speed and overall responsiveness...

 

[vista980622]

You're comparing a $1000-2500 Mac laptop to a generalization of a $300-500 Windows laptop. When I had a Sony Vaio way back in 2005 I got 10+ hours then.

That's really impressive in 2005.

 

[shenan1982]

That's really impressive in 2005.

Yeah I want to say the under-spec'd Vaio was about $3200. 2-3 times the comparable specs from other brands of normal size. Like the rMB you pay a premium for ultra portability.

 

[TechGod]

I think "another Snow Leopard" in terms of being symbolic of improving responsiveness and stability in relation to its prior version of OS X, not being actually on par with Snow Leopard's performance.

And I think yearly update cycle is not the only reason modern OS X are slower than Snow Leopard. For example, many core apps are *rewritten* from the ground up for Snow Leopard because there's no 64-Bit carbon, and Finder seems to benefit most from the fresh start. Apple simply don't have the drive to scrap and start over, especially considering it may not be always beneficial (discoveryd, etc.)

But Finder is still slow on other basic stuff on El Capitan... things like the time it takes from copying a large file to the copy progress bar appears... Here's another one, hitting Cmd+N repeatedly and as fast as you can, and you'll get what I mean. Try the same on Snow Leopard, it beats the crap out of Mavericks, Yosemite, even El Cap...

I agree. I'm actually a big fan of Snow Leopard. Finder in Snow Leopard does perform really well. Loading contents, thumbnails and basic UI interaction are all super fluid. Heck, Snow Leopard runs overall faster on an HDD than El Capitan does on a SSD [edit: overall runs, not including boot up speed]. If most 3rd party apps I use still support Snow Leopard, I would use it as my daily driver...

But I am not comparing El Capitan to Snow Leopard though... I'm comparing it to Yosemite. El Capitan is far, far better than Yosemite in terms of smoothness and responsiveness.

Unfortunately there are still people who thinks and hope that El Cap could and should be another Snow Leopard when in fact it will never be anywhere near Snow Leopard in terms of performance as long as OS X get stuck on the yearly update cycle.

I totally agree with you guys, Snow Leopard was THE standard. I had it on my early 2011 MBP before the disaster which was Lion.

However I genuinely believe that El Cap, for a DP1 is very close to SL and with further betas I only expect further advancement.

 

[Eithanius]

However I genuinely believe that El Cap, for a DP1 is very close to SL and with further betas I only expect further advancement.

Unfortunately I have to disagree on this for the following...

1. Finder has been slow since Mavericks, and there's no indication Apple wanna fix that...
2. There's a nasty window auto-resizing bug on QuickLook since Mavericks which Apple still fail to solve...
3. The multiple text input cursor on Dashboard's overlay mode since Mountain Lion which Apple still refuse to fix...
4. Video playback stuttering for a minute or so on Mavericks and Yosemite. I see somewhat improvement on El Cap, but that doesn't fix the problem.
5. Safari has been a resource hog since Mavericks that when loading heavy-content webpages can cause VLC playback to drop frames. I can use Firefox as a temporary solution but that defeats the purpose.

As you can see, these are not El Cap-introduced bugs... These are leftover bugs from previous OS X that Apple either fail to fix or refused to acknowledge. So there's no way El Cap can be as close as SL.

 

[TechGod]

Unfortunately I have to disagree on this for the following...

1. Finder has been slow since Mavericks, and there's no indication Apple wanna fix that...
2. There's a nasty window auto-resizing bug on QuickLook since Mavericks which Apple still fail to solve...
3. The multiple text input cursor on Dashboard's overlay mode since Mountain Lion which Apple still refuse to fix...
4. Video playback stuttering for a minute or so on Mavericks and Yosemite. I see somewhat improvement on El Cap, but that doesn't fix the problem.
5. Safari has been a resource hog since Mavericks that when loading heavy-content webpages can cause VLC playback to drop frames. I can use Firefox as a temporary solution but that defeats the purpose.

As you can see, these are not El Cap-introduced bugs... These are leftover bugs from previous OS X that Apple either fail to fix or refused to acknowledge. So there's no way El Cap can be as close as SL.

Huh. That was fixed for me with El Cap. Are you running El Cap on an SSD or HDD?