Mojave needs SSE4.2 only for AMD GCN drivers, if you stick to a Kepler GPU, no need.
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MP 1,1-5,1 10.15 won't support MP5,1 anymore, support starts with MP6,1
- Thread starter tsialex
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The Mac Pro 5,1 can be upgraded to be several times more capable now than it was when new. Its age is just an arbitrary number for the most part.
Age is not just a number for complex electronic devices - it correlates rather strongly with failure rates.
I would hesitate to base even part of my income on 10 year old computers - especially since the only repair for many failures is to get a used 10 year old part from the web.
Why can't you recognise that your needs/desires/whatever are unique to you and do not reflect the needs of others? Why constantly bashing other people needs/desires/whatever? People has been telling this to you for some time and you seem to not understand or you fully understand and just want to keep trolling.
Yeah, sure all the constant posts talking Mac Pro owners and prospectors to recycle/trash it are very reasonable.
I have a Macintosh SE that is 30 years old and still functioning fine, and plenty of functional Macs in the 10-20 year range. Failure rates depend more on the quality of the parts and engineering than on the age of the device, and with the exception of some defective models (eg. 2011s for GPU failure or Butterfly keyboards), Macs will typically last for decades if well taken care of.
Computers follow the bathtub curve. Most Mac Pros that have lived until now will probably continue working for many years to come.
Exactly my point. The bathtub curve clearly points to increasing failure rates with age.
Your optimistic view is OK if we're on the left side of the "constant failure rate" section. My more pessimistic view is OK if we're towards the right side.
The fact that a particular Apple has been running for a decade doesn't mean that it won't fail tomorrow.
Yeah agreed nothing guarantees that mac pros won't fail tomorrow. But 10 years is a very little amount of time in terms of electronic wear. Every computer I've owned either died in a short period of time (less than 5 years) after being bought or still work to this day. The PCs that failed quickly had well documented design issues. Realistically speaking I wouldn't be surprised if 5,1 Mac Pros could last another 10 years.
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I welcome Aiden here. He provides a needed corrective to Apple worship. And , most importantly, he backs it up with facts, intelligence and wisdom (and not a little wit). I think he makes Macheads feel the way my wife makes me feel when she questions some of my impulse purchases - I am irritated at first but come to appreciate the wisdom of her view later.
This has nothing to do with Apple worship, Mac Pro is a tool.
I'm not going to trash a tool while it's doing the work I need from it just because a newer one was released.
Repeatedly telling people that you should trash a Mac Pro is just childish.
But the Mac Pro, and Apple products generally, are not just tools. They have aesthetic appeal as beautiful objects and a high level of integration with an OS and ecosystem that emphasizes ease of use. This is highly prized (worshipped?) by Apple users and rightly so. I think Aiden doesn't place such a high priority on these qualities but rather focuses on the utility and cost/benefit of the tool. Let us welcome both perspectives and make our choices according to what suits us.
Totally agree... the release of the new Mac Pro did not in any way lessen the usefulness nor the value I get from my “obsolete” Mac Pro 5.1!
Regarding probability of failure, yes it could happen any day just like any other product, however, my recent MBPs had way higher failure rates than this old Mac Pro!
Plus, whenever it happens we can still find spare parts, and listen to this, we (users) can easily replace those parts, to get it up and running in no time (I cant say the same for my 2017 MBP which, after several failures, Apple replaced it with a 2018 model - after 5 weeks of downtime!!!)
As for Catalina, yes it’s cool and all, but if the apps I’m using don’t require it (unlikely for another few years), I’m perfectly happy with Mojave.
I don’t see the rush to dump the old Macs and upgrade unless you need to have the newest tech (for whatever reason) and can afford it...
Regarding probability of failure, yes it could happen any day just like any other product, however, my recent MBPs had way higher failure rates than this old Mac Pro!
Plus, whenever it happens we can still find spare parts, and listen to this, we (users) can easily replace those parts, to get it up and running in no time (I cant say the same for my 2017 MBP which, after several failures, Apple replaced it with a 2018 model - after 5 weeks of downtime!!!)
As for Catalina, yes it’s cool and all, but if the apps I’m using don’t require it (unlikely for another few years), I’m perfectly happy with Mojave.
I don’t see the rush to dump the old Macs and upgrade unless you need to have the newest tech (for whatever reason) and can afford it...
Well my 4,1 MacPro has not been reliable: Two logic board replacements (one paid for by Apple). Yes it is still useful to me for what I do but if I wanted to run, say, 100 tracks in Logic it would be obsolete. One more failure in my MP and it will be going to the recycler.
Let's not turn this thread into "stop using your Mac pro thread" I am pretty sure by now everybody in this forum knows Aiden's sentiment towards the cMP. There is no need to repeat it over and over in every thread. Unless you work for Apple and try to upsell the new mac
Of course anything could still happen, but...
My hunch is that we will be able to unofficially run the Catalina GMs on our vintage graters. I don't think Apple is really interested in being punitive to its cMP stalwarts (which, implementing an AVX-requirement during the beta cycle would most definitely be).
As I said before Catalina/MP7,1 was even announced I believe Apple was on track to allow Catalina on the 5,1. Their track record with macOS going back 6+ releases now is that they only drop compatibility every other year. It's a revolution->evolution cycle. And Catalina is definitely an evolution from Mojave. This has been borne out by the fact that the MacPro5,1 is the only model dropped for Catalina.
I'm not sure when Apple first got word of the new MDS vulnerabilities (early this year?), nor when Intel made its decision to leave the ≤ Westmere CPUs unpatched, but I think Apple would say their hands were forced by that situation. By granting another year of OS support they would be extending the amount of time vulnerable cMPs were officially supported and basically giving their approval for customers to keep using them.
Also, consider how "difficult" it is to flash firmware on the cMP. We in the enthusiast community tend to forget that a sizeable number of cMPs currently in use haven't even received one firmware update simply because installing one is a manual process (and a convoluted one at that). Never mind that the "fix" of disabling HT appreciably diminishes performance for many tasks, are we even 100% sure at this stage that disabling HT fully mitigates the entire array of vulnerabilities recently disclosed? I remember tsialex saying something about AES-NI being a separate factor. Maybe that ended up not being exploitable on its own (I barely understand the technical aspects of these flaws), but I do see where Apple is coming from here. Not everyone using a MacPro5,1 knows how to protect themselves from these flaws.
That said, I really don't see Apple forcing everyone off the platform--especially with some of the tough press they've gotten about the cost of the 7,1. Just like with the 4,1>5,1 cross-flash, they'll most likely put their usual blocks into place, knowing that will be enough to keep away casual users, while continuing to tolerate power users taking matters into their own hands (with the tacit understanding that support from Apple is nill).
My hunch is that we will be able to unofficially run the Catalina GMs on our vintage graters. I don't think Apple is really interested in being punitive to its cMP stalwarts (which, implementing an AVX-requirement during the beta cycle would most definitely be).
As I said before Catalina/MP7,1 was even announced I believe Apple was on track to allow Catalina on the 5,1. Their track record with macOS going back 6+ releases now is that they only drop compatibility every other year. It's a revolution->evolution cycle. And Catalina is definitely an evolution from Mojave. This has been borne out by the fact that the MacPro5,1 is the only model dropped for Catalina.
I'm not sure when Apple first got word of the new MDS vulnerabilities (early this year?), nor when Intel made its decision to leave the ≤ Westmere CPUs unpatched, but I think Apple would say their hands were forced by that situation. By granting another year of OS support they would be extending the amount of time vulnerable cMPs were officially supported and basically giving their approval for customers to keep using them.
Also, consider how "difficult" it is to flash firmware on the cMP. We in the enthusiast community tend to forget that a sizeable number of cMPs currently in use haven't even received one firmware update simply because installing one is a manual process (and a convoluted one at that). Never mind that the "fix" of disabling HT appreciably diminishes performance for many tasks, are we even 100% sure at this stage that disabling HT fully mitigates the entire array of vulnerabilities recently disclosed? I remember tsialex saying something about AES-NI being a separate factor. Maybe that ended up not being exploitable on its own (I barely understand the technical aspects of these flaws), but I do see where Apple is coming from here. Not everyone using a MacPro5,1 knows how to protect themselves from these flaws.
That said, I really don't see Apple forcing everyone off the platform--especially with some of the tough press they've gotten about the cost of the 7,1. Just like with the 4,1>5,1 cross-flash, they'll most likely put their usual blocks into place, knowing that will be enough to keep away casual users, while continuing to tolerate power users taking matters into their own hands (with the tacit understanding that support from Apple is nill).
Sort of on-topic.....
Just planning ahead, could a 5.1 cmp with 10.13 access/control a 2018 mini via screen sharing with a newer OS on the mini.
I am thinking about adding a mini as a ‘render node’ but headless.
I could still do the grunt on the 5.1 and throw frames to the mini to render.
Just planning ahead, could a 5.1 cmp with 10.13 access/control a 2018 mini via screen sharing with a newer OS on the mini.
I am thinking about adding a mini as a ‘render node’ but headless.
I could still do the grunt on the 5.1 and throw frames to the mini to render.
Apple still supports the last Remote Desktop Client version down to Yosemite, so I bet that you will use Screen Sharing for a long time between MP5,1 and newer Macs.Thanks alex....
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT206178
I hadn't realized that Catalina would not support the 5,1 until a few days after the keynote. (Flashback to me purchasing a 2006 Mac Pro 1,1 about a year before Mountain Lion was announced )
Strangely enough I am at peace with it, as long as the next updates of Final Cut Pro X and Photoshop-Lightroom will support High Sierra/Mojave - above for a little while longer. (My Edimax AC1200 Wi-Fi adapter works great in my 5,1 but I seriously doubt there will be another update from them to support Catalina for example.)
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm personally getting exhausted by the yearly major Mac OS updates.
By the time the new version of the OS is updated and purring like a kitten----it is time to start the cycle again of "Will it run? What apps will get broken? Will an update arrive soon?" with the next OS.
In the meantime I'm daydreaming of a 6-core i7 Mac mini with eGPU. Or refurb MacBook Pro with eGPU for the future.
)Strangely enough I am at peace with it, as long as the next updates of Final Cut Pro X and Photoshop-Lightroom will support High Sierra/Mojave - above for a little while longer. (My Edimax AC1200 Wi-Fi adapter works great in my 5,1 but I seriously doubt there will be another update from them to support Catalina for example.)
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm personally getting exhausted by the yearly major Mac OS updates.
By the time the new version of the OS is updated and purring like a kitten----it is time to start the cycle again of "Will it run? What apps will get broken? Will an update arrive soon?" with the next OS.
In the meantime I'm daydreaming of a 6-core i7 Mac mini with eGPU. Or refurb MacBook Pro with eGPU for the future.
No, I'm not getting exhausted. I've been exhausted. It's just stupid. There's never a chance to "catch one's breath", so to speak...everything is continually a moving target. As you point out, it makes stuff obsolete too quickly, and when a software company only supports the last, say, three systems, they're basically dropping support for a system that may have been current just over a 2 years ago! Nuts! Then there's the mad rush for Apple programmers to stay on this schedule and make sure new features get shoved in, regardless of how well-polished things are. I just don't understand why a company w/ at least a few smart people like Apple wouldn't scratch their chins and say, "Yeah, I think 2-year cycle is a reasonable one for an ENTIRE OS."
It is called "planned obsolescence". There are various forms.