16" MacBook Pro ghosting / smearing...

[Hallonskalle]

Hi guys,
I just got my MBP 16" just a couple weeks ago (end of feb)(my upgrade from the early 2015 RMBP 13"). Immediately I can tell that text is a bit smeary when I scroll. The panel otherwise looks fine: no dead pixels etc...but the ghosting seems a bit off. I tried doing some of the "tests" people have used here. Is this normal to current lot of MBPs? or is mine particularly bad? From the color caibration properties from "Color LCD" profile, it seems my batch is A044. Manufacturer is 610, manufacture date is D9935D80.

This is what I am able to make out:

Here is a couple of gifs at different sizes/qualities that more represents what I am seeing.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49637242153_2f6f34a10b_o.gif

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49637766816_6fff08bda1_o.gif

thanks

V

If it bothers you I think you should return it. Everytime you use the computer you will get annoyed. Report to Apple so they hear about it.
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Got my third replacement today. The very first unit I received was perfect however the screen itself stopped working after 3 weeks. The 2nd one had horrible ghosting/smearing and Apple sent out another replacement (the third one which I just received) - Apple allowed me to keep the previous unit for a few days for testing + transferring data which means I could test the screens side by side.

The third unit: Identical to the first one, ghosting is not an issue; attached in an image for your reference.

What sucks is that the third unit came with a ding next to he headphone jack (not really a ding; more like something went wrong during the chamfering process).. Apple is willing to replace this one too however I'm afraid I won't get the right screen again.

Left: Old unit (2nd)
Right: New unit (3rd)

View attachment 898198

Looks sharp and good! Can you check which panel you have?

 

[simonmet]

I can’t see any significant difference in the screens above. Perhaps it’s wishful thinking, but there’s no solid evidence that any 16” screen’s response time is better than any other. Certainly not enough to notice a difference. They’re all very slow, unfortunately.

Before you try to suggest that those two images show a difference, be aware that the only way you could compare them is if the position of the UFO is in sync across both panels. Any two photos can show quite different results. Trust me, I’ve tried.

I’m feeling a little buyer’s remorse, but on the other hand I have to accept that it’s still a far better laptop overall than many people have, and I should consider myself lucky.

You both have me stumped. How is any one of those UFO test results different from the other two?

Agreed, there is no difference.

 

[arzbhatia]

You both have me stumped. How is any one of those UFO test results different from the other two?

I agree; it's hard to show the difference using a photograph however I did notice a big difference during normal usage. For example: Both reddit (dark mode) and macrumors forums are good indicators of whether or not your screen suffers from this issue.

I also noticed I have significantly lesser (or none at all) eye strain ever since I got the third (latest) unit. I'm happy with it but considering another replacement as the chamfering ding (physical deformity) is messing with me.

 

[vraev]

You both have me stumped. How is any one of those UFO test results different from the other two?

Maybe I am not understanding it right? I was looking at the number of "trailing ghosts in all three rows of the UFO images". If I look at the pic from Arzbhatia... if you look at the UFO ghosts, in the bottom most row, you can see a max of 2 or 3 of those UFO cockpits? If you see my image, you can see 3 or 4? Again, I understand the issue is also with the camera you would be using to take the pic.. I do not know the shutter speed of my pixel4XL.

 

[arzbhatia]

Looks sharp and good! Can you check which panel you have?

It's the SJA2 on the latest (better) one; SJA3 on the other one.

 

[Hallonskalle]

It's the SJA2 on the latest (better) one; SJA3 on the other one.

Ok i see, I don't know if it hss something to do about it but mine was SJA3 and had severe smearing
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Maybe I am not understanding it right? I was looking at the number of "trailing ghosts in all three rows of the UFO images". If I look at the pic from Arzbhatia... if you look at the UFO ghosts, in the bottom most row, you can see a max of 2 or 3 of those UFO cockpits? If you see my image, you can see 3 or 4? Again, I understand the issue is also with the camera you would be using to take the pic.. I do not know the shutter speed of my pixel4XL.

Yeah best way to tell is to record video white text on black background and see if the text leaves white trails while you move it, you don't have to move it super quick either to see it.

 

[simonmet]

Went on the phone with Apple support and they told me to do a Time Maschine and try and reinstall OS to see if it continues

This makes me so angry because it’s such a bulls**t response from Apple for something that is clearly a hardware issue.

PLEASE be aware that these are stalling tactics that Apple tells everyone no matter what the problem or how unlikely it is to be third party or even first party software-related. They want to stall you beyond the 2 week return window. You could tell them that you’ve literally just opened the box and not installed any software and they’ll still tell you to jump through the hoop of reinstalling the OS.

There is literally no way anything other than Apple hardware or (supplied) software could be causing the issues you’ve encountered. I have them too. The blue tinting is mostlily an AMD driver issue as it diminishes when using Intel (integrated) graphics (Logic must be triggering the AMD graphics), but the ghosting/smearing is a panel weakness or flaw, depending on your perspective; and nothing can be done about it, not even getting a replacement. For the record, I’ve reported the tinting to Apple support but haven’t had a reply.

I’ve said it before but let me say it again: don’t ever base a decision on whether to return an Apple product within the return window on whether Apple will identify or fix anything in software. You have to base the decision on whether you are satisfied with the product as it is received and during the return window.

Also, for suspected hardware faults, ie if you want to try a replacement unit. DON’T accept a replacement from Apple without processing it as a refund unless you think you still have enough time to test the unit fully and still make a return, as simple replacements don’t reset the return window. It needs to be processed as a return and bought again to do this.
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It's the SJA2 on the latest (better) one; SJA3 on the other one.

Well for a start, that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Why would a newer build have an older/lower part number?

Secondly, I’ve not seen any very credible/scientific tests comparing displays where one is claimed to be noticeably better than the other. Our brain can do strange things when they want to see things. I could’ve sworn the display unit in my local Apple store was noticeably worse than mine, but when I got home and tried similar tests, I wasn’t so sure.

A better test would be to record video on an iPhone that supports very high frame rates in Slo-mo like 240 FPS and then try and synchronise the position of the UFO on the videos.

 

[Hallonskalle]

This makes me so angry because it’s such a bulls**t response from Apple for something that is clearly a hardware issue.

PLEASE be aware that these are stalling tactics that Apple tells everyone no matter what the problem or how unlikely it is to be third party or even first party software-related. They want to stall you beyond the 2 week return window. You could tell them that you’ve literally just opened the box and not installed any software and they’ll still tell you to jump through the hoop of reinstalling the OS.

There is literally no way anything other than Apple hardware or (supplied) software could be causing the issues you’ve encountered. I have them too. The blue tinting is mostlily an AMD driver issue as it diminishes when using Intel (integrated) graphics (Logic must be triggering the AMD graphics), but the ghosting/smearing is a panel weakness or flaw, depending on your perspective; and nothing can be done about it, not even getting a replacement. For the record, I’ve reported the tinting to Apple support but haven’t had a reply.

I’ve said it before but let me say it again: don’t ever base a decision on whether to return an Apple product within the return window on whether Apple will identify or fix anything in software. You have to base the decision on whether you are satisfied with the product as it is received and during the return window.

Also, for suspected hardware faults, ie if you want to try a replacement unit. DON’T accept a replacement from Apple without processing it as a refund unless you think you still have enough time to test the unit fully and still make a return, as simple replacements don’t reset the return window. It needs to be processed as a return and bought again to do this.
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Well for a start, that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. Why would a newer build have an older/lower part number?

Secondly, I’ve not seen any very credible/scientific tests comparing displays where one is claimed to be noticeably better than the other. Our brain can do strange things when they want to see things. I could’ve sworn the display unit in my local Apple store was noticeably worse than mine, but when I got home and tried similar tests then I wasn’t so sure.

A better test would be to record video on an iPhone that supports very high frame rates in Slo-mo like 240 FPS and then try and synchronise the position of the UFO on the videos.

Totally agree with you. I had 30 days return window on mine but returned it to the store on day 12. (Big electronic store not Apple.) I have a technician investigating it but will se what they say about it this week. There is a thread about this on discussions.apple.com with the issue and if I remember correctly over 100 people have checked in "mine too". So we are defo not "over sensitive" to this.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250934758?page=1

 

[simonmet]

Unfortunately, the technician won’t be able to find you a magically better panel, even if he replaces it; or the whole computer. There is something about it that is causing the ghosting. Some say a temporal dithering algorithm to increase apparent bit-depth, but we can probably never truly know.

I reluctantly accepted the computer because, for most other intents and purposes, it’s quite good and I didn’t want to buy one of the butterfly laptops. Whether I keep it longer-term remains to be seen. I can see myself offloading it before the year is up. That wasn’t my intention when I bought it, otherwise I would’ve bought a lower spec.

 

[ctjack]

According to the notebookcheck.com reviews, LCD on MBP 16 does have slow response time at 35ms for black and white change, and gray scale - 53ms. For example, mbp 13 2013 does have 26ms and 33ms respectively.
So there is no accidents, because everything is predictable. You can't have LCD with DCI p3 coverage also with gaming response time. So in the market it is one or another. Game rig like alienware or color production like macbook. Everything could be in the same display tho, but it will cost a lot more than nowadays price of MBPs.
Also test with UFO is not good, unless you do it with studio light and fixed shuttter speed on DSLR camera. Otherwise your phones here are shooting at different light conditions and using different shutter speeds. Faster shutter speed - maybe u would see 3 UFOs in a row, slow speed - 4 UFOs. So that is pretty inaccurate comparison of user screens.
Currently dragging my MBP 13 late 2012 the same test with dragging window and i can see trail, but not that bad. Still this trailing is badly affecting focusing ability of my eye when i am scrolling forum threads with black ink on white background. So nothing is perfect, or otherwise we have to look at other laptop producers.

 

[Donnation]

It's the SJA2 on the latest (better) one; SJA3 on the other one.

There is absolutely zero truth behind what the SJA2 numbers mean in reference to panels. This has been debunked over and over again on here. All of the panels are the same.

 

[ascender]

Re troubleshooting of these things, the first line technicians just follow a scripted set of troubleshooting steps and as frustrating as they are, there's no way to bypass them. Its very, very frustrating when you know its not a software issue, but those guys don't know that, so that's why you'll always get asked to reset smc, reinstall macOS etc before you get on to the advanced troubleshooting.

 

[arzbhatia]

There is absolutely zero truth behind what the SJA2 numbers mean in reference to panels. This has been debunked over and over again on here. All of the panels are the same.

I'm well aware Someone asked me so I answered. The numbers probably represent batch numbers/identifiers. There are no hardware differences.

 

[thadoggfather]

is this unique to 16" or on 13"/15" of the last few years too?

 

[Donnation]

I'm well aware Someone asked me so I answered. The numbers probably represent batch numbers/identifiers. There are no hardware differences.

Oh my bad. I misread your post.

 

[vraev]

According to the notebookcheck.com reviews, LCD on MBP 16 does have slow response time at 35ms for black and white change, and gray scale - 53ms. For example, mbp 13 2013 does have 26ms and 33ms respectively.
So there is no accidents, because everything is predictable. You can't have LCD with DCI p3 coverage also with gaming response time. So in the market it is one or another. Game rig like alienware or color production like macbook. Everything could be in the same display tho, but it will cost a lot more than nowadays price of MBPs.
Also test with UFO is not good, unless you do it with studio light and fixed shuttter speed on DSLR camera. Otherwise your phones here are shooting at different light conditions and using different shutter speeds. Faster shutter speed - maybe u would see 3 UFOs in a row, slow speed - 4 UFOs. So that is pretty inaccurate comparison of user screens.
Currently dragging my MBP 13 late 2012 the same test with dragging window and i can see trail, but not that bad. Still this trailing is badly affecting focusing ability of my eye when i am scrolling forum threads with black ink on white background. So nothing is perfect, or otherwise we have to look at other laptop producers.

I agree totally. I think the positives of the panel are substantial and themselves are high enough compared to the image quality I have had in the past on other 15-17" windows PCs. Furthermore, again, typical workflows do not involve moving a window around and seeing motion trails of icon elements on the screen. The text scrolling is the only thing I that makes me a bit unsettled. I have two days left before the 14 day period since I got this macbook. I am going to go visit the store and compare mine side by side with some of the machines on display and see if it is comparable. If it is comparable, I'm going to keep it. I am happy with the machine otherwise.

 

[Hallonskalle]

I agree totally. I think the positives of the panel are substantial and themselves are high enough compared to the image quality I have had in the past on other 15-17" windows PCs. Furthermore, again, typical workflows do not involve moving a window around and seeing motion trails of icon elements on the screen. The text scrolling is the only thing I that makes me a bit unsettled. I have two days left before the 14 day period since I got this macbook. I am going to go visit the store and compare mine side by side with some of the machines on display and see if it is comparable. If it is comparable, I'm going to keep it. I am happy with the machine otherwise.

Let us know when you have compared, would be helpful thanks.

 

[Sanpete]

Maybe I am not understanding it right? I was looking at the number of "trailing ghosts in all three rows of the UFO images". If I look at the pic from Arzbhatia... if you look at the UFO ghosts, in the bottom most row, you can see a max of 2 or 3 of those UFO cockpits? If you see my image, you can see 3 or 4? Again, I understand the issue is also with the camera you would be using to take the pic.. I do not know the shutter speed of my pixel4XL.

I can see a small difference looking closer.

Shutter speed does matter, as you say. Higher is better, but you need a real camera to control that. I suspect yours is shot at a lower shutter speed than the other, so you pick up more trailing.

 

[robvas]

Taking a picture of the 'blur' is the dumbest test.

 

[vraev]

I can see a small difference looking closer.

Shutter speed does matter, as you say. Higher is better, but you need a real camera to control that. I suspect yours is shot at a lower shutter speed than the other, so you pick up more trailing.

Exactly. I do have a DSLR that I can try to get pictures with, but again, it is hard to compare with somebody else unless they use the same shutter speed/same'ish camera/lens combo. So yea..the blur test is hard to compare unless u use the same equipment for testing multiple macs.

Let us know when you have compared, would be helpful thanks.

I went down today to Mapleview Apple store and saw that they had 3 x 16" MBP in store. Every single one shows the "blurring/trailing icons" when you move the settings window. It even showed up on the MBP 13" in store but it was definitely lower. Again...I agree, the moving icons around is not a use-case scenario. But, there is an unsettling feeling when scrolling text up and down.
ANyways, I decided that I will just keep my computer. For what its worth, it is the best I could get compared to others on the market (Macs)...and it doesnt seem other MBP 16s are much different. Tomorrow is my day 14, the store employee offered to do a return and re-order, but again, I don't know if it is worth it. I don't want to deal with the dance of return/replace only to end up with a worse panel/other issues.

PS: I ran the console command yesterday after installing X-CODE and it is SJA3. Again, unless codes refer to multiple manufacturers, I don't think it makes much of a difference.

 

[Hallonskalle]

Exactly. I do have a DSLR that I can try to get pictures with, but again, it is hard to compare with somebody else unless they use the same shutter speed/same'ish camera/lens combo. So yea..the blur test is hard to compare unless u use the same equipment for testing multiple macs.



I went down today to Mapleview Apple store and saw that they had 3 x 16" MBP in store. Every single one shows the "blurring/trailing icons" when you move the settings window. It even showed up on the MBP 13" in store but it was definitely lower. Again...I agree, the moving icons around is not a use-case scenario. But, there is an unsettling feeling when scrolling text up and down.
ANyways, I decided that I will just keep my computer. For what its worth, it is the best I could get compared to others on the market (Macs)...and it doesnt seem other MBP 16s are much different. Tomorrow is my day 14, the store employee offered to do a return and re-order, but again, I don't know if it is worth it. I don't want to deal with the dance of return/replace only to end up with a worse panel/other issues.

PS: I ran the console command yesterday after installing X-CODE and it is SJA3. Again, unless codes refer to multiple manufacturers, I don't think it makes much of a difference.

Ok I see! Thanks for testing. I agree with you the moving windows is not a real use case but when just scrolling a webpage show smearing is so weird feeling to the eye. I have a support case about this and are awaiting answers, even tho I returned the mac I will share the supports opinion here and see what Apple actually says about it. I think I will try another one but I will wait a bit just in case there are "bad batches."

 

[kmahmood]

I'm just so glad that I didn't let this thread put me off from purchasing the MBP 16, just received it yesterday and as someone who works in IT and spends most of my time in front of screens - I don't see anything there that is too concerning, yes a slight blur effect on scrolling text but otherwise the display itself is great and certainly watching Netflix or videos , the colours and overall quality of the screen is impressive.

 

[vraev]

I'm just so glad that I didn't let this thread put me off from purchasing the MBP 16, just received it yesterday and as someone who works in IT and spends most of my time in front of screens - I don't see anything there that is too concerning, yes a slight blur effect on scrolling text but otherwise the display itself is great and certainly watching Netflix or videos , the colours and overall quality of the screen is impressive.

I was there on Day 14 of when I could return it (Apple store Genius Bar) and decided that I will end up keeping it. After I saw other 16" MBPs, there is no difference among them that I can perceive. I think it is just the panel spec that apple choose for these macbooks. Now that I am past the concern, I am happy with my MBP and might just get Applecare to have the peace of mind for the next 3y.

 

[pascaladjaero]

Thinking about switching to the new XPS 13 or wait for the new XPS 15..

Wait for the 15 if you want a larger screen and faster CPUs as usual

 

[Hallonskalle]

So interesting thing, just installed Win10 with boot camp and the ghosting/smearing is much much less while doing stuff on windows. I didn't even think about it first. Then I did some testing with white text on black background scrolling, moving **** around etc. And I have to say it is really NOT the same amount of trailing with windows. How is this possible? ?