Yeah if you insist on using Android, obviously you can't use Apple's best-in-class PWM solution. I'm all in on the Apple ecosystem for everything so it's an easy choice for me.
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1Password migrants thread
- Thread starter MacBH928
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Yeah if you insist on using Android, obviously you can't use Apple's best-in-class PWM solution. I'm all in on the Apple ecosystem for everything so it's an easy choice for me.
iCloud Passwords to proper password manager is like Finder's Preview to Adobe Photoshop.
not only locked out but canceled by the company. If you follow YouTube and Twitter, many people are getting banned.
If anything I learned from this thread, is that its best to use whatever makes you happy. There is no 1 size fits all.
No I really think they did.
I never heard any one say "I really hate paying for license, I rather have yet another monthly bill and if I do not make the payment I get locked out of the service".
We all know companies are turning to subscription because its more profitable. Its very easy to calculate. 1password estimated users are 15 million.
15M users * $100(licenses) = 1.5 billion (not enough to maintain a password manager app)
15M users * $3/month*12 months*5 years= 2.7 Billion . Thats increase of 80% in revenue ($1.2 billion more)
lets not beat around the bush, its capitalism greed.
(5 years its the estimated time for license purchasers to make their next upgrade)
Of course you do, because you consider them just as evil as The HSBC Money Laundering Scandal as per your post so obviously you'll tend to think every decision they make is to screw the consumer over ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You're missing something because AgileBits is no whare near making over a billion dollars a year. It think you're purposely posting misleading information to help justify your position they're one of the most evil companies
Password Revenue and Growth Statistics (2024)
150 millions dollars is a lot but its only a tenth of what you're purporting. Then consider the overhead of having over 800 employees, quite a lot of that revenue is used towards their compensation and other overhead items, like office space, never mind paying for the infrastructure needed for the cloud.
Other sites report that they have between 150 to 250 employees, but the point remains that they're not making a billion dollars year - at least that's what I've found on the google.
If you have evidence to back up your supposition, please post it
I of course believe that corporate greed to reach maximum profit is evil and abusive to the customer, but you have no problem with that. You probably will say grocery stores who sell a bottle of ketchup for $18 in Alaska (due to weak competition) is not wrong. Your choice if you like such society.
I didn't say they make over a billion dollar per year, I said they make $2.7 billion of the course of 5 years (imo , the time estimated for an upgrade by a license purchaser )
I will use the same evidence you provided.
we know that 1password has no free tier, and the minimum is $2.99 a month
so ,
15 million users * $2.99/month * 12 months = $538, 200, 000 (half a billion and 38 million, and 200 thousand) per year.
Your lack of understanding is astounding. How much does it cost to ship Ketchup to alaska? There is no easy or cheap way to ship products to alaska, and products that are not produced locally will be extremely expensive.
Btw, products in Hawaii are just as expensive for the same reason, the distance from mainland US is such that its very expensive to live there.
Edit Most products in the continental US are shipped by rail, its not that easy, quick or cheap for Alaska
Your post is laughable in that you lack the details needed to make an assessment.
Do I believe 1Password's press release or some stranger on the internet who has shown himself to be biased against 1Password, and has zero knowledge of the 1Password business and inner workings, all in a bid to try make them look greedy and evil?
- Do you know how many business contracts that 1Password has? In case you're unfamiliar, a site license will provide the entire business, access to the software for one annual price - On a per user basis that's almost always less then what consumers have to pay.
- Does 1Password provide government and education discounts?
- How many active users are still on the perpetual license?
Your math breaks down simply because you're ignorant of Agilebits business. We can make guesses as you did, but if they contradict what 1Password press release - who's wrong them or you? My money is on you.
The customer base that I found on google has no granularity, how many of them are using them on a business license. Sony of America is reported to be one of the companies that contract with 1Password, googling "How many employees does Sony of America have" brings back a result of 33,000. You can see how easily business contracts can skew the usage numbers so much that using simple math to derive revenue is incorrect.
How many of them are on the perpetual license, how many of them are on a free trial? Another example where you can't just multiple user base by monthly subscription.
Bottom line, do I trust your numbers where you fail to have all of the details and has an axe to grind, or do I rely on 1Password press release? My money is on what 1Password reports
From 1Password themselves:
The link in the 1Password Press Release
Yahoo Finance
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Slightly off topic, but your avatar looks really cool
Wait, 1st you compare 1Password to a company that got caught with money laundering, now to a ketchup in an area with no competition? You realize 1Password has A LOT of competition?
Edit:
A grocery store in Juno, Alaska. Let me know when you see the prices for ketchup.
And no, I don’t watch the video, I went off of “a bottle of ketchup for $16”
It has been discussed millions of times here.
Not cross platform
Can’t share vaults
Hard to search for a login
If you get locked out of your Apple ID for any reason, you are screwed
And tons of other reasons.
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I used it to prove corporates can be evil and greedy. I didn't say 1password going for rental model is on the criminal level of money laundering.
yes, and I am not waiting for a time when there is none. I will not encourage software rental behaviour because I do not look forward to a future where I have to rent my router firmware. The more rent-a-software model fails the better it is for the consumer. Pixelmator and Affinity made a name for themselves because they sell license as an alternative to photoshop.
If you feel that software rental is best model for the consumer, then I urge you to continue to support it and rent all your software. We can agree to disagree.
Without going into further debate on the ketchup price thing I checked it, its not $18 in Hawaii. I will also let you know that I can buy a $5 ketchup bottle from USA Amazon.com and have it individually air shipped to my house half way across the world for about $10 making it $15 total.
I will give you that if 1password considered their past license purchasers who they announced will no longer continually develop the app for and the "free trials" as part of their "user base" , no I did not put that into consideration. I took their 15 million users claim as "15 million active customers" , and that was my basis of my calculation.
As for businesses, 1password own website gives the price for over "10 employee business" at $8/user/month . At which "number of employees" does that subscription price get discounted to be below $3 , I do not know.
@MacBH928, is there any chance you don't like capitalism at all? There's probably no way to arrive at an objective measure which decides when the level of profit motivation against other driving business concerns is considered greed. Profit motivation is probably the major driver for almost every for-profit business.
I transitioned this year from Dashlane to 1Password and I am loving it, though I will peruse some of the Apple only alternatives OP posted here, thanks nevertheless
You are probably right, there is no objective measure that decides the level of profit hence the balancing act is the customer response and behaviour. That is part of the capitalism process. Thats is why I urge myself and others to always support the "underdog" business to keep competition alive.
This is true of many corporate systems. Corporations seem very attracted to locking you in to their system.
By example Google, Apple and Microsoft are currently attempting to change the 'eco system' to Passkeys. Passkeys look good given a cursory glance but its being used as a lock in vehicle by the big 3. Google try to get you to use their password manager, windows want you to use Hello, Apple want you to use keychain, device passkeys are not transferable, you need special backup devices, you can loose all your passkeys in one go (just reinstall the OS, loose the device etc)
Password managers are trying to supply independent service but its easy to see how they can (will?) be locked out by A, G, MS if, or when, they choose. By example Apple automatically creates device passkeys for access to Apple that the user has no access to. It is not stored not in keychain. You cannot store it in a password manager.
And these days, where the 'special people' like to BAN things, I can see an activist corporation happy to say nobody can access company X with the passkeys we hold.
🎯 Exactly . TBF its much more profitable for the business to lock you in, but from the consumer side you get restriction in your freedom. If this continues we will end up in an oligopoly where you have to pick your poison or sometimes face being "canceled". And I choose not to let that happen.
On the other side, being locked in a suite is much more convenient as everything is integrated together very well and you don't have to jump around services to get things working. Its really up to the consumer to choose what is best for him.
I am starting to not like these passkeys, at least for the consumer. Passwords are much more flexible, and while they will tell you you can get "hacked" somehow all my accounts online nearly never been hacked. Passwords work just fine as long as you use different password to each account and longer passwords. That with 2FA and you are pretty much secured.
I am still not sure if the passkeys are transferable or not. If they are then its extra security, but if they are not then its going to be troublesome.
Until passkeys are portable, I won't use them. I suspect there would have to be a cross-platform third-party that handles transferring passkeys between Apple, Windows, and other passkey repositories. I would need redundancy for storage and not just count on one implementation.
At this point, if some web service required me to use passkeys, then I'd choose 1Password for storing them. It would be cross platform and likely more trouble free. They are serious players in the passkey world. https://passage.1password.com/product/passkeys is a developer-focused website that shows their depth in the technology.
At this point, if some web service required me to use passkeys, then I'd choose 1Password for storing them. It would be cross platform and likely more trouble free. They are serious players in the passkey world. https://passage.1password.com/product/passkeys is a developer-focused website that shows their depth in the technology.
They are, you could e.g. use KeePassXC or Bitwarden to store passkeys.
I do see the advantages of passkeys but I do also see the advantages of simple passwords (you can backup it on paper and you can just type it into a password dialoge on any device you want), so I am not really convinced.
As I always use secure passwords with 2FA when available and do not share passwords between sites I am not that concerned about password security.
The most important account is probably your mail account, as a lot of sites over resetting the password via mail and I do not see how I could secure that with passkeys, otherwise I probably would and print out a hey dump of the passkey for backup.
Can the programs you mention transfer passkeys into and out of Apple's, Microsoft's repositories? Can those two programs transfer passkeys between each other?
I use 2FA just with my email, this way I can always reset any stolen account just in case and my email needs 2FA (sms) to get to it.
My problem is I do not understand how 2FA authenticator apps work. Ex, MS Office tells me the code has been sent to my Microsoft authenticator app. Its there, but if I delete the app or i am using a different device, how this works? How does the authenticator app authenticates me?
I can't speak to other authenticators, but Microsoft's one allows backups to iCloud as well as your Microsoft account. So, I've read that if I were to install the authenticator on a new device, all the setup keys would be available. I haven't tested this.
I learned the hard way that Google's app has backups, and it does work. I've never had to test test the backup feature on Microsoft's, but I do hav it backing up. Obviously YMMV...